Harris and March taking the money anyway?

[Kelvin Mace]

Background:

Bev Harris has publicly stated that she was turning down the $75,000 she and Jim March were being alotted for the Qui Tam law suit filed against Diebold last year, a law suit Bev accused other activists of filing, smearing them for "selling out".

When the settlement was proposed, Bev claimed that she was not taking the money and they were taking Diebold into discovery and would force them to own up to their sins.

Now we learn that the settlement has been approved and that neither Bev, Jim nor her lawyer ever bothered to file any protest and the settlement has been APPROVED.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041217/clf031_1.html

Just picked this up from the Yahoo Diebold message board,

http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=4687614&tid=dbd&sid=4687614&mid=8887

Oh well. There's a consolation prize, we end up with something north of $75k a piece - details to come but the proposal from Lockyer's people specifies at least that. And eventually, somewhere, a judge is going to pay attention.

What gives?

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[eowyn_of_rohan]

1. So she is a sell-out

Disappointing, and I am sorry I was duped into sending her money, but I for one am not going to think about her anymore. Onward and upward.

[Kelvin Mace]

2. To be fair

this is Jim March talking, but the whole thread over at Yahoo opens a LOT of questions. Apparently, NO motions were ever filed and March claims he didn't know, which I find kind of hard to believe.

Perhaps Lowell Finley will join Andy as the next scapegoat?

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[ohio_liberal]

3. So...

I guess ole Jim isn't going to be a millionaire after all.

[Kelvin Mace]

4. But he does plan on buying a new motorcycle...

But help me out here: which custom license plate for $10k worth of new bike works best: "DEADBLD" or "LIEBOLD"?

Nice to know someone is going to make some bucks off of this.

[troubleinwinter]

5. Awwww... Jim only gets a motorcycle?

I thought he was expecting million$$$. Enough to buy a town. At least as of July 2004 on a pro-gun webpage, he posted:

"What does it all mean?

It means Viacom and Diebold are now engaged in a race to see who can make ol' Jim a millionaire first .
....
So anyways...the profit potential here is just crazy. If the various Sheriffs and PD Chiefs think I've been a nuisance while running on a shoestring, wait'll they get a load o' me and a couple million bucks to toss around .

I don't think buying a whole town would be a good idea though. Too easy for legislation to screw us.

Jim March"

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=90961&perpage=999

[crispini]

6. Oh, brother. n/t

[NC Beach Girl]

7. Yes, I think they are taking it

This is all fascinating once you start putting all the posts from different boards together. It's a very different story from one place to the next! Jim March really seems to enjoy posting about everything on that gun board and yahoo while you can barely find any info on bbv!

I posted this on another thread, but it probably should be here instead. Bev has responded this morning to the settlement question posted on her site, apparently she is still "crafting a response".

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/dcforum/DCForumID4410/89.html

quoting:

QuiTamTimeIsOver
Crew
Dec-21-04, 02:37 AM (PST)

6. "RE: There will be an announcement"
In response to message #3

>Something bizarre happened.
>
>Jim March and I are looking at our options right now.
>
>Bev

Are you still crafting a response to this?

I read Jim March's posts here: http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=4687614&tid=dbd&sid=4687614&mid=8894
it implies that you guys are going to blame Lowell for taking the settlement? But, as Jim has mentioned before you did lose the right to veto anything as soon as the state joined your case, so I'm not sure how that can be Lowell's fault as much it is the nature of Qui Tam.

I get the feeling that some members of this board still think this case is going on and I think you should clear now rather than wait for a backlash and to avoid any feelings of being misled that may arise when they finally realize that this is a done deal.

