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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:37 PM
Original message
Bush is Still Going to be Inaugurated
First of all, let me state that while I think today's news is great, I think the investigation will prove that there was some low-level fraud and tampering and plenty of vote suppression but that W still comes out slightly ahead.

However, in the event that a Bush victory is truly in doubt and widespread evidence mounts that the count was rigged, we should be realistic. There's no way that Kerry will become President. Republicans control the Ohio machinery and Congress.

The best we can hope for is that if fraud is proven (and I'm not assuming ANYTHING) then there will be a loss of legitimacy and a cloud hanging over his presidency. De-legitimize him (not that he was in the first place).
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Quakerfriend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thx for your opinion but,
I think something much bigger is looming!
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. If it goes to the U.S. Supreme Court, who knows? Sandra Day
O'Connor may not be in the mood to repeat her treason this time around. And Kennedy could also be wild card the second time around.
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
89. I heard she had second thoughts about her vote before.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
59. Looming, indeed!
Prison sentences.:party:
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zann725 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-04 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
97. I second that! No gloom and doom today! Too much is FINALLY happening.
Right now we need to focus on Jan 6.

I think we're on uncharted ground here...silly at this point to nay-say.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Oh come on - I'm just being realistic about what we can achieve
We can make this into a fight about voting rights and delegitimize Bush, embolden Democrats and beat these guys over the head with this. If fraud were proven, Bush's approval ratings would sink dramatically and we could really hamper him.

My point is simply that at this point Kerry won't be able to become President.
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
23. WRONG---There is a chance-slim but never the less a chance
roger@51capitalmarch.com Ready to Advance the troops


OUr targets are NYC--the headquarters of CBS, NBC, and ABC. And In Washington DC--look out the assualt starts on Jan 2nd untill jan. 6th.
http://www.51capitalmarch.com/


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KSAtheist Donating Member (209 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-04 05:22 AM
Response to Reply #23
98. A chance to do what, exactly?
The recount is over. The electors have spoken. Anything done in the senate would be a delaying tactic. For two hours.
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senseandsensibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
47. There's a time for pragmatism
and this isn't it! If you don't want to fight a possibly illegal hijacking of our electoral process on the very day that proof seems to be flowing in, so be it. That's a little too pragmatic for my blood.
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
73. In your dreams...
Edited on Thu Dec-23-04 06:28 PM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
Be pragmatic, for once. Your trivialisation of this scandal does you no credit. Indeed, you should hang your head in shame.

There are plenty of people, even in your party, who are scandalised by what went on, yet you blithely minimise the manifest, extraordinarily widespread fraud and the horrendous level of voter suppression.

As for the statistics, you people love to downplay that, but they are far and away the most compelling evidence possible, in my view. Just like the astronomical statistical improbability of all those grassy knoll witnesses dying within three years. If statistical computations are good enough for the insurance companies, they should be more than good enough for people who largely attribute this wholesale fraud to the incompetence of their own people at the polling stations.
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Higans Donating Member (819 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
87. Don't you get it? Leagally, Kerry is President!
Edited on Thu Dec-23-04 09:38 PM by Higans
Stay tuned for more on the continuing question of "How do you audit a vapor vote?"

Is E-Voting ME-Voting? Prove it!

This is the case the the Main Stream Media won't go near. instead they will talk about Scott Peterson for hours, or some puppy down a well when the real story....the one they won't touch....is that democracy is under attack by hackers.


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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-04 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #87
92. Legally, the guy with the most electoral votes will be President
And the Electoral College has already cast its votes. The only thing that can stop it now is if Congress decides not to accept Ohio's votes when they certify the results on January 6. If you think that the Republican controlled Congress is going to derail a second bush term, I have a bridge that I would like to sell you.
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
38. Make sure you put on IGNORE
all the TV channels broadcasting Bush's inauguration on Jan 20. I know you don't want be awaken from Wonderland.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #38
51.  I'm doing that anyway!
:) I always have the Bastard on ignore! Chill out .You are just pissed Kerry is doing something! Go Kerry! He may be smarter and more approachable than you think. If nothing else, it proves he is listening! If he had listened to us instead of the "Clintonista's" He wouldn't have to do this. But what the Hey, He listened and that means everything!
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. I'm pissed Kerry is doing something??
I'm pissed Kerry is doing f*cking close to NOTHING
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. Yeah , right. So Will is lying?
Other than filing on his own behalf , WTF do you expect him to do? Do you want him to count the ballots himself? You are always tearing into him when no one has ANY informatiom. We DO NOT KNOW what is being done. And when we DO find out he has done something people like you scream it isn't "enough" What do you want him to do? Take the Oval Office at gunpoint? Sheesh.Now we find he has been contributing money as well. Volumes could be written on what we DON"T KNOW1
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. I don't think "Will" is lying
but I think he worked DU up for nothing yesterday.

I don't want Kerry to take the Oval Office at gunpoint, but these lawsuits and letters are still worthless.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
3. To me, that is no longer the point...
I accept as given, even if massive fraud occurred, that Bush will be prez.

What i want NOW, is actually a loftier goal: to clean up the election process and make it legal, fair, transparent and accountable. That transcends even this election.
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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. ditto n/t
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. PLUS ---
People in jail.

I want the suckers who mucked up our democratic process to pay.

