freepers: A PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE OF THE FRAUD IN KING COUNTY

[impeach the gop]

Can somebody tell me why the hell they're getting
their panties in such a wad over this photo?

I don't see fraud myself. But I'm no expert. Anyone
care to shed some light?

Thanks

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1307767/posts

[FrankBooth]

1. Hey Freepers

GET OVER IT!

[Cobalt Violet]

2. Sounds like a bunch of nut-job conspiracy theories.

:P :tinfoilhat:

[Niche]

5. Side note: Colbalt, that's a beautiful picture did you paint it?

P.S. since when did DU spend so much time in freep land? What is it we're looking at in this photo?

[Cobalt Violet]

12. I don't know what that photo is suppose to prove.

It's fun to see them get so upset about fraud and yet be blind to how they have been the perps of SO much fraud.

And yes that is a painting of mine in my signature. I'm glad you like it.

[truthpusher]

3. It looks like a bubble was not filled in..

...however, as usual, the photo and/or evidence? is totally unsubstantiated.

[impeach the gop]

4. What is a bubble?

Is it the mark to the left of name?

[truthpusher]

6. if you look closely there are ovals (bubbles) to the left of the names...

...the bubble needs to be filled in completely in order for the scanner to pick it up.

on edit: it is not the black marks you see - look to the right of them.

[impeach the gop]

11. Is it the faint oval just to right of black mark?

cause my eyesight isn't to sharp, but that's all
I can see. And it looks like each name has a shade
of that oval shape. Am I close?

I vote on that same kind of ballot. But I've never
noticed any marks other than my black mark. But
once I finish ballot, I shoot it into the machine
that hopefully reads it correctly. So my next question
is, does the bubble only show up after ballot is scan?

[truthpusher]

41. yep that's it n/t

[caligirl]

7. Freepers are morons, Blackwell and Ohio, New election??

from the freeper puc's, Its only fraud when they don't like the outcome.
Take a good hard look at the Ohio voter suppression run by the GOP who is under a 20 year old court order to stop this shit.
You want a new election in any state you think you deserve, And the Washinton Repugs have a spine, they did their job and put the voter first not the Blackwell/Bush/ Katherine Harris Politics of party first voters DEAD LAST.

Yes, but fraud is fraud. It should never be tolerated from ANYONE. It usurps the will of the people. It is akin to treason and should be treated as such.

17 posted on 12/23/2004 11:00:57 PM PST by superskunk (Quinn's Law: Liberalism always produces the exact opposite of it's stated intent.)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies >
To: Ken H; superskunk

The black series of marks are edge borders, guides for the machines. If you look closely you can see ovals beside the candidate names. None are darkened. This was not a real vote. Some worker, I suspect, added the stray mark to the edge of the ballot. If they didn't, if a voter actually made that mark, there's no fair way to determine intent, and the ballot should be discarded. It's too odd that there are no marked ovals anywhere on the page, and wouldn't someone so confused as to what to do end up circling the name? Further, should someone so confused be considered capable of voting?

18 posted on 12/23/2004 11:02:07 PM PST by alessandrofiaschi
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies >
To: alessandrofiaschi

The manual recount only brought more uncertainty as to the actual results of the Governor's race. The charade that is King County's election office can not be allowed to be the sole deciding factor in who becomes Governor. The only possible way for our State Government to maintain its claim of legitimacy is to hold a new election.

19 posted on 12/23/2004 11:04:32 PM PST by Libertarianize the GOP (Make all taxes truly voluntary)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies >
To: superskunk

The GOP should learn from this and be ready to out-fraud the _____'ers next time. We are smarter than they are . We can do it easily.

[shraby]

8. Wonder where the pic of the ballot

came from? No provenance.

edited to add

[Niche]

9. URGENT: They need to send that photo to the gop RIGHT NOW!

They're so smart over there. Can't you SEE the fraud on that ballot?

[Cobalt Violet]

13. It will be all over FAUX News 24/7 for a month.

[RC]

10. What happened to playing by the rules?

(From slightly less than half way down.)
To: superskunk

The GOP should learn from this and be ready to out-fraud the _____'ers next time. We are smarter than they are . We can do it easily.

20 posted on 12/23/2004 11:05:02 PM PST by lwoodham
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replie[br />


I guess it's not about how you play, it's winning at any costs.

[Miami Liberal]

14. WTF does that prove? n/t

[Patsy Stone]

15. Best Quote I could find

"Democrats here are vile, arrogant, and power-hungry. And it's scary."

Have you met a vile, arrogant power-hungry Dem in Seattle? If so, let's get them to run in 2008.