__________________________________________________________
18. DISMISSAL.The original qui tam complaint filed by MARCH and HARRIS on November 21, 2003 is ordered dismissed with prejudice. All DOE defendants named in the First Amended Complaint are dismissed with prejudice.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

In the 18th line of the settlement (you can see it at verified voting) it clearly stated that the original case was dismissed with prejudice, meaning of course that there is no bringing it back...it's a shame. I'm not sure Qui Tam is the way to go if the Attorney General can just take over and the company gets away with a little rebate while the machines are still used all over the state. Ultimately, the voters in CA get nothing and I guess Jim gets a new motorcycle, not sure how I feel about that at all.

http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=4687614&tid=dbd&sid=4687614&mid=8887




BevHarris
Member since Jul-11-03
1895 posts Dec-21-04, 07:45 AM (PST)

7. "Something unexpected happened."
In response to message #6

LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-04 AT 07:55 AM (PST)

We simply are not through reviewing our options.
Bev Harris

[Kelvin Mace]

10. Yes, I think Lowell Finley is next

on the list for Bev's to start smearing. Though, she might have some sense, him being a lawyer and all.

David.

[troubleinwinter]

12. Yes, it looks like Finley is next up for the smear,

to be accused of incompetence and/or malpractice:

From http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=4687614&tid=dbd&sid=4687614&mid=8894 :

"Three possibilities spring to mind:

a) Mr. Finley is incompetent, or

b) Mr. Finley is perpetrating malpractice by not representing his clients' stated wishes, or

c) you and Bev Harris were lying because you wanted to be seen as noble fighters for a higher cause, not opportunistic, slimy cash-grabbers.
------------

(Jim's response to above)

You're correct. Those are the possibilities. I'm not going to comment right now because we're trying to figure out how to undo the damage and what we can do from here.

This latest court action may not prove to be final.

Dammit...ssk yourselves this: why would I have been talking the way I did just the day before the announcement of the judge's decision if I knew it was coming?

Jim"

[Kelvin Mace]

11. BTW, Beach Girl

thanks for the links. I thought this point needed its own thread as it might get buried in the old one. Not stepping on your toes, I hope.

David.

[NC Beach Girl]

24. :)

Oh, you aren't stepping on anything...I think it deserved a new thread, too and I appreciate you posting it. There is so much info posted everywhere that it's hard weed through it all to get to the truth in all this drama. :)

Back over at BBV, Bev has now "temporarily" locked the thread I linked originally, but she hasn't deleted anything (yet!). ;)


BevHarris
Member since Jul-11-03
1898 posts Dec-21-04, 10:29 AM (PST)

10. "I'll be locking this but only temporarily --"
In response to message #9

Will have a new section for this in the new forum, which I am working on right now. In the mean time, we actually are working on our options. Thanks.
Bev




Strange that this one was the only one she locked.

[Kelvin Mace]

25. I would love to know how many threads are getting deleted

out of hand. Since I doubt she trusts anyone with moderator rights, she must spend alot of time keeping inconvenient questions deleted.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[ohio_liberal]

13. So help me understand....

I'm definitely not hip to legalese, but doesn't "dismissed with prejudice" mean this thing is over for Bev Harris and Jim March? They can't file another suit based on the same set of facts in the same jurisdiction, true or not?

[troubleinwinter]

14. Yup, it does.

[Kelvin Mace]

39. Absolutely correct!

So, here's my prediction on the official explanation that will come out. Finley will be accused of sabotaging the law suit at the behest of Diebold/Rove/DU/Kerry/Dr. Evil (pick one or more). He will be publicly denounced, fired and announcements of pending litigation will me made. Promises that a new attorney will be brought on board who will refile all the paperwork and revive the suit.

Bev and Jim will still cash the checks.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Kelvin Mace]

8. I just noticed that Bev has deleted

her claim that George Bush is on her side from her site. Unofrtunately, I did not archive that link, so if anyone else did, please let me have a copy.

8. "Please do not bash 'freepers' -- here's why"
In response to message #7

that is a term that comes from Free Republic, a political forum. Free Republic has had some outstanding discussions on voting machine integrity in the past. I have gotten some good consultation from "freepers."

