Washington State Supreme Court Live NOW C-SPAN!

[Patsy Stone]

Sorry if this has already been posted.

[SueZhope]

1. Thanks Patsy...great to see you

Is this about the governor's race?
Thanks

[merwin]

2. Yes n/t

[Patsy Stone]

3. Thanks. Nice to be back. n/t

[KerryReallyWon]

4. C-SPAN 1 OR 2??

[Patsy Stone]

5. Regular C-SPAN 1

They're showing the FR/Fraud thing now. It says it's starting shortly.

[Patsy Stone]

6. Starting RIGHT NOW! n/t

[Patsy Stone]

7. Here we go... n/t

[SueZhope]

8. history being made as we watch n/t

[Karenca]

9. Thanks Patsy -- Hope you had a lovely vacation :)) nt

[Patsy Stone]

25. Yes, we did!

Damn it was freezing in NYC. I got a cold...

[Karenca]

29. You were here !?! It was freakin' FREEZING on Monday!!!!!!

Today, the temperature is going up to 60.

[Patsy Stone]

30. Yep.

It was sooooo cold on Monday. I had family crap to do, or I would have tried to hook up and meet you. I was afraid there would be ice on the wings. I think, with the wind chill, they said it felt like 30 below when they were loading the bags.

I did get a little teeny bit of snow/ice to take back as a visual souvenir to Miami Beach, though.

[Karenca]

35. Next time you visit NYC,

I will be more than happy to be your tour guide: :toast:

(i can show you KO's bldg too!)

[caligirl]

10. Arguments are stasrting, thanks for the heads up.

[Terre]

11. Thanks for the heads-up!! n/t

[pbartch]

12. watching this now on C-SPAN 1 ===I just happened to find it

Goooooooooooooooooooooooooo DEMOCRATS!!!!!!!

[iamjoy]

13. Can't Watch - At Work

But I thought I heard on NPR this morning that the Republican Secretary of State feels the King County votes (previously disqualified in error) should be re-evaluated to see if they are legitimate (to include in recount)

Confirm?

[caligirl]

14. Thomas Ahearne arguing now

[caligirl]

15. Janine Joly arguing for King county elections boardn/t

[caligirl]

17. She is arguing that the court improperrly inserted itself

in granting the TRO on the King County elections board stopping the count of the 500+ ballots not counted in error. Want the TRO dissolved.

[caligirl]

19. Joly : these ballots were never previously rejected,

they had been misfiled with wrong signatures. 573 ballots were not properly canvased by the rules of section 210. Therefore they were not included in the returns, In canvasing these ballots the first step was followed and the second step never was taken in canvasing these ballots as allowed by 210.

[caligirl]

20. Remeber no one knows what the votes are in these ballots. They could go

either way

[Pacifist Patriot]

16. I wish I knew more about the law. I'm watching, but much is over my head.

[SueZhope]

18. Just thinking the same thing

any legal minds want to translate ?

[caligirl]

21. Repug lawyer arguing now

No vote should be disenfranchied. He says these votes , in order to be counted now, they had to be counted in the first count. Otherwise, if it isn't a win for a repug, we only count votes in a recount that had been completely canvased in the first place.

[caligirl]

23. seems like they

are saying, if a machine misses votes that were made, there is no recourse for the disenfranchied voters. Seems like the votes in Ohio that were missed would never have recourse if this guys arguement went to an Ohio court.

[Patsy Stone]

22. Repubs should shut up at this point

If Gregoire is up by 8, it might just help them if those 573 ballots are counted.

For those unfamiliar with SC proceedings, sometimes during oral arguments, the justices ask questions as a procedure to actually point out answers to other justices questions.

[Alizaryn]

24. I wish someone would squash this guy representing

the republican cause. How the hell can you say "Do not count the votes" and look in yourself in a mirror?

[Patsy Stone]

26. Have you heard of Florida in 2000?? :) n/t

[Chimpanzee]

27. It's fun watching this guy get dissed by the judges!

They don't have a case at all - 'Don't count these votes!'

[Patsy Stone]

33. He sounds like that baby bird on Bugs Bunny... Dahhh ok... n/t

[Alizaryn]

34. He has the same BLINKING disease that his leader

has!