They are worried that this was counted as a vote for Gregoire because of the mark on the left side by the line. Was this a full-on hand recount? If so, and this was counted for Gregoire, they may have a point, or it could be argued that this ballot is or is not really a vote for Gregoire. If this was run through the machine and it picked up as a vote for Gregoire, too bad.

They also believe that the Governor's race wouldn't be the only one that someone voted for (regardless of the ballot's legitimacy) they don't, however, seem to have a problem with the fact that 93K ballots in Ohio didn't registed any vote for President.

We all see what we want to see.

[Cyclical]

16. Fraud is fraud

"Yes, but fraud is fraud. It should never be tolerated from ANYONE. It usurps the will of the people. It is akin to treason and should be treated as such."

"If fraud can be prove, they should get very lengthy prison terms. They cannot be permitted to impose their own de facto leader on the people."

Wow, it seems like they DO agree with us on something!

So then, they won't get mad when we lead W and Darth Cheney off in leg irons, right? Because, after all, fraud is fraud! And they wouldn't want to impose a de facto leader on the people, would they?

I hope they picked good medicine, cos they'll get a big ol' taste of it come soon. :D

Edited to include another germaine quote

[Alizaryn]

17. Fraud is fraud is fraud is fraud...

If its a legitimate problem they found..go for it, investigate it, I don't begrudge them that.

Perhaps their concerns will enable them to begin to empathize
with some of the things we have been feeling regarding the presidential election?

REAL inequities occurred.
We have REAL questions.

Maybe they will begin to understand and stop the refusal to understand that this ultimately means as much to them.

The election system NEEDS to be fixed!

[saracat]

18. Looks like the person connected the line next to

Grigoire's name as opposed to filling in the "bubble"! Seems like an opti scan voter used to connecting lines. The intent is clear though.It isn't just a "stray mark" It is a definite intense mark next to Grigoire.

[delphine]

38. Guys, tell me what you have in your counties:

Here in Los Angeles, the ballots are simply scantron sheets that we slide into a slot. The actual candidates' names are on a fixed "booklet" inside the voting booth.

We stick the ballot in and flip the pages of the booklet to see what we're voting for.

I.e., the candidates' names do not appear on the actual ballot that is counted. It is a numbered scantron sheet which after you vote now has circles to indicate your votes(we have "dots" instead of hole punches now).

I've never seen an actual ballot (the one you give to the officials when you're done) that had candidates' names on it. It's just a generic card that fits in the slot and records your votes.

In my precinct, Kerry/Edwards corresponded with line #10 on the card. This is like the cards they were counting in FL in 2000.

So does this photo make sense that this is an actual ballot? It doesn't look like there's any place to vote for anyone. Those aren't bubbles, they are black rectangles. I don't think that's a ballot, unless it's a sample.

[YellowDoginthehouse]

19. If you look at the photograph very closely,

you can see the individual pen strokes that the person made in voting for Gregoire.

Honestly, a lot of posters at Free Republic aren't qualified to vote because of I.Q. deficiencies.

Ignore.

[Up2Late]

20. What a bunch of DORKS

If their is Fraud in that picture, it's that the ballot was printed with "Bubbles" that are only faintly visible.

The :puke:Repucklican that probably printed it, probably made it like that, thinking that any Democrat would be either old with poor vision, so that they wouldn't be able to see the bubbles, or too poor to afford glasses, same scam. :mad:

[Diane R]

21. I was an observer of the hand count

My guess is that they are upset because this ballot may have been counted as a Gregoire vote.

It appears that the person who filled out this ballot did not fill in the bubbles, as they were supposed to. Instead, it appears they darkened the black line to the left of Gregoire's name.

We were instructed to look at the whole ballot when we tried to decide voter intent. Perhaps this person filled out the rest of the ballot the same way. Now, if they filled in bubbles over the rest of the ballot, but not here, it might indicate they didn't intend to vote for her. But, my guess is that the canvassing board decided the blackened line next to her name indicated 'intent', to the best of their ability to determine that.

Too bad they aren't showing the whole ballot. But then, if they did that it might be obvious that the canvassing board was correct, and they would be able to whine quite so convincingly.

[bobbyboucher]

23. Did this ballot count, or is it just a red herring?

Just showing a picture of it doesn't necessarily mean it was counted for Gregoire, just that there is a mark next to her name and the AssBoyFreeps think it shouldn't count.

Did it count or not?

[KE_04]

24. "it appears they darkened the black line to the left of Gregoire's name."

It seems to me that:
IF this ballot was counted as a vote, FOR EITHER CANDIDATE, it should not have been. We are calling for votING reform, when there should be votER education. There are people OF ALL PARTIES who, because of a lack of awareness of WHY to vote for someone, they vote AGAINST that candidate, (by voting FOR the other candidate). I'm going to say this off-the-cuff, so if it sounds harsh forgive me but you know it is true: SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST TOO DUMB TO VOTE. This is true for a number of reasons.

