KERRY TO ENTER OHIO RECOUNT FRAY - here it is

[WilliamPitt]

I hope this lives up to your expectations. Me, I think it is a very big deal.

Triad stuff to follow.

===

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/122404Y.shtml

Kerry to Enter Ohio Recount Fray
By William Rivers Pitt
t r u t h o u t | Report

Thursday 23 December 2004

2004 Democratic Presidential candidate John Kerry will file today, in the United States District Court for the Southern District of Ohio, papers in support of the Green Party/Libertarian Party recount effort. Specifically, Kerry will be filing a request for expedited discovery regarding Triad Systems voting machines, as well as a motion for a preservation order to protect any and all discovery and preserve any evidence on this matter.

Triad Systems has come under scrutiny recently after Sherole Eaton, deputy director of elections for Hocking County, swore out an affidavit in which she described her witnessing the tampering of electronic voting equipment by a Triad representative. Rep. John Conyers, the ranking minority member of the House Judiciary Committee, has requested an investigation into this matter by the FBI and the Hocking County prosecutor.

Truthout will have more on this specific Triad allegation later in the day.

Previously, the Green Party and Libertarian Party has not fared well in their efforts to get emergency orders regarding this matter in Ohio. In order to pass muster with a judge, the individual or group requesting an emergency order for such a recount must show both irreperable harm as well as a substantial chance for success on the merits. While Green and Libertarian representatives have been able to show irreperable harm, they could not establish a substantial chance for success on the merits, because no recount would deliver Ohio to either party.

Kerry's entry into this recount effort changes the math on this matter dramatically. He can likewise show irreperable harm, and unlike the Green and Libertarian candidates, he can also prove a substantial chance for success on the merits because he lost the Ohio vote by a statistical whisker.

...more...

BE SURE TO READ THE LAST PARAGRAPH.

[sabra]

1. THANKS! n/t

[read the law first]

105. Kerry re-intervenes in the re-filed suit.

He might get the expedited hearing. He won't get an order seizing the documents to preserve what the law already requires to be preserved. Now, we'll wait and see.

[davidgmills]

285. Want to help Kerry help Prove he could have won? Re-exit Poll Ohio Now

Here's how. Here's what I have been proposing for several days and first proposed it to Truth is All. I will make a few edits for this post.

.......

TIA:

Your nemises on Mystery Pollster, of course, disagree with your analyses of what the exit polls show and even some who post on DU disagree with you as well.

The fact that there is no scientific, mathematical or statistical consensus on the validity of the exit polls has put the sitaution into a stalemate. It doesn't matter who is right or wrong on the mathematics and statistics at this point, because in order for those of us who might be inclined to take to the streets, a genuine clear and convincing consensus from the scientific, mathematical, and statistical community is needed.

I am a lawyer and have been for 27 years. I look at the situation just like I would if I were appealing a case. In law, there is something called the "harmless error" rule. It is what every lawyer fears who is appealing a case. It assumes there is no such thing as a perfect trial. It essentially says that in order to win on appeal, you must be able to convince the appellate court that there is a really good reason to believe that mistakes or errors made by the judge or jury likely caused the rendition of an improper verdict or decision.

Using this analogy to the present voting situation, if we are to convince the public at large that voting mistakes, error,and/or fraud caused Kerry to lose the election he actually won, we must have a clear and convincing consensus by the mathematical, statistical and scientific communities that such is the case. We simply do not have that now. We face the electoral equivalent of the "harmless error" rule.

But we can quickly fix this problem. I believe such a consensus is possible. How? By re-exit polling Ohio now. I am told by your nemises on Mystery Pollster that it would take the polling of about 16,000 voters in Ohio to achieve the requisite accuracy; such a poll would be so accurate that most scientists, statisticians, and mathematicians could not reasonably disagree with the results. They also believe that such a poll is not that unbearably expensive. I propose using three organizations to do one third of the polling each -- Zogby, Harris, and Gallup -- and have the results of the poll made public immediately.

I have asked MoveOn to help raise the money to fund such a poll. So far, I have not had any response. I believe such a poll would vindicate your work and shut up your critics for good. I believe such a poll is necessary now for the sake of the country and our democracy. Please help me turn this idea into reality.


......


I would point out that such a widely accepted poll, if it showed Kerry won Ohio, might raise some serious Cain for the electoral college. It would be one hell of a monkeywrench in the electoral machine. It could be done in a week. It would also make the Ohio judges take this lawsuit much more seriously. All of a sudden, the case is not just an educational exercise. There is independent proof that the lawsuit really could make a difference in the outcome of the election.

[rzemanfl]

295. Re-exit polling

Congratulations on being a lawyer for 27 years, I did it for 25 then burned out 8 years ago and moved to Pinellas County, Florida where the beaches are great and they lose your ballot at election time. The problem with polling now is there is no way to prove the people polled actually voted unless they are asked personally identifying questions that a lot of folks probably wouldn't want to answer over the phone in today's political climate. What is needed is the real exit poll raw numbers for folks to study and the fact that they are being held back makes me suspicious of what they would show the scholarly folks who study such things.

I also have a Master's Degree in History, suitable for framing, that I earned in middle age. I am pretty confident what history will say about the 2000 and 2004 elections, (at least in free countries) but think we are stuck with Bush for four more years or until the military gets sick of dying for him and stages a coup, whichever occurs first.

John Kerry needs to stand up and be the Senator to challenge the election. What's he got to lose? His wife is rich and he got screwed, he has a house in France. If he bucks up and says he is not going to take it lying down, the media will have to respond to the whole fraud issue even if they do it with a right-wing flavor. Kerry can then be in the Senate every day as a reminder of what we could have had if Bush hadn't cheated. If he sits on his hands he will just be a pathetic Al Gore type creature that no one thinks much of.

Four more years of Bush scares the crap out of me.

[davidgmills]

300. "Harmless error"

Understand the burnout.

This election and this administration burns me out.

Today I heard about the new judge appointments Bush is sending up. The ones who have been rejected already. They just don't quit. They keep coming at you.

I have a Master's in English, that I got before my law degree. Have no idea where that sheepskin is.

But I know you understand my point about "harmless error." All this litigation doesn't mean shit unless you can convince the court that there is a genuine likelihood that Kerry won.

Despite what "Truth is All" says, there is no consensus on the validity of the exit polls.

And all this voter disenfranchisement cannot be reduced to numbers with any degree of certainty. You need sound, concrete evidence that Kerry won or the courts are going to throw up their hands and push themselves away from the bench.

I've been a tort lawyer all this time. It's not enough to prove that a wrong has been committed. You have to prove that the wrong had an impact that should be addressed.

Without really strong scientific proof that Kerry would have won, it reminds me of a case where someone ran a stop sign and there is no proof that anyone got hurt.

[rzemanfl]

303. *

Dubyah is going to ruin the federal bench for two generations.

I agree that the statistical arguments are too obtuse for most folks (including me)to understand, the point is that the "harmless errors" all favor Bush. I view this argument as being for posterity, assuming there is one, not the short term. The validity of the polling won't be determined until well after Bush begins his second term.

Stay in touch, I will look for your posts. I am being moderately flamed in another thread for saying that giving phone cards to the troop so they can call home is doing something the military should be doing itself and counter to our interests.

[davidgmills]

305. odd flame

I'm with you on that one. I say give them all the phone time we can afford. The troups are not our political enemies.

[rzemanfl]

307. I am not sure we are on the same page on this,

what I was saying is that helping to alleviate the misery Bush causes is contrary to our interests, which lie in seeing hatred of Bush on the rise, not applying pallatives to it.

[davidgmills]

333. Bush's war

I have been very anti-war since long before it began. There are many in our military that piss me off -- the Swift Boat vet types and the FOX generals who hyped the war every chance they got. I have little sympathy for the gung ho soldiers who wanted this war. These guys and GWB's neo-cons are serious threats to democracy. They will not get my support at all; to the contrary, I will continue to fight hem. I believe that our military should be run by a department of defense, not offense. Once again, our military brass and it's civilian leadership has seriously lost it's way.

But for the soldiers who didn't want this war and have essentially been drafted to fight a war against their will, those soldiers have my sympathy and support. Even the young ones who really do not understand what war is about have my sympathy and support. I would not mind supporting paying for them to call home.

The problem with it all is that you don't get to pick and choose those you would support and those you would not.

[rzemanfl]

346. When a country starts a war of agression...

folks get all confused and conflicted. We should have invaded Saudi Arabia on September 12, 2001. An attack from a country is an attack by a country. I forget who said that, I'm getting old, it was someone in the Kennedy/Johnson administration. Kerry could have won the election so convincingly it could not have been stolen if he had just said that the day he took office he would declassify the redacted 27 pages of the 9/11 report.

[davidgmills]

349. After 9/11

I became a fairly serious student of the events. And of all the things about 9/11 that bother me, I suppose it is the question, still unanswered to my satisfaction, is "Who were those guys."

It was reported many times on the internet that as many as 7-10 of the named highjackers were still alive. Several who were named, threatened to sue.

One conservative MD, who thought before the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, that it might help the administration to prove a link between al Quida and Saddam, had asked for the autopsy records of flight 77 under the freedom of information act. To his surprise, he got a list of 80 or so people; none were Arabs.

So first things first: "Who were the guys who dunnit." I would just like to have really good bios, and dna evidence if possible, on each one of the perps. You might not be able to get that dna evidence from NY but you should have been able to get it from Washington and Pennsylvania.

[cilla4progress]

351. How about if the communications corp.s CEO's

chip in their obscene gazillions of stock profits, etc., and clear the way for free phone calling, instead of us JohnQ.working classes always being hit up to "donate" to Bush's war?!!!

[zann725]

336. Have you emailed Conyers with this, or Arnebeck, or Zogby? Think he'd be

definitely interested. But we're going to have to move quick.

[davidgmills]

348. Have Not emailed them

I thought I would post it first and get some response from people to get an idea of the downsides. These guys have got plenty to do. The last thing they need is to spend time on a halfbaked idea.

I am not getting much traction on this, so maybe it is not as good an idea as I think. But it makes sense to me. Or maybe my posts have just been buried in the wrong places.

Maybe it should be on the homepage to get enough responses to see if enough people like the idea. But I am new to DU and I doubt I have enough posts to move the idea to the homepage.

[shiina]

2. Thanks! Kick.

[merh]

3. Thanks Will!

:thumbsup:

[Rowdyboy]

4. Good Show!

Lets get rolling!

[mattclearing]

5. Awesome.

This IS a very big deal. And still somewhat under the radar, too.

[Pacifist Patriot]

6. Refreshed your site constantly for about twenty minutes

and just finished reading it. I do think this is significant. Thank you!

[NickiWitch]

THANK YOU!!!!!!

Wonderous news!!!! :bounce:

[wicket]

7. WOO HO!!!!

[WritersBlock]

8. Thank you!! n/t

[diddlysquat]

9. Thank you, thank you!!

Let's hope this works.

[sabra]

10. Kerry has gathered the evidence, and he's ready to fight...

that's my opinion.

[politicasista]

16. Help, what does this mean?

Sorry for the last blunt post.

[sabra]

49. Kerry will be getting involved to a much higher degree...

to me that means, there's enough "evidence" for him to get into the mix "officially"!

[KeireG]

11. yay!

This is indeed huge!

[Kadie]

12. An early Christmas present.

Love it. Thanks Will!

[melissinha]

27. QUESTION will Kerry be THE SENATOR?

Forgive my ignorance, but does this mean that Kerry will be THE SENATOR to back up Conyers and the Black Caucus this time?

Pretty please, this is all I want for Christmas!!!

[WilliamPitt]

30. No, but there are SEVERAL others cooking

Just keep doing what you are doing.

[Nothing Without Hope]

152. Need list of email & snail mail addresses of best bet Senators

I already signed the petition for Senator Boxer, but I want to send emails and paper letters to all the ones that are possibilities. Even to the ones that are not -- maybe they have a conscience down there somewhere.

Is there a good web site for all this contact information?

