Why are Ohio Congresspeople in the Ukraine?

[JoMama49]

Notes from Ground Zero

But What About Ohio?
by Gary Polvinale
Sandusky, Ohio
12/20/2004

I called my US Representative from Ohio, Marcy Kaptur's office Fri morning. I waited till today to send this out, hoping for a reply from Kaptur's office. None. Their story Friday went like this. She's out of the country, they said. I told them I knew this, and told them I read she was in Ukraine. They didn't know why she had gone to Ukraine. I let the staffer know in no uncertain terms that Rep Kaptur was elected to represent me and Ohio and that's what I expect from her. And the very least she can do is come to the hearings and listen - if she can go all the way to the Ukraine. And how convenient for her - she is out of the country during this critical period in Ohio. I have done everything I can to get her to step up for her Ohio constituants. Still, from the included email below, you can see all that she is doing - zippo.

Her assistant tried the old sob story on me -- her mother was Ukrainian and she belonged to some Ukranian support group and maybe she was over there for that. Bull - her own people don't know where she is and why? Read it from her own website wwwc.house.gov/kaptur/PressRelease.aspx?NewsID=1328. All these congresspeople are going over there to play along with Bush and at the same time avoid having to acknowledge any of the mess in Ohio. How convenient - you couldn't find one complete spinal column between all of them.

I worked for her election in 2004 at various events, and in July I held a "Time To Take America Back - Re-defeat Bush" rally, and she was my primary speaker. I said to her assistant, see that she gets this message... "If she does not come out and support me and CASE Ohio and the people of Ohio in this recount now that it's her turn to step up, the next time an election rolls around I will be doing rallies to prevent Marcy Kaptur from being elected again."

I'm including her contact info here. Feel free to drop her a line or call her and express your feelings on her turning her back on Ohio to run off to the Ukraine for a photo op. Ask her to decide who is more important - her constituants in Ohio or Ukraine. Tell her to get on the next plane back to Ohio and do her job. Feel free to forward this. She needs to hear how America feels about a representative of the American people choosing to represent the Ukrainian people over her constituants in Ohio. It's bad enough for the rest of these Congresspeople to be doing this, but this is her state at the epicenter of this fraudulent election. We elected her to represent us. No more "Why golly, I sure didn't know anything was going on here." She's either pretty dumb or part of the problem. Make her part of the solution.

Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur - Representing Ohio's 9th District (Northwest Ohio)
419-259-7500
[e-mail]
wwwc.house.gov/kaptur/PressRelease.aspx?NewsID=1328

It's crunch time, America. Don't spare the volume. Our January 6 Electoral Vote Certification deadline is fast approaching. Thanks for the support! We can hear you in Ohio.

Gary Polvinale
Sandusky, Ohio
[e-mail]
www.madogmusic.com

[LisaM]

1. She's turning her back on the whole country

Frankly, I don't know what to make of Ohio. I had a friend who moved there and she's gradually turned into a pod person. She doesn't seem to care about the election fraud AT ALL. And I met her through politics. Now she talks about her daughter's dance lessons and season's pass to King's Island, but you can't get one squeak out of her about politics.

[Blue_In_AK]

4. I'm SO glad I moved out of Ohio in 1955!! n/t

[goclark]

2. My comments were sent

[understandinglife]

3. My email to Congresswoman Kaptur; cc to Gary Polvinale and others

From: xxxxx
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 5:27 PM
To: '[e-mail]'
Cc: '[e-mail]'; '[e-mail]'; '[e-mail]'; '[e-mail]'; '[e-mail]'

Subject: What are you doing in the Ukraine; when America is burning?
Importance: High


Dear Congresswoman Kaptur,

Beyond irony, beyond any respect for the citizens you represent in Ohio, you are awol from where you belong. I read an email from one of your strong supporters, Mr Gary Polvinale, and was astonished and saddened by your lack of leadership; your lack of solidarity with those whom you represent in Ohio:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x181823

We are witnessing, daily, the steady documentation, in Ohio, and throughout the Nation of extensive, pre-meditated, systematic disenfranchisement.