1). Some people, in this election, were PAID to register to vote. That doesn't mean they ACTUALLY voted, but they got a small fee, IE. money and in some cases drugs, just to register. It isn't encouraging for a functioning Democracy to have to PAY people to vote.

2). Voter "apathy". Some people vote only because they feel they should. In general, this type of voter DOESN'T HAVE A CLUE as to which candidate supports their particular position on a given issue. They vote for a name they may have heard in a 30 minute newscast. NOT GOOD.

3). Some people, as I believe is the case with this ballot, can't follow simple directions. When I was in school, our English teacher passed out a pop-quiz. The instructions at the top of the page stated to "READ THE ENTIRE TEST FIRST". In those instructions, you were to sign and date the quiz and hand the test into the teacher. A rough guess is that 90% of the class sat there and completed the quiz wondering how a few of us got done so quickly. It was because they DIDN'T FOLLOW DIRECTIONS.

There may be more examples, but I think you get my drift. If this ballot was counted FOR EITHER candidate, that is wrong. If a PERSON actually completed this ballot, this is an obvious need for voter education. If this is a "doctored" photo. shame on the Freeps!.
While I am here, this is a bit off-topic, but I'll put it here anyway. On election morning, I caught a blurb SOMEWHERE that poll workers in Philadelphia found thousands of votes on machines there, BEFORE THE POLLS OPENED, all for Kerry. While we are rightfully placing blame on Repugs for fraud, we need to look at ALL instances of fraud.
I wish everyone here a Merry Christmas and a happy new year, and root for those STEELERS!

[bush_is_wacko]

33. Give me a break! If they found votes for K

BEFORE the election do you not think the freepers and Rethuglicans would be on National "news" EVERY freakin day before and since the election showing that machine to the Kool-aid crowd? The freepers and rethugs RELY on the "misinformation" campaign to keep thier masses in line! This is sort of like the argument that MM lied in his movie, but we have found no grounds to sue him over his slander. IF it was there, they WOULD use it! For pete's sake, they PLANTED a forged document to destroy a man's career through the MSM! They would be willing to go public with this type of information to SAVE thier godly king, for sure!

[sandnsea]

36. First, that's likely a vote

That's what hand recounts are for, to eyeball the ballots and ascertain voter intent. People never knew anything about undervotes and overvotes before 2000, many probably still don't. A uniform election system would help eliminate ballots like the one shown, but voters will probably always make mistakes. In a hand recount, if a human can correct those mistakes, they should. That's the point.

On Philadelphia, that case was resolved on election day. Those machines had two windows that displayed voting numbers, one that showed the total number of votes ever cast on the machine, the other that showed the number of votes cast on election day. The Republicans looked at the wrong window, that's all. Don't repeat right wing bullshit, makes you look rather silly.

[thanatonautos]

22. It's a poor quality image: you can't see the bubbles well at all.

Also you can't see the whole ballot, to see
whether there are other marks on it.

If there are, and depending on how they
are made, it could change one's whole opinion.

There appears to be a mark made on the black
rectangle next to Gregoire's name. I suppose
the freeps are excited because they think this
is clearly not a valid way of marking the ballot
to vote for Gregoire.

If this is the only mark on the ballot,
I think I would agree that it shouldn't
be counted. But you can't see the whole
ballot.

Also, there's no real provenance provided for
the photo. It seems from the logo to have been part of
a King5 newscast ... I guess that's King county TV?

How do they know that this ballot was counted as a
Gregoire vote in the first place?

[Dolphyn]

27. I wonder if the voter was able to see the oval.

A lot of people have impaired eyesight, and the ovals were obviously printed rather faintly.

[EQPlayer]

30. I agree -- all they show is the part of the ballot for the governor's race

If they bothered to show the whole ballot, and there were similar marks for Kerry (or even Bush) and other candidates, then this guy is off his goard. Think they only showed part of the ballot because that is the case? I wouldn't put it past these slimemongers!

[Twist_U_Up]

25. Thier Tin Foil Hats must be getting heavy LOL nt

[henslee]

29. Tinfoil for everybody! Only people making $ these days is Reynolds. nt

[Karenca]

26. FROM FREEPERLAND--"BE READY TO OUTFRAUD-WE ARE SMARTER"

QUOTE FROM FREEPERVILLE

"To: superskunk
The GOP should learn from this and be ready to out-fraud the _____'ers next time. We are smarter than they are . We can do it easily.