[crispini]

158. www.congress.org n/t

[Nothing Without Hope]

189. Thanks, Crispini! I'll get to work. Wonder what KO thinks?

It will be interesting to see what our friend Keith Olbermann makes of this. He's been drawing attention to the possible implications of Kerry's ambiguous statements ever since the concession. And in his latest blog entry yesterday, he does perceive how Triad's actions have destroyed any legitimacy of the Ohio recount process:
Both Mr. Kalo and Mr. Whidden spoke highly of Sams, but suggest he missed the point. The Green Party rep notes that Ohio law is specific about the 3% sample that must be hand recounted in each county: it’s supposed to be selected randomly. If the effort is made — either by an election official, or somebody else (like a manufacturer’s rep) — to decide in advance which 3% of the vote is to be recounted, the concept of random selection is thoroughly contaminated and once again, a puff of smoke rises from the entire recount process.

I am REALLY looking forward to hearing what today's new news on Triad is. KO may be on vacation, but he's going to be listening too. And soon he won't be the only media person paying attention to the election fraud -- but he'll still be our favorite.

[crispini]

239. I'm sure we'll hear from him soon.

How could he not at least blog? This is all too tasty for words.

Edit: As is KO! :loveya:

[Nothing Without Hope]

258. Floaty hearts indeed, Crispini. I sent KO an email today

as I'm sure many of us did. But he does go by the volume of mail in part, so duplication isn't a bad thing here.

Will has now posted at TruthOut and on the DU board about a newly revealed Triad-related video. The DU thread is here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x190727

In that thread, someone asks Will if Kerry's filing was made today despite Ohio offices being closed by the heavy weather. He replied that he was trying to find out. So it may not happen today after all. KO can't post about it until it is a matter of record. But he can post about the new stuff on Triad

FYI, since you're a fellow admirer, here's the email I sent to KO this afternoon:

Looking forward to your take on Kerry's move today and the new Triad info
I hope you are enjoying your vacation. I don't know whether you are one of those hyper people who really prefer not to be away from the thick of things, but at least for this holiday season I hope you are.

By now you must have gotten emails about the big announcment by William Pitt on the Democratic Underground board and at Truthout.org: Kerry is getting into the Ohio recount fight and will make a filing today. Will says in his article at TruthOut, which is here:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/122404Y.shtml

that Kerry was finally swayed into action by the pressure from us activists. That may or may not be so, but whatever his motivation I am glad he has finally made his move. On the DU board Will Pitt says that several Senators are "cooking" re coming forward on Jan 6 to challenge the vote. Senator Boxer is the most often mentioned, though Senator Jeffords' name has come up and there must be others.

As you know, Triad is at the epicenter of the new fraud investigation, and Will Pitt says that he will post new news on that investigation later today. This will be posted both at the DU board and at TruthOut, and I don't know what it is as yet.

The fight against the unfairness of the Nov 2 election is finally beginning to gather momentum. I don't think you will long be the only media personality that is paying attention to the elephants in the room: election fraud and racist voter suppression. But you have built a loyal following and we will be continuing to watch eagerly for your reports. Thank you for your honesty, courage and hard work, and that goes for your staff as well. It has made a difference. If it's true that Kerry was moved by the pleas of the activists, then the fact that you helped keep our spirits and hopes alive must have counted too. I'm grateful in any case.

Best,
xxxxxxxx
"Nothing Without Hope" on the DU board

[Zan_of_Texas]

199. Here are two overlapping lists of US Senators to contact

Pick your favorites.

Seven Senators:

> Senator Barbara Boxer, [phone],
> [e-mail]
>
> Senator Dick Durbin, [phone],
> [e-mail]
>
> Senator Russ Feingold, [phone],
> [e-mail]
>
> Senator Tom Harkin, [phone],
> [e-mail]
>
> Senator Jim Jeffords, [phone],
> [e-mail]
>
> Senator Edward Kennedy, 202/224-4543,
> [e-mail]
>
> Senator Patrick Leahy, [phone],
> [e-mail]


Ten Senators:

1. Barbara Boxer

San Francisco
1700 Montgomery Street, Suite 240
San Francisco, CA 94111
[phone]
[phone] fax

Washington D.C.
112 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510
[phone]


2. Robert Graham

Washington, DC

524 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Phone [phone]
Fax [phone]

Tallahassee

2252 Killearn Center Boulevard, Suite 300
Tallahassee, Florida 32309
Phone [phone]
TDD 850-894-2882
Fax [phone]
Toll Free 866-418-9569

*
email: http://graham.senate.gov/email.html


3. Edward Kennedy
http://kennedy.senate.gov/index_low.html
315 Russell Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510

202/224-4543

2400 JFK Building
Boston, MA 02203
617/565-3170


4. Robert C. Byrd
311 Hart Building
Washington DC
202-224-3954

300 Virginia St. East, Suite 2630
Charleston, WV 2530
304-342-5855 phone
304-343-7144 Fax

email
http://byrd.senate.gov/byrd_email.html



5. Joseph Biden

Wilmington
1105 N. Market St.
Suite 2000
Wilmington, DE 19801-1233

Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

201 Russell Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510

Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
TDD: 202-224-5652
E-mail: [e-mail]


6. Barbara A. Mikulski (MD)
The Honorable Barbara A. Mikulski
Suite 709
Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510
[phone]

Baltimore Office
Brown's Wharf
1629 Thames Street
Suite 400
Baltimore, Maryland 21231
410-962-4510 (phone)
410-962-4760 (fax)
410-962-4512 (TDD)


7. Jim Jeffords

Washington, D.C. Staff

413 Dirksen Senate Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20510
[phone]

Montpelier
453 Stone Cutters Way
Suite 1
Montpelier, VT 05602
[phone]
[phone] (Only in Vermont)

Email:
http://jeffords.senate.gov/contact-form.html


8. Patrick Leathy
Washington office
433 Russell Senate Office Bldg
(at Constitution and Delaware)
United States Senate
Washington, DC 20510
[phone]

Burlington office
199 Main Street, 4th Floor
Burlington, VT 05401
[phone]
1-800-642-3193

[e-mail]


9. Russ Feingold
Middleton
1600 Aspen Commons
Middleton, WI 53562-4716
[phone]
TDD [phone]
Washington, DC
506 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510-4904
[phone]
TDD [phone]

Email:[e-mail]
http://feingold.senate.gov/contact.html



10. Richard J. Durbin

Washington, DC
332 Dirksen Senate
Office Bldg.
Washington, DC 20510
[phone]
[phone] - fax

Chicago
230 South Dearborn St.
Suite 3892
Chicago, IL 60604
[phone]
[phone] - fax

Email:
http://durbin.senate.gov/sitepages/contact.cfm

[s-cubed]

290. thanks

[Jo March]

312. Thank you so much!

My printer will be cranking!!!

[noclonyofthechimp]

214. Barbara Boxer is seriously considering joining Conyers. Our efforts

are coming to fruition. I posted this yesterday. It's a letter I got from "Contest the Vote." I think it will bring some more encouraging news. Thanks Will, for all that you do and have a safe and wonderful Christmas.

Dear ****,

Thanks again for signing our petition at www.ContestTheVote.org!

This week we have reached three significant milestones.

1. On November 17, 2004, we received our 10,000th signature on the online petition (more than 14,000 now) and have over 1,000 signatures on the hard copy petitions.

2. There has been much interest from across the country, so we decided to go national and extended the deadline for the petition due date to December 31, 2004. Each senator will now receive petitions with the signatures from his or her constituents. Additionally, we will forward all of the signed petitions to the U.S. House Committee on the Judiciary to encourage them to hold formal hearings on the election irregularities.

3. Four members of Contest the Vote went to Los Angeles on 12/15/04 and asked Senator Barbara Boxer (D-CA) to join with Representative John Conyers (D-MI) and others in contesting the official electoral vote count on 01/06/05. Though she has not yet firmly decided to join Representative Conyers, she gave us every indication that she is seriously considering this matter and is consulting with the representatives from Ohio.

Her State Director, Tom Bohegian, spent a considerable amount of time with us over dinner answering our questions and reviewing this serious matter. He indicated that he would be sharing points from our in-depth conversation with Senator Boxer. We indicated to him that the numbers of signatures were increasing daily and would soon top 10,000. We advised him to inspect our website, www.ContestTheVote.org, for the latest information on this.

Our website has been updated to include a FAQ page and more links to other election related websites and organizations.

With your help we can hit 100,000 by the weekend! Please re-visit www.ContestTheVote.org and forward our example email by clicking the "Tell Others" button. It's easy, and within a few minutes you can empty your address book and save Democracy!

Have fun spreading the word. Print out our ContestTheVote.org bookmarks, take them to your local book stores or other fun place, and put a bookmark in any book or spot you see fit. Be creative. It's a great bit of activism that ties in with holiday shopping.

Continue to reach out to organizations, friends and affiliates. The response has been fantastic. Call in to a radio station. Send a letter to the editor. Don't forget to mention www.ContestTheVote.org!

Thanks!
Sincerely,

Maegan Prentice
Volunteer
Contest The Vote
[e-mail]

[marieaey]

256. Will you made our day!!!!!!!!! Kerry Christmas!

Thanks for the info. It made for a well needed boost!

best wishes marie

[NV Whino]

110. Possibly... probably Boxer

It would be "unpolitic" for Kerry to do it.

[Clark2008]

165. It would look very self-serving

Personally, I hope more than one senator has the cajones (or ovaries) to stand up and be counted.

Thanks for this news Will. I've already posted it around to several other blogs.

[Amy6627]

322. If he doesn't

I will lose what respect I have for him. I think ALL Dems should stand up, but if none do, I will no longer be a Dem and I don't think any Black American should be one either. If Dems don't stand up for us and especially for the all the Blacks that were dis-enfranchised, Dem are no better than Rep.

[VTGold]

13. Come one Kerry!!! We NEEEEED to see you!!

[Pithy Cherub]

14. Thank You

It's all the way live - now you have Kerry who can prove he was irreparably harmed entering the fray! :bounce:

[davidlynch]

Good Enough For Me, Thanks William n/t

[genieroze]

15. We have lift off. eom

[cyn2]

17. TruthOut beat Raw Story! Congrats! n/t

[rawstory]

Well :)

Our source told us they felt they needed to spread the wealth around ;).

[bleever]

73. Props to rawstory too!

[Patsy Stone]

18. Ahhh. Just what I was hoping for!

Merry Christmas to you, WRP.
And to you JK: Thanks for turning that damn boat into the enemy!
Peace.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

19. Thanks, Will!

OK, gang, you KNOW Kerry is going in because he has the evidence. It might be a very fun holiday season. :-)

[Stew225]

39. As cynical and depressed as I have been,

I am still very heartened and happy to hear this news! Thanks, Will!

[hangloose]

20. Significant development I wonder if the mainstream slugs will

even mention this today? Thank you Will

[Kota]

21. Good news Will. Kerry's entry into this should get the

rest of the media paying more attention to. They should follow your lead, you are doing great work.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

22. This is Fantastic and About Time! Whew........... :)

[ClassWarrior]

23. Sweeeeeeeeeeet...

Never Give Up.

[WilliamPitt]

24. BE SURE TO READ THE LAST PARAGRAPH.

[burned]

46. the last was the best

the root!

[Kevin Spidel]

84. CONTINUE TO TAKE ACTION

WE are at 45,000 emails to senators, which included Kerry at first. We know that the staff of these targeted senators are asking around about the facts behind this issue. now. We need to double the numbers of this action. PLEASE TAKE ACTION! www.pdamerica.org for the action alert!

[pointsoflight]

93. Second this. Keep on asking our senators for help!!! n/t

[keepthemhonest]

177. done again and sent to 9 friends

sorry wish I had more. I think I have sent letters from that site aobut 2-3 times a week on average.

[berni_mccoy]

25. What's the point? It's good news...

But what is the point of a recount... there's not enough time to get it done before Jan 6?

IMHO, it's too little too late...

I, as much as anyone, want to see Bush out, but even our best chance at success, the Arnebeck law-suit, is being red-taped into pointlessness by the Ohio Chief Justice.

[MissBrooks]

125. Too late....? ...!

I don't think this news is anything more than hype.
If Kerry really wanted to win - he would have been in OH earlier. Remember how hard Gore faught?

I'm so disappointed! I'm cancelling my reservations for Washington, DC for the Inauguration.

It's gonna be Bush, again.