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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. oh, good point...I agree.
I want people in orange jumpsuits when this all over with. Interfering with the democratic process is treason, in my opinion, even if the legal eagles disagree.
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Fifth of Five Donating Member (241 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Amen!
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
35. Lead them away in Cuffs
Get your signs ready be prepared to hit the streets.

http://www.51capitalmarch.com /


roger@51capitalmarch.com
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
33. I agree - if we don't uncover the fraud none of our votes will ever count
and they'll take the vote fraud worldwide.

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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #33
60. The new world order n/t
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
41. an election process that is legal, fair, transparent and accountable
will NEVER going to happen. We never had one to begin with. And now with computers, fraud became as easy as chatting on AOL.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
42. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #42
48. thanks for the exhortation.
is this similar to discounting a criticism of the war in Iraq unless the person is willing to enlist?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #48
54. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #42
75. that WILL be done.. but we will FIGHT till he is sworn in.. till then..
we work to bring public awareness... its not the proof we lack.. its public knowledge! the system is broken at best and totally corrupt at worst... WHY should we quitely say.. oh gee... you got us this time...(and expect them to agree to "fix" whats wrong?) never again is happening NOW say NO!! .. stand up and be counted... be in DC on the 6th! there are many things going on that neither of us know... the one thing we can do for now is stand up and be counted... let them hear us in the Capitol that day.. I'll be there! If we lose the day.. MANY will stay and then regain strength in HUGE numbers on the 20th. THEN... if we live though all that... we can go count the ballots. PERSONALLY if it is needed!

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RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #42
85. heh - glad I looked, I was about to reply to a tombstone!
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alexisfree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. well.....
* can clean up he's own shit!! and we will make sure of it...
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marc_the_dem Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
5. Good point...
I've always thought if any fraud was proven in Ohio that all the electoral votes would be discarded and the vote would go to the congress. W would still be president... But, if fraud was tied to the campaign and or somehow tied to the chimp himself, we may have another watergate.
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DU9598 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. Costa Rica
I have already booked a vacation to San Jose and Manuel Antonio beach for the week of the inauguration. I could not stand to see all of the events of the week.

Now perhaps I should not have wimped out and stayed here, in case this gets interesting.
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
10. cloud hanging over his presidency?
It didn't stop the moron the first time.
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Bigger cloud. Much bigger. nt
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
43. much smaller
he was smart enough to steal big this time, he 'won' the popular vote.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #43
61. This time, however,
they were sloppy.
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. I don't think so
if they had been sloppy, those 17,000 lawyers Kerry supposedly hired would've come up with something by now.

And even if they were sloppy, Kerry will just let it go, for 'the good of the nation'.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #64
84. Ah, but we don't know, yet, what that rabbit will pull out of his hat.
n/t
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malatesta1137 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #84
88. I've been hearing this for 45 days now
this rabbit must have been cooked already.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #88
90. ah, but the fattened goose,
now that takes some time to cook. Bon Apatite.
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #43
66. Guess time will tell! n/t
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ihelpu2see Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
13. I dont look as GW as being legit from 2000 to today
All you need to do is look at his appointments to his cabinet.... and how he has destroyed the US foreign policy in just under 3 years...
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berniew1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
16. Thats not clear. I think Congress will challange the electors
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Doctor O Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
63. Yes and then they will adjourn discuss for 2 hours as proscribed
Edited on Thu Dec-23-04 05:43 PM by Doctor O
by law, and then the repub controlled houses will accept the electoral vote, and then B* is still President. And if he is impeached then Cheney is President.

If Ohio's EV are thrown out, then * still leads 266 - 251. The Repub house will elect * and the Senate will elect Cheney.


At this point in time since the electoral votes have been submitted, there is no way that Kerry will ever be President.

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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
17. While I agree w/ you on the *hole being sworn in
Edited on Thu Dec-23-04 01:58 PM by bush_is_wacko
Don't forget all the accidented and suicided Dems AND Rebubs that have friends left in Washington. I have not had time to post regarding this yet but I will be happy to pass on the websites and information gleaned from a somple bit of research I did as a result of this CNN article

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/10/25/politicians.plane.crashes/

***********************************************************
I think there are SEVERAL politicians that have been waiting to vindicate their fallen friends! If they don't have the balls now, they probably never will, but EVIDENCE of fraud can easily lead to investigation of other crimes!

This is just some of what I found. Call it :tinfoilhat: I really don't care. These people ALL have mysterious circumstances surrounding thier deaths. One of these is NOT a politician but an undercover cop who died in a plane EXPLOSION who was carrying some VERY damaging information regarding * Sr. Check it out!

.................................


PLANE CRASH VICTIMS ACCIDENTED
<<snip>>http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0210/S00185.htmBackground: US Politicians Killed In Plane CrashesSaturday, 26 October 2002, 8:13 pmArticle: The Scoop Editor


