What the fuck is going on in here?

[WilliamPitt]

I went to get some dinner, and came back to find all these threads with WTF and OMG and !!!!!!111 etc.

Can someone explain why this forum suddenly looks like a coop full of spazzed-out chickens? You're getting feathers all over the place.

Edit: READ THIS:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x200711

[KaliTracy]

1. lol.... someone forgot to close the henhouse

and the fox is running loose

[Catherine Vincent]

2. LOL!

You know how some of us are.:-)

[New Earth]

3. lollllllllllllllllllllll

Go read Olbermann's blog and you'll see why.

[Rev. Day-Bu]

4. It's "bring your child to D.U." day

;-)

[tavalon]

43. ROFLMAO

I spit on the computer! I should know better than to drink liquids while reading DU posts! BTW, welcome to DU!

[skids]

86. Oh, they didn't mean my "inner child?" :-) n/t

[Carni]

5. I am lost but wish for knowledge also!

I have been away for like a week and can't make heads or tails out of anything going on!

Someone wake me when the dickhead is out of office! :(

[tavalon]

44. OK ,Rip

See ya in a couple of years. You're going to miss the next Watergate, though.

[Carni]

53. That's part of the problem

This is like Watergate in more ways than one...first and foremost the details are very confusing and hard to follow!

[Amaryllis]

6. SeeOlbermann's blog today. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/

[roguevalley]

7. rhat will teach you to leave

:+

It is fatigue. Just the thought that our initial donation to Sri Lanka
was 100K is enough to make people sharpen pitchforks.

[pleiku52cab]

8. KO had a piece on the Kerry lawyer

Contradicted his Thursady statement with another today. Idiot lawyer said shrub won. Talk about mixed messages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DS1]

9. So must lust for attention, yet so little to say

You figure out the rest

[WebeBlue]

10. Keith Olberman happened....

quoting Kerry lawyer "don't read more into our words than what they mean" "there are a lot of conspiracy theorists opining out there" "the Bush/Cheney ticket won, we don't think there was fraud of any kind"

then Fineman does his thing, and Keith says his thing, and ends up pretty much dismissing there is even a remote hint that election will be challenged come Jan 6. Although both did say there is Rep. Waters on record saying she will contest electors and that where there was 0 Senators there are now 1 in 3....

and I'm kinda floored here, not so savvy to know what kind of strategy Kerry's lawyers are using and feeling like the bottom dropped out after waiting through days for the "filing" by Kerry to happen.

[Amaryllis]

23. Did they actually say 1 in 3 senators? We were trying to figure out

if this statement on yesterday's blog meant a third of senators or a one third chance (as in percent) that one would stand up.
"He estimates for us that the chance of a Senator actually signing on has — in the last week — risen from almost nothing, to upwards of one third."

[WebeBlue]

29. 33% and upwards, whatever KO meant by that, my head is

(Amaryllis) to full of rushing blood to have clarity. I think you are more accurate, percentages of 0 up to 33%. Hey, though, wouldn't it be way more cool if it was 1 in 3 Senators...lmao. Thanks for helping me clear my head.

[Amaryllis]

I'm hoping for one in three of the Dem senators!

[SharonRB]

56. It was a 1 in 3 chance, or 33% chance...

not 1 in 3 senators.

[Amaryllis]

100. I know, but my fantasy is one out of three Dem senators! Better yet, all

of them.

[me b zola]

30. Yes

AND..that it looks like the Honorable Maxine Waters will stand for the House. MAYBE Rep. Conyers!!!
What's going on??

[meganmonkey]

11. All I know is I'm glad I don't have TV

it seems very distressing.

[k8conant]

12. Mr. Pitt, what row should our ducks be in?

I was gone for a while also and came back to all these wild feathers. Are these two lawyers (Hoffheimer and McTigue) both on the Kerry/Edwards team? Does Hoffheimer mean what he says? Does McTigue mean what he filed today?

[Up2Late]

13. William! Language!

Am I going to have to call the Faith Based Authorities? :silly:

[GetTheRightVote]

14. We are all a thither concerning KO findings on K/E filing....

Please comfort us here at DU ??

:scared:

[Wilms]

15. Hope you enjoyed your dinner.

Sure does smell like some folks burnt theirs.:nuke:

[Niche]

41. Set off the smoke alarm and ruined a pan....

thank god 'cause i'm past hungry...

[Cherie59]

16. I am laughing my a** off right now!

[candle_bright]

17. Can we still win?

I don't understand. I thought we could win. Is it still possible.

[tavalon]

45. The key is figuring out what you define as a win

Depending on what your answer is, the answer to you is Yes, No or Maybe.

[johnaries]

18. KO had one of Kerry's Lawyers on who is still using the

"oh,, Bush won, we don't see any fraud, we just want to make sure the count was right" line (maybe he didn't get the memo?), and some people want to crucify KO, the Lawyer, Kerry, and every innocent bystander.

[bettyellen]

19. the statement from kerrys people saying they don't think it's fraud....

i understand it, but a lot of people want jk to be out swinging a bat right now!

[tavalon]

46. I've wanted that since, oh, about Nov. 2nd

It isn't going to happen, not with Kerry.

[WilliamPitt]

20. READ THIS

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x200711

[Left coast liberal]

21. What a roller coaster!

I admit it! I resemble a spazzed out chicken.

I don't even get KO/MSNBC for some damn reason. And, I'm catching the residual panic for my fellow DU'ers!

Hang in there, folks. Rome wasn't built in a day.

So much for an early nights sleep, eh, Will?

Cheers!B-)

[me b zola]

38. But how long did it take

for Rome to fall??

[Forkboy]

22. But this is the forum where things get done

:eyes:

[merh]

24. As much as I respect you Mr. Pitt, I think that you may be in over

your head. There is no way to comfort the hens and roosters that got loose from the coup and have caused themselves such distress.

The problem is there are those that want immediate results and have no idea how complicated things really are. (Too much t.v. and video games) They have never been involved in complex litigation and they don't realize that you do not show your cards to the other side if you don't have to and, if a bluff is beneficial, then you bluff. You keep your eye on the prize and you get the press you need when you need it and you diffuse the press when you don't want it to interfere with your objectives.

Thanks Mr. Pitts for your sharing, but I would let the feathers settle and make pillows for the next pillow fight that will occur in this forum.

[WebeBlue]

31. Welll.... I Never....Sniffs and smoothes out her ruffled feathers

(merh) hmrph, okay, thanks, and yeah, I don't know much at all about litigation, and like your ordinary lