John Fund on election in WA State, WSJ Editorial 12/20/04

[rumpel]

These are the last 2 paragraphs:

If leaders of both parties could agree that the November election has been hopelessly compromised, public pressure for a clarifying rematch would build. It would be highly irregular, but so too is the fact that whoever wins the third count of votes would govern under a cloud in which their legitimacy would be questioned. Let's hope the public will also demand a thorough housecleaning of Washington state's election laws, which imprudently allow 65% of its voters to cast troublesome absentee ballots.

Washington state's predicament is also a warning flare for the rest of the country about how sloppy our election procedures still are. In most states we are just as unable to handle a photo-finish election as we were when the Bush v. Gore legal fight occurred in 2000; It's time to redouble our efforts to make our elections something the rest of the world can't snicker at.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110006051

[PROGRESSIVE1]

1. WIFE BEATER John Fund suddenly has a problem with the votes.........

now that it's a Rethuglinazi who's going to loose.

Remember, the only fraud that exists is the fraud that the Rethugs make so.

The Rethugs don't want to count all the ballots!

:nopity:

[mimitabby]

2. why are absentee votes imprudent?

too good of a papertrail?

[rumpel]

3. Sounded to me that reality is setting in...the World is questioning.

[Mike Niendorff]

4. This is a really interesting turn of events.

Now that Rossi's "election" hinges on suing to keep legal ballots from being counted, the RW machine is suddenly sounding a lot less confident that they can sell us on the idea of Rossi's inevitability and legitimacy. So, time for Plan B, it appears.


MDN

[DELUSIONAL]

5. "troublesome absentee ballots" -- well FUCK John Fund!

Voting Absentee is one way we can vote using a paper ballot -- and leave a paper trail -- paper ballots can be counted by hand.

Amazing that when Absentee ballots benefit GOPigs -- then these are find with the GOPigs. But now that the Absentee ballots might mean that every vote must be counted -- well now they are "troublesome".

Have I mentioned lately how much I hate these guys? (Mike Malloy time coming up.)

[baby_bear]

6. This article isn't even factually correct.

This part is correct:
<snip>
The result probably hinges on whether 723 King County absentee ballots that were rejected during the first two vote counts will be counted after all. A local judge has ruled that it is too late to inject the 723 ballots into the recount and that if they were valid votes they should have been counted in the first or second recounts. Democrats respond that the fault lies with King County clerks, who failed to take extra steps to verify the ballots, and not with the voters.
</snip>

It then goes on later to incorrectly state the following:
<snip>
A local judge allowed Democratic Party officials to obtain the names and addresses of 723 people who had cast provisional ballots but were in danger of not being counted because of mismatching or missing signatures. Democratic officials then contacted voters and asked them who they had voted for in the race for governor. If the answer was Ms. Gregoire, the voter was allowed to correct his or her signature and thus have their ballot counted. Republicans belatedly began contacting their voters. The result was a net gain of some 400 votes for Ms. Gregoire. Mr. Rossi's lead fell to 261 votes.
</snip>

That last paragraph is pure fabrication. First, do you really believe the number of absentee ballots not counted equalled the numbre of provisional votes not counted? They are distinct votes, not the same at all. This guy doesn't understand the difference. Second, Democrats went out to try to help people verify signatures in order to make sure that legitimate votes could be counted, regardless of who the vote was cast for, but this was stopped by the State Supreme Court. Those votes won't be counted. Now all that remains is the recount of the originally counted ballots and - still at issue - the absentee ballots that were mistakenly set aside and not counted by the election workers, because the county had not provided scanned copies of those people's signatures from their registration records. They should have looked for paper copies, not set the ballots aside and never gone back to them.

But of course everyone is going to read this jerk and assume he knows what he is talking about.

b_b

[Mike Niendorff]

9. re: "This guy doesn't understand the difference."

Of course he does. The man may be dishonest, but that's doesn't mean he's stupid enough not to realize what he's doing.

The real problem here is that "conservatives" have, in recent years, continually crossed over from mere defensive argument into outright lies and authoritarian-style propaganda. People like John Fund are not journalists, if they ever were. They are propagandists for a movement, and they know it. They are the "Baghdad Bob" of the Republican Party. They are the daily announcers for the Ministry of Truth. To treat them as though they're only lying because they "just don't understand" is to give them credit for integrity that they simply do not possess. They know full well what they're doing.


MDN

[baby_bear]

11. Yes and no

I think if he really did understand the nuances at play in this particular county vote, he wouldn't have cited 273 ballots as being both absentee and provisional, in separate paragraphs.

My point was that he was sloppy with his homework. Other than that, I don't disagree with you at all. Even if he had done his homework, the piece no doubt would not have been evenhanded by any means.

He was out for blood, facts be damned.

Still, he should have gotten his facts straight....this way, he makes it SO easy to disregard him.

Of course, the readers of his piece will be just as ignorant and biased, for the most part. There are even Republicans here in Seattle who are buying into the "stolen election" crap when those ballots have never even been opened, so no one knows what they contain.

b_b

[Mike Niendorff]

12. fair enough, didn't intend it as criticism of you.

