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"No vote tampering seen in election computer fix " Cleveland Plain Dealer

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bones_7672 Donating Member (558 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:30 AM
Original message
"No vote tampering seen in election computer fix " Cleveland Plain Dealer
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1103632293221920.xml

"Logan, Ohio - Prosecutors and local police found no evidence of election tampering when they watched Monday as a technician repeated a repair to a tallying computer that led a congressman to request an FBI investigation.

Observers, including Green Party representatives who re quested a presidential recount, agreed that the procedure did not alter the hard drive where data are stored, Hocking County Prosecutor Larry Beal said."
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. and just HOW do we know he did exactly the same thing!?!?!?!?!
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. What a stupid investigation. Ask the repair man to repeat the step he
took the first time?
Do you really think that if he was going to do something to the hard drive that he would repeat it while being observed?
WTF
Notice, this is a story in the Plain Dealer, the same rag where the producer tried to force the editors to endorse shrub before 11/2.
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Karenca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
3. Ohio Election Agents View Computer Repair
Here's another article on this---What does this mean in regards to Rep Conyer's case?

<<<<LOGAN, Ohio (AP) - Election officials watched Monday as a technician repeated a repair he had made to a vote tallying computer, then announced they had found no evidence of any sort of tampering, despite a congressman's request for an FBI probe.

Observers, including a Green Party representative who had sought a presidential recount, agreed the procedure did not alter the Election Day vote total in the county, Hocking County Prosecutor Larry Beal said.

"Everybody felt better," he said.>>>>

ENTIRE ARTICLE----- http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/elections/article.adp?id=20041220232509990003&cid=946
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bones_7672 Donating Member (558 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
47. It probably gives Supreme Court Justice Moyers more ammo to
toss the Arnebeck suit.
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Darknyte7 Donating Member (687 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
4. Unbelievable!
This whole process in Ohio is a complete and utter farce!
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Chimpanzee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Take the murder suspect back to the scene to recreate the crime
that he swears he didn't do?????????????????????????
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
26. I thought a similar scenario. A bank is robbed...
A man is arrested for robbing the bank. He says he didn't do it. The police tell him that other people watched him walk into the bank when he wasn't suppose to be there, then ask him to recreate what he did. The man walks into the bank, uses the men's room, and walks out again. Oh, say the police, then we guess you really didn't do it...

End of story.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. FARCE!!!!!!
N/T
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
6. Hmmm...let me see
And the prosecutors and local police are experts in computer forensics? What is troubling, above and beyond this moronic headline, is that the prosecutors seem to be unaware of state election law that would preclude anyone from gaining access to the votes without representatives from both(all?) sides of the disputed election being present.
What do we have to do?:mad:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Why do you assume....
That only touch screen machines can be tampered with?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Actually this is the same BoE that was found unlocked on Dec. 11
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 09:38 AM by rosebud57
Recount volunteers saw lights go on and off, but did not have enough volunteers to watch all exits. The volunteers entered the unlocked building and saw the ballots in the basement.
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. The affidavit of Katrina Sumner
Katrina Sumner, having been duly sworn and cautioned, states and affirms as follows:

1. On Thursday, December 9, 2004 I sent Joan Quinn and Eve Robertson, (two volunteers I chose to work with me on the recount efforts) to the Greene County BOE to review public voter records that would reflect precincts that I had been investigating since November 3, 2004.

2. At 3:30pm on Friday, December 10, 2004, while completing their work, Joan contacted me and acknowledged that the information found during reviewing voter logs coincided with the information I gained from investigating, along with what I had suspected. Joan asked me what should be done at that time. I decided that all those voter files should be copied for each precinct, as allowed.

3. Joan asked the Director of the BOE about getting copies and the cost for all precincts. As I listened over the phone, the director said it would be a thousand dollars for the copies. I discussed it further with Joan and asked her to go ahead and request the copies then. We then ended the phone conversation.

4. Shortly after Joan called me again stating that the director called to the Secretary of State's office and spoke with Pat Wolfe, Adminstrator of Elections, and was told that all public voter records should be immediately locked down. Joan aked me what to do and I told her to stay there and I would makes some calls and see what could be done.

5. When I returned the call back to Joan she then told me that the County Prosecutor stated to the Director of the BOE that she was not to go against SOS Blackwell's office and that the recrds were to be removed from the volunteers. Joan stated to me that the director took one of the books out of the hands of Eve Robertson.

6. I then told Joan I would be on my there. When I arrived at the BOE Joan and Eve had left and the office was clsed. I then reached the two volunteers by phone and they returned, and we spent the evening dscussing the issues that happened.

7. We spent the evening discussing these ssues at the home where the two volunteers were staying. Once I left to go home, I decided to drive back by the BOE to see if everything would be ok there after what had happened earlier. When I drove by, the office was completely dark, the parking lot empty, and all looked fine.

8. The following morning we decided to meet in order to continue canvassing the precincts of Greene County. Joan and Eve arrived first at the BOE and called me at 10:15am stating the door to the BOE was unlocked. I was just around the corner and told then I'd be right there.

9. Upon arriving I noticed a single light on inside that was not on the night before, at 10:30pm. I asked the two if they had turned on the light and they said not.

10. We decided we would look in to see if anyone was inside and if everything was ok. Walking inside it appeared nobody was inside so we walked around calling out to anyone who could've been there. We had no replies.

11. We came out and spoke in front of the side door about what to do. It was suggested to me that we should also look downstairs where the ballots were in case someone was down there. This seemed reasonable to me since I was under the impression that some counties were beginning their recounts on that Saturday.

12. We then went in again and went down to the end of the hall, through a door, down steps, and into another door in the basement leading to the room where the ballot boxes were stored, ballots in open boxes, challenge letters, and the books that been taken from Joan and Eve the day prior were fully in the open view.

13. This concerned me since it appeared obvious to me with the light being turned on between 10:30pm and 10:15am that someone must have been inside during the night and had access to all of this.

14. We returned to our cards then and began making calls to people to see what to do about this situation and have the police called.

15. About thirty minutes later the police arrived and searched the building. They returned to the outside stating there was no forced entry and everything appeared untouched and intact. They called to a contractor to come and lock the door.

16. A truck appeared witht he name on the side of Shawnee Air & Heating. The man spoke with the police, did somethng to the door in order to make it lock, and then the police and contractor left.

17. Approximately fifteen minutes later the BOE director came with a couple others. At the same time two media presence came. They came along with us to speak to the director of the BOE. She stated that the door was accidentally left unlocked Friday when the employees and her self left at 4:30pm. She staed that nothing had been touched and everything inside was secure.

18. I asked her if anyone would have been able to get to the ballots and she stated no, sayign the door at the bottom of the stairs was locked. I asked her several tmes that question because we knew the door was unlocked when we were in there prior to anyone arriving.

19. She told us once again on camera that it was locked. She allowed us all to follow her downstairs and view the room. After that we left and she said she would be seeing me on Wednesday for the recount.

20. After this situation had happened I was requested by Cliff Arnebeck to find volunteers or people who would be paird to secure the building until further notice. I was told to have two volunteers at mst around the clock to make sure it remained secure.

21. I was unable to get anyone so late on a Saturday, but offered to stay myself. At around 11:00pm I was talking to Colby from the Cobb campaign when the upstairs lights (that were then on) went off and the downstairs lights went on, and then turned back again. I put Colby on hold and tried to see if there was anyone inside through the blinds however I couldn't see anyone.

22. Colby and I discussed whether it may be that the lights are on a timed trigger of sorts. I continued to watch to see if anyone would come out of the building, but did not see anyone. However, I couldn't watch both doors and a partially underground walkway going from the BOE to the building behind it.

23. Not much longer a sheriff came out and he said if I didn't see anyone then there was nothing one would do, waned to know precisely what I was doing there and who requested me to be there. I explained the situation to the Sheriff and he told me he had no idea of the situation of the building being unlocked preciously and that, after a call, his station knew nothing of it. The Greene County Sheriff then left.

24. About twenty minuters later the sheriff returned and asked for my driver's license, called it in, then gave it back shortly after. The sheriff had no idea of a recount, and was not aware that there was any contest to the election. I remained at the BOE until 10:30am Sunday until I was relieved by another to take a shift.

Sworn and subscribed to Cliff Arnebeck on the 12th day of December 2004.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
nashuaadvocate Donating Member (514 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:33 AM
Response to Reply #19
36. The Nashua Advocate has a different view...
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 11:33 AM by nashuaadvocate
...as what we've been highlighting in this whole Hocking County/Larry Beal fiasco is that *Sherole Eaton has already said Mr. Barbian from Triad told her how to defraud the recount*. Read her affidavit -- after installing a "patch" to the county computer program to "fix" a problem they didn't even know they had, he tells her (and Lisa Schwartze) how to enter a "code" to ensure that the hand- and machine-recount match. Did Beal ask him about this? What does Barbian say about *that*? It's pretty simple--

either Sherole Eaton is lying (and she's sworn an affidavit already) or Michael Barbian is.

Period.

The allegations of "tampering" which were based on what Barbian *did* in the tabulation room were always weaker evidence of election fraud -- given that Ms. Eaton wasn't in the room during the "repairs" and doesn't understand computers, by her own admission -- than was her sworn statement that Barbian *told her how to defraud the recount* verbally.

Why in the *world* isn't *that* the story? The New York Times, Associated Press, and Wired News have missed the boat on this entire situation and it is *killing* this vitally-important news story.

Check out our coverage on The Advocate and be (we hope) better informed than The Times:

http://nashuaadvocate.blogspot.com/

The News Editor
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chorti Donating Member (104 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. the code would have been the ballot order
the patch would have been a new foxpro file that did not interact with the precinct file like the nov 2 code would have. The nov 2 code would have read a precinct file which stored the candidate order for each race for each precinct. Because Blackwell gave a directive to only count the Pres race, a patch was necessary. For some reason Triad wrote very simple code where it was necessary for the user to manually enter the candidate order in order for the counter to count it correctly. .... At least this would be their story. It also leaves the whole process open to tampering and is likely illegal.
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nashuaadvocate Donating Member (514 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. Chorti, hi!
...So how would either the "patch" and/or the "code" have allowed Ms. Eaton, through the use of a "cheat sheet," to "ensure" that the hand- and machine-recounts matched -- as they now have in nearly every single Ohio county, to the tune of at least 56,000 ballots hand- and machine-recounted without a *single* disparity? What did Mr. Barbian's comments to Ms. Eaton mean? Was he joking? And say he was (not that anyone's asked him yet): Is it a major news story if a private company repairman is joking about criminal election fraud during an unscheduled "repair" trip for which he didn't even bring a screwdriver? What if even *touching* the computer was, as reported recently by MSNBC, a violation of an Executive Order by the Ohio Secretary of State -- issued just days before?

The News Editor
The Nashua Advocate
http://nashuaadvocate.blogspot.com/
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ohio_liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #14
27. Was it?
I thought this story was about Hocking County. Wasn't the unlocked building in Greene County?
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #9
22. Read "eighty mph"'s other posts on DU
;)
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Replacing a CMOS battery does not take 3 hours and require
multiple phone calls.

The Greene County BoE did not call Triad asking for assistance. Michael Barbian, Jr. contacted the BoE and said he would stop by and that their would be no charge for his visit.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #13
30. Correct. And, as to the "paper ballot" issue, that is sorta correct...
...because the details that matter with this particular "computer" is, as you know, it is attached to the main puch-card reader -- it is the 'tabulator.'

The critical comparison is a hand count of the cards compared to what was recorded by the 'tabulator' before and after the illegal access to the computer occurred.

So, the access is an issue all by itself.

The issue of what may have been done is separate (and 3 h is, indeed, a very looooonnnggg time to swap a cmos battery).

And, most importantly, those cards need to be counted by a person, not run through the 'repaired' tabulator.

What the folk at the BoE in Hocking County need to do is assemble an appropriate team and inspect those cards, tally the results and compare to the tabulation results from 2 Nov 2004. They then need to take those same cards and run them through the detector attached to the 'repaired' tabulating computer and see what results they get. This situation is an ideal place to focus if you want to collect facts.

Peace.

"I'm an American patriot, not a pro-fraud theocrat"


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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. And, as to the "repeat repair' that is truly a farce, because, as...
....most of you realize, no one should have been allowed subsequent access to that computer until a test set of punch cards had been run through the device and the tabulated results compared to a visual inspection of the test set of cards.

What still matters most is a visual inspection of the punch cards used by voters on 2 Nov 2004 and a comparison of that inspection to the tabulated results reported on 2-3 Nov 2004.