20 posted on 12/23/2004 11:05:02 PM PST by lwoodham"

[Blue_In_AK]

40. "We can do it easily" ???

Sounds like they're ratting themselves out.

[pacalo]

28. In their own words, "Waaaaahaaaaa!"

Get over it! Your Loserman lost!

[bush_is_wacko]

31. I don't give much creedence to ANYTHING that website posts!

They are the die hards, or should I say BLOW hards. But IF that is indeed a vote that registered for Gregoire, I think it looks quite legit! They must have vision problems if they can't see THAT particular bubble is larger than all the rest, in addition to the stray mark. The fact that they blurred the crap out of it so you have to strain to see it, is just another one of the propaganda tricks I've seen them use. Sort of like the BIG and "highly attended" press conference in Washington regarding thier right to protest the "violent" liberals, who are hell bent on hurting people (most laughable quote as to who the "violent liberals" want to go after is "grandmothers in tennis shoes") at the inaguration parade! THAT press conference was attended by 5 whole people, most of whom looked like janitors and various aides that had been pulled in from the hallways and handed cameras to hold so they LOOKED legitamate. The 1 guy asking questions at THAT press conference only reasked what the freepers thought were points in thier favor.

[Unforgiven]

32. They

just can't stand to lose, can they? They just have to have it all.


Who's whining now?

[Andy_Stephenson]

34. The ballot is missing the ovals

If I were to judge this ballot it is not fillind in correctly...The voter marked on the timing marks. The intent is clear but it is marked wrong.

[buddysmellgood]

35. Do not dismiss their complaints. They will impeach themselves

with their ridiculous claims. They argue against counting votes. We argue for counting votes. If they can find legitimate votes or show other votes are not legitimate...fine. But the time for that was during the first two recounts, when they were afraid to count all the votes. They are in an impossible position.

[dzika]

37. Photographic Evidence of Fraud in Ohio

That ballot doesn't look like fraud to me.

This thread reminded me of a picture I saw on 11/3 that DOES LOOK LIKE FRAUD...
(I wonder what became of this)


Larger:

In a nutshell, Stefan Skirtz is a poll manager for the Kerry campaign in Cincinnati. His precinct is heavily made up of minorities and students (i.e., leans Kerry). One of the duties of the poll managers, Stefan told me in a phone call minutes ago, is to follow the poll workers to election headquarters as they drop off the ballots and ballot boxes. Stefan followed the poll workers who didn't go directly to the election headquarters. Instead, they went to a local public school where workers put the ballot machines into a semi trailer, and then the poll workers handed off the sealed bags containing the ballots to someone Stefan assumed was with the county board of elections.

The first problem he noticed was that there was no sign off of the transfer of the ballots. Nothing was written down and given to the poll worker as proof that the ballots were passed off to the county employee.

What's worse, Stefan noticed the pick-up truck of the supposed county board of election - the truck the ballots for 40 precincts were loaded into - had a big Bush-Cheney 2004 sticker in the back window. Stefan did say that he followed the truck to the election headquarters, though he didn't see what transpired after the truck pulled into the election hq parking lot.

As Stefan explains it, the poll managers had such an extensive list of voters rights and regulations that they had to follow, including it being illegal to have any partisan buttons etc. in the polling place, yet the ballots for voters in over 40 precincts were put in the hands of Bush-Cheney partisans.

I don't know whether the Bush partisans did or didn't play any games with the ballots they received, but it sure doesn't look good, and I wonder whether it's even legal. And let's not forget, this is a state that was already well on its way to becoming the new Florida of GOP election fraud.

Stefan says he has 6 or 7 witnesses who also saw the sticker on the truck. I have Stefan's contact info for members of the media.

http://americablog.blogspot.com/archives/2004_10_31_americablog_archive.html#109946880458828314

[tandem5]

39. self delete

[tandem5]

42. self delete

[Dem2theMax]

43. My guess is that that pic has been Photoshopped.

If you could SEE the bubbles clearly, as you would be able to if the pic had not been messed with, you would see at least one more vote filled in, for Superintendent, to the right of the Governor section.
Someone 'fixed' the photo, not the ballot.

Stupid freepers.

[New Earth]

44. yeah

they're freepin the freepershop

[Mr Grieves]

45. Holy F those guys are dumb

Yes, the oval isn't filled in. That's not the point. The voter (also with questionable intelligence) tried to fill-in the already filled square at the left edge of the ballot in line with Gregoire's name. You can see not only the stray black mark but also scribble lines all around the black square.

Of course it's possible the voter meant nothing by this and was just testing their pen - but if you call it a vote is is clearly a vote for Gregoire.

Anyway, blatant hypocricy gets you nowhere.
-G