We are nonpartisan. Everyone who's not a criminal wants clean elections. One of our board members, Jim March, has done some fantastic work on this issue, and I guess you'd describe him as a "freeper" -- he's a gun lobbyist who supports George Bush.

You may be very surprised at who's in our corner on this issue. In fact, George Bush ordered my book, had it overnighted.

Thanks.

Bev

We need to be sure and archive any posts like this in the future, because once Bev starts her Orwellian rewrites, it vanishes.

David

[crispini]

9. Through the looking glass.

This part of the election fraud story has more twists and turns than a Mexican soap opera.

[Straight Shooter]

15. "George Bush ordered my book, had it overnighted"

Proof? Copy of courier receipt made out to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue or Crawford? Nothing is fact merely based on somebody's saying so.

This is all too weird for me. It's another drop of ink spilled into the glass of milk, and it turns people off to the possibility of election tampering. Remember that the average American is attuned to the personality and not the issue at hand.

:wtf:

[Kelvin Mace]

22. I have expressed my skepticism on this matter

as did you. But to clarify, I not claiming this, Bev is. The quote is from her own post on bbv.org, which has since been deleted.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[robbedvoter]

27. I only kept - with link- her amended post:

17. "RE: Please do not bash 'freepers' -- here's why"
In response to message #15
 
   I don't know why George Bush ordered it. The fact is, he did, or, at least, his personal librarian did, with some urgency. Al Gore read my book, too, and reportedly gave it to Jimmy Carter. John Kerry was given several copies of my book, but apparently never read it.

I do wonder who read it to George Bush.

The wording above was rather unfortunate, it would probably have been more accurate to say:

you may be surprised who's on your side. Many Republicans, and thousands of Libertarians have made this their issue. Candidates on all sides of the political spectrum have ordered the Black Box Voting book. Even George W. Bush ordered it, had it overnighted.

http://www.blackboxvoting.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=2&forum=DCForumID4410&omm=17&viewmode=threaded

[Kelvin Mace]

32. That one's deleted as well

[catcatcat]

28. i'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but i have a saved...

copy of the thread the post you're quoting from appeared on. it's probably too long to post here, but i can e-mail it to you if you like (if you want me to send you an exact copy of what i have (an html file and an associated folder with gifs and whatnot for the graphics), you'll either need to clue me in on how to send attachments using the DU email interface or provide me with an e-mail address).

[ohio_liberal]

16. More from Jim March

The problem with DU was that it's partisan as hell. Mods/owners have connections running all the way to the DNC.

That turned into a disaster the moment Bev started chasing funky documents in *Democrat* operated county elections offices such as Palm Beach, Volusia, etc. The DU crowd basically went "wait, how is THIS going to ensure that the evil dictator Dubya gets thrown out of office!?" and blew up.

This isn't about "Bush versus Kerry". It never was. It's about "are the damned machines any good?"

Which meant there was a pretty big "goals gap" between Bev and the DU/Air America crowd.

Oh well.

Jim March

http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=4687614&tid=dbd&sid=4687614&mid=8884

[salin]

17. bwahahahaha... what a joke

the criticism and skepticism per bev has been around since almost the day she started posting. The difference was that the critics didn't often take full aim, due to respect for the cause which IS important. However with each bridge she dramatically burned... there were more critics who were willing to be vocal, increasingly for the same reason folks were quiet before... for the good of the cause (as it became more and more apparent that she might not be the right "figurehead" for the movement.)

No Jim, she wasn't booted the first time due to partisan reasons, but due to public behavior that defamed other duers and escalated into unproductive flame wars.

No Jim, she wasn't booted due to Volusia she was booted for threatening to SUE du and duers.

Her pattern of behavior can be explained simply as under too much stress in part brought on by her own need to control and her consequent paranoia OR by sheer opportunism (and the cigars suggest the latter) - I would suspect a combination.