Don't focus on gambits; focus on the real deal -- those punch cards.

Peace.
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. Unfortunately the chain of command for the Greene County punch cards
has been compromised as testified to in the affidavit of Katrina Sumner.

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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. Understood. But, what I hope someone will make happen...
....is a visual inspection of each punch card used in Hocking County.

They would not have been messing with that punchcard reader/tabulating computer if they weren't concerned about having the thing confiscated and inspected by experts. I think they'd rather have a visual inspection show that the results from reading the punch cards on 2-3 Nov differ from running the cards through the system, again; than have someone gain access to the computer, itself, in the state it was in on election day. Reverse compiling is tough; but folk exist who know how to do it.
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #34
41. I would like to see all punch cards in Greene County examined
for absence of fingerprints.
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mirrera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
33. Then what was the patch???
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 11:21 AM by mirrera
http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,66072,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_3


Sherole Eaton specifically heard the Technician say he was putting in a patch. It must be an important point because Triad president Rapp said she must have mis-heard. She and her co-worker say they definitely did not mis-hear because they don't know what a patch is. Sherole does NOT think there was vote tampering and said so. So she is certainly not looking for evidence to support fraud, but she is sure about what she heard. SO if it was a patch, would replacing the CMOS be considered that? If so why would Rapp specifically deny that Sherole heard that word?
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chorti Donating Member (104 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. the patch was done in each county
under a directive of SOS Blackwell to make sure that the counters only counted the Presidential race. This directive appears to be illegal in that it comprised the integrity of the counting machines. So it seems that this tech took care of a couple different matters on this visit.

The patch is a foxpro executable code file that needed to be placed on each counting machine. We need to get a copy of that code as well as the code originally used on November 2. That is what the Arnebeck, etal, need. And that is what the Plain-Dealer needs to see if it is serious about doing investigative journalism.
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. Would you be willing to write the CPD and explain the situation to them?
I'm not an IT person, even though I can understand that inherently something is wrong with the maneuvers which took place prior to, during, and following the election.

OTOH, you seem very comfortable with the procedures and lingo of the business. Would you write the CPD, please, and tell them why they are being misled by this duplicitous display by Triad?

Thanks.

:thumbsup:
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #35
40. Chorti, please do as Straight Shooter has requested. And, I'm...
......sending you a letter I just wrote to your pm account.
Thanks.
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chorti Donating Member (104 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. OK - wrote to the CPD
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Thank you (n/t)
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. Thanks, Chorti!
Please share their response with us when it comes in.

:thumbsup:
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AnarchoFreeThinker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
10. Can we get Nixon to show us exactly how he didn't erase the tapes, too?
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dzika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
12. The amazing thing is....
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 09:24 AM by dzika
...that the media is taking this flawed logic as a fact.

edit:sp.
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sepia_steel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
15. It just never stops being logical
factual

realistic

tangible

believable

foolproof

proveable


/sarcasm


GODAMMAT THE BULLSHIT IN OHIO JUST GETS MORE AND MORE INSULTING. WHO DO THEY THINK WE ARE??? WHO DO THEY THINK THEY ARE????

THIS WOULD NEVER HOLD UP IN ANY OTHER COURT.

This is just beyond words. How can this happen?

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tngledwebb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
17. How you know this is wrong-
AP story.
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jmknapp Donating Member (381 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
18. Ballot rotation
Edited on Tue Dec-21-04 09:45 AM by jmknapp
The tech asked to know the precinct that they were planning to recount, and was told that it would be "Good Hope 1 #17."

The affidavit goes on to state:

"Michael gave us instructions on how to explain the rotation, what the tests mean, etc."

So he might have wanted to know the precinct so that he would know the specific ballot order rotation for that precinct.

The stuff about the "cheat sheet" is also unclear:

"He advised Lisa and I on how to post a 'cheat sheet' on the wall so that only board members and staff would know about it and what the codes meant so the count would come out perfect and we wouldn't have to do a hand recount of the county."

What were these codes that he suggested posting? The ballot order positions? Why would that information (or any information) be kept from the observers?