There are a lot more listed on this site than on the CNN list.
********************************************************


http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0877224.html
<<snip>>
Mel Carnahan
Age: 66
highly respected governor of Missouri who was engaged in a tight race for the U.S. Senate with Republican incumbent John Ashcroft. Known as an honest, up-front politician, Carnahan died in a plane crash on the eve of the third presidential debate, which was held in St. Louis. His son, Roger, 44, and an aide, Chris Sifford, 37, also perished in the crash.
Died: near St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 16, 2000


http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/oct2002/well-o29.shtml
The death of US Senator Paul Wellstone: accident or murder?
By the Editorial Board
29 October 2002
Use this version to print | Send this link by email | Email the author
<<full article>>
There is a serious question about the sudden death of Democratic Senator Paul Wellstone that has no doubt occurred to many people: was Wellstone the victim of a political assassination?
It is possible that there will emerge a credible explanation of the October 25 plane crash that killed Wellstone, his wife Sheila, daughter Marcia, and five others near Eveleth, Minnesota. Initial reports, however, are disturbing. None of the typical causes of a small plane accident—engine failure, icing, pilot error—appear to be involved.
<<snip>>.
Wellstone’s death comes almost two years to the day after a similar plane crash killed another Democratic Senate hopeful locked in a tight election contest, Missouri Governor Mel Carnahan, on October 16, 2000. The American media duly noted the “eerie coincidence,” as though it was a statistical oddity, rather than suggesting a pattern.
One might say, paraphrasing Oscar Wilde, that to lose one senator is a misfortune, but to lose two senators, the same way, is positively suspicious.
<<snip>>
Last year two leading Senate Democrats, Majority Leader Tom Daschle and Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy, were targeted for assassination with letters laced with anthrax. The federal Justice Department—headed by John Ashcroft, who lost to the deceased Mel Carnahan in the Missouri contest—has failed to apprehend the anthrax mailer.
Wellstone was in a hotly contested reelection campaign, but polls showed he was beginning to pull ahead of Republican nominee Norm Coleman, the former mayor of St. Paul, in the wake of the vote in the Senate to authorize President Bush to wage war against Iraq. The liberal Democrat was a well-publicized opponent of the war resolution, the only Senator in a tight race to vote against it.
More broadly, with the Senate controlled by the Democrats by a margin of 50-49, the loss of even a single seat could shift control to the Republicans. The immediate effect of Wellstone’s death is to deprive the Democrats of a majority in the lame-duck session scheduled for late November.
<<snip>>
Without exaggerating Wellstone’s personal significance—he was a conventional bourgeois politician and no threat to the profit system—there are enormous financial stakes involved in control of the Senate. Republican control of the Senate would make it possible to push through new tax cuts for the wealthy and other perks for corporate America worth billions of dollars—more than enough of an incentive to commit murder.

*****************************************************************************************************
All sites regarding Ron Brown’s death seem to try and point a figure at the Clinton Administration. I think there might be just as much evidence of Bush family involvement.

http://www.geocities.com/happy1215us/

<<snip>>
On April 3, 1996, Commerce Secretary Ron Brown and 34 others were killed when their Air Force Boeing 737 crashed into a mountainside in Croatia. One day after the crash, before any real investigation had begun, Defense Secretary William Perry told the Associated Press that the plane crash was "a classic sort of accident that good instrumentation should be able to prevent." The Air Force soon agreed and, in its ensuing investigation, determined that the tragic event was due to navigational error. Since that time, certain anomalies and evidence have come to light regarding the crash:
· Ron Brown was found with a .45-inch inwardly beveling circular hole in the top of his head, which resembled a gunshot wound. Despite this suspicious wound, the Air Force medical examiners decided not to order an autopsy.
· Normally in plane crash investigations there is a two step process. The Air Force first determines whether the crash was the result of an accident, hostile fire, sabotage, or mechanical failure. In Ron Brown's case, this determination (called a safety board) was skipped. Instead, the Air Force immediately proceeded to the second part of the investigation, where only accident and legal issues are considered.
· The Air Force reported that a navigation beacon had been stolen from the airport sometime before the crash. This led some to speculate that the pilot may have been intentionally drawn off course and into the mountainside by a spurious beacon.
· Three days after the the crash, Niko Jerkic--the man who was responsible for maintaining the airport's navigational aids--died by gunshot. This was ruled a suicide. Jerkic's untimely death meant that investigators did not have a chance to question him.
<<snip>>
http://www.questionsquestions.net/docs0209/1101_wellstone.html
Secretary of Commerce Ron Brown, a Democrat, was killed in a plane crash in Croatia on April 3, 1996. There are many unresolved mysteries with this incident, not the least of which is a color photograph of a post mortem Brown, which is frequently displayed by comedian/activist Dick Gregory, clearly showing a bullet wound in the back of his skull.

Pay particular attention to Gary Caradori. He died in plane EXPLOSION . He is not on the CNN list but The allegations he was making are ASTOUNDING!
<<snip>>
Gary Caradori was a retired state police investigator who had been hired by the Nebraska Senate to investigate what the Washington Times called "A homosexual prostitution ring." On the morning of 1989-06-29, the Times reported, "A homosexual prostitution ring is under investigation by federal and District authorities and includes among its clients key officials of the Reagan and Bush administrations, military officers, congressional aides and U.S. and foreign businessmen with close ties to Washington's political elite." Gary Caradori died mysteriously while investigating Lawrence E. King, Jr., (not CNN's Larry King) a very influential black Republican and close friend of George H.W. Bush. King was director of the Franklin Community Credit Union in Omaha, Nebraska, and was suspected of embezzling $40 million. Within weeks, the Nebraska Senate found itself questioning child prostitutes, who accused King of running a child prostitution ring. One of these children said that she saw George H.W. Bush at one of King's parties. "Pronto", a newspaper in Barcelona, Spain, reported that the scandal "appears to directly implicate politicos of the state of Nebraska and Washington DC who are very close to the White House and George Bush himself." On 1990-07-11, Gary Caradori was killed along with his 6-year old son in the crash of his small plane after a mid-air explosion, the cause of which was never discovered. He had told friends repeatedly in the weeks before his death that he was afraid his plane would be sabotaged. Caradori told Senator Loran Schmit he would fly that night from Chicago on his private plane with his son en route to Lincoln, Nebraska, with the evidence. Immediately after his death, the FBI seized and sealed all his papers.
http://mindprod.com/asbestos.html
***********************************************************
I can’t really find much on Heinz political life, but he is Teresa Heinz Kerry’s 1st husband!
http://discostud.blogspot.com/
<<snip>>
While an article in the New York Times on Saturday pointed out the danger politicians face due to their heavy air travel schedules, the death of a senator or member of Congress is still relatively rare, with only one other sitting U.S. Senator, liberal Republican John Heinz, dying in a plane crash since World War II. Heinz, who entered office as an outspoken opponent of the Vietnam War, later emerged as a strong proponent of health care, social services, public transportation and the environment. He also urged reconciliation with Cuba. He died when the landing gear on his small plane failed to function, and a helicopter dispatched to survey the problem crashed into his plane.
***********************************************************************************