[New Earth]

128. good for you

go put your head in your hands and cry.

[John Q. Citizen]

145. MB, I feel so sorry for you.

All dressed up and no place to go!

[EC]

175. What's the point? Ever

hear of criminal charges? Impeachment? This may be the thing that makes the other Repukes want to distance themselves...like with Nixon, Nixon wouldn't have quit if the rest of his party hadn't told him to and stopped backing him...

[me b zola]

206. Pointless??

It's the IMPEACHMENT, silly

[me b zola]

209. Pointless?

The beginning of the fall of B*shco.
Ah, impeachment has such a nice ring to it.

[Boredtodeath]

26. Yes, it is a VERY big deal

and a great deal more than I expected from John Kerry.

Finally.

I won't give him anything for waiting while others found the proof. But I'll give him credit for finally stepping up to the plate and taking the reins when we could lose it all if he didn't.

Can you tell us where John Edwards is in this? Perhaps he'll work on the legal team? I can't imagine a better place for him as he concludes his term in the Senate.

[roenyc]

28. does this mean he un-concedes?

and is that a real word? or am i getting so used to having bush in the white house i have forgotten how to use real words.

Whatever it is, its wonderful news I just wish someone on TV would talk about it.

[mattclearing]

52. I think he's still trying to avoid that.

For whatever reason, he is still trying to keep the national media from running wild with it.

Discovery would be difficult tripping over obnoxious reporters, wouldn't it?

[Mistwell]

64. Slow down

"It should be noted that Kerry's filing of these requests does not indicate his complete entry into the recount process, but does clearly indicate that he is moving decisively in that direction."

I think it is very obvious from that article that Kerry is not unconceding. At least, not right now.

[Truman01]

87. No because the concession at this point is unimportant.....

I will be very interested to see this suit. The EC vote has taken place and Kerry's concession carried no legal weight anyway; in other words had the recount shown Ohio in his favor it would have changed the result without any action from Kerry.

TC

[Wabbajack]

29. This is great and all

but you realize nothing short of armed revolution is getting bush out of power. :(

pukes have all the trump cards, congress which will decide the election if there is a challenge, US Sup Court, Ohio Sup Court

[JaneDoughnut]

43. Oh, quit being a bummer.

It's the holidays and this is great news. After all, if we really wanted to contest the election results, it would be worthless without Kerry's support and cooperation. Thank you, John Kerry! Again!

[Wabbajack]

66. Sorry

But I'm a realist. Bush will not be vacating the white house. Either it will be like last time and everybody will just bend over and take it or else there're will be massive civil unrest possibly leading to civil war and America will be changed forever. Happy holidays! :(

[JohnOneillsMemory]

154. Realism is what we need to survive! Nixon was ushered away for screwing up

so badly handling the public's outrage over the CIA's second 'Bay of Pigs' disaster called 'The Vietnam War' and not being able to provide the PR front for fascism required to maintain it in the naive American public's mind. The wolves in the White House today learned from Nixon's mistakes domestically but not internationally.

If public opinion turns against the Bush*-fronted neocons so badly that they can't get troops with that 'Freedom is on the March' crap, the power structure's media-carnies WILL let a new clown into the center ring to keep'em comin' into the tent under a big sign that says
'UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT-NEW! IMPROVED! 50% LESS TORTURE!.'

Kerry may yet get anointed the new clown-king. And then we can only hope he's willing to change the show to include less destruction of the planet.

I think it was Austin Powers who said 'carnie-folk scare me.' Me, too.

[Old Mouse]

293. Don't ever be sorry

for having an opinion! Don't even say it.

You are, of course correct. They can't vacate willingly - They have gone too far, at this point losing the White House is a ticket to prison, possibly even death row.

But everyone here celebrates the current victory. Another of the small cuts necessary to change public opinion.

[zann725]

341. Big-time negative! You need to visit the "I Believe" thread...

n/t

[roenyc]

70. This is big, and it will bring attention to the matter of

Fraud. they cant look away and say we are crazy or tin hat wearers or whatever anymore. who knows what Kerry was doing behind the scenes.

i am happy is backing them up now. its time. and a fight will ensue. and Bush loses his make believe retarded man date!

lets see him smirk he way to his impeachment cause if he does get his coronation in Jan. he will be impeached shortly. he is going down. one way or another.

there is only so much a republican who wants a future in this country will put up with. now that they know there was NO MANDATE of a gazillion voters voting for his majesty. and the next election will have to be earned not stolen.

[Wabbajack]

193. Let's say his own repuke congress does impeach him

which I doubt. Rather they'll through foxnews declare that the "liebruls" invented evidence of fraud and half the people will believe them.

But say they do impeach him and Cheney too. Then we have President Hastert!! Big woop. I have family in his district, he's just DeLay's front man. He'd be better than Bush I guess but the fascists control nearly the entire GOP now and I don't see them giving up without a fight and by fight I mean with guns and stuff. And I don't know if the American people are up to that.

Sorry to be a downer, I'll shup up now. I just think we're deluding ourselves here.

If only we'd gotten our act together and prevented bush from stealing it in 2000.

[muse]

127. Even if it is too little too late for this election,

something has got to be done about what went on in Ohio (and elsewhere). Realistically, there is a very short time period between Nov. 2nd and when the Electoral College meets and then when the inauguration takes place. That is a very short time frame to gather legal evidence and make a case. Obviously, the most wonderful thing that could happen would be for the election to be overturned, but the big picture is that we have got to get the election fraud issues under control before the 2008 presidential election. I am already worried sick about that. We did NOT take care of business after the 2000 debacle. It's been crystal clear to me that Kerry is the one that is going to have to lead on that issue.

[ginnyinWI]

166. what Kerry and others may have in mind, indeed, is

to pave the way for fair and honest elections in 2008. It does seem more realistic and do-able, no matter how badly we'd want this "election" to be overturned. Emotionally, we want it now! But rationally, it might take some time to uncover all the dirt and then convince the public.

[New Earth]

176. i disagree

it's about now. 2008 doesn't exist until this is over.

[Bill ORights]

246. The next election

isn't 2008, it's 2006. That one's even more important for getting a constitutional gov't back, especially if *it keeps his throne. We're totally screwed if the Repugs keep control of everything. Part of taking care of business should be working for progressive, or at least dem reps and senators.

[mzmolly]

151. Yes, but it will cast a huge doubt on his "mandate" bullshit.

And, it will encourage US to keep up the fight.

All good things.

[zann725]

339. "Obstacles are what you see when you take your eyes off the goal."

n/t

[meganmonkey]

31. And the momentum picks up!

:bounce:

[MissBrooks]

32. That's IT?

I thought it would be a WHOLE lot more than this.

I'm disappointed.

[New Earth]

47. omg

please! that is a big step! what the hell were you expecting?

[MissBrooks]

86. This should have happened November 3rd - not December 23rd!

It just took so long for something to happen....

[seito]

99. Well...

It sure help to have EVIDENCE if you are going to file a lawsuit. Of course, I am not a lawyer. lol!!!

[John Q. Citizen]

136. MissBrooks, I know you have come to expect instant gratification

about your concerns. However, that's not how the real world always works.

Patients is one virtue America apparently didn't vote for.

[MissBrooks]

Patience?

27 days before the Inauguration!

THAT'S IT!

We have NO MORE TIME to get this done!

Dean 2008!

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

186. Do take a pill, Dearie.

Legal actions like this take real time, before you can move ahead. Judges do not take kindly to anecdotes and suppositions.

[pacalo]

169. If Kerry had acted November 3rd, it would have gone directly to

Scalia's SCOTUS. Kerry was smart not to take it in that direction. Having the corruption exposed & unfolded on the state level gives Kerry more options. Plus, by the time all the evidence is gathered, the corruption will be hard to dispute; if Kerry has to go all the way to Scalia's SCOTUS, Kerry will be in a much better position.

[nashville_brook]

146. woohoo! great news!

and just to makes things sweeter -- we are iced-in in nashville!

[mzmolly]

155. The great swami's predicted such a post.

:P

Confucious also say many post like this to follow. ;)

[KittyWampus]

195. Hmm, Why Do You Feel A Need To Drop A Load Of Negativity TWICE

in one thread?

[MissBrooks]

286. I was responding...

I was responding to someone else's post.

I'll stop and let you go on with your celebration.

[yojon]

33. Great news!

Yipppeeee! :hug: Maybe he was just biding his time waiting for the right time to jump!

[liam97]

94. Getting Triad

is the best entry point for discovery - they control the tabulators

[mopinko]

34. it's alive! it's alive!! nt

[Acryliccalico]

102. Thank you

:kick:

[Career Prole]

35. Thanks, Will! Thanks, JK! n/t

[loudsue]

36. "Democratic Party is also quietly putting financial resources into the Ohi

"Democratic Party is also quietly putting financial resources into the Ohio recount effort."

:bounce: Oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy!!!! :bounce:

Thanks, Will!!! :hi: THIS is the news I've been wanting to hear!!!

OK, DUers! Let's get behind ALL the Dems in the Senate who will stand behind contesting the votes!!

:kick::kick::kick:

[muse]

120. Good, because some of that money is mine.

And yours, right? I'm talking about the mega-bucks I sent them time and time again during the campaign. The leftovers from that.

[corbett]

267. Mine, Too!

I gave gladly (at an amount well below yours, I'm sure) and contributed even more time. Nevertheless, I've wondered about Kerry's remaining $15 million. Now I know that it's for the challenges in Columbus, Olympia, Tallahassee and Washington.

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=4816

[pacalo]

171. Note the word "quietly"...

There is a strategy behind all of this. :)

[KingoftheJungle]

A little too late, Kerry

The machines have already been fixed and there ain't a damn thing impounding them is gonna prove other than he should have done this weeks ago. A nice gesture, though.

[politicasista]

77. Sorry you are not pleased

He was probably gathering evidence.

[KingoftheJungle]

208. I am pleased

But only because this will add a ton of weight to the snowball that is heading for washington as we speak.

[KingoftheJungle]

211. I am

But only because this will add a ton of weight to the snowball that is heading for washington as we speak.

[anamandujano]

37. Go baby go!!!

[MARALE]

38. I do believe in Kerry,

I do believe in Kerry, I do, I do, I do belive in Kerry!
O8)

:yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock:

[progressoid]

40. OK, who will post this at Freeperland so they can have a shitty XMAS!!

[Terre]

60. They'll do it themselves

doncha know?

[crispini]

61. I'm sure they've already got it! n/t

[MissBrooks]

113. Damn Freepers!

[mcscajun]

69. Oh, I imagine one of their lurkers here is already on it...

...so they can carp and whine about us 'libruls' trying to steal an election.

[meganmonkey]

89. I just checked their thread about the heads up from Will

And not only is it posted there already, they quoted you! Congrats ;)

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1306971/posts?q=1&&page=51

[progressoid]

100. Yea!!! Happy Festivus!!! . . . n/t

[Andrea]

252. Those people are sick

Wow. I'm a newbie here. I just checked that freeper link. I'd never looked at their stuff before. What a sick bunch! Nothing thoughtful to say, no reasoned opinions, nothing but gloating and name-calling. It's really disturbing. They need help.

[ailsagirl]

311. They do... that's why I give them WIDE berth

BAD vibes

[Chi]

134. And here it is at FreeperLand

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1307389/posts

[pacalo]

174. They get their rocks off by reading our posts, you know.

If they really thought their leader was all that, they'd spend more time discussing him. They spend more time here than they do in learning more about why their leader is the worst president in U.S. history. Deep inside they must know that, or they wouldn't be spending so much time wondering what we're saying.

[NVMojo]

304. Freepers bore themeelves. That's why they come over here from the

dark place they keep their heads ....

[pacalo]

332. Their only focus seems to be in "the competition"...

They're so caught up in defending Bushitler in a "he said/she said" way that they don't take time to step back & read up about the idiot-in-chief. The only thing they're concerned with is reading Democratic boards in order to refute what is said. And I truly think it's pathetic that they use their time that way when they should be enlisting in the military to fight this illegal, immoral war that they love so much. The military is desperately understaffed, & they could be giving some relief to the over-extended, under-protected National Guard.

