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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:52 PM
Original message
Tom Tancredo's response.
I wrote to Congressman Tancredo not too long ago about the election. I’ll give you the gist of his response.

He refers me to HAVA which was instituted after the “widespread problems that occurred in the November 2002 election,” and informs me a bit about the Election Assistance Commission and the fact that election administration is performed locally and at a state level, not federal.

Specifically about this year’s election he says:

“As for the election that took place in November, I do not believe that sufficient evidence exists to suggest widespread voter intimidation or voter fraud. Unfortunately, in our system, there will always be discrepancies and errors due to user error. For this reason, I do not think that hearings are necessary to address the last election.”



I guess I did not make a good enough case to Mr. Tancredo. Anyone else care to try?


Here’s his email: tom.tancredo@mail.house.gov
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Tell him when he's up for reelection next time, he may the next victim.
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JoMama49 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. Senator DIane Feinstein
basically said the same thing in the form letter I received in reply to my letter of concern. They're all focusing on 2008 and don't think this is a hill we should be dying on!
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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. How well informed do you think they really are??? n/t
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k8conant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. Where's he from?
not West Virginia, I know.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
5. What state are you in? n/t
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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-20-04 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I'm in Colorado and so is he. n/t
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Pam-Moby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. I sent many letters to Senators and Congressman
I have got a few mass generated responses that do not address the issues at all. Some have never responded.
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
7. Here's my response from Ensign
of which I knew ahead of time what he would say...but it was still worth the effort, I guess.

"Thank you for contacting me regarding the federal government's review
of
election procedures. I appreciate the opportunity to hear your
concerns.

In the past, the General Accountability Office has conducted a range of
federal elections-related work involving voting procedures and
technologies. In addition, when Congress passed the Help America Vote
Act
(HAVA) in 2002, it created the Election Assistance Commission (EAC) to
review systemic election issues such as voter registration, provisional
voting, and voting technologies. The EAC publishes "best practices"
for
states to follow as they administer elections. Elections are a matter
largely reserved to, and regulated by, the states. Most of the issues
relating to the recent elections are the responsibility of state and
local
jurisdictions since they involve the execution of state law.

Nevada leads the nation in election technology. We are the only state
utilizing electronic voting machines that produce a paper trail
allowing
voters to verify that their vote was accurately recorded. I am pleased
to
inform you that, in a recent audit by Nevada's Secretary of State,
there
was 100% consistency between the electronic and paper voting records of
64,000 ballots cast in the 2004 general election. Nevada is the only
state that had this advantage, and we need to help the rest of the
country
catch up to us. Accordingly, I have introduced legislation in the
Senate
known as the Voter Integrity Verification Act (VIVA) (S. 2347). VIVA
would clarify provisions of HAVA by requiring that any new voting
machines
purchased by states with federal funds include paper trail technology.
Please be assured that I will continue to monitor this important issue.

Again, thank you for contacting me on this issue. Please do not
hesitate
to contact me again about this or any issue of importance to you.

Sincerely,



JOHN ENSIGN
United States Senator

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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
8. The sad thing, I think, is
that most of these pols are so accustomed to the existence of election fraud that they are actually blase about it whereas those of us who were made keenly aware of it only a few years ago are outraged.

I guess we need to keep pestering them to clue them in that - yes - this IS a big deal and we are not going to allow our elections to be stolen by thugs whilst our so-called leaders tolerate it. You know, because it's too haaaard to fight it and gee whiz let's concentrate on the next one - maybe they'll be nice and won't steal it. Yeah right.
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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Agreed, we need to keep at it.
Ya know, I was looking at these responses, and thinking about what John Conyers said in Farenheit 911 about them not reading the bills, I just get the feeling that these people are not paying close enough attention. I don’t think they know what we know, and they need to. So it does make sense for us to keep at ‘em with emails and written correspondence. I mean, are they watching the same news as the rest of the U.S. - getting the same NO information?
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. I agree
In Ensign's response to me, he says don't hesitate to contact him again about this or anything else. Knowing what I know about him, he's not gonna change a thing about this election, but I should just keep bugging him and encouraging all my friends to do the same. I have some Republican friends and family (Kerry supporters). They've been writing him, too.
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Alizaryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
11. All we can do is try, hopefully numbers will matter.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
12. Well, in one respect, he's right.
Your local elections board administrator and your state secretary of state has a lot more to do with the running of the election than the fed level stuff does.