http://museum.lamarpa.edu/jtower.html
<<snip>>
In 1985, President Reagan named Tower to the post of strategic arms negotiator with the Soviet Union. The following year, he appointed Tower to chair a bipartisan committee to investigate the Iran-contra scandal. George Bush nominated Tower for Secretary of Defense in 1989, but critics claimed he had too many ties to defense contractors. His was the first rejection of a cabinet nominee in more than 30 years. Tower later published a book, Consequences: A Personal and Political Memoir, which reflects his bitterness toward those who contributed to his defeat.

Tower had a turbulent personal life, including two divorces. He had three daughters by his first wife, and his daughter Marian also died in the 1991 plane crash that killed her father in Brunswick, Georgia. However, Tower will be remembered by Texans for his long record of service not only to the Republican party but to the people who elected him.
http://www.internetpirate.com/LarkinSmith.htm
<<snip>>
.
Mississippi congressman Larkin Smith died in the blazing crash of his light plane in a densely forested area, the second member of the House killed in an air accident in a week, authorities said today.
Smith, a 45-year-old Republican, threw out the first ball of the Dixie Youth World Series baseball tournament Sunday evening in Hattiesburg, Miss., then left in good weather on a 35-minute flight to Gulfport.
Fifteen minutes later, witnesses heard the plane descend, its single engine still running, WLOX-TV in Biloxi reported.
<<snip>>
"It is my sad duty to announce the death of Congressman Larkin Smith of Mississippi's 5th District," said a shaken aide, John Walker, at a Washington news conference.
Smith's death was confirmed only a day after the discovery of the wreckage of a plane carrying Rep. Mickey Leland (D-Tex.) and 15 other people. They were killed when their plane crashed in heavily forested mountainous terrain last week in Ethiopia.
There is a connection here to something called the Dixie Mafia. This is a group is discussed here. There is a claim of one of it’s member’s that he was approached to kill Larkin. Again they try to tie this to Clinton, but there is strong indication of a Bush tie in. The Larkin “accidented” occurred long before Clinton was in office. In fact George H.W. Bush was in office at the time.
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a38a7958f0fa9.htm
<<snip>>
http://www.questionsquestions.net/docs0209/1101_wellstone.html
Rep. Larkin Smith, D-Miss. was killed in a private plane crash in 1989. At the time he had been working with veterans of U.S. Army Special Forces looking into the deaths of five Green Beret colonels, all of whom had been connected to a covert CIA drug operation known as Watchtower.






http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/first100/937450
<<snip>>
"Mickey Leland and the other members of his traveling party, both American and Ethiopians, were engaged in a noble cause -- trying to feed the hungry," President Bush said.

This is just a strange little tidbit I ran across that sort of ties in another accidented Democrat.
http://www.theradicaltruth.com/Prophetic/84-no-god-only-devil-w.htm
<<snip>>
There is no God, only a devil, and we humans play
God to defeat the devil.
taking Ron Brown's plane crash death especially
hard, because the guy had previously worked for
plane crash victim Mickey Leland!]
<<snip>>
Ron Brown, U.S. Secretary of Commerce, was killed in a 1996 plane crash while on a trade mission to Bosnia. Mickey LeIand, a member of the U.S. House of Representatives, died in a 1989 plane crash while traveling to visit an Ethiopian refugee camp.


<<snip>>
http://www.questionsquestions.net/docs0209/1101_wellstone.html

Rep. Larry McDonald, D-Ga. and the national chairman of the John Birch Society and creator of a private intelligence operation called Western Goals, was killed on KAL 007 after it had mysteriously veered off course on a flight to South Korea and ventured several hundred miles into Soviet territory. The plane was shot down by the Soviet air force. At the time, McDonald's Western Goals was being exposed in an LAPD intelligence scandal linked to massive domestic spying, the CIA and covert operatives …


This is a rather extensive article about McDonald. One thing very interesting is that his widow claims it was no accident.
http://www.maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%20Articles/Who%20Killed%20Larry%20McDonald.html
"While the government has made no such charge, McDonald's widow claims that her husband, the national chairman of the John Birch Society, was 'murdered.' She holds that it was no accident that 'the leading anti-Communist in the American government' had been on a plane that was 'forced into Soviet territory' and shot down."