Respectfully, Congresswoman Kaptur, you should be standing with the disenfranchised citizens of Ohio, every day, gathering all the facts, organizing and fighting to save the franchise.

Today and everyday between now and 6 Jan 2005, you should be speaking with every member of the 109th US Congress -- Senate and HR -- gathering their support for a challenge to the national election on 6 Jan 2005 and the subsequent extensive investigation of what has happened.

You must be standing with Congressman Conyers and others on 6 Jan 2005 demanding a halt to the national election of 2004.

We have no election, Congresswoman Kaptur.

Our American franchise of Democracy is under attack.

That attack is readily detected in numerous areas in Ohio and throughout the Nation.

You should be on the very next flight and, upon arrival in Ohio, you should call a press conference and apologize for deserting those you serve at the most critical time in the history of our democracy.

Thank you for your immediate attention to the crisis confronting America.
xxxxxxxxx

[understandinglife]

21. Response from Gary Polvinale to my letter to Congresswoman Kaptur

Please note the names of other members of Congress touring the Ukraine with Congresswoman Kaptur. You may want to write letters to them as well.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Correspondence with Gary Polivnale:


Sure, but please replace my email address with this [e-mail]. It's much easier for me to manage the responses. Thanks for your work! -Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: xxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 9:38 AM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: What are you doing in the Ukraine; when America is burning?


Happy to help any way I can. Would you like me to post your email response to my letter on DU? I had posted the letter, already, and I think if I post your response we can get even more folk writing letters. As well, I'm cc'ing Brad Friedman. Thank you for all you are doing to try to save our franchise of democracy.



---------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Gary Polvinale [e-mail]
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 6:07 AM
To: xxxxx
Subject: RE: What are you doing in the Ukraine; when America is burning?


xxxxxxxx,

Thanks for taking the time to email Kaptur. Sorry for the short response, but I'm pressed for time like you wouldn't believe. I am getting similar responses from people all over the US. If you know anyone else who would do the same, please ask them to do so. Others in her group in Ukraine include Roscoe G. Bartlett, R-Md., Adam B. Schiff, D-Calif., Maurice D. Hinchey, D-N.Y., and Darrell Issa, R-Calif.

In Ohio, we already have the machinery in place to break open this heinous fraud perpetrated on the American people in every state on Nov 2 - recount, lawsuits, demonstrations, hearings, forums, amassing tons of proof of widespread fraud and intimidation and suppression. What we need is for everyone to know - and this won't happen until the media covers it - and this won't happen if the very people who represent us don't even acknowledge what's going on right here in their own territory.

Thanks for what you're doing. Actions like yours, by people all across the US, are what will make our case be heard finally - the election was no election. Keep the faith. We will do this.

Gary

[Bullshot]

5. Based on my experience with Rep. Kaptur,

she is likely in the Ukraine to talk to people first-hand about the election debacle they just had--as opposed to the sanitized spin you regularly see on U.S. media-- and apply the information to here in the U.S. if possible.

During the NAFTA debate, she organized trips to Mexico on her own because the corporate-sponsored "fact-finding" tours she was offered only wined and dined the congressmen at resorts and showed them "cleaned up" factories. Instead, she talked to real, dirt-poor factory workers in their dirt-floor homes who feared for their jobs, if not their lives, for meeting with a US congresswoman. While her group was walking along a stream which was an open sewer for factory discharges, a crazed chicken that apparently ingested that polluted water ran in front of her, scarfed up blood and keeled over and died.

You don't find that kind of stuff out by riding on the corporate tours.

Be thankful you have Kaptur instead of fat-boy Paul Gillmor, whose idea of hard work is making two trips through the buffet line.