[seito]

41. Thanks Will,

Good enough for me, especially if he sends us another one of those underground videos complete with cryptic message :loveya:

[smartvoter]

42. Hey, Hell is freezing over! nt

[elare]

126. Hell is freezing over

and with a wind chill temp of -37, it certainly FEELS like hell must be freezing over!

[Vanje]

44. FRONT PAGE!

Now I can start Christmas!

[sepia_steel]

45. Made my day!

Just what I needed. Thanks, Will!!

[bunny planet]

63. Wow!

:kick: :kick: :kick:

[maryallen]

48. It's a start ...

Will, please use what influence you have with Kerry to encourage him to make a more visual appearance. Win, lose, or draw, it can only help the cause.

[Cyclical]

50. YES!!!

THE COWARDLY LION FOUND HIS COURAGE!!! And I mean that in a nice way.

I hereby do rescind all of the unpleasant things I've said about him. So far, the timeline I've seen here has panned out: He waited for a case to build, let the Glibs be the cannon fodder (sorry guys!) for the MSM's "Sore Loser" flak, and now that the case has some weight, the man steps in and neatly begins swinging.

Man, I really hope the rest of those timeframe things were right, depicting Kerry celebrating Valentine's Day in the White House.

Hey, here's a thought. You think Dubya will still go through with the "Imperial Coronation" (a.k.a. "most elaborate/expensive ceremony for a swearing-in in American history") that he's got planned, even while his platform collapses under him?

I guarantee, he gets remembered as the second Emperor Nero - fiddling and piddling while America burned!

[Nothing Without Hope]

I think the GLibs were more than cannon fodder.

I think the top ones were probably in on it from the start, though they would have to keep it quiet.

Even if not, we have a much clearer idea of who Cobb is now. Except among his own party, he was pretty obscure before. I think it was a boost for them. And he sure has my gratitude and respect for what he did in Ohio.

[gumby]

51. "Irreperable harm"

HA!!!!! Goose, gander. Pot, kettle.

[madison2000]

210. actually its spelled irreparable

[valis]

53. And now what?... I mean, why not earlier? Sorry, waiting to hear more....

[BUSHOUT]

326. "Now what" is different than "why not earlier".

[crispini]

54. I'll take that. Very tasty.

And the last paragraph is GREAT. Woo hoo, GO US!

[Chili]

55. Thank you!

And MERRY CHRISTMAS to you too!!!

[jmatthan]

56. Why is Kerry being dragged kicking and screaming

into this process.

In Ukraine, if the opposition candidate had not stood up there in front of his supporters would not have been any protest, etc., and certainly no re-vote process.

Is it any wonder that the American mainstream buried this story as Kerry just keeled over!!

Does Kerry not understand that he will never again be considered as a candidate for ANY election if he does not fight to win this one!!

Also, he has collected a great desal of money from the public stating that every vote would be counted and every vote would count. How can he expect others, without the rtesources he has to buiuld the case for him?

In my opinion - it is gross breach of trust.

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland

[Ripley]

72. Hi Jacob.

A lot of us US citizens are wondering the very same thing. Thank you for your Finnish perspective.

[Truthbeknown]

111. I agree-he needs to un-concede

and get his face out there.He can put pressure on the MSM to turn over their exit poll data.

[KittyWampus]

204. #1 Legally, The Injured Party Are Ohio Democrats With Lost Votes

In 2000 election BUSH was the one who brought suit to the Supreme Court and had NO RIGHT to file his suit against Gore. BUSH was not the injured party. The SCOTUS should have never taken that suit and that's why they stated their ruling shouldn't be used as precident.

By allowing grassroots activists to take the lead... it is obvious that this case now has LEGAL MERIT... for now and FOR PROSPERITY.


#2. Cause KERRY would be the Story & not FRAUD. The Media would crucify him... the way they did Gore.

Label him a sore loser and ridicule him.

Too many Americans have almost no capacity for critical thinking and would simply buy the lies told by the Media.

Also, if Kerry had intervened earlier it most likely would have gone immediately to the Stacked Supreme Court.

No discovery would have happened.

[IndyPriest]

268. Cryingshame, if I ever need a political consultant, I'm calling YOU!

VERY good.

[jmatthan]

308. That does not explain why

Kerry did not, from day 1, say that he did not trust the results, start the legal investigation process, get his supporters invoLved in protesting the results, and stand for a democratic set up.

He was warned about the situation well before the election. He chose to ignore it - hardly Presidential material!!

How come he said nothing about the exit poll data?

Why did he not call for them to be released?

There are hundreds of things he should have done publicly, especially since the international observers had questioned the issues of the election.

With Kerry cenceding almost immediately the report of the international observers got buried!!

Sorry, but I cannot agree with inaction when an election is stolen, and you need to activate your voter base and do justice to them.

To hell with the media as they called the election in Bush's favour by freeping the exit polls.

Jacob Matthan
oulu, Finland

[rdmccur]

356. It please me to see people

from other nations this upset about what happened in our election.
Unfortunately I believe a large portion of the American voting public
(how large?) is not very analytical nor is even aware of many things that remain unpublished except by their local TV (or radio) stations or local newspapers. Many Americans are mentally lazy and comfortable; so reticent to think very hard or take an action which they perceive as nonconforming. There's certainly a variation demographically (for instance I believe people who live in some areas of the nation are more likely to be better informed, etc.).
Also Kerry was burned in the Reagan era because of his efforts investigating the Iran-Contra affair. He may just be exercising due caution. And we have seen how vindictive this administration can be!
Keep your thoughts coming.

[TexasChick]

57. I found this sentence very interesting....

The Democratic Party is also quietly putting financial resources into the Ohio recount effort.

[SueZhope]

65. I actually guessed that part

and posted that on another thread.

[righteous1]

58. Is this essentially what he did when he interceded

in Delaware county? By adding his name to the suit he becomes the "hurt" party

[bear425]

59. Excellent work - thank you! n/t

[mslux]

62. Thanks for the Christmas present,

the best Christmas present even a Jew could ask for.

[sabra]

71. I was just going to thank him for the belated Channuka present :-)

[bunny planet]

79. Have a Kerry, Kerry Christmas!!!!

[FogerRox]

292. LOL but we're all brothers and sisters anyway

Get your signs ready be prepared to hit the streets.

http://www.51capitalmarch.com /


[e-mail]

[VTGold]

67. Thank you Will - without people like you, we'd be lost in the dark. Cheers

[SmokingJacket]

68. Thanks for the present, Will.

Sorry I don't have one for you. ;-)

This is going to get ugly, and I for one will relish it.

[roenyc]

95. it needs to get ugly

its the only way karl rove knows how to play. he has been play that way his entire life. he always wins. time he loses. no one wins forever. everyones luck runs out. times they are a changin! i love dylan.

[GetTheRightVote]

74. Finally, Kerry is stepping up to the plate, I hope it means a grand slam

is on the way for us all, Democracy has yet a chance to live in our country. I do not care if it is screaming, kicking, yelling, etc. We need him to bring the real strength to this battle. He is the candidate we voted for and let us now back up those votes with support of him in our shared fight for every vote to count in a TRUE Democracy which we desire above all things.

Thank you Will for playing Santa Claus this year, we truly just love you.

:grouphug:

[ElementaryPenguin]

75. Come on, Kerry! The court of PUBLIC OPINION is where we must also

Prevail!!!

I soooo want to believe there's always been a viable plan in the Kerry camp! I could never believe that a guy with Kerry's meddle could just walk away from a crime of this magnitude!

[livvy]

76. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!

This is the best news I've heard in a very long time. I will be smiling all day!:D Thanks for the good news, Mr. Pitt, and thank you Senator Kerry! This makes remaining on duty well worth it! :bounce: :bounce:

[DancingBear]

78. Hey, it seems as if all the "high-post" folks are happy!!!

Why is that?? :) :)

(oops - sorry - bad DancingBear) :) :)

Thank you, John.

[livvy]

139. The number of a person's posts are not indicative of the amount

of work they've done in support of this effort, nor the amount of pleasure they might sense to see their hard work have some effect! Peace!O8)

[DancingBear]

173. I meant no harm to low-post folks

It was just a kind of tongue-in-cheek response in regard to stuff that happens around here whenever we get great news.

We sometimes get company. :)

Peace to you as well.

[goclark]

178. Welcome to Du!

High posts, low posts let's all be happy!

Finally, we see a ray of sunshine!!!

We deserve a break today.

Our country deserves a break for the next four years and beyond.

Whatever it takes to get these crooks to understand that we need to be the model for all that is good and all that is just in the world.

Kerry Kissmas!:toast:

[livvy]

188. I'll toast to that and thanks for the welcome!

:toast:

[Terre]

80. Thanks Will

Now I'm dying to read the suit after it's been filed.

Anyone know the link to the District Court page so I can refresh like crazy, assuming they post it?

[Nothing Without Hope]

81. Thanks Will !!!!! I'm encouraged by this final paragraph

in the piece:
  Perhaps the most significant aspect of all this, from the activist point of view, has been the effectiveness of the telephone calls and letters to Kerry. The activist push to get him involved had a very significant effect on his decision to enter this effort. Likewise, calls to other Senators in order to convince them to join House members in challenging the election have likewise had significant effect. If such an effort continues, the activists involved will very likely see the desired result unfold.

Looks like there won't be a repeat of that scene with the Congressional Black Caucus in Fahrenheit 9/11 after all.

Kerry will still be a senator on Jan 6. Can he be "the one," or is there some law to prevent his standing for himself in the election challenge? I've never heard of any, and it would be lovely to see him take the lead in the fight. * in a flight suit or a dictator jacket wouldn't hold a candle to Kerry in a real fight!

[WilliamPitt]

97. I am told

that it is that F/911 scene specifically that is motivating several Senators. That, and the phone calls.

[troubleinwinter]

107. Then we owe a big one to Michael Moore!

:toast:

[Catherine Vincent]

109. Yes, and it was a pitiful sight to see!

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

122. I cannot watch that and keep my eyes dry. I had no idea that happened....

Thanks Will for keeping us updated, and for all the work that you're doing!

[pointsoflight]

131. Important action: Keep reminding them of this!

Gather the information, then make those calls and send those letters!

Video of African American voter suppression and disenfranchisement:
http://www.thefreespeechzone.net/

Some diaries documenting the suppression:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/12/22/143719/67
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/12/15/12545/041

Some very strong words from one of our African American sisters:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/12/15/9734/4841

[Oversea Visitor]

137. you mean

www.pentagonstrike.co.uk

[Nothing Without Hope]

226. Can you suggest who besides Boxer we should concentrate on?

A top 10 list of Senators to concentrate our efforts on would be helpful. Though I still hope that, as in Watergate, Republicans of integrity will find their conscience.

And can you estimate when your newTriad report will be posted?

Thanks for the thousandth time, Will. Looks like the course of events has opened a spot that called for someone special to fill it, someone to get and spread the word to the people who were waiting for it, and you stepped forward.

[jmatthan]

310. Boxer refused

I heard on the Thom Hartmann show that as yet they had not found a single Senator to come forward on january 6th.

Kerry will not as he is an intereted party. Boxer has refused!!

I believe hopes are resting on Bird.

Why are Democratic Senators unable to come forward. Do they not have any connection to the base of the party and the feelings among those whpo lost their vote!!

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland

[Der Blaue Engel]

330. Where did you get the idea that Boxer has refused?

Can you post a link to verify this?

Thanks.

[jmatthan]

354. Listen to the archived

Thom Hartmann programme for yesterday (Thursday - I think).

Jacob Matthan
Oulu, Finland

[huckleberry]

82. Thanks Will!

It's an honor to be a part of this wonderful forum. I feel energized now and will begin writing letters, making phone calls, etc.

Yay!!!

[Karenca]

83. Thank you Will--

I can now finally step away from the computer for a few moments,
shower,
make coffee
and start my day with a more hopeful outlook than yesterday....

Thank you!

[KyndCulture]

85. He just put on his helmet and came off the bench!

GAME ON!

I guess hell really did freeze over this morning and I'll be eating my words with lunch today.

[rox63]

88. Thank you WRP!! Thank you JK!!

My holiday is looking brighter already!!

:bounce: :toast: :party: :kick: :loveya: :grouphug: :pals: :yourock:

[Rainbowreflect]

90. Thank you Will & Kerry.

May be a Merry Christmas after all.