Oh- but that's right - Bev herself suggested that DU is part of a conspiracy and the reason things headed south in Volusia.

Yep the long time DUers have always been in on the conspiracy to thwart bev... we started posting long before she appeared because we knew that she would and we were waiting to egg her on and then turn on her... the tons of money donated via DU and the work product generated by DUers - that was ALL a part of the conspiracy... :eyes:

[greatauntoftriplets]

18. DU "partisan as hell"????

ROTFLMFAO, what did he think the name Democratic Underground meant?

[ohio_liberal]

19. LOL

I thought it was pretty funny too. DU was good enough for fundraising and free research. :shrug:

[crispini]

20. Hey, plan 9...

The doofus over at Olbermann Watch thinks you're Skinner:

http://www.olbermannwatch.com/archives/2004/12/democratic_unde.html

"In addition to running Democratic Underground, David Allen is the founder of BlackBoxVoting.com, a conspiracy-minded group operating out of North Carolina, and a publisher, whose company, Plan Nine, was, in yet another connection, the publisher for Bev Harris' book."

Sheesh!

[Kelvin Mace]

21. The curse of having the same name

We keep trying to keep this straight.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[carolinalady]

60. This may be stupid but, do you guys really have the same

name? I just got my DU bumper sticker and a letter that I thought you signed. I figured you must be working with them.
:shrug:

[Kelvin Mace]

66. Yes, we really do.

I am thinking of asking Skinner if I can change my screen name, "Not Skinner"

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Kelvin Mace]

46. If you check now,

they actually corrected the posting and were quite civil about it.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Kelvin Mace]

23. Another tidbit someone sent me...

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/columnists/sfl-panthony11dec11,0,1008663.column

Black Box Voting, which has anointed itself watchdog of electronic voting, made a big show of filing lawsuits demanding documents from state elections supervisors.

The case filed against LePore appeared slapped together without proofreading.

In the middle, the lawsuit says, "Thank you very much, and here's hoping for a smooth and simple canvass which works out perfectly for you. We very, very much appreciate your help with this, and we do realize how stressful this election has been."

Another oddity was the repeated misspelling of her name as "Teresa LaPore."

Here is the actual page at bbv.org, which will soon be deleted.

http://blackboxvoting.org/palm-beach-county-lawsuit.html

Who drafted the suit? Can't see a lawyer making this kind of mistake, can you. Can anyone find out of this suit was ACTUALLY filed?

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[americanstranger]

26. Is anyone still not convinced

That Bev has pulled off a scam of Republican proportions here?

If you still think she's got any integrity at all, take a hammer and beat some sense into your own head.

-as

[Fud]

29. I still don't appreicate the attacks on DU

On her own site she trashed this place publically saying that the community basically did nothing here. She ended up deleting posts on her own board when inconvienient facts came out.
I noticed anything factual posted there got scrubbed. They were not smears or attacks just facts thats all.

A paper shredder doesn't work on the net when something embarrasing comes out. Not sure if everyone knows this but you can save a whole page in it's entirety by going to file/save and save as a .mht file.

Basically she said you are worthless and never do anything but she is?

I asked her to stay out of Ohio for fear of that getting screwed up and just stay in Florida and show results. That got deleted on her forum but oh well she owns it.

[NC Beach Girl]

30. BBV deletion epidemic

I noticed that she deleted your posts, as well as a few posts with links that proved she did advertise, sell, and take money for those damn cigars after one of her pals indicated she didn't...I should have saved that thread. Maybe soon we'll hear that the board was hacked (again).

Of course, that is petty stuff compared to the bigger picture. It amazes me that this is (by their own admission) a $300,000 2-person operation with literally thousands of pages of FOIA requests to go through to try to find fraud, but the director has enough free time to pick through and delete messages on a board all day long. Truly bizarre.

[troubleinwinter]

56. She DIDN'T delete the post

that called donations "chump-change".