[Griffy]

9. Maybe she can get them to say there was fraud here! nt

[IndyPriest]

12. Now, THAT'D be sweet! n/t

[burn the bush]

6. I told her if she didn't get her ass back to Ohio for the Election Fraud

and fight for democracy here at home, then she could just sign on to run in the Ukraine for her next stint in politics as we won't want her here.

[Blackie05]

7. If she's in the Ukraine rather than with her family...

...is it possible that she's researching what the election fraud is in the Ukraine and applies the lessons here?

Especially because the "orange people" in the Ukraine are not necessarily "the good guys" - they're being agitated by the CIA and other pro-US forces to encourage their candidate to win, who would lead the Ukraine out of Russia's orbit?

I can't imagine why else she would go to the Ukraine. I don't know her - I live in California - but it sure doesn't sound like a junket.

Of course, I would keep the pressure on her about January 6 and making a strong statement to stop the Electoral College in its tracks.

[newyawker99]

28. Hi Blackie05!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[bush_is_wacko]

8. Glad to help!

I'm not from Ohio but my email explains why I think she should be here.


Dear Representative Kaptur,

What are you doing in the Ukraine? I don't live in Ohio, so you are not my representative but, quite frankly, I would think at this critical juncture in AMERICAN history, you should be honored to represent the ENTIRE AMERICAN population in the battle of the century to make sure EVERY AMERICAN VOTE COUNTS and EVERY AMERICAN VOTER is assured of your representation in their right to file suit against those that perpetrated this years disgraceful criminal behavior to STEAL OUR ELECTION! I hope all your constituents remember your participation in this years election fraud scandal. I know I will make sure I remind them as often as possible over the next few years, so they never forget their duty to vote "representatives" like yourself out of office when your term is up.

On Edit: If she is in the Ukraine to help with our election fraud, I would think she will do her best to get back as soon as possible to get things straightened out. We all know the election fraud there is likely peretrated by the same people as the fraud in our own country. Hopefully, she will forgive me, if she is on a fact finding mission.

[Oversea Visitor]

10. RE: All the way from south east asia

I can see a storm coming, Jan 6, Now its just the calm before the storm. Come Jan 6 I think your elected representatives will come out with their gun blasting. Will they succeed? This depend on how much ammo they have. To me they need to build their case they need to built it well. No point running off half cock now. Jan 6 is D day either you guys make a different or you dont.

Look at your opponent, they control the administration, its going to be uphill. What have they got at stake. They in a corner, they cant afford to lose. They will fight with everything they got.

Why am I here posting? Cause like all people in this world we want peace. When there is war. We turn into soldiers killing each others or we are civilian casualties, we lose our home, our loves one, our wealth, our future.... and all because some leaders want to be more powerful, richer or whatever. I dont like what Bush and co represent. History we must learn from history or it will repeat itself. What is at stake for us people? I have a stake in this fight, its about sanity versuses the madness of hate and war.

[RevCheesehead]

11. Hi, Oversea Visitor! Welcome to DU!

:hi:

I appreciate your comments very much. Yes, I think it will be an uphill battle, but not an impossible one.

You're right about Bush being in a corner, and I agree that he will fight with everything he has. I just wish that we would rally around our own people, rather than finding fault with every perceived action or inaction.

[txindy]

14. You make a lot of very good points

I also believe you're quite right about the storm on Jan. 6th. It's going to be amazing to watch. Don't give up on us, yet. We're not done fighting. We won this election and we're not going to just hand it to this administration.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[ebayfool]

16. Welcome, Oversea Visitor!

You're right, you do have a stake in this fight. Thank you for stepping in the fray with us.

[CoffeeCat]

13. Is there more than one Ohio Congressperson in the Ukraine?

Is Marcy Kaptur the only Ohio Congressperson in the Ukraine?

If many of them are there, I would guess that there is more going on that meets the eye. Certainly, more than a photo opportunity.

