What Happens If fraud is discovered?

[MellowOne]

Would Ohio redo the whole election process? Florida is looking into possible fraud in their state as well. If there is fraud in one state chances are pretty good there is fraud in other states. What would happen?

[berniew1]

1. vote machine fraud has been documented

http://northnet.org/alpage.htm Youngstown for Ohio

and http://www.flcv.com/fraudpat.html
for Florida and New Mexico

[Griffy]

26. WHEN.. its a matter of WHEN not if !! nt

[dobegrrrl]

2. I don't know, but I think they should go to prison after

being found guilty of high crimes in the impeachment trial.
:party:

[Benhurst]

8. Have we no scaffolds? Are all the gallows gone?

[hoosierblue]

31. The gallows is too good for them.

Abu Ghraib is the only place for them.

:evilgrin:

[knowbody0]

3. a whole bunch of folk would go to prison

heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[On the Road]

4. It Would Have to be on a Scale to Swing the Election

but at that point, all bets are off. There is no direct legal precedent that I know of at the federal level.

[sportndandy]

5. Is your subject a freudian slip?

The fraud is under-cover. It has to be uncovered.

[unblock]

7. fraud practically HAS to be undercover for it to succeed

except for banana republicans, they can get away with fraud in plain view.

[Darkhawk32]

6. If Kenneth Blackwell KNOWLINGLY certified a fraudulent election....

His ass goes to jail!

[New Earth]

9. you can put money on that

at least i would.

[MellowOne]

10. OK they all go to jail BUT

does the US hold another election?

[SteveIrving1]

12. High treason...

I'm pretty sure that election fraud on this level falls into the category of treason, or it should.

[MissBrooks]

11. But... if fraud is uncovered...

and * is impeached....

Cheney becomes president - Not Kerry!

[CountAllVotes]

13. the ticket read Bush/CHENEY 2004

Not just *.

:kick:

[MissBrooks]

14. Ok...

But if we don't get this done before 1/20... what happens?

[bush_is_wacko]

20. But the request for testimonial under oath goes to Bush,, Cheney, Rove,

and Blackwell. Hastert is next in line after Cheney, as we have already determined. This situation is, however ,completely unprecedented and I really think it will have huge impacts on EVERYTHING in this country! If the fraud is PROVEN, you would absolutely have to conclude that it DID have an impact the entire election. The fraud has extended to the recount efforts, so I'm not sure it can ever be determined IF any of the votes are legitimate! Maybe our New Years Resolution is going to be a lot more profound than losing those extra pounds this year! Where do we go from that point? I think we have to start creating laws to deal with it. I just don't see how our Constitution addresses this situation. Since we have a war going on, we really need to have some sort of, at the very least, temporary, leadership!

[democrat_patriot]

15. Waddya mean "IF"?? There is fraud.

[CountAllVotes]

17. widespread fraud too!

They had those damn machines in places where illiteracy rates were high. Easy to just "touch" the machine to vote. However, the "touch" was for * every time. The fix was in. Now it is being exposed.

What a mess Kerry will inherit if the table turns the other way re: all of this. *whew*

Stay tuned for coming attractions it seeems!

:dem:

[KaliTracy]

16. finding out who knew what, when, where, and why, and how it

was acheived will be a big task. TRIAD may very well be the scapegoat, and no one will go to jail if no one was in on anything they might have tried to do (after all, it's only an allegation at this point...)

as to what happens to a state that has INVALID votes... I'd say that to error on the side of reason, that another vote would have to take place -- but how? At this point the machines aren't trusted. so that leaves paper and pencil. and unless STRICT rules were enforced regarding paper ballots, it might very well be a fiasco trying to pull something like that together before the 6th.

Blackwell had no right to hold on to the "Certification process" as long as he did -- and has a Lot of explaining to do if he, indeed, knew nothing. But, one may think, if he knew nothing, then why not make this whole proces transparent,and give the volunteers the information they requested?

[dlaliberte]

23. Indeed, what might happen?

I'm not sure about the timing, but Ohio's electoral votes could be discounted by Congress (on Jan 6?) rather than forcing any more recounts or even a revote. The electoral vote would then be Bush 266, Kerry 252. So Kerry would still lose.

So a reversal or revote (resulting in Kerry winning Ohio) would be required to change the overall result.

Of course, if we got as far as waking up Congress to investigate the fraud, investigations in other states, such as Florida, New Mexico, etc, would call into question the whole thing. We really need a nationwide revote to do this properly. At best, we will have a constitutional crisis.