I just see a lot of this among progressives, so I thought I'd take the opportunity to mouth off on a pet peeve :)

Because we try to be honest and evenhanded (even to a fault), we tend to project those values onto others, too. So when they fail to live up to them, we tend to assume that they must have simply tried but failed, rather than questioning whether the values we attribute to them are, in fact, their real values. I think it's almost an unconscious thing, in fact. So I thought I'd just draw some attention to it and see where things went. I hope my comments didn't come across as hostile or anything, because that really wasn't how I meant them. There are just so many dynamics in play on these things that sometimes I just feel the need to pick one and run with it :)

Speaking of Republicans up here in Seattle, too, I'd actually extend the thought to them, as well, using the "propaganda" model for their communications. I think it's not so much what they actually believe as it is what "ammunition" they get from party propaganda sources. Rush tells them A, therefore they repeat A. Chris Vance says "stolen election", therefore they repeat "stolen election". It isn't really about belief or dialogue, it's about defeating a perceived enemy, using talking points and canned rhetoric as ammunition. I'm probably not even articulating it very well, but there's a mindset I'm trying to get at here, and the whole war/propaganda mentality is really at the core of it.


MDN

[baby_bear]

16. No offense taken, MDN

And I don't disagree with your take on our collective naivete, at times. I certainly find myself wondering why or how people can be as mean-spirited so as to distort the truth to an unknowing public (e.g., the readers of the WSJ article, most of whom have no idea what's going on here in King County of course - how could they, and how could they know this jerk is making up a scenario that has minimal relationship to the truth?)

I just posted another link to a guest column that will be printed in tomorrow's P-I. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=182571&mesg_id=182571

Much better. I already sent it to two Republican friends who believe all the Vance crap. This morning, one of them sent me the letter from Vance from last week challenging the provisional ballots, I suppose not realizing (duh) that the State Supreme Court had already moved us past that point, and now the issue is the absentee ballots, not the provisionals. What can you do when your enemy is ignorant?

cheers,
b_b

[loudsue]

17. "AMEN!!" to that, Mike! These are big boys. They KNOW the difference

between lies and truth. This ain't their first rodeo.

:kick:

[CoffeeCat]

7. I don't see this article (or Fund) as an asset to real voter fraud...

What a bunch of assjacks.

What's apparent here--is that the Republicans are realizing they've got a problem. Voter fraud will definitely become a critical issue--real soon. Problems are coming from multiple angles: Ohio, Washington, FL, NM and others.

John Fund (Mr. Republican himself) is attempting to define what voter fraud is, by blaming absentee ballots.

Republicans are masterfully skilled at these types of dirty tricks. They are experts at re-defining the argument, then turning the issue into a PR nightmare for the other side--and themselves into knights in shining armor.

These bastards--are recognizing the PR nightmare they have on their hands with Ohio and Washington--and they're throwing up absentee ballots as a red herring argument, "If we could only stifle those sloppy absentee ballots, voting would be clean and fair." Can't you just hear it?

Oh please. I don't want to watch these satanic-spawn jerks define the election-fraud issue in attempt to hide their crimes and blame this all on the Dems. We saw them do this with Kerry. They took a decorated war hero and convinced many that he was a traitor--while their AWOL opponent was positioned as a great patriot.

This is just revolting, although typical. We can't let them do this.

Make no mistake, this article was the result of a multi-pronged approach to control the election-fraud topic and blame every election-fraud incident on the Dems--while detracting the public from the real crimes.

I'm not surprised that Conyers' recent remarks--indicating that many senators may oppose the election results--coincide with this John Fund nonsense.

The Republican PR campaign has been launched.

[peacetalksforall]

8. And snicker they do...we have become laughable and pathetic. First

thing coming from him that I've ever approved of.

[Vinnie From Indy]

10. Fund is Merely a Paid Mouthpiece

He is, as an earlier poster put it, a bona fide member of the "Ministry of Truth". I agree that ANYTHING coming from Fund is part of a plan designed to frame, define or control the debate. The current avalanche of misinformation, distraction and deception being disseminated by the MSM is an awesome thing to behold and Fund is part of it all.

[eridani]

13. Paul Berendt wants us to write letters

There’s no other way to say it: Dino Rossi is a thief. Rossi went to court in a last ditch effort to stop legitimate ballots from being counted.

He knows that once these votes are counted, it will be clear that he didn’t win the last count and hasn’t won this one.

Rossi knows that he is nothing more than the accidental governor-elect. His earlier lead was an error. And now he wants a court to make him Governor-by-mistake.

You see, hundreds of ballots were ignored in King County. Why? Simple: it was a mistake. When the government messes up your tax returns, you expect them to fix it. This is no different.

But just as the mistake was on the brink of being fixed, Rossi rushed to court and demanded that it be stopped. It’s an example of HypocRossi.

For weeks, Rossi said “I trust the voters, not lawyers.” Then the count turned against him and he rushed into court to throw out valid votes. For weeks, Rossi said “Don’t change the rules.” But when following the rules meant Rossi would lose, they tried to throw out the rules.

For weeks, Rossi said we should accept the outcome of the election. Now he’s saying “Let’s have a do-over.”

The Democrats didn’t scream fraud when counties across the state found hundreds of new ballots that helped Dino Rossi. So why are the Republicans screaming fraud now that Rossi is on the brink of losing?

Our party is standing up for America’s basic, sacred principle that every legitimate vote should count. Dino Rossi is trying to win by throwing votes away.

You can help us send a strong signal to Dino Rossi if you could take a minute and write a letter to the editor of your local paper. Tell them that it’s wrong to steal.

Forward this message on to your friends and family. We must work together to stop the Republicans from stealing this election. Thanks to your help and support, we’ve been able to match Dino Rossi measure for measure. Thank you again for all you have to done to protect our votes.

Sincerely,
Paul Berendt

Paid for by the Washington State Democratic Party
Paul Berendt, Chair
PO Box 4027, Seattle, WA 98104
616 1st Ave., Suite 300, Seattle, WA 98104
http://www.wa-democrats.org/

[jdog]

14. Kick! Woo - hoo!

GO Paul!

[rumpel]

15. and to John Fund