http://mindprod.com/asbestos.html
<<snip>>
Litton won the primary on 1976-08-03. That evening, Litton, his wife and children were killed when their plane crashed en route to a victory celebration in Kansas City.

http://www.umsystem.edu/whmc/Mohist/aug3.html
<<snip>>
In his four years in the United States House of Representatives, Jerry L. Litton accomplished as much as many congressmen do in their extended careers. A successful cattle rancher, he advocated the rights of farmers and all hardworking citizens. Often referred to as a "breath of fresh air in Washington," Litton impressed his colleagues with his honesty and his political incorruptibility. House majority leader Thomas P. "Tip" O'Neal claimed that in his twenty-two years in Congress he had never been more impressed by a freshman congressman than by Jerry Litton.
<<snip>>
Rather than running for reelection to the House in 1976, Litton decided to seek the seat of retiring U.S. Senator Stuart Symington. He handily defeated the incumbent's son, James Symington, and former governor Warren Hearnes in the Democratic primary on August 3, 1976. The same evening, Litton, his wife, and their two children died in a plane crash just after takeoff from Chillicothe Airport en route to a victory celebration in Kansas City

Apparently Litton had some connection to Watergate
<<snip>>
The office files, arranged alphabetically by type of material, show the workings of Litton's Washington office. Included is material on subjects such as agriculture, federal grants, flood control and water conservation, Watergate, the energy crisis of 1973, and the economy. These topics were of local and national interest, and the material was used to compose letters to constituents.
Not much information out there about this one.
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/02/280706.shtml
<<snip>>
February 14, 1975: California Rep. Jerry Pettis (R). Pettis died when his plane crashed into a mountain near Beaumont, California. His wife, Shirley N. Pettis Roberson, replaced in the House five days later. "People come up to you, with little pieces of memorabilia about your husband, and they mean to show their deep regret in losing him," Pettis Roberson said in a telephone interview
from her home in California. "I had to steel myself against tears, because I thought if I cried now, I would cry forever."
http://www.check-six.com/lib/Famous_Missing/Boggs.htm
<<snip>>
At the time, this was the biggest search in the history of the country, involving 40 military and 20 civilian aircraft. Everything from Coast Guard helicopters and cutters, to Air Force spy aircraft, as well as numerous private aircraft. After thirty-nine days the air search was abandoned.

Again another sneaky Clinton reference. How old was Clinton in 1972. this site contains supposed US Coast Gaurd documents in the case. One refers to sighting of the plane w/ to POB’s “ALIVE”. I’m assuming POB is “people on board,”
<<snip>>
Some of the other interesting points surrounding the disappearance include; Boggs was taken to the airport for the first leg of the trip by a young democrat named Bill Clinton who later, as President, appointed Congressman Boggs' wife, Lindy, to the position of US Ambassador to the Vatican after she served eighteen years in the Congress after her husband's disappearance.
Boggs also served on the Warren Commission that investigated the assassination of John F. Kennedy. Some web sites and conspiracy theorists have reported that Boggs wasn't happy with the commission's findings and was pushing for the investigation to be reopened at the time of his death.
However, according to his daughter Cokie Roberts, the nationally known television journalist, she told listeners to a talk radio show in April 2004 that her father had no problems with the commission's finding that he was not pushing for the investigation into the Kennedy assassination to be reopened. She said, "I just don't know where people get these ideas from."
The host replied, "The Internet."
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. Thank you for pulling this together.
I'm going to bookmark this thread to read later. We have relatives on the way for Christmas.
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truthpusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
18. "The People vs. Bush"...sue for inagural expenses!
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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. I think that is being paid by donors.
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truthpusher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Well then sue for pain and suffering!!
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O.M.B.inOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-04 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #18
91. Sue for 150 Billion and lost credibility
for war waged while not actually president. Half to be paid by Congress that believed that "last resort" rhetoric and surrendered war powers to the chimp.
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Cobalt Violet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
19. He's going to be impeached if he is.
:kick:
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
20. Over my friggin dead body
roger@51capitalmarch.com Ready to Advance the troops


OUr targets are NYC--the headquarters of CBS, NBC, and ABC. And In Washington DC--look out the assualt starts on Jan 2nd untill jan. 6th.
http://www.51capitalmarch.com/


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democrat_patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
21. Until that happens.....keep doing what we're doing.

If/when he does - keep fighting and doing what we're doing.

We're doing this for us, and also to let the world know America is only 53% stupid. There is still hope for us.

The world is laughing at us.

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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
24. You may be right
Glad I will be in class on the 20th instead of watching his smirky a@% being sworn in again. At least Kerry and the gang can explore * as a fraud even though he was in 2001.
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RaulVB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
25. You don't understand what's going on here (n/t)
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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
26. It's ok. Let him be inaugurated. I believe fraud comes under the category
of high crimes and misdemeanors.
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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. ITS NOT ok... we have no branch of Government.. PROTEST on the 6th. nt
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bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
27. The time to be pragmatic is waaaaaaaaay over. Have you seen what
* has wrought in just 6 weeks before he is coronated for his second shot at destroying our country. If he is in office again, life during wartime will become a permanent state of being plus economic armageddon. We can't afford 4 more years of * period. Perhpas a look over at 'Peak Oil' group on DU and some reading there will help you understand what we face with this administration still in power.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
30. If challenge happens; what happens on 20 Jan 2005 is purely speculative
Focus on making that challenge happen on 6 Jan 2005. That is what matters to any hope of saving the current American franchise of democracy.