Obviously, this is just a hunch--but govt officials who are at the epicenter of US election fraud--are visiting a country that is in the throes of unraveling their own election fraud? I'm guessing this was a fact-finding, investigative mission--and that Kaptur is working on the election-fraud issue.

After all, there are similarities with the US/Ukraine election fraud stories. In both cases, the exit polls signaled that fraud had occurred.

Maybe both frauds were pulled off using similar tactics, and Kaptur is info gathering?

[txindy]

15. That is my feeling on it, too

I'm in Texas, so I don't know Kaptur or have any info. about what she may be doing there, but my take on it is the same as yours. This can't be a coincidence. Not at this time under these circumstances.

Now, I really can't wait for January 6th!

[Oversea Visitor]

17. RE: In 1864 A wise man say

" I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country ...... Corporations have been enthroned and an era of high corruption will follow and the money power of the country will endeavour to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed..."

The wise man mentioned here is
President Abraham Lincoln... The above is taken from his letter to Colonel William Elkins in reference to the increasing interference of Corporations in the political life of the USA.

[merh]

22. Welcome to DU, Oversea Visitor!

Thank you for your involvement. At the risk of sounding melodramatic, there is so much at stake here for the world we all need to be concerned, every citizen on this planet. Your input is appreciated and you are welcomed with open arms and DU hug :grouphug:

Damn glad to greet ya! :hi:

[txindy]

24. I like that quote from Lincoln

"Corporations have been enthroned and an era of high corruption will follow" is the part I have on a shirt, along with Lincoln's picture. I've had quite a few people ask me about it, too. Whatever gets their attention.

[SharonRB]

27. Wow -- what a great quote! n/t

[eowyn_of_rohan]

18. Members of the "Congressional Delegation" to the Ukraine

From www.usembassy.kiev.ua/press/041217_congress_eng.html
December 17, 2004
U.S. CONGRESSIONAL DELEGATION TO VISIT KIEV AND LVIV
A bi-partisan delegation of United States Congressional Representatives led by Congressman Dana Rohrabacher (R – California) will visit Ukraine Dec. 18-21. Other members of the delegation are Representatives Marcy Kaptur (D- Ohio), Roscoe G. Bartlett (R-Maryland), Adam B. Schiff (D-California), Maurice D. Hinchey (D-New York), and Darrell Issa (R-California).
The delegation will meet with senior Ukrainian officials and other leading members of Ukrainian political life in Kiev and Lviv to discuss U.S.–Ukrainian relations and current affairs in Ukraine. Members of the delegation are particularly interested in assessing the situation leading up to the scheduled December 26 presidential election rerun.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

19. OMG! More on this delegation, led by REPUB Rohrabacher of CA

Congressmen Rohrabacher and Berman Introduce Ukraine Elections Bill
Washington, Oct 7 - FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
7 October 04
CONTACT: 202-225-2415

(Washington, D.C.) Reps. Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA) and Howard Berman (D-CA), both senior members of the House International Relations committee, today introduced H.R.5247, which will deny visas to Ukrainian government officials if the October 31 Ukrainian presidential election is not free and fair.

H.R. 5247, is engineered to punish individuals complicit in hijacking Ukraine's electoral system and manipulating the outcome of this year's presidential election. This legislation is a bipartisan iteration of H.R. 5102, and has broader support in Congress than the earlier version.

"If the outcome of the Ukrainian election is tainted by thuggery, the future of democracy in that country and the Ukraine's relationships with other democratic countries will be endangered. I am pleased that my Democratic colleagues in Congress have joined me to make it clear that the United States will accept nothing less than a free and fair election in the Ukraine," Rep. Rohrabacher said.

At the moment, there is every indication the election will not be fair and free and that government resources are being positioned to control election results - - to take away the choice of Ukraine's people.

To date, the United States government has called for a free and fair election, and the protection of citizen's rights in the Ukraine. The European Union has also called upon Ukraine to assure a free and fair election. Unfortunately, this has not entirely deterred those who are attempting to sabotage this election.