Play with the maps at: Meta-Analysis of State Polls - election.princeton.edu

[many a good man]

35. 269 electoral votes needed or else thrown to the House

Winner must have a MAJORITY of electoral votes. 266 is NOT 269. Therefore the election of President gets decided in the House of Representatives, according to our Constitution.

[goclark]

32. I want them charged for treason TODAY

The question that I have is how looooooog can they drag this out?

If the FRAUD had been done by Democrats they would have been in leg irons right now.

Since the crooks are Republicons, we may hear about the case being dismissed within 1 minute of the filing.

Please give me more hope I truly want to be optimistic!

[FogerRox]

18. Me and 5 million peeps go marching

http://www.51capitalmarch.com/

[shiina]

19. After 1/20... I think we have to impeach

I remember hearing about this on Countdown...Olbermann asked what if after the inaguration there was absolute proof of massive fraud and the "winner" was directly involved. The guy basically shrugged and said "too late".

[k8conant]

30. That was Jonathan Turley of GWU, I believe... n/t

[Pacifist Patriot]

21. Is Florida looking into it?

I'm sitting in Central Florida and hearing a whole lot of nothing. I've gotten a pat on the head from local election officials, state folks, my senators and congressman and the newspaper editors around here. The latter have unilaterally decided that vote fraud is a non-story.

I do not intend to sound snarky at all, but honestly I am seeing absolutely no evidence of any movement in Florida other than a lot of back patting that we aren't in the media spotlight like 2000.

[gulogulo]

24. If you want proof of fraud, why don't you

personally go and recount the ballots yourself? If you find wild discrepancies, there is your proof.

After the "canvassing period" ends, the election records - ballots and polling books - become public record. This means that anyone can recount them if they pay for the county workers' time that it takes.

If there is (as there seems to be) a big group of DUers that is convinced that there was fraud, and who are interested in uncovering it regardless of the fact that it won't install Kerry as president - why not collect the money and do those recounts? Ohio, Florida, New Mexico - anywhere you like?

Miami Herald has already done this in 3 counties in Florida. I have seen reports of some people doing it on their own in other counties in Florida. I believe the cost of the recount in those counties was $10/hour for the time that it takes.

"But it will be too late" - too late for what? Too late to have Kerry as president - assuredly. But not too late to prove fraud, and taint Bush's second term - if massive fraud is proven.

The cost in Florida is $10/hr. The people at www.recountflorida.com managed to recount 2500 ballots in 5 hours - that was 2 precincts. So, as you see, the expense to you would be minimal, and the result, if you actually find the fraud you sure exists, would be huge.

So - why aren't you doing it?

[Pacifist Patriot]

33. Oh well let's see.

I've got three small children at home, I'm working on a doctorate and I'm doing what I can to donate money to people who are working on the problem. I give as much time as I can muster to contacting the media, government officials and NGOs devoted to uncovering fraud. Thank you for the link, I do appreciate it since this is the first I've heard of it. But back off on the lecture if you don't mind. Not all of us have the same access to time and energy.

[Gregorian]

22. Nothing? That's what has happened so far.

Media blackouts. Scandal after scandal after illegal war after stolen election, and so far- nothing. Why would it change now?

[Old Mouse]

25. The situation is unprecedented

If we succeed in proving fraud, the inevitable conclusions that result will show the mechanism to illegally take office has been in place and has been used for some time.

The public, the overwhelming majority of the population of the United States, will have to accept that the people with the authority to level charges and convict are in fact the one perpetrating the crime.

Will they admit their own guilt and willingly go to jail for what would undoubtedly be a very long time? They have shown little nobility to date.

When in the Course of human events...

[november3rd]

27. If?

hours-long lines
machine shortage
voter challenges
bush electronic default
90,000+ uncounted ballots
same captain & referee
recount impediments

And that's only in OHIO!

... "If?"

[shraby]

28. It may well be the first time in the history

of the country that we would have to have another election for president..with no Republican candidate for President. If the Republican party and Bush are complicit in the fraud, they certainly can't run Bush on the Republican ticket.
If we have to have a revote, we have to scream loud for paper and pen only.

[ginnyinWI]

36. couldn't the supreme court just give it to Kerry instead? n/t

[MellowOne]

29. I should have said "When"

Like you point out, there are way too many incidents of fraud. The truth will have to come out. When it's all exposed, what will this do to our country? Could it start an avalanche of uncovered corruption?

[malatesta1137]

34. you should ask Kerry these questions

Only his response is the one that matters, everyone else's is worthless.