Peace.
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Griffy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
31. Maybe if you stopped being a naysayer... AND BE IN DC ON THE 6th!!
Look.. I know its a longshot.. but when your downa in the fourth quater, you dont leave the field, or tell your fellow players.. we lost, so dont fight to win.... It is this roll over and wait for the next time that is handing these crooks our country! On the 20th.. we will see who is president... if its bush we will regroup and fight on... but stop telling us its over.. in fact.. you should listen to those of us SCREAMING for you to join us.. it is the scared, lazy and dispondent dems that are the most dissapointing. The election was stolen... not mild fraud.. STOLEN... so why would I conceed that bush will be prez, fight for the truth.. we all know its unlikly... stop reminding us and start helping! (nothing personal. I bet you've done alot... it just that we dont need any defeatist ideas.. we can all see its a hail mary)
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
34. delegitimacizing and a cloud hanging over Bush works for me
bring it on!
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alexisfree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
36. is really nice to see it...
happening all this energy that we have after the slap in the face, we are getting energized to fight for our believes...once again like the months before Election Day the felling is back!!! JAN.6 -JAN 20 ----GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!!!! LIBERALS WE ARE HERE TO STAY!!!. :toast:
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organik Donating Member (217 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
37. Bush comes out slightly ahead?
Edited on Thu Dec-23-04 02:38 PM by organik
What do you base that upon, that Kerry was leading in pre-election and exit polls? What's your rationale?

I think a better guess would be that Kerry comes out slightly ahead.

I also happen to believe it was widespread fraud...and the suppression issue alone could have cost Kerry the presidency.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. There you go!
All of that makes sense. ;)
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #37
62. I'd be fine with Bush being president
IF and only if it turns out he was legitimately and honestly elected by a majority of American voters.
That doesn't mean that I don't feel it would be a disaster for this country, but I do mean that we have to respect a fair and honest election--it's the law.

But--until we know that it was fair, let the recounts go on and on!
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
40. WTF????
After all that has been exposed re: election fraud, what world are you posting from? Slightly ahead??????? OMG!
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GetTheRightVote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
44. I dare to say no way to you, We will have our officially elected Pres

It is time for us to stand and fight against the evil which attempts to rob us of our election and Democracy. There is no time for whining or crying but only for action. Pick up your signs, your ribbons, your guns (ooppssss) and march into Washington as has any group whose rights have been stolen from them. We will be joining Martin Luther King Jr. years after his death in a stance he took against disenfransized rights of your own as well as other citizens with which we live everyday. We will hold up those values and beliefs this Jan 3 & 6 because that is how powerfully they hold us still today. They are American values passed onto us by birth and we hold them so dear to us it is as if they are the air we breathe. With every breath we grow stronger in them, without them we shall perish. I for one would rather live fighting for them because any other air is to polluted.
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corbett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
45. Beauty Of Kerry's Strategy
Moments like this are perfect to remind ourselves about the purpose behind the weeks and weeks of virtual silence from Senators Kerry and Edwards. You don't think that they've taken into account just how difficult it will be to unseat the shrub?? Of course they have! The whole point of lying low and speaking through their lawyers and surrogates like the good Reverend Jesse Jackson is that they have to seem like they don't expect the outcome to change. Then, when the moment is right, hit the enemy with everything they have!

The reason the shrub won't be inaugurated again is that the repukes in Congress will have no choice. It won't be a matter of simply having questionable/illegal results from Ohio. It won't simply be a matter of having fraudlent results from Florida. It won't simply be a matter of having a 14th Amendment challenge in Congress. It won't simply be a matter of demonstrating not just widespread fraud and voter disenfranchisement but racially-based fraud. It will be all of things and more hitting at the same time.

You see, it's a multipronged attack. The repukes will have irrefutable evidence hitting them from every angle. In warfare, they have a name for that:

SURROUNDED!


http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=4816
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noclonyofthechimp Donating Member (656 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. WAHOO! I AM LOVIN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
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bones_7672 Donating Member (558 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #45
69. Oh, yeah, the Kerry Edwards strategy worked SOOO WELL before the
election (oh, wait, it didn't!)
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Der Blaue Engel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #69
77. You mean they didn't win??
(Oh, wait, they did.) See messages re: FRAUD.
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #77
79. A 10! for your post... LOL! You go on wit yer bad self. n/t
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Generator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
46. Bet he is too, but
Edited on Thu Dec-23-04 03:58 PM by Generator
Aren't we going to enjoy the impeachment all that much more?

I am.

I really am believing that is what is going to happen here.

Call me crazy-but there is something different this time than in 2000-like a country that is slowly waking up to the fact it's all lies.

Now we are the losers, we have nothing to lose!!!!!
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RevCheesehead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #46
86. Yeah - kind of like "fool me once, shame on you...
...fool me twice, shame on ME."

Ol' Georgie is so used to people looking the other way - boy, is he in for a surprise that WE AREN'T GOING TO TAKE IT!!
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
49. Not necessarily >>>
If we can get Senators standing up NOW to declare their intent to object, we can get public opinion into the game.

Should a successful objection be lodged and supported by both house of Congress on Jan. 6th. The real question is what happens then, and as it is a political (not legal) question, there is no clear answer at this point.

Even the electoral college "score" would carry very little weight at that point because, as someone mentioned above, demonstrated election theft in Ohio would cast a very large shadow on the results in a large number of other states.