:mad:

[Kelvin Mace]

64. Ooooooo where is that?

Quick, before it disppears.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[greatauntoftriplets]

65. That's a little insulting to those who donated ...

...their hard-earned money.

[Kelvin Mace]

67. Yep, and the evidence already deleted

LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-04 AT 08:01 AM (PST)

(edited to provide the "P.S." to address other misconceptions)

Yeah, "editing".

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Boredtodeath]

31. Nothing new

Bev truly believes she can just delete inconvenient facts and no one will remember them.

You know, like those inconvenient facts that DUers did her research for her.....

I predict she'll try to delete the inconvenient facts about this Qui Tam case as well. Particularly, that little fact that the 501 organization would get any settlement from it.

Jim March already has.

[Jax]

34. americanstranger, fud

Thank you for all you have done on the very important issue of Voter Fraud and Voting machine problems. You have been out in front on this with much more class and credibility to this DUer that Harris ever had.

plan9_pub, Eloriel, Dem Activist...you three have been outstanding on this as well.

You have been the voices I have looked to for a good while now on these issues, not Harris.

For standing up and speaking out for ALL of us, my house gives you all a bigtime standing ovation and a lifetime of thanks. I will not be silent on these issues. What I have learned from your efforts is the information I arm myself with to hopefully help break this unbelievable and sickening cycle of voter fraud we are facing. I will not be silent while our Democracy is shredded.

:yourock: :thumbsup:

Jax

[americanstranger]

36. I'm not claiming any credit.

There are a lot of people on that line in front of me who did a whole lot more than Bev Harris. As far as TBTM goes, all the credit for persuing this issue goes to Symbolman and his wife, who spent the better part of a year running around the country filming 'Electile Dysfunction.' They worked long and hard on that DVD, and the credit goes to them and to People To People TV, who kept the cameras rolling.

The one place that I will claim credit is that BartCop and the folks at BC Forum had Bev sussed nearly two years ago.

Some people don't like hearing the truth about Bev. But that's too bad, IMO. If the house is burning down, you yell 'fire.' Sinmple as that.

-as

[Fud]

47. Notice Symbolman got attacked there

They were basically calling him a liar. I know the dude and know he is honest and his wife as well. I really don't take kindly to that for the simple reason they are good people. it's like you don't have to be a mind reader to know when peoples intentions are good. I'll keep comming back when i see a lie going after real democrats.

Stranger,symbolman,David Allen are beyond reproach. This is why alot of us are calling her on it and finally most people are seeing what this is all about.

I don't like harping on this but she starts the fights first and allways had. I'm from the old school where if someone kicks you in the teeth you don't say thankyou can i have more of the same.

[Chimpanzee]

33. My personal verdict is still out on Bev and BBV

but I will not be sending her anymore money, that's for sure!

[Kelvin Mace]

35. Good to hear

but I am curious, and not trying to be a smartass, but what more evidence will convince you?

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org


edit: typo

[GetTheRightVote]

37. hmmmmmmmm

[Chimpanzee]

50. Maybe actually producing something???

[Kelvin Mace]

51. Bev or me?

[Chimpanzee]

52. Bev, of course.. I don't even know you!

[Kelvin Mace]

53. Sorry,

trying to het the context of the question, Bev produce something of substance or me produce something to convince you of Bev's unlikelyness to produce anything.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Chimpanzee]

54. Unlikeliness, yes, but that still gives her an opening

I'm not holding my breath, and I suspect she is a basket-case.

[JMac]

38. From BBV

40. "ABOUT THE PRUNING OF POSTS HERE"
In response to message #0

In the new and improved forums, you'll find two new forums where we can (1) post all the drama fit to print, and (2) argue politics as enthusiastically as we like.
In the mean time, I'm still pruning pretty aggressively.