[caligirl]

28. Its too late to count every vote. Harry Korell atty for repugs

[caligirl]

31. Repugs want Institutional fraud by court

[Chimpanzee]

32. "irreparable harm"

Translation: We LOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[caligirl]

37. Judge says shouldn't we be looking at it from the

point of view of the voter, kroll says he didn't understand her question. he just argued that harm would come to his client if the TRO was lifted and ballots were counted.And that was the concern,not the voter the court should be worried about. His position is the ballots were rejected originally, Joly says they were not rejected.

[caligirl]

42. Kroll says the SOS issues guidelines frequently, likens him to

Blackwell.

[flpoljunkie]

61. To reject these ballots would not only set a precedent against voters

having their votes counted, it would give license to elections workers to engage in all kind of shenanigans--disqualifying legal ballots with impunity.

[texpatriot2004]

36. Your Honor says, "you are looking at this from the point of view

of the winner or loser, but shouldn't we be looking at this from the point of view of the VOTER."

[Patsy Stone]

39. I stood up and cheered! n/t

[SueZhope]

40. The VOTER oh yeah forgot about them.....n/t

[mirandapriestly]

44. hurrah!! n/t

[Vidar]

92. My God, a judge with integrity.

[Patsy Stone]

38. These justices Kick Ass! n/t

[texpatriot2004]

41. So, is it me or is this Rethug out on a limb here, it seems he's

doing some very creative lawyering.

[Patsy Stone]

43. Dangling in the wind... No kinda case here. n/t

[SueZhope]

45. YUP hes talking out his but and he is good at it n/t

[caligirl]

46. typical of the liars!

[Patsy Stone]

47. I expect Richard Gere to come out and start dancing soon. n/t

[caligirl]

54. Thats so funny, when will Kroll stop his tap dancing?

[caligirl]

49. He lost big points when he forgot the voter counts too.

[texpatriot2004]

52. Yes, he seemed really anti changing the results even if that's

how the votes came out.

[Moonwatcher]

48. Nice question from female justice

I'm paraphrasing here, but the Repub lawyer suggested irreparable harm for one candidate who is declared the loser being forced to contest the results vs. a declared winner.

Justice Susan Owens asked, "You're looking at this from the point of view of a winner and a loser. Shouldn't we be looking at this from the point of view of the voters?"

There was a pause, then the lawyer responded, "I'm not sure I understand the gist of that."

[sabra]

55. Doh!

Great questions...

[glitch]

66. Oh dear. That's just sad.

"I'm not sure I understand the gist of that."

[suffragette]

50. live streaming video and audio

They have it streamed live on
http://www.tvw.org/
for those not near a tv (like me).

[texpatriot2004]

51. Does he seem down on the SOS of Washington, seems that

he wants to limit SOS there but Ohio SOS has lots and lots of leeway.

[caligirl]

59. And this is why the election reform has to take place, the voter isn't

important anymore.

[baby_bear]

53. This guy should be on a "don't let this happen to you" video

Appropriate for law school students.

Also, don't sweat when in front of the Supremes, Harry.

b_b

[Patsy Stone]

58. LOL! Exactamente... What NOT to do. n/t

[Chimpanzee]

56. Bottom line

He wants to disenfranchise these voters to enable his client to win. He wants to have an outcome dictated by NOT COUNTING valid votes. I can't believe the SC will agree with this.

[texpatriot2004]

57. That's what I get too. n/t

[Patsy Stone]

60. Gotta love the "Temple of Justice" n/t

[texpatriot2004]

62. "The Universe of Ballots" hmm?

[texpatriot2004]

63. I didn't see them give Joly time for rebuttal. Did you?

[caligirl]

64. Judge Alexander just gave Kroll an extra 5 minutes, and 2.5 will be given

to Joly and Ahearne to come back.

[texpatriot2004]

Do we now get to hear from the Dems?

[Patsy Stone]

71. It's better this way

Give 'em enough rope... They know the Dems are right. It's also a lot more fun watching him twist himself into a pretzel.

[suffragette]

65. "in case we have to contest"

Sounds like they are already trying to prepare to do this.

[texpatriot2004]

67. "Canvassing boards should not be making decisions about

the validity of the ballots" Rethug lawyer says

Really? So who should?