Now, I have heard reports that the Dems from Ohio will be sending their slate of electors along to Congress, as the recount result is still pending. And they can do this at any time, no "deadlines" exist. This would give Congress the easiest out. They could count those as lawful and Kerry would win outright 272-266.

I know it's hard to imagine any Reps participating in such an outcome, as they would need to. But it's one thing to stand by while someone else is having their crony friends puts a fix in that affords you plausible deniability (even to your own conscience). It's quite another to stare down the barrel of 70% negative public opinion.

Remember the failed impeachment. The Reps in the Senate were beside themselves trying to ditch that tar baby. And this time it wouldn't just be 70% thinking they should Moveon. It would be 70% of the public thinking that there's treason afoot.

And they thought they had an image problem with Gingrich around.

www.thedeanpeople.org
__

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Doctor O Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #49
68. There is a slight problem with your theory
Edited on Thu Dec-23-04 06:10 PM by Doctor O
The Republican Governor of Ohio must certify the electors and their vote.

Also the recount has happened with no change to the vote.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-04 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #68
99. No, there is no "must"...
...about any of this.

Congress can take any action it deems fit, with any information it has at hand. That includes appointing "by law" an acting, interim president.

The Ohio Dems can and should send their slate of electors to the archivist. If Congress deems them valid, with a big push from public opinon, they are counted as valid. End of story.

And any recount outcome is irrelevant if the electors are objected to based on the suppression. There is no question that poor minority voters were forced to wait in hours-long poll-tax-lines, while affluent, white voters were not.

That is the simple question we are putting to Senators and Reps (www.thedeanpeople.org):

Is this something you are willing to become complicit with?

This is not theory. It is the law, as written.

Congress is the safety valve for bogus, racist vote tallies.

We're just demanding that they do their sworn duty to defend the Constitution.

__
www.thedeanpeople.org



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mbee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
52. There is no reason on earth that he should be inaugurated
and this nonsense has gone far enough. It is time for the voters to stand up and be counted and send him on his way. 4 bogus years is more than anyone can put up with, especially the families of the lost human life in Iraq. Enough is enough!
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bones_7672 Donating Member (558 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #52
70. And Ohio says the votes have been counted, and Bush won.
It's done, there will be no change in the outcome. Even if Boxer or another Senator joins Conyers, the full House and Senate will never let Kerry/Edwards be sworn in. And no amount of email, phone calls, or sign-carrying protesters on 1/6 will make a difference. All the Repubs have to do is look at the recount result and say "Bush won, get over it."
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Der Blaue Engel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #70
80. Oh, gosh, you're right
That's it. Give up everybody! Bones has spoken!
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
53. If so, fine. Impeachment will be so much more sweet.
NGU.


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satori Donating Member (198 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
56. Bush will be president until 2008
Edited on Thu Dec-23-04 04:58 PM by satori
I have reviewed all of this. Though I am not a lawyer it seems to me it is technically impossible to overturn the election. Why? It seems to me that even if Kerry files a motion for a recount with the Greens and a motion to impound the machines that it is to late to have computer geeks go over all of the data in them in time to have the courts overturn the election.

My guess is the court will just stall any decision about impounding until the last minute. If Kerry was serious he would of filed lawsuits in every state and Federal Court in the country.

And think about it even if he does win in the courts to impound the machines and they find fraud, that would mean that they would have to do a revote you cannot revote on machines that cannot count so you have to have a paper ballot or new machines for the revote. They cannot do a revote because Kerry never asked for it nor did the Greens.

I'm sorry to say it but the Dems were Roved in 2000 in 2002 and in 2004. And instead of becoming more liberal they are going more to the right, and Conyers and Moore are doing exactly what Rove wants.

Each day that passes is more time that benefits Rove. He is laughing now as he was laughing in 2000 when he picked Kerry to run for the Dems because they know that if they can pick whom will fight for us and as well define how we will fight(such as Conyers and Moore) that they will always win.

Rove and the Republicans are celebrating they just won the election in 2008.
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #56
65. IIRC 100 years ago just that happened--went to challenge
congress voted--- It did happen IIRC
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shiina Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
67. If you want to be cynical, then how about this?
Politicians will always try to stay in the good graces of the people with the most power...it's necessary to stay alive, politically. They're also extremely quick to disassociate themselves with anyone who's going down. It takes a long time for someone as high up as * to go down, but they can go down. * has been making lots and lots of enemies over the last 4 years...in the military, in the intelligence communities, in Congress, everywhere. He's got lots of negative political capital built up. That kind of stuff matters in Washington. It matters a lot.

All that negative political capital all builds up, sticks together with the election fraud stuff like a snowball. Right now it may feel like we're pushing the snowball up a mountain, but sooner or later, we have to hit that peak. Once that snowball starts going down the other side, we're going to see some spectacular avelanches.

I don't know if we'll hit that peak by Jan 6th, or Jan 20th. But godammit, I know it's there and I know that all we have to do is keep pushing. Pessimistically, I give the * 6 months max. He's got more snow than Santa. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
71. Maybe so.
But if it happens, and any of this pans out to show there is a "there" there, we're gonna have us a good old-fashioned impeachment. Criminal is criminal -- period. Either way, it's beginning to look a lot like Christmas.
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Doctor O Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. You make an very strong supposition that
Fraud will be traced back to Bish and/or the campaign.
I would be willing to bet that ANY HARD PROOF will never get back to the campaign nor rove nor b* nor cheney.
and if that does not happen he will still be President.
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. But, what then?
America would just accept that it was some rogue campaigner doing his part for the cause? Acting alone in the woods? A "lone gunman" if you will?