I think everything we're doing on this board is GREAT but I would be really happy if everyone on this board would ALSO put energy into their LOCAL board of elections. How many folks here know their county head of BOE, are members of their local League of Women Voters (they do good work!), etcetera?
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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Good point. I think that's really important Crispini.
At least in Colorado, the SOS opened her last meeting to the public and some of us attended. Personally I felt listened to there, and like I really would like to participate further for the future.

But, of course, unless this present election situation is resolved, it doesn't seem like there's much point working in that direction. I can't imagine anything really good would be allowed to happen.
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crispini Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Sure, you can try to pass a state-level anti BBV bill.
We've got one in the Texas Lege right now! :)
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IndyPriest Donating Member (685 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:16 AM
Response to Original message
13. I'd tell him he has an obligation to contest
the election on Jan.6, and refer him to this article (as he is plainly out of touch with what's going on):
http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/996
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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. I think I'll do that.
And you know, the more ALL of Congress gets educated, the easier it will be for those senators who decide to come forward. I'll include your link and any other good ones people throw this way. Thanks.
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
18. Well, at least you got a response.
I wrote them all new and old,state and federal. I got a response from Owens- totally lame. Here is the only relevant part.

"Like you, I want to protect the integrity of our elections in Colorado. When information surfaced this year about potential voter registration fraud, I urged the Attorney General and Secretary of State to work together to resolve this problem. At least four individuals have been charged with crimes related to election fraud"...

No mention of Federal election fraud issues.

I also got a response from Salazar, but I think I deleted the email. Can't seem to find it! Same non-response!
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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. I didn't get anything back from Salazar at all.
And I didn't get the feeling he and Kerry were on the same page during the election, did you?
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Oh no, that's not good
Maybe he feels Kerry didn't do a lot for the latino vote. don't know.
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #20
28. Nope! That's why I probably deleted the email!
So much has gone on since then I can't remember much about it. I tried to look for it a couple days ago and couldn't find it.
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:27 AM
Response to Original message
19. don't forget to realize
that if any of these senators or reps. do decide to join in contesting the election, it's not like they are going to jump out and say so in a random email. i honestly don't think any of them would come right out and firmly state they are going to do it before January 6th.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
21. Keep educating them. Here's a letter I wrote in response to a reply I got.
I just received your reply to the letter I sent you concerning the problems of voter suppression and fraud in the election of 2004. Your response convinces me that either you, like many other congresspeople, are woefully ignorant of the issues here or you are being willfully obtuse.

Fair and equal access to the vote is the bedrock of a representative society; without it, there is no democracy. That is why it is so vital that you understand today what has happened in Ohio and elsewhere in the nation in this "election", and join your colleagues in insisting on a full, thorough and independent investigation in order to produce an outcome that the nation can recognize as legitimate.

If you have been paying attention to the problems cited in this year's contest, you would notice there are three main categories: Methodical suppression of Democratic blocs through subtle or even outright voter intimidation from misdirection to outright threats; registration "mistakes"; and inadequate or unreliable voting systems.

As you are also certainly aware, Congressman John Conyers of the House Judiciary Committee has called for a GAO investigation and has conducted two hearings on this election, in D.C. and in Ohio. As a result he requested the involvement of the FBI and at least one Ohio county prosecutor. If this doesn't indicate that something went seriously wrong with this election, I don't know what it will take to convince you and others in Congress to act.

In your letter, you tell me of your co-sponsorship of a bill, which among other reforms, requires that all voting systems produce a voter-verified paper record for use in manual audits. It also bans the use of undisclosed software and wireless communications devices. I regret to state that this bill will not "solve" the problems we have experienced with this and other elections since 2000.

Members of congress, and those in particular who are co-sponsors of such "Voter Confidence" bills, need to quickly and thoroughly become educated about the true problems with our "voting system". You must all understand that you cannot fix this by simply insisting upon a "voter verified paper trail", nor by "eliminating wireless communications and undisclosed software".

Even with the demands of such legislation met, there can and will still occur tampering with either or both the precinct and central tabulators. And that tampering is not discoverable until or unless there is a "close vote", prompting a full audit. Further, the mechanisms of discovery (contest and recounting procedures) vary from state to state and in some states from precinct to precinct, so these are purely at the "whim" of partisan secretaries of state.

I suggest you read the information widely available on the Internet and consult with the acknowledged experts in voting technology to fully understand the problems here. One site that explains them quite clearly is written by a Republican "hacker", whose website address is: www.chuckherrin.com. To a person, the experts conclude: ELECTRONIC VOTING SYSTEMS ARE NOT SAFE AND CANNOT BE MADE TO BE SAFE.