[Patsy Stone]

72. Well, him, obviously :) n/t

[texpatriot2004]

68. He didn't answer her question, did he?

[caligirl]

69. She said the F word

[Chimpanzee]

70. You can't contest an election

simply because you lost, fair and square, you nimrod!

[texpatriot2004]

73. Did any other county find ballots that had only partially been

processed?

I mean, he's saying no other county has been able to do what King Co is trying to do here, but that's not a valid argument.

[caligirl]

74. David Burman now, saying some great points about Krells arguments

Krell says only damage is political to his looser client, voter rights can be held back and brought out when they need too. Mentioned a NY case name of Doyle.

[caligirl]

76. Doyle case a 1926 case in Ny

[Patsy Stone]

75. Moss v. Bush GRANTED!!! O/T but it's a good day in court all around!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x186472

[caligirl]

77. Thanks for the update. I think the dems will win this Wa case too.

[Patsy Stone]

79. Big Smile :) n/t

[gulogulo]

87. nope. read the thread. n/t

[Patsy Stone]

88. All good news is good news.

Procedural or not, I'm feeling happy. Don't kill the momentum! :)

[texpatriot2004]

78. Burman sounds solid, reasonable, not like he's being creative

with the facts, law, etc

[caligirl]

80. Joly up for rebuttal now addressing security of ballots and declaration

of elections official on security of ballots. Krell statements on this wre incorrect by the declaration, guards patroled,m ballots locked up and secured in container etc. Krell just lied out his Ass about this stuff to the court.

Now they are using her 2.5 minutes for more questions.

[understandinglife]

81. Funny thing about this rethug lawyer dud...

...is that an article appeared last week in the Seattle Times quoting a past WA SOS (Munro, a Republican):

"This thing could just degenerate and spiral downward," Munro said yesterday. "Whoever eventually becomes governor is going to have a very hard time governing, and we're going to go through four years of flopping around."

He suggested allowing new voter registrations for a few weeks, then holding a new election in February."

Link:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002122517_recount17m.html

For reasons obvious to many of you, I truly hope the rethugs try to 'play that card' in WA in the next few days!!

Peace.

[suffragette]

82. right of the voter is paramount

Yes, make that point

[texpatriot2004]

83. Absolutely! Remember it's about the voters. n/t

[caligirl]

84. Lets hope they do. The case just ended. n/t

[SueZhope]

85. any lawyers want to

predict the verdict in this case?

[AmerDem]

86. also, how long do you think

it will take them to come to a decision?

[Diane R]

89. This afternoon or tomorrow morning

I am in Washington State. Local media spoke with legal experts who predicted a fast turnaround. They are expecting this afternoon or tomorrow morning. King County will certify their tally @ 3:30 P.M. today, PST.

[caligirl]

91. could you post it ASAP here. On a separate thread?

[weeve]

90. Republican vs. Republican

Funny watching this Republican lawyer go against the brief that the Republican Sec. of State (Sam Reed) filed yesterday stating that the canvassing boards have always historically been giving the right to correct oversights before the final certification ! They're even willing to eat their own, as long as it results in valid votes being thrown out, and Rossi installed illegally in office. The Repubs have pretty much shown their cards, implying they WILL contest the election regardless ( Merry Christmas Supreme Court ! ). But if Gregoire is up by 8 votes anyway, these extra 500+ votes being argued about today are moot. I believe King County's canvassing board will announce the final ( 8 vote Gregoire win ? ) tally at 3:30 pm PST today. I also believe ( based on their questions ) that the Supreme Court will allow those extra votes to be counted anyway, under the principle that EVERY valid vote should be counted. Nice principle, that. Let's use it in Ohio, Florida, New Mexico ....

Look for an early Christmas present for Dems ( and Democracy! ) in Washington State today.

I've already e-mailed our two Dem. Senators asking them to join with Conyers, etc. to contest the validity of the Electoral vote on Jan. 6th (must now call, and hand write ). Basically told them that if they're not standing up for Democracy on the 6th, my family and I are not standing up for their re-election.

[juajen]

93. Yeah, I said the same thing to "Pretty Mary" yesterday in an email

Haven't checked my mail, but am interested in her reply. I have never not voted for her, but I WILL stay home if I don't see some action from her. It's time to be counted. I think the vote was skimmed in Louisiana to get in Vitter and to pad the popular vote.