Either way a black-eye is a black-eye. Even old "I don't recall" Ronnie had to get up and testify. I'll take impeachment, I'll take a second-term scandal, I'll take any sort of take-down of the BFEE.

I still believe that all of this will point to a dismantling of the cabal and render it neutered and illegitimate. With everything else going so poorly for * already (think dead kids in Iraq), I do not believe that America would rally behind any sort of verifiable "shenanigaii" which put them in power illegally.

I think ol' Prosecutor Kerry, et. al. are getting the facts together and will make the case. Maybe I've got rose-colored glasses on, but damn it, I want my country back. It's Christmas and I'm feelin' positive. :)
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-04 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #72
94. Yeah and Nixon
thought that it wouldn't get traced back to him, either. Ha.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
76. Well, if that does happen, then we move to Phase II
Impeachment.

With the clouds of election fraud, the downtrend in the safety of Iraq (expect Jan. 30 to be a bloodbath), the snatching of Social Security and the ever-burdeoning debt, I'm pretty sure the American people might get behind an impeachment effort as soon as 2006.
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cosmicdot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
78. history must record that we stood up for our country ...
for there's a bigger picture ... a more important aspect to "Bush is Still Going to be Inaugurated" - and, it's "history" - the recording of events ... if nothing else ...

the historic significance 'of it all' transcends everything

our country, our Constitution, our democracy, our destiny have been usurped ...

it's so vital, imo, that this crisis be played out to its fullest ...

so what if he's inaugurated ... he's going down in history with another big asterisk next to his name ... his illegitimacy must be duly chronicled regardless of how it all plays out ... for all ages to see and know ... let the Ohio Republicans use its machinery to further add to the fraud ... history is taking names ... let a Republican-controlled House seal 'the Big Lie' upon which our destiny is being hijacked ... some dare call it treason ... I do ... future historians must have the story lived out fully ... every possible primary source needs to be made available in order to truthfully write 'this chapter' ... and, the Republicans must have every opportunity to show just how treasonous they are ...

we owe it, not only for the sake of current times, but, also, to future generations

and, hopefully, some Senators will join congressional challenges to the electors ... they will make history, too ...

this is as important as our Founding







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rzemanfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
81. Agreement from here.
This fight is for history, not for the present. It would take a revolt of the military to get Bush out of the White House right now. Kerry needs to step up and challenge the election. They will call him every name in the book, but history will call him the rightful President of the United States of America. If he doesn't he will be Al Gore the Second.
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wrate Donating Member (376 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
82. Which is the wilder dream: 1) To think that * won't be inaugurated or
2) To think that you can clean up the election process while * is in power (owning all branches of the American Government as it is)????

American's are screwed beyond their understanding. This Ohio thing is just a repeat of Florida 2000. Still, NOTHING was done to clean up the election process in this last four years. BBV has been talked about here since years ago, yet it was unstoppable. And so now you have Ohio. In four years you'll have California or Nevada or New Mexico or......

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Georgia_Dem Donating Member (117 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-23-04 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. I'd like to think Kerry will be inaugurated, but I doubt it
First up, I gotta say that protests will do no good in my opinion. It's been a long, long time since protests amounted to too much. Possibly not since the rights movement. After all, there was protest after protest against Vietnam, but it wasn't until it was clear that it had become a lost war that we pulled outta there.

So overturning the election is pretty much up to Jesse Jackson, John Kerry, and all those other guys. But this leads me to something I've feared might be the case since before the so-called election. What if
there aren't enough missing votes to hand Ohio to Kerry? What if so many votes were switched or outright eliminated without a trace that Recounts won't produce any results other than a Bush victory? If that's the case, nothing short of assassination will stop Bush from being inaugurated.

If there are enough votes, I see one of two scenarios:

1) Bush again fights the attempts to clean up the shitty electoral system. Thanks to a combination of expensive lawyers, a Republican controlled justice system, and some favors to call in, Bush is virtually unbeatable.

2) The Ohio result is declared void, passing the decision to Congress. The extremists, Fox News, and AM radio stop the percentage of the American people who think the election was stolen from rising above 55%. Therefore, the Republicans are not pressured into electing Kerry. If anything, they'll be pressured into electing Bush since they might otherwise get demonized and hurt politically by Tom DeLay.

Is there a chance of Kerry becoming president? Of course there is. If
I had to look into 10 sci-fi style alternate realities, Kerry would be inaugurated in 2 or 3 of them, so it might be worth staking $25.00
on.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-04 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #82
95. how about this option:
3) Prosecutor Kerry spends the next few years exposing and proving all the fraud perpetrated by the Republicans. Because of the public's awareness of his having truly deserved the presidency in 2004, he wins the Dem primary and, because the elections will be verified by then, the White House.
(gee--what a guy has to do these days to get into the White House...)

:eyes:
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Georgia_Dem Donating Member (117 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-04 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #95
96. Maybe.
If he was an important part of fixing the electoral system, he could do it.
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googly Donating Member (801 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-24-04 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
93. Yap, Bush gets inaugurated on Jan 20th, impeached on July 20th
I hope he can't ruin the country in 6 months.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-25-04 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #93
100. I like your prediction...nt
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