Whether it is a comprehensive denial of access to the national media, intimidation of citizens, candidates and campaigns, harassment of citizen expressions of political views, illegal use of government resources to promote the candidacy of the Prime Minister, or the illegal actions to control local voting commissions, it is clear that the legitimacy of this election will be undermined.

H.R. 5247 sends the message that the United States will not countenance election fraud, and will not tolerate those responsible for depriving the people of the Ukraine of their sacred and hard-won franchise.

rohrabacher.house.gov/News/ DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=6103

[eowyn_of_rohan]

20. This is obscene.....

US Congressman Rohrabacher warns: Ukrainian officials thwarting the democratic process will pay a price personally!
Luba Shara, Washington DC, UP , 11.10.2004, 23:40 www2.pravda.com.ua/en/archive/2004/october/8/1.shtml
When on September 18 “Ukrayinska Pravda” and "Dzerkalo Tyzhnia" (Weekly Mirror) reported on Bill HR 5102 IH Constantine Menges Ukraine Democracy and Fair Elections Act of 2004 being introduced at the US House of Representatives, many Ukrainian pro-government politicians sneered at it with a great deal of skepticism.

This document dwells not upon a theoretical significance of free and fair elections in Ukraine, but rather introduces a set of actual sanctions against actual individuals within the Ukrainian leadership if they encroach upon those principles.

"It appears as some kind of fiction", said Mykhailo Pohrebynsky, advisor to Kuchma’s Chief of Staff in his interview to Radio Liberty.

"Somebody has doodled something, and we are supposed to comment on that nonsense? Well, a publication in Ukrayinska Pravda cannot be a reason enough for me to comment ", added Pohrebynsky.

Here is what Pohrebynsky said about the Bill’s author, US Congressman Dana Rohrabacher: "So give me something more serious, than just a monkey business of some parliamentarian. You know, we have plenty of fools here. I think there are as many of them over there."

Despite such sarcastic statements by Mr. Pohrebynsky, Bill HR 5102 is neither a fiction nor a monkey business, but a scary reality for himself and other individuals close to the Ukrainian leadership.

(From US Congressman Dana Rohrabacher 's interview to Ukrayinska Pravda)
UP. What were your reasons to introduce Bill 5102, Ukraine Democracy and Fair Elections Act of 2004?

DR. This Bill sets down a marker not only for the powers in Ukraine but also for people of the United States, for the United States government. We are coming to the end of our session now and we want to make sure this Bill was proposed so that if the Ukrainian elections are subverted by fraud or dishonesty, we would then be able to know what we need to do to retaliate if that happens.

UP. The Bill has tough questions specifically regarding Ukrainian politicians who have property in the United States. Do you think it is real to deny visas to such politicians?

DR. We want to have a very harsh alternative to those in Ukraine who might be tempted to stay in power by undermining the free elections. And, if someone in Ukraine, a government official, does something that might officially let them stay in power, by doing so they are thwarting the will of people, by fraud or some sort of intimidation or restriction of the process itself, we want those officials to know they will not benefit personally. There will be a price to pay personally for Ukrainian officials who thwart the democratic process.

UP. Does the United State Government have a list of those people how have property or assets in the United States or what would be the source of such information?

DR. Oh, we will track them down.

UP. Many people in power in Ukraine do not believe you were serious introducing this Bill. Many of them believe it was just a joke, that it wasn’t serious.

DR. Well, we will find out who is laughing if they are just trying to thwart the democratic process and are called to task afterwards by our government.

[merh]

23. Maybe there is method to their madness!

I willing to bet there is.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

26. Considering the leader is a Repub, and the ambassador is a

Bush appointee, the only method and madness I can see is the obvious. I'd be glad to be proven wrong, though.

[wpbpete78]

25. There's oil there

thats one reason