Love ya,

Bev


http://www.blackboxvoting.org/dcforum/DCForumID4410/84.html

[Generator]

40. She's a itching for her site to be the next DU

[Andy_Stephenson]

41. As if n/t

[Kelvin Mace]

42. "pruning"

Nice bit of doublespeak.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Andy_Stephenson]

43. "pruning

aggressivly" and the post from QuiTammy...Hmmmm

[JMac]

44. Im interested in her response to Qui Tammy

They have been crafting their 'response' and 'looking into their options' for over 4 days now according to the time stamps.

On edit: Ah, I see Tammy's post got pruned. Lets see how long it takes her to find and 'prune' Tammy's post #25 here: http://www.blackboxvoting.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=50&forum=DCForumID4408&viewmode=all#25

[Kelvin Mace]

45. I expect the time stamps to change next

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[NC Beach Girl]

48. days of crafting

I guess pruning is more important than posting that carefully crafted response. I just don't understand how long that could really take?

[regularjoe]

49. Although she is spending a lot of time at BBV now...

for the 3 weeks after the election Bev didn't spend anytime on her website when it would have been very helpful to organize all the willing and anxious volunteers that showed up. Sadly the volunteerism died out with the absence of leadership.

regularjoe

[Kelvin Mace]

55. And still soliciting volunteers

on her main page. Please notice that on the main page the only active links are "Cleanup Crew Forums" and "Donate". "Investigations", "News Articles" and "Contact Information" are not links.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[ohio_liberal]

57. Whoever maintains that website

is a slacker :evilgrin:

[Kelvin Mace]

59. That would be Bev

no one else is trusted.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[Carl Brennan]

58. Very important: forget all of the good the Bev Harris

did. :eyes:

You people are pathetic. :grr:

[Boredtodeath]

61. Good? What good?

You mean the last 2 years of lying about activists and professionals who were supposed to be on the same side?

Or do you mean the "good" of Bev Harris and Jim March shoving the true whistleblowers out of the way, stomping over their faces and rushing into court to file Qui Tam?

Or do you mean the "good" of Bev Harris who are counting their silver coins this Christmas week on the backs of Rob Behler and Jim Dunn (the TRUE whistleblowers) while Rob's 7 kids do without?

Remind me someday about The Good Bev Harris. Today I'm going to be sick.

[Pastiche423]

62. Please tell us all

what Bev did.

This is not to include the months of research DUers did for free.

This is not to include any of the work Andy did.

Just WTF did Bev do besides take money from many people that could not afford to give. (Especially to a con)

[NC Beach Girl]

63. what is she doing now?

I'd be interested to hear your take on what Bev did herself (that didn't include the work of people on DU or Andy) but more importantly, what is Bev doing NOW?

She has at least $376,000 now at her disposal....so what is she doing? Is she in Ohio helping to count? Did she help with the recount in her own state (WA)? Or does she sit around all day "pruning" her message board and "crafting" responses to taking the Qui Tam settlement?

What is Bev doing now that is so helpful for voting? I actually came to DU from BBV after realizing she wasn't doing anything! The more I read the BBV site, the more disturbed I was by this woman. Yes, I DONATED TO HER when Randi Rhodes sent out the plea. Yes, I OFFERED TO HELP HER like several people on her site after those first days of heavy publicity she got, she ignored it and continued to run her organization into the ground.

She has quietly taken the money from the Qui Tam case while pretending that it isn't over. She spends her days deleting posts from her message board, creating statements of support for herself, or making vague posts about "flying eagles". There has been no new credible voting related information from Bev or BBV in MONTHS. She has $376,000, but can't manage to get a scanner to get all her FOIA documents on the internet!!

There is no excuse for the way BBV is being run.

[Kelvin Mace]

68. Ah, yes

Ignore the fact that we have REPEATEDLY credited her for the bit of good she did do. Anyone who does anything good, now has a license to lie, libel, slander, and treat people like dirt for the rest of their life.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org