[bettyellen]

91. Thank you Will! + tks for the pat on the back with the last paragraph too!

[Withywindle]

92. Cue the "Hallujah" chorus...

Thank you, William, thank you!!!!

[hlthe2b]

96. spelling correction, Will: IRREPARABLE

Great news, though!

[pilgrimsoul]

144. Kerry Christmas, everybody!!!

I was so hoping this would happen. IMHO, the Kerry camp's timing has been nothing short of brilliant. By stepping in now instead of weeks ago, Kerry has preemptively neutralized the accusation that he's only doing this to overturn the election. His decision to wait for the Ohio election frauditeers to FUBAR their cover-up of the fraud before pouncing gives him *instant* credibility. Kerry's style is not that of a grandstander. He is not your typical political bullshit artist -- he's thoughtful and reserved and not taken to emotional manipulation to get his message across. If he now starts talking to the press about the evidence that has been uncovered, people will pay attention and believe what he says. And the MSM now will HAVE to start putting the spotlight on those who have committed the fraud. I'm going to enjoy watching the roaches scurry for cover. Turn up the heat on those treasonous fraudsters!!!

When the press really digs into this story, the marked contrast between the calm, reasoned and straightforward of the Kerry people and the hysterical, panicked, evasive rantings of the B* camp and Ohio fraudsters will register with the American people. The momentum is building, friends -- January 6 will be a historic day. Kerry on!!!!

[McCamy Taylor]

98. Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

[seabeyond]

101. he did this at least one other time, to nothing. press conference

he needs to speak out instead of just a piece of paper with his name added on..............and respectfully imho, only.

there is no weight in just adding his name from what i see the last time he did it

[lonestarnot]

114. Irreparable harm demonstrations is a BIG DEAL...

[John Q. Citizen]

164. And a chance of success is even bigger! It gives the suit two legs,

and anyone who has bought a one legged suit knows what I mean! :)

[politicasista]

124. I want him to speak to us as well

I guess we are never satisfied.

[seabeyond]

143. not a matter of being satisfied

i didnt see anything come of the last time he used harsh word in document. why should i get excited now. we will see if this does anything, i can only go off the past and what will be. not seeing anyone hopping all over it

[FtWayneBlue]

103. Kudos to Kerry

I'm going out to put his sign back up in my yard.

Merry Christmas, All!

[Catherine Vincent]

104. Cool!

Time to email those senators again!

[lonestarnot]

106. Yeppy Doodle!

Better standing than the Greens for irreparable harm indeedie!

[lonestarnot]

108. Tanks william dotell!

[hangemhigh]

112. Ruh Roh, Time for a Terra Alert! nt

[lakercub]

115. My best possible Christmas

1. Ohio fraud becomes clear to even the MSM.
2. A recount is done, but not just a recount. Someone needs to actually get in the guts of the voting machines, including their code and firmware, to figure out exactly what the machines are doing.
3. Voting machine companies are found to be in cahoots with the Republican Party.
4. Voting machine manufacturers admit their crimes and implicate members of the president's staff.
5. President's staff, refusing to fall on their swords, point the finger of blame at Bush/Cheney.
6. Bush/Cheney led from the White House in irons without time to shred their docs.
7. Paperwork proving their crimes in Iraq, the oil industry, they environment, and the election come to light.
8. Bush family and republican party are permanently disgraced.

Ahhhh......wishful holiday thinking :) I need to stay away from the eggnog.

[Der Blaue Engel]

218. I like your Christmas, lakercub!

:thumbsup: Pass that nog over here!

:toast:

[Truman01]

116. I don't suppose there is a link to the actual papers filed....

Someone help me out here. Arnebeck doesn't represent either the Greens or the Libertarians. David Cobb, Green party filed a suit in the Federal Court? What action is Kerry joining? Does anyone know?

TC

[tilsammans]

117. A very KERRY Christmas to all . . . !

All I want for Chistmas is for this nightmare to end. Finally.

And to see the perps in jail, where they belong. SOBs, all of them.

NOTHING would make me happier.

Thank you, Will, for all you do!

:yourock:

:kick:

[Raksha]

118. Thanks, Will!

Now to get the word out to the resident freepers on another forum where I am a regular. I'll post a link to your article.

[McCamy Taylor]

119. looks like lumps of coal for Bush and Co. for Xmas

[zann725]

342. and lots of Kkkkarl Rove conference calls and planning mtgs!

Hope they DO enjoy their ho-ho-holidays...courtesy of JK and DU!

[deminks]

121. OK, here we go!

Paraphrasing Winston here "We will fight them in the air, we will fight them on the sea, we will fight them on the land, we will fight them on the internet(s), we will fight them in the courts." We " got your back", JFK. Every American's vote is at stake here. :bounce: Never give up, never give in.

edited for spelling

[Quakerfriend]

129. You said it!

EVERYBODY hit the streets 1/6 and demand that JFK unconcede!

He would never jump in unless there was hope!:thumbsup:

[zann725]

338. What a nicely worded post! Thanks "deminks."

Oh, and welcome to DU...newbie!:toast:
(I remember how much it meant to me when others welcomed my
'newbie-ness.'

[Alizaryn]

123. This is BIG NEWS. All we can hope is that the truth come out.

[FogerRox]

138. Like MArv ALbert---- YES-----

Get your signs ready be prepared to hit the streets.

http://www.51capitalmarch.com/


[e-mail]

[KnowerOfLogic]

130. Not a peep from MSM, as far as i can see. nt

[ginnyinWI]

184. It may be part of the plan

when you release something on Dec. 23rd, when a lot of reporters are going on break, and putting the second-string people in charge--you aren't neccessarily looking for maximum coverage. It's like a Friday night "dump".

[Nothing Without Hope]

270. They may not write anything until the filing actually happens

On the thread about the newly released movie of the Triad technician here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=190727&mesg_id=190727

William Pitt is asked whether Kerry was actually able to file today since many offices were closed by the heavy weather. He replied that he was still trying to find out.

It's not unreasonable that the media will no publish on this news of Kerry's filing until he actually does it. That may not happen today. Perhaps Kerry will issue a public statement or have a press conference on this if he can't get the filing in today. That would get coverage, I believe.

[Wapsie B]

132. Very interesting.

Thank you. If Kerry should be able to successfully challenge this we need to be prepared for the vicious attacks on the new President-elect that will be sure to follow. Monica will pale in comparison I'm afraid.
But we need to be ready.

[RoeBear]

298. Aren't we the little optimist

what makes you think that if this action was successful that Kerry would become President?

If the Ohio vote is thrown out there isn't going to be a 'do over'.

It'll go to the Ohio legislature, controlled by guess who- Repubs.

[AzDar]

133. Having a Kerry Pittmas....Thanx Will !!!!! n/t

[woodsprite]

135. Little by little ...

We're like the little engine that could :) We know we can! We know we can! We know we can!

Hubby's and my 3 Xmas wishes are

1) to say "Congratulations! President Kerry"
2) return the village idiot to Crawford, and
3) to see Blackwell removed from office in handcuffs

Then come the New Year's wishes of pulling our guys out of Iraq!

[Kellis]

140. Kerry wouldn't do this unless......

there was something there to expose.This is fantastic news.


Thanks for posting Will~very well written~

[zann725]

343. He wouldn't do it unless he's pretty sure he can win.

n/t

[pacalo]

141. Yep, the last paragraph does it for me!

I spent over two hours writing letters to congresspeople last night & it was well worth it! I plan to write updated letters today.

Thanks, Will! :yourock:

[pauldp]

142. WOO HOO! Thanks Will! Lets Keep Up the Pressure Everybody!! n/t

[Miami Liberal]

147. And a Happy Holidays

this shall be.

Thanks Will!

[gordianot]

148. Great news.

I am anxious to hear the Triad stuff. No matter the outcome I am feeling much better and have a grain of hope for at least the "Truth" to be heard. Democrats need to make a stand.

I wonder how ** plunging approval ratings will play now!

[MellowOne]

149. A positive step

Fraud has to be exposed even if it doesn't put Kerry in the White House. No one should get away with corruption!!

[boi1946]

170. Guess not everybody can see my smile

from here in Texas, BUT I'M SMILING!!!!!

Thanks, Will!

[pointsoflight]

150. Immediate Action Request

Will Pitt says in his article that the calls and e-mails are having an effect. He also says in a post above that our senators don't want a repeat of the opening scene from 9/11--they're undoubtedly ashamed for not standing up for the rights of disenfranchised African American voters who vote for democrats at a 90% clip.

Let's be sure to remind them of what happened in 2000 and why it's so important to not let that happen again. Call and write your senators, and use the following information to hit the suppression and disenfranchisement issue hard.

Video of African American voter suppression and disenfranchisement:
http://www.thefreespeechzone.net /

Some diaries documenting the suppression:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/12/22/143719/67
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/12/15/12545/041

Some very strong words from one of our African American sisters:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/12/15/9734/4841

And some more strong words:
http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2004/12/15/9734/4841/470#470

[goclark]

163. Speak My Sister, Speak! A must read

The kos post is exactly what is happening in this country.

[Beth in VT]

232. Those video clips are sickening.

Keep posting these links. I wish there were some way to quantify the number of people who were flat-out denied an opportunity to vote. This is shameful.

[no safe haven]

297. I don't understand why this issue is not headline news

...and at the forefront. Even I know (halfway across the world) that black voter suppression in 2000 and 2004 amounts to a continuation of jim crow. The last I heard this was unconstitutional. Wouldn't that alone be enough to overturn the election in whatever state it occurred? If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. Or maybe I'm just being naive.

Happy Christmas to all, looking forward to seeing Kerry fighting them bastards.

[Capn Sunshine]

153. This is Great and I don't want to minimize this

but can you see how waiting this long gives every appearnce of indecisive dithering?

I have no doubt that behind the scenes GREAT THOUGHTS were being wrestled with, and I mean no disrespect to John Kerry.

But why NOW? Where was he last month?

Notheless, better late than never.

[ClassWarrior]

160. Don't you see?... We need to make sure everyone KNOWS that great...

...thoughts were being wrestled with. That this is how JK planned it all along. The want of a good legend never stopped Ronald Reagan. :evilgrin:

NGU.

[hootinholler]

156. I haven't seen anyone else comment on ..

This being filed in U.S. District Court. Isn't that a Federal Court which will bypass all the crap with the OSC?

That also means that the Judge has U.S. Marshals at his disposal to oversee the materials to be locked down or take other actions including conducting a hand recount, canvassing registered voters to find those that had to leave, etc.

I'd sure like to see the filing.

-Hoot

[McCamy Taylor]

157. emailed it to Olbermann, wish Keith was here, HE would tell America!

[New Earth]

159. this can't be good, the court is closed today

due to bad weather :( can they still file even thought the court is closed?

from the site: Due to continued inclement weather conditions, all Courthouses of the U.S. District Court, Southern District of Ohio will be closed on Thursday, December 23rd, 2004.

http://www.ohsd.uscourts.gov/

[goclark]

180. Can't a judge accept a case without the court "open?"

[k8conant]

280. It mentions "Electronic Case Filing"...

on that website: http://www.ohsd.uscourts.gov/

[fooj]

161. You rock, Will! "The thrill of hope...

...the weary world rejoices, for yonder breaks a new and glorious morn"...what a gift! God is good!!!

[Cheswick2.0]

162. good

I'd like to see him do a press conference, but I understand why he might feel that is a bad idea.

I think this is a decent step. It's not exactly a call to the streets and we will see if it is effective in fighting the fraud. If it is not then I will hope for a call to action from him.

[keepthemhonest]

167. yes cheers to a Kerry christmas

and to all a good night.(or day whatever.) hee hee

[pixelthief]

168. More evidence of Tampering w/ Recount?

http://www.lancastereaglegazette.com/news/stories/20041222/localnews/1774145.html

<snip>

The recount did not go without problems.

The official recount was scheduled for last Wednesday.

Nicolia said when they did the hand count and compared that to the voting machine's count, they didn't match.

"But we had a back up tabulator (voting machine counter)," Nicolia said.

When they tried that one, it didn't work either.

With nothing else to do, Nicolia said the tabulator room was locked until a technician from the company could come.