Neither must you ignore the outright voter suppression that occurred in this election. Get-out-the-vote grassroots groups mobilized for this election with unprecedented zeal. In anticipation of the heavy turnout, multiple tactics were employed to deliberately suppress the vote in heavily democratic precincts, including inadequate machinery, outright intimidation and registration errors or omissions.

Likewise, in anticipation of such tactics, this year also saw unprecedented participation by grassroots organizations to witness, prevent and document voter suppression and irregularities. Tens of thousands of such occurrences have been documented. This documentation makes a strong case that this election established a dangerous new level of attempts to disenfranchise Democratic voters across the country.

Many of these grassroots groups are organizing through local chapters of national groups. Many have also joined ranks with civil rights movements whose primary concern has traditionally been voter suppression. These coalitions need ongoing support and interaction with their state's representatives at both local and national levels.

These groups have launched numerous events and actions in order to encourage and support our representatives in challenging the "outcome" on January 6, 2004. Their shared conviction is that Congress must forestall certifying the electoral college votes until we can complete a full, thorough and independent investigation of this election or make a decision not to recognize the votes of any state whose results remain in question.

I have asked you before and I am asking again, if you truly care about protecting the right to vote, please join your colleagues in helping us to stop this process before it is too late, so that we may have a complete and thorough investigation before declaring any "winners" and that the people's will WILL be served.

May I remind you that the "irregularities" in these elections since 2000 have consistently favored Republicans. Recent polls have shown that the "red shift" is not an accident, nor is it an indication of the country moving in a conservative direction. Rather, it is a deliberate and systematic manipulation of the vote by the Republican party in order to methodically eliminate the Democratic party altogether. And, regrettably, it is working.

By getting involved NOW, the seat you save next time may, in fact, be your own.

Thank you.

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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. I love it! Can I use this (with a few minor changes)?
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. Feel free to use it!
As is or edited, whatever you want!

Thanks!
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procinderella Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #21
29. Great letter
A little on the long side though. Edit it and post it again so more people can use it.

Really good stuff. Boil it down...let's keep the heat on.
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melwoods Donating Member (58 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #21
31. er,geez Carolab
May I plagiarize you also?- That's one swell letter you wrote. I angst and dither over every word- it'll be Jan 20 by the time I'm done composing letters to my Senators (Boxer and Feinstein).:)
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
22. he probably signed his response like Donald Scumsfeld, didn't he?
These criminals don't give a FLYING F*CK.

I hope he loses HIS seat due to fraud when his term is up.
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jdog Donating Member (569 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. Actually it looks like he signed it himself. n/t
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Kellis Donating Member (663 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
26. Keep in mind
That while these men and women are involved in politics-they are just human beings-just like the rest of us.They may not know/they may need to be convinced/shown the facts.

Keep emailing/informing them.

Keep pressuring them to look into and investigate election fraud.After all they work for US.Don't ever forget that.

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consciousobjector Donating Member (173 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
27. E-mail and call
your local and federal elected officials over and over...If you remember what happened when we were asked to send emails to Rep Conyers and the Democratic Reps...we totally clogged up their system. They had to devote staff to clearing the emails from the system. A little of that kind of inconvienience may get their attention even if they want to ignore it. Make them hire extra staff to handle the volume of complaints...turn up the volume! turn it way up!
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Kellis Donating Member (663 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
32. HA!Here is Saxby Chambliss' response to MY letter....
Saxby Chambliss is the opitomy of a Rethuglican SOuthern Good 'Ol Boy-twang and all.I mean - when you picture what a SOuthern Slave owner woulda looked like back in the day-THATS Saxby Chambliss.
Dumb Son of a Bitch motherfucker......

December 21, 2004

Dear -

Thank you for contacting me regarding the Ohio election.
It is good to hear from you.

The Kerry campaign has recently joined the presidential
candidates for the Green and Libertarian parties who are asking for
a recount of the 2004 Presidential Election. The political groups
felt there were many problems with the voting process in the state
on Election Day. Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell, the
state's chief election official, stated "This was an election where
you have some glitches, but none of these glitches were of a
conspiratorial nature and none of them would overturn or change
the election results." I support Kenneth Blackwell and his ability
to render a fair and proper decision.

Again, I appreciate hearing form you on this matter. If I
may be of assistance to you in the future, please do not hesitate to
let me know.

Sincerely,
Saxby Chambliss
United States Senate




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