This really is a very curious story.
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chorti Donating Member (104 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #18
28. ballot order is defined in the software
The foxpro code that was used to count the punchcards on election night had to have a precinct file that would have the ballot order defined for each precinct. As long as the precinct header card was run through before the ballots, there should be no issues with order. The only reason to know the ballot order would be for the manual recount. Or, he would need to know the ballot order if he was not using the usual foxpro files/code and in that case the operator would need to manually enter the order for each precinct before the counting started. I don't remember any reports of that happening in any case yet though. So it is more likely that the tech was doing a favor to the BOE and making sure they would know the ballot order when they did the manual recount.

OK, for conspiracies ... Perhaps they were going to recount the pre-selected precincts the day before the official recount to make sure that they matched up. Perhaps they did both a manual recount and a machine recount and they didn't match up so they called up the Triad tech to come "fix" the machine. The Democrat BOE staff might not know what the Republican BOE staff was doing. Although usually the room is double-locked with each having a unique key.

It seems like from here on out we are going to need three keys to the ballot room - one for the Repug's, one for the Dem's and one for the Greens!
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #28
42. The favor part is fishy
You wrote:

So it is more likely that the tech was doing a favor to the BOE and making sure they would know the ballot order when they did the manual recount.


The Greene County BoE did not call Triad asking for help, and Michael Barbian is no lowly tech. His name is one of only 3 listed on the Triad web site. Even daughter Cheryl is not mentioned. And the favor which was unsolicited was FREE OF CHARGE.

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chorti Donating Member (104 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. on second thought, probably not a favor
I forgot that Eaton's affidavit said that, quoted from Nashue Adv above, "after installing a "patch" to the county computer program to "fix" a problem they didn't even know they had, he tells her (and Lisa Schwartze) how to enter a "code" to ensure that the hand- and machine-recount match."

This would seem to indicate that they had to enter the candidate order code manually. If true, then the 'cheat sheet' would have this candidate order on it. (Do we know what was written on the cheat sheet?) And if this is true, then this same thing would have had to happen in each Triad county ... before each precinct was recounted by machine the operator would have had to manually enter the candidate order. Do we know if this happened?
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berniew1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
20. But the "Default to Bush" vote machine fraud documented in Ohio,etc.
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hedda_foil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #20
29. Bernie ... you keep going way beyond fact which doesn't help at all.
Richard Hayes Phillips' paper shows that some touch screen machines MAY have defaulted to Bush and that other touch screen machines may have defaulted to "no vote." He does not claim to prove that it DID happen, just that it could have happened in some places, given the voting patterns there.

It's a step beyond speculation, but is not documentation of fact. And yes, I do know Richard, and respect him immensely.
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KnowerOfLogic Donating Member (841 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
21.  And we're just supposed to 'trust' that he's doing the same thing he
did before the recount. Jeezus H. Christ. Who thinks this proves anything?
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
23. The plaintiffs attorneys will not be fooled and thats all that matters
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
24. Are they PC techs? eom
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plmbch60 Donating Member (27 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
25. is it over yet????
Yesterday they had counted about 80 counties and don't have far to go. Should be done counting today or tomorrow.
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OKthatsIT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
46. Midwesterners are SLOW
I left and moved East at 18yrs...never wanted to go home again
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Fly by night Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
49. My letter to the Cleveland "Dealer from the bottom of the deck"
Letter to the Cleveland Plain-Dealer:

In an effort to determine whether tampering with the vote counting machine by Triad had occurred in Hocking County, local prosecutors and police allowed the technician to "demonstrate" what he had done to "prove" that no wrongdoing occurred.

It seems that we now have a solution to rampant crime in Ohio and the U.S. Just let accused criminals reenact their crime to prove that they had done nothing wrong. Problem solved.

Just how venal are Ohio officials and how stupid are Ohio media that they believe that this sham proved anything? What it is proving to the rest of us in the U.S. is that trusting the fate of our country's election process to Ohioans is the worst thing we can do. See you folks in court -- SOON.

(my name)
Fly, TN
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Alizaryn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Nicely done. Have you read anything about the tech's
response to the "cheat sheet" accusation yet?
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New Earth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-21-04 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
51. i need some help
now, FOX has this article on their site http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,142135,00.html

and someone from another board i post on just posted it like Jesus came down to save the world. (he's a freep) he apparently thinks this means that the entire idea of there being Fraud in the election is now 'debunked'. Can he not read?

what the hell can i say back to him?
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