"The earliest they could send someone was Saturday," Nicolia said.

The technician brought in a new tabulator and worked on the old one.

"We decided to use the new one he had brought in," Nicolia said.

They tested the machine and test batch matched the hand count.

"We were in touch with the Secretary of State's Office all the time," Nicolia said.

[loritooker]

172. (Kerry).."can also prove a substantial chance for success on the merits.."

Kerry is saying he believes he can prove that he had a chance to win Ohio. He believes he can prove, substantially, that he had a chance! When he conceded he stated that the votes just weren't there. I see this as a complete turnaround! "Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds" or something like that. Yipeeeee!

[IndyPriest]

271. Eggzactly! Thought it was the most important sentence! n/t

[berniew1]

179. Why is this restricted to Triad systems; fraud better doc. re: ES&S

While the Triad stuff is interesting; the machine vote fraud with ES&S machines such as in Mahoning County is better documented.
http://northnet.org/minstrel/alpage.htm Youngstown

and http://www.flcv.com/fraudpat.html

[Carolab]

274. berniew1

I assume this information is in all the right hands; what is the status?

[MessiahRp]

181. Will, you are the man...

once again. Great work. Hopefully this gives Kerry the push he needs and maybe, just maybe, someone will start noticing the crap they pulled down there.

Rp

[euler]

182. Mr. Pitt, 2 or 3 weeks ago you posted a note saying....

....that there was no way John Kerry would sit in the White House in 2005 - that there was nothing that could be done that would make it so. You then qualified your remarks by saying "the only way Kerry would occupy the oval office in 2005 would be if a lot of people in the line of succession died first and he was the next in line." Do you still feel this way ?

My gut feeling is that you do, but please respond. Thanks.

[ClassWarrior]

185. This isn't about Kerry getting into the WH - it's about...

...Kerry getting into the fight. And he's a helluva fighter. LOL

NGU.

[seito]

213. As one of my favorite posters said

John Kerry and John Edwards are two of the last people they should have tried this sh*t on. There is going to be a fight indeed.

BTW, nice to see you again Class

:pals:

[ClassWarrior]

240. Hey you!!

:hi:

Happy Holidays, my friend.

NGU.

[WilliamPitt]

187. I still think it is a long slog and a long shot

but less so than it was two weeks ago.

As I said, if I am wrong, the champagne is on me. :)

[loritooker]

190. Make mine Moet! ; ) n/t

[FogerRox]

224. Much better chance than 2 weeks ago--it was a snowflakes chance

in hell--nows itas a growing snowballs chance in Hell--and Hells gas burners are losing pressure.

Get your signs ready be prepared to hit the streets.

http://www.51capitalmarch.com /


[e-mail]

[IndyPriest]

273. But the exposure of fraud has gotten MUCH easier!

Kerry's team (which includes Arnebeck, for sure) will get REAL powers of discovery, now. Hot damn. Hot, Hot Damn!

[HEAVYHEART]

183. Big news indeed!

Thanks Will!!

[malatesta1137]

191. the last paragraph is what worries me

Kerry is entering this because of letters and phone calls? Not because he has HARD evidence?

Plus, he's not entering this 'completely'?

Sorry, this is still NOTHING.

[valis]

205. same here...

[Stand and Fight]

236. Yep...

Unfortunately you are pretty much right. Unfortunately. :think:

[Patsy Stone]

244. Agree to disagree

If he does it "because of the people," who can argue with that? Who can say "Sore Loserman" or that he flip-flopped? If he said he was doing it to try to change the outcome, the crap would fly.

BTW, I don't know about you, but I *DID* write him and ask him to get involved. From all of your pessimistic (although you will, I'm sure, say "realistic") posts, it didn't seem like you expected him to do anything at all. Whether it's part of a plan, or off the cuff, good for him! Good for us and good for the democratic process!

Also, who knows what the hell he really has or doesn't have.

Take that Grinch walkin' and KWIT YER BITCHIN!

[Stand and Fight]

254. Funny...

I always find it quite outrageous when people tell someone else to quit their bitching when they're doing the very same thing themselves.

:eyes:

S/he has every bit as right to "bitch" as you do. Just because it does his/her opinion doesn't fall in line with the rest of us means that s/he should be silenced. I don't like a lot of his/her post, but I will damn sure stand up for his/her right to express it.

[Patsy Stone]

259. Correct!

But mostly every post I've read from s/he has been negative:

First, he's not doing anything, so he sucks
Next, he's doing something, so he sucks.

Which is it? Can it be both? At the same time? Is this evidence of a bi-polar disorder?

Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE has a right to their opinion. I was referring to the history of negativity I've read from s/he since I've been here.

And, last night, s/he admitted to bitching:

malatesta1137 (1000+ posts) Thu Dec-23-04 02:11 AM
Response to Original message

342. this is making even
Edited on Thu Dec-23-04 02:15 AM by malatesta1137
Kerry-bashing, angry-bitching, bitter-negative malatesta smile!


So, chill.

[malatesta1137]

314. no I'm not bi-polar

yesterday we were told by Mr. Pitt that something big was going to happen TODAY. It didn't, I should have known.

It's only natural that I go back to my Kerry-bashing, angry-bitching, bitter-negative state of mind. But you can always add me to you 'ignore' list.

[Patsy Stone]

320. No, I won't do that.

I have no reason to ignore anyone. You have done nothing to me.

I think today's news was good. If the weather prevented it from being filed, so be it. If you didn't like that the article said he did it because of the activists (that's partially us, btw), that is your right. As I said to S&D, everyone has a right to voice their opinion -- fair is fair. I just wanted you to know that we here, as well as many others, did ask him to do this. You think he should have had other motivations, and I'm not sure that he doesn't.

I've just noticed that no matter what happens, you're unhappy. I'm sorry you're unhappy, and I do not have to agree, but at least you're consistently unhappy. For that I applaud you, even if it defies all logic. I took offense with someone telling me I was bitchin' when I was pointing out that you are usually in a bad mood and never satisfied.

I pointed out that I was not calling you out for nothing, that you had said "bitching" yourself, last night. Again, your right, but what a waste of energy!

Have you named yourself after the anarchist author Malatesta or the House of Malatesta? If neither, I apologize. If either, then do tell me which. I'll at least have some idea where you are coming from. I'll not trouble you again and I will waste no more time and effort trying to reason with you. Peace.

[malatesta1137]

328. wrong

I am not always 'unhappy', in fact yesterday I was excited about the news and decided to let everyone here know.

And unhappy is not the word anyway, PISSED is.

Since you asked, I am indeed an anarchist, but my screen name is a tribute to Malatesta in Donizetti's opera Don Pasquale, a comedy (see?).

[Patsy Stone]

331. I know you were

That's where the bi-polar came from. You were happy about the news. Then you were unhappy about the reason, now you are pissed that it wasn't filed, even though the reason was the weather, not because of lack of desire, or due to any nefarious plot.

If you admitted to Kerry-bashing and bitching and anger, then you know you're a Kerry-basher, a bitcher or angry. You went from happy to pissed in 3 seconds. Short fuse; kinda strange, but your choice.

I have seen other posts by you, killing joy and laughter. I have only seen one (yesterday) where you've had something positive to say. We have, in fact, been on this ride together before, you and I -- do you remember? I have tried to show you the good, and you have pointed out only the bad.

First you were pissed that Kerry did nothing, then, when he did something, you were pissed that it wasn't what or how you prescribed it should have been handled. When will you be satisified? Tell me what do you want to happen now? Without the "re-writing" history part of going back to Nov. 3 and having him state, without any concrete evidence, that the election was stolen? Let's imagine how that would have played in Oklahoma. Piss poor I imagine.

I think he has evidence. I think he wouldn't do this if he didn't. If there was no "there" there, he would have made a very public statement to us (his supporters) if to no one else, saying, "Give it up." He didn't though, he's filing suit. Yay! Happy Festivus!

Perhaps you should try my "Airing of Grievences" post in the Lounge.
:)

[malatesta1137]

337. so

you WERE in fact bitching that I was happy yesterday and got naturally disappointed today. You seem to want me in a permanently pissed mood.

Honestly, your analysis of me is absurd.

But you ask me when I'll be satisfied? The minute the man REPORTING FOR DUTY shows a backbone, that's when.

[Patsy Stone]

340. No, I was in fact not bitching that you were happy

I was saying that you were bitching because you were bitching.
He is reporting for duty, it just snowed really hard.

[malatesta1137]

345. don't give me this snow bull

This lawsuit is looking like a PR move anyway, window dressing. Get real. He's not even getting involved in the full recount, this filing won't change a damn thing.

[IndyPriest]

276. BUT, this intervention says he KNOWS now he can get

the hard evidence! THAT'S the thing. The request is for the power of discovery. Subpoenas, under oath depositions, and all the rest. They're getting ready to hang the bastards.

[BUSHOUT]

324. Do you believe Bush stole the election or not?

Haven't you expressed the idea that Kerry should fight...that he's not worth much if he only fights when victory is assured (as you implied he's doing)?

He can't win with you, can he?

[Der Blaue Engel]

334. Nope. He can't. Don't waste your breath on this one.

I have it on ignore, and I still know what you're responding to. ;)

Just join me in a nice, big round of I BELIEVE! :hi:

Blaue

[BUSHOUT]

357. "It" on ignore. I like that.

You're tres kewl!

I speak a little French, cause I know it bugs it. :party:

[satori]

192. Kerry update Berkeley organizer says Kerry Joined recount is bulls##t

A case Ohio revote activist says a Berkeley organizer for the voting rights group is on a conference call with DC right now and he says that KERRY has not joined the recount and that whatever we have heard is bulls##t.

[horklet]

196. Kerry becomes a believer on x-mas eve?

And no one will notice. A True Poseur, I'm sorry to say.

[Cheswick2.0]

200. Hey Horklet!

Fancy meeting you here!

[pacalo]

228. Hello there, horklet...

[Cheswick2.0]

197. so a friend of a friend of a made up persona on DU

says it's bullshit. Guess I'll go slit my wrists.

[New Earth]

198. lollll

[New Earth]

221. if you read the effin article

it doesn't say he has 'joined the recount'. he has filed a lawsuit to impound and secure all voting machines. :hi:

[pacalo]

231. You might want to re-think the syntax of your post...

Frankly, it's hard to understand.

:argh:

[loritooker]

194. Kerry hears people! Also, Kerry wouldn't do this without good evidence!

[Stinky The Clown]

201. The last paragraph says it all ... which is NOTHING

The final paragraph in the Truthout statement reads:

Perhaps the most significant aspect of all this, from the activist point of view, has been the effectiveness of the telephone calls and letters to Kerry. The activist push to get him involved had a very significant effect on his decision to enter this effort. Likewise, calls to other Senators in order to convince them to join House members in challenging the election have likewise had significant effect. If such an effort continues, the activists involved will very likely see the desired result unfold.

In other words, Kerry may well have not done shit unless pushed? Sorry, but this is all window dressing and bullshit. Flame me as a downer if you wish, but that's how this all reads to me. Just another tidbit being thrown to the deluded left who had thought they had a fighter working for them. I admit ... I thought so, too.

Chimpus Khan will be crowned Grand High Mucky Muck of the World on Jan 20 and we'll still be out here with our collective finger in our collective ass.

[valis]

203. Yeah, weird last statement... I mean, it does not make Kerry look good!

[BUSHOUT]

327. Sure...right. Kerry looks baaaaaad. That's your take on things...always.

[Stand and Fight]

233. ...

:shrug:

You deliver a strong message, and while some here may not like it, it is very much the reality of the situation. Kerry needs to get up and get his ass on the evening news to motivate those -- like us -- in the "know" and those like so many Americans who literally have no clue about Ohio. Only Kerry has the power to rally a huge public outcry.

[pgh_dem]

238. call it giving credit where credit is due

and realize that he has no chance of winning the presidency or even uncovering the fraud of this election if it appears he is standing alone.
He has to be seen as the anointed leader of a grass-roots effort to right the wrongs of the election, rather than a sore loser.
You have to appreciate that this guy is fighting a battle on at least 4 fronts:
1) An election system wide open to bias under the control of his opponent's campaign co-chair.
2) An openly hostile media (not limited to f*ck news)
3) "moderates" in his own party that don't want to rock the boat
and of course
4) His opponent's access MASSIVE legal and financial resources.
This has to be done extremely carefully, and could still blow up in his face.
Give him a chance.
If you're looking for a fighter *right now*, just go give Rep John Conyers a hug...he's fighting hard.

