Times hops into Ohio voting fray...

[rawstory]

Posted to LBN but thought it would be perhaps even more relevant here...

Voting Problems in Ohio Spur Call for Overhaul
By JAMES DAO, FORD FESSENDEN and TOM ZELLER Jr.


COLUMBUS, Ohio, Dec. 22 - William Shambora, 53, is the kind of diligent voter who once assumed that his ballot always counted. He got a rude awakening this year.

Mr. Shambora, an economics professor at Ohio University, moved during the summer but failed to notify the Athens County Board of Elections until the day before the presidential election. An official told him to use a provisional ballot.

But under Ohio law, provisional ballots are valid only when cast from a voter's correct precinct. Mr. Shambora was given a ballot for the wrong precinct, a fact he did not learn until after the election. Two weeks later, the board discarded his vote, adding him to a list of more than 300 provisional ballots that were rejected in that heavily Democratic county.

"It seems like such a confused system," said Mr. Shambora, a John Kerry supporter who blames himself for the mistake. "Maybe if enough people's votes had counted, the election might have turned out differently."

From seven-hour lines that drove voters away to malfunctioning machines to poorly trained poll workers who directed people to the wrong polling places to uneven policies about the use of provisional ballots, Ohio has become this year's example for every ailment in the United States' electoral process.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/24/national/24vote.html?ei=5088&en=0e0adbe08ff79c22&ex=1261544400&partner=rssnyt&pagewanted=print&position=

At last -- it's not everything one could hope for -- and where the hell is Conyers in this article? But it does raise the critical questions -- why were there LESS voting machines in certain Dem/minority counties and MORE in suburban counties (which supported bush)?

Thoughts? What's missing -- besides the obvious more recent stuff? What are you impressed with? Etc.

[Clark2008]

1. I'm impressed they didn't call us

"tin-foil hatters" or "sore losers" or "bitter enders."

[Carolab]

8. Or dissidents n/t

[Clark2008]

9. Next, the extremist right will be calling us

"insurgents."

[Patsy Stone]

10. Still enjoy "dissidents!" We're in fine comapny! n/t

[liam97]

2. Still very little meat

but I am surprised by the comment of the Ohio Dem at the end

[anamandujano]

3. excellent, only one thing really bothers me

"Democratic officials have joined Republicans in arguing that any conspiracy to deny Mr. Kerry votes would have required Democratic complicity, because each of Ohio's 88 county election boards has two Democrats and two Republicans."

I'm starting to believe that the repukes have a lot of deep cover people posing as democrats to join in with the spin at crucial times like this, for example the repuke Lepore, high ranking enough in the dem party to design a ballot.

No serious weight can be given to the bull from these "democrats".

Otherwise, the article was quite good.

[Goldeneye]

4. I may be off...

but why would the democrats need to be in on it? I guess it depends on how they cheated. I'm 99.9% sure there was fraud, but why would democrats help Bush win. So either they weren't in on it, or they are undercover republicans. The former seems more likely to me.

[IndyOp]

6. I think that very few, if any, of the local Repubs

(excepting Damschroder) know anything about the election fraud. They feel insulted that people are questionning their competence and honesty, the want for the election to be *over* and they are getting lots of 'coaching' about what to think about the recounts from higher ups -- the recounts are a waste of your time, fraud just isn't possible.

The good man in charge of elections in our small town was somewhat upset when a newspaper reporter asked for his reaction about our passing a City Council resolution in favor of fair and transparent elections. He is super-confident that the MicroVote touchscreen systems are perfectly secure and they print out a document at the end of the day showing the sequence of 'votes' from everyone who used the machine. The only people he hears from are the sales reps from the voting machine company and he doesn't understand that software can be written or internal modems placed inside the machine to alter the data stored before it is printed.

Neither the Dems or Repubs in Ohio understand how it could happen without their knowing it, they are surrounded by others with similar beliefs, and most people involved with elections at a local level are super-honest people -- if they aren't cheaters, they won't be able to detect people who are cheating.

I watched the video of the Triad tech at truthout.org today -- and he looks like he really doesn't know anything major about what might be being perpetrated by his bosses. He looked kinda uncomfortable about a few 'shortcuts' he took in posting the 'cheat sheet' -- but his bosses told him they just want to help out their good, honest customers at the BOE's. Gotta keep the customers happy or you might loose business. Honest people have a hard time recognizing that their bosses may be crooks, just like honest citizens have a hard time recognizing that their elections may have been hijacked by crooks.

:eyes:

[Carolab]

11. This entire argument (started by Blackwell) is entirely spurious

as I am sure most Democrats on the BoEs didn't know what Triad or anyone else was doing at the machine level. That's pretty clear, to me, anyway. Lots of people are complete techno-dummies and I think even if they saw fraudulent activities happening right in front of them, they wouldn't necessarily "get it". Otherwise I think we'd have heard a lot more about the type of things Ms. Eaton reported. In fact, I am quite sure there are others who have made statements or who are ready to from whom we've not yet heard. This is no doubt part of the discovery that needs to proceed from a lawsuit that is allowed to move forward.

[Patsy Stone]

12. They wouldn't.

As we've all become experts in this merde by now, we all know it could be one person in Guam.

More information getting out, more bad information getting out, less complete information getting out. I'd say we're in the SOP part of our show: Nothing to see here, move along.

At least there's a story on the front page of the NYT. Kerry Christmas.

[Goldeneye]

13. Your post gave me something new to think about

Do Ohioan have access to these BOE democrats? Can you show them the info we've been looking at?

This is unrelated, but its interesting and I think everyone should check it out

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x192398

[Scout1071]

5. I wondered this as well because

before the august primary, I was reading up on my local Dem candidates. I was trying to decide which Dem to vote for to challenge a favored Repug incumbent. Anyway, looking at their websites, I noticed that there was very little info on one of the dem candidates. His website said that (to paraphrase) "He couldn't think of any issues in which he disagreed with the Repug candidate." Unlike most candidates, there were no photos and very little information. I was flabbergasted. I called my state Dem office and they said he was just doing it to challenge the Dem. Saddest part? He believe heactually won, then withdrew from the race.

[anamandujano]

7. #4, #5, #6--I agree with all of you

[shraby]

15. I know if my husband were working at

the polls, he wouldn't be aware of any problems with any of the e-voting machines...he doesn't even know what a modem is. I know cause I mentioned modem to him today and he said "what's a modem"?
He's computer illiterate by choice, and I'm sure a lot of poll workers who are elderly are the same way. Computers scare a lot of them..they think a computer is too complicated.

[wlubin]

14. No mention about Warren county who lied and said the terrorists were

coming so they could lock out all of the poll watchers at the end of the day when they counted the votes.