[valis]

247. Ok, fair enough...

But he's got the reputation of being a fighter... No?... If you don't fight when things look not so good, then when do you fight? Only when victory is certain?...

[pgh_dem]

249. Just trying to say 'fighting' in this context isn't a boxing match

It's more like a chess match or one of those chinese chess games (go?) where the point of it is to outmaneuver your opponent.
Hack and slash just won't work here.

[BUSHOUT]

323. You're very down on Kerry I've noticed. Why?

[bunny planet]

284. No need to flame you when I have my trusty ignore button finger at the

ready. Buh-bye.

[valis]

202. Is this just a PR event? What difference does it make?

[New Earth]

207. hate to copy and paste my opinion but here it is

Don't people realize that it is more serious to file a lawsuit (by Kerry directly!) demanding impounding of all machines - rather than just a recount? To me it is a little more serious. Asking for a recount more or less implies you just think the votes weren't counted properly.

Demanding impounding of all the machines to be held onto for discovery means it is believed that evidence of fraud will be found. :hi:

[muse]

220. Agree. It's kind of chilling.

I hope this is the real deal. I'd like to see a copy of the actual papers that were filed/are going to be filed. This is very serious and one for the history books! This is a presidential candidate saying there is real evidence of fraud. That's my take on it, also.

[pointsoflight]

229. The lawsuit has always had more legs than the recount.

And the most important aspect of the recount has always been than it could provide more evidence to be used in the lawsuit.

[New Earth]

230. exactly

the actions (or lack thereof) of Blackwell and election officials during the recount have only ADDED to the case of fraud. It will all come together perfectly as if created by God, if you ask me :D

[satori]

234. I agree

I think the only way the election could be overturned is if Kerry filed the lawsuit.

I personally think that even if he did file something to support the Greens that it is just lip service.

As of now though I am not a lawyer as I see it the only way we have a chance for 2004 or 2008 is for Kerry to join the revote of the election campaign not the recount ASAP. Or the Dems need to start running someone like General Clark for 2008 ASAP because he would have a personal reason to want the junk BBV machines changed to paper ballot.

Conyers asking for exit polls to me is silly. Why? We are not the Ukraine we don't have to appeal to sound bites. It has been proven that the machines are junk so if they could of defrauded us they did defraud us so then we need a new election and/or someone like General Clark to start requesting investigations of the BBV issue so we can have a fair election in 2008

[bronco]

212. michael moore links to the story...

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=692

[MelissaB]

216. Hot Damn!

That is good to see! Congratulations, Mr. Pitt!

[seito]

217. Thanks for the link bronco

Welcome to DU :hi:

[GetTheRightVote]

215. I am glad for the news, but many on the thread do not read it the same

way. What does this report really tell us or do these individuals just not know what we know due to your information on DU, Will P. ??

:shrug:

[politicasista]

219. I was afraid something like this was going to happen.

Mixed reviews. Has he joined or has it not? I am getting "mexed messages.?

[New Earth]

223. HE DIDN'T JOIN THE EFFIN RECOUNT

HE FILED A LAWSUIT DEMANDING IMPOUNDING AND SECURING OF VOTING MACHINES :hi:

[IndyPriest]

278. Faye, I get the feeling we're going to have to repeat this a few times

throughout the evening. This filing is MUCH more important than anything to do with the recount. They're after the PROOF, now, of criminal fraud, and not just the evidence of it.

[jsascj]

222. I DO love t hat last paragraph...

I voted and my vote didn't count.

Maybe the letters I wrote actually DID!

Thanks so much.

[The Bear]

225. But will they fight?

This is GREAT news about Kerry and about Senators almost ready to challenge the EV! My concern is that some Senators will find enough of a backbone to stand up and challenge the EV, but they won't actually *fight* to try to correct the outcome. They could just stand up to be counted for publicity's sake. That would be the Dems' typical M.O., anyway.

We need to emphasize to them that we expect them to follow through with the challenge!

[Stand and Fight]

227. Hmmm... It hurts to say this...

No offense folks, but I think you guys are getting worked up over crumbs. This is not decisive action and there will be little, if any, idiotic mainstream media coverage on this. Nonetheless, it is very important that everyone continue to work their hardest in writing their Congressmen.

I just don't want to see people get all riled up over what really amounts to very little, if anything...

What Kerry needs to conduct is a press conference. If he is truly serious -- nothing short of a press conference (or even press release) is going to get the MSM, and thus, the people, involved. Honestly, we know need to take some truly assertive action -- this wishy-washy non-committal course is only eroding the very little amount of time that we do have.

:hurts:

ON EDIT: I do, however, believe that it is good news about the impoounding of the machines and whatnot -- that could be significant if it is followed up by aggressive actions and even more so assertive words. This thing must be confronted head-on and NOW. Time is NOT on our side.

[pacalo]

237. When it comes to exposing fraud in our election system,

there's always plenty of time. It's a fight for the voters.

[Stand and Fight]

242. Sigh... Very well people.

But there are going to be some people falling very hard on January 6th and 20th. Delude yourself into thinking this is some "BIG DEAL," but I'm here to tell you that this message is DOA -- dead on arrival. Silence on Kerry's part about what went on in Ohio as far as voter suppression, obvious evidence of fraud, and the damn chicanery and lies of J. Kenneth Blackwell and company should have our man all over the news screaming about the crap there.

[Laurab]

245. Wishy-washy - just like the repugs labeled him?

Their campaign was quite effective, wasn't it?

I don't see how you can call it "not a decisive action". I'm not sure what some people expect Kerry to do. He's damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't. I believe that he's doing as much as the evidence he has allows him to do. He's got to consider that very effective right wing publicity machine, and the spin of * and his pals. Someone who posted above wanted him to fight like Gore did - um - where is Gore now?

I think the fact that his name is now attached means they've uncovered real evidence of fraud, and that this is only the beginning. Maybe they're not quite ready for the MSM to pick it up yet. I have to believe that John Kerry knows a whole lot more than we know, and I certainly believe he's a fighter. It's really not about him getting into the white house to me at this point, it's about exposing those people for the liars and cheaters that they are. Actually it's more about getting them OUT of the white house, and I truly do believe this is only the beginning, and that it's great news. The silence is breaking...

[Stand and Fight]

250. Riiight.

You just keep telling yourself that right through January 20th and through 2008 and early 2009.

:eyes:

Where in the world did you find out about this so-called "real evidence of fraud"? Because I have not come across anything that is indicative that Kerry has found any thing that would be considered what you call "real evidence of fraud." You say you have to believe that John Kerry knows a heck of a lot more than us and that he's a fighter. Fine. But I will not hesitate in reminding you of a very ugly adage. People readily believe what they wish to be true. Believe all you want about Kerry and this being only the beginning. Believe that silence is breaking. Nonetheless, know that as long as the vast majority of people who would be supportive of our efforts remain in the dark because of media blackout this cause is going nowhere fast. The silence is NOT breaking -- it is just getting more noisy.

[bunny planet]

281. Can you change your name already. More like 'stand and complain'.

[Laurab]

306. Thank you, I will continue to be optimistic

Rather than pessimistic. Make all the ":eyes" you want. I personally haven't seen any "real evidence of fraud", although I've been directed to many articles, court filings and websites, that list hundreds of instances of what sure seems to be to be fraud. John Kerry doesn't report to me, unfortunately, so I don't expect him to be notifying me anytime soon of exactly what he's seen. My best guess is that he's seen more than me, that he knows what will and will not stand up to scrutiny, and that he would not commit probable political suicide, by attaching his name to something that doesn't exist. I've seen so many people virtually destroyed by the right wing media that I can't imagine he could have gone about it any other way. You think people would have been behind us - I think they would have laughed at the "sore loserman".

I do appreciate your giving me permission to keep being optimistic. I plan on it. I don't know what's going to happen, but what I do know is that this is not going away. I still don't know what you expect the guy to do, but I'd rather not see him become yet another victim of the right wing spin machine, and I think he's far to smart to do that. Carry on with your pessimism, and I'll happily keep my optimism.

[pacalo]

329. You & I are on the same wave length, Laurab!

Like I've said before, if Kerry had taken his complaint to a national level by refusing to concede, Bushitler would have gone to his bud Scalia & the Republican-stacked SCOTUS. We all know how that would have turned out.

Kerry's making all the right moves & I've never lost faith in him. I made a point of learning all I could about him, & based on what I've learned I have complete confidence in him. He's a hero in every sense of the word.

[Joe Chi Minh]

353. John Kerry 's forgotten

more about when and how to investigate and prosecute major criminals to maximum effect than we'll ever know.

As for his courage, no-one has proved his physical and moral courage more unambiguously. Not a bad set of qualifications at this juncture in world history.

[troubleinwinter]

235. GUESS WHAT!!!!! I just got delivery of

"The Greatest Sedition is Silence", by William Rivers Pitt! It's a Christmas present for my husband, but I wanna read it MYSELF!!!!

[MelissaB]

243. It is sitting under my Christmas tree, too!

I can't wait to read it.

[Peace Patriot]

241. The work of restoring democracy in the U.S. will not be over...

...for some time. An unprecedented coalition of grass roots and Dem leadership (spurred by Internet activism) got it started by putting differences aside and electing Kerry, despite the biased media and the great odds against us. (Think back to 2002-3.) The people finally saw through Bush Inc. B.S. and voted to oust them. But Bush Inc. election fraud nearly killed this great democracy movement--it was so demoralizing. Americans had only just awakened, but had little power. The first chance they got, they threw Bush out. AP messing with Exit Polls on Election Day killed their spirit. But the Greens, the Ohio volunteers, Alliance for Democracy (Cliff Arnebeck), DU, Free Press, TruthOut, "count every vote" diehards, Congr. Conyers, Jesse Jackson and others saved this remarkable movement, by not giving up and by tenaciously pursuing the evidence of fraud. We're now trying to put the coalition that won the election back together.

John Kerry joining the Green Party effort is the first big sign that we are succeeding. The POINT of the election campaign, and the POINT of THIS fight, is that it is citizen-driven. We are demanding that our leaders fight back--and Kerry responded. I've no doubt that he wanted to, on Nov.3, but he had no case. The main fraud was deeply hidden, in secret source code with no paper trail, and had to be ferreted out with statistical studies. (The AP Exit Poll fraud that day also made the thing invisible.) And somebody had to corner the fraudsters, and get them to trip over themselves--as the Green Party has done.

Having the candidate cry foul will be a huge help in one our chief obstacles--informing all those disenfranchised voters (all the Kerry voters--the majority!) of what happened.

This is critical. Kerry voters WILL support the election fraud fight when they know what happened. They are depressed and demoralized. They hate Bush and his fascist coup with all their hearts. Believe me. But they don't know what to do! We told them to VOTE. They voted. They think they lost. Now what? We have to get them over this hump (now what?).

We're on our way! It's working. Whatever mountains we have to climb in the next month--or six months, or longer--the good people of this country are finally getting in sync again, and moving as one team. This is astonishing--our recovery from this staggering blow--and great cause for joy.

I thank you all, DUers! And everyone involved. What awesome patriots you are! And William, a special Merry Christmas to you!

[Patsy Stone]

251. Amen! n/t

[Raksha]

299. Thanks, Peace Patriot...

for your words of truth and inspiration.

[wlubin]

248. KERRY KERRY KERRY KERRY KERRY KERRY KERRY KERRY

KERRY KERRY KERRY KERRY KERRY KERRY KERRY KERRY

woohoo I haven't done the Kerry chant since the election deception.

John I was there at the ft. lauderdale airport when you arrived for the first debate slaughter. I was at the Miami Arena party after the first debate, and I was at CB Smith part in Pembroke Pines, FL.

You are not going to lose this election. I repeat, you are not going to lose this election.

The washington redskin's game predicted it. Washington made a game leading touchdown with just about 1 min left in the game. Dumbya won the election with just a month left before inauguration. But Washington had the touchdown brought back due to a penalty. Dumbya will get the election results disqualify ed due to fraud in Ohio. Green Bay went on to win the game. John Kerry will go on to win the election.


:toast: :party: :dunce: :nopity: :nuke: :dem: :kick: :puffpiece: :loveya: :pals: :headbang:

:yourock: John Kerry

[New Earth]

265. BEST POST OF THE DAY

:toast: :grouphug:

[Patsy Stone]

266. As a fellow South Floridian and a Redskins fan

I am with you on all counts! I have been waiting for that TD to be called back on account of a penalty.

Hail to the Redskins!
Hail Victory!

:toast:

[bunny planet]

279. And don't forget the Bo Soxs breaking the curse of the Bambino!!!!

:-)

[weeve]

253. WHERE ARE OUR LEADERS ?!?!

A little late , don't you think ? Just signing on to the current case isn't really a bombshell. Why didn't Kerry sign on earlier and have those machines impounded immediately ? Plenty of opportunity since the election to fiddle with them. There comes a point when we need a National Leader to get out in front of this issue. As much as we love and admire John Conyers, the vast majority of Americans don't even know who he is. People know Jesse Jackson , but are quick to dismiss him , and his viewpoints - and the MSM rarely even cover him. Keith O ... again, the majority of Americans say... WHO ? If this issue isn't just going to fade away , time is running out. Are Democratic leaders just going to shrug their shoulders and say ... yep, another stolen Presidency. Meanwhile, more die in Iraq... etc. etc.

WHERE ARE OUR LEADERS ?!?!

All that Kerry would have to do to bring this issue to the forefront would be to convene a press conference/statement explaining the reasoning behind this filing. Better yet... Edwards.( He's out of the Senate in a few days anyway. ) Kerry stays above the fray, Edwards does the heavy lifting for the time being. If we want this issue to snowball, one of these two "leaders" needs to step up to the plate. Time's a wastin' !!!

[enough already]

260. REAL Leaders...

...don't try to "stay above the fray". Exposing this fraud is critical. Wanting to "stay above the fray" is a bunch of crap. Get your hands dirty. And why is anyone willing to settle for ONE Dem senator to contest the election? Every damn one of them should be screaming if they want our support. The party is taking my support for granted, and I need to see a whole lot more from them before they blindly get it again.

[Patsy Stone]

255. Sometimes I thought I was insane.

Today -- Chalk one up in the WIN column for Sanity!

:yourock:

[IndyPriest]

282. "I might be crazy, but it keeps me from goin'

insane!" Great ol' song!

And, Patsy, just because you (might be) insane, doesn't mean you're not right!

[Patsy Stone]

294. Word! n/t

[Silver Gaia]

257. Are there any updates?

I just read this entire thread and am VERY, VERY encouraged by this news! (Thank you, Will!!!) But I have questions... it's noon here on the west coast, so it's mid-afternoon on the east coast... I guess I'm just concerned about the report that the courts are closed in Ohio today because of the bad weather, and am wondering if anything has actually happened yet. Does anyone have any info about the current status of this report? I'm not meaning to dump cold water on the enthusiasm here at all... I'm also in great need of being cheered, and do feel greatly uplifted... but would really, really like to know what is currently going on. If anyone knows anything more, PLEASE post? I'm on pins and needles waiting to hear more!

[WilliamPitt]

261. The weather is a factor

and I am still waiting to hear about that.

[Silver Gaia]

269. Thank you for your quick reply

to my questions, William. I'll keep checking back... ;)

[Nothing Without Hope]

289. In case he can't file today, are the Ohio offices open tomorrow?

And will you please post on the DU board when he does file or give a press conference a public statement on the filing?

Elsewhere on the board some people are muttering about the silence of the MSM on this, but it's not surprising if the filing hasn't actually, officially happened yet. I'm betting articles on the filing are already being prepared and we will see them when it's official. Have you heard anything relating to this - what MSM reporters are doing on this story?

As always, thanks!

[corbett]

262. Yep, It's Big Because It Wholly Changes The Legal Standing Of The Effort

Kick For Kerry!

[Niche]

263. Last paragraph... yeah. Keep fighting!

Thanks Will. Thanks JFK! Thanks DUers for not giving up! Ahhh!

[Carl Brennan]

264. HOTDAMN!! I knew from day one that Kerry wasn't a quitter

This is the move of a political genius. Kerry waited until there was a provable case and then made his move, and what a move it was. He builds off of the work of the Green/Libertarian effort that was done without fanfare and then joins them in the fray.



This is history in the making.

:bounce:

[Senator]

272. We had a MEETING with Senate Staff Today >> You Can TOO!

Calls, letters, telegrams, faxes, carrier pigeon...all good actions!

BUT BEST, is personal meeting with staff or Senator themselves.

We met with NJ Senators' staff today to make the case. They are definitely interested in the whys and wherefores for objecting.

You can find some at our FAQ page: www.deanpeople.org

You can email us for more help: [e-mail]

But get a meeting if you can. If you're a contributor, demand one. Sit in the outer office until someone will see you. Use all your remotest personal contacts (didn't your sister's friend once date the senator?).

Now's the time to call in all chits.

Stress the consequences of FAILURE to ACT (yet again). Let them know the train is leaving and they'll be left at the station. Do whatever you can.

____
www.thedeanpeople.org

(Become one of "thedeanpeople," the ones who stop thinking what "they" should be doing, and start doing it for them. The ones that scare the crap out of the toadies in DC. Trust us, it feels great!)

(The opinions expressed on the website are not necessarily those of the site visitors. Although we haven't run into that case as of yet.)
__

[IndyPriest]

283. Great stuff, Senator. Thank you! n/t

[Debbie13]

275. Thanks, fantastic!

[Carl Brennan]

277. I fired this off to all US Senators

Please feel free to do the same:

[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail]

[GetTheRightVote]

302. many of these email did not work, so need to check up on them

but here is a copy of the email I sent to those who did receive them:

I ask you all to stand and fight for Democracy as I have been since Nov 2 when the election stolen by G.W.Bush again. Gore won in 2000, and Kerry won in 2004, both time the American has been robbed of their election and the right to have their vote counted. We plead with you to hear us as we roar the truth across this great nation of ours. We share it and so we must share in the responiblity to protect her from dishonest individuals who would search to use her for their own personal gain and greed. I love her and I ask you to love her as well. Serve the citizens of this country as you were elected to do. Serve her by making her strong again in the foundation of Democracy on still she stands but which is now cracking beneath her feet as I type this email to you. If this stolen election is allowed to stand without defence then all is lost and interest in this country will disappear with this lost opporunity. The opporunity being to bring her back from the black hole which is threatening to suck her in. I am one of the vocal voice but there are so many who stand behind me in silence praying that I am right and that you will stand up and be counted in this our time of greatest need. They are afraid to hope, to keep the faith, to live the dream, I am not. I am here today as I will be everyday from this time forward until you are as strong as me in facing up to what needs to be done. The wrongs must be righted, the weak must be protected, the strong must not cower in the streets, the elected must be truly elected, and I must stand here until it all is done. I am not leaving, I will not cower, perhaps I look foolish, but better that then the other option which is no option to me, the lost of our Democracy. Death may come to me and those who think like me but then death is always the price demanded of those who stand strong, but also life springs from it. I do not know which will it be in the end but I will not live in fear nor will I live without my rights, they stood knowing these same facts, I stand for them now knowing them as well. Too many have died to give me these gifts for me not to take this stand and so must you if you truly believe that you are an American. It is what we are about, the foundation of who we are, there is no other truth. We, if we stand strong, are the truth. Truth is the true power. It will break the ropes which bind us now. The ropes must be broken this time. Take the stand that will break them, stand with us who stand across our nation, roar with us, share in our angrier, but fight to win this time. Win your honor back, win our trust back, seek our forgiveness, make us safe again, protect our children's future, live by the oath you gave to us upon taking office, build a better tomorrow for all of us. Stand by us now. Be a patriot and fight !

[OldLeftieLawyer]

287. This is the beginning of everything I've said since 11/3

The timing is immaculate (on top of the Christmas holiday, with WH people scattered), the forum (Federal, not state) perfect, the standing (Kerry facing irreparable harm), the beautiful silence and patience on the part of our candidate.

Stealth. That's what I've been counting on. That Kerry had his wits about him and had the patience to let it all unravel before he got involved.

Interesting that I just found in my mailbox a greeting from JFK and the Democratic Party. A salute to our soldiers.

If this goes right, everything I've been hoping for as an Old Lefty Lawyer will unfold, and they will never be able to scrape me off the ceiling. Never.

[Patsy Stone]

296. Amen!

OLL, I've been saying it all myself. The silence was not a sign of weakness, it is a sign of brilliance. This whole thing smacks of a warrior-like stealth and it always has. I, too, was quite pleased to receive an e-mail from JK/JE.

There was NO WAY he could have come out without proof, without a realistic hope that things could happen, and without the people behind him.

Peace. Keep the faith. I have to say, in a low, hopeful whisper: Help is on the Way.

BTW, I never thought this would end up with JK in the WH, but I do believe there is a much, much bigger plan at work here.

[wakemewhenitsover]

288. Anyone know where John Edwards stands...

...since he's a devastating lawyer?

Or how Elizabeth is doing? Best wishes...

[GetTheRightVote]

301. Yes, best wishes to John & wife, I hope she is doing well

Merry Christmas to them.

[Dancing_Dave]

291. Merry Christmas, Will!

:yourock:

[Walt Starr]

309. My personal viewpoint on this, too little too late

It's not even throwing a bone to his supporters. It's a scattering of crumbs!

It's a meaningless gesture, then he goes out and tries selling Cingular phone cards to "support the troops" like an executive in Demco!

That's my opinion, anyway, and I'm sticking to it.

[Digit]

313. Thanks Will!

[ColoradoDemocrat]

315. He better check his food for dioxin! n/t

[googly]

316. With Bush** inauguration only 17 working days away, there is not

enough time to stop it. No way the court challenges all the way to the SCOTUS can be finished in 17 days, will need ATLEAST 17 weeks. Once **
gets inaugurated and takes oath of office, he is "legally" the president. After that constitutionally only the congress can impeach him and remove him. The courts can NOT remove a sitting president.

This is just reality. I wish Kerry had not conceded and started legal action on November 3rd. Now it is too little too late, unfortunately.

[politicasista]

317. I know googly, I thought he conceded too soon

17 days is not enough time period.

[WilliamPitt]

321. To start a legal action

one needs evidence. Not anecdotes, not suspicions. Hard evidence. It has taken a lot of smart people a lot of work to get as much as has been gathered. That's just the way it is.

[seito]

325. Here's to hard evidence

:toast: I place my trust in those that are far more intelligent and well informed than I am. I believe that both John Kerry and John Edwards are men of their word. I believe they are skilled attorneys that would not file this suit unless they had compelling evidence of fraud.

I tip my hat to everyone that has worked so hard and risked so much to get us this far. :yourock:

[googly]

355. You could'nt be more right....as usual.

[lavenderdiva]

318. And a Merry Christmas to All!

This is WONDERFUL news! Thank you for sharing this... I can honestly say that after reading this article, for the first time since Nov 2, I had some hope in my heart that things may go our way. Or, at the very least, the skullduggery that the Bush clan used to twist this election will be exposed for all to see. Thank you!

[yojon]

319. Tipping point (I hope I hope I hope!!)

Jay Bookman (a generally sympathetic columnist from the Atlanta Journal-Constitution) said on Laura Flanders' show last week that if Kerry had been more actively involved, the MSM would have picked up on the Ohio fraud story. Without Kerry's interest, they weren't interested either.

Maybe now they'll be interested??

:think:

[Capn Sunshine]

352. You mean now that MSM has declared the "MANDATE"

and the story is old and stale?
Yeah. good luck with that.

[donheld]

335. Thank you Will

:dem:

[wakemewhenitsover]

344. How did Karl Rove make it snow in Ohio?

[rzemanfl]

347. He had all his operatives in the media....

play "I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas" over and over. Didn't you hear it on the radio?

[skids]

350. Actually, he used hot air.

By asking all pundits to face Ohio when they talked, they
created a warm front to mix with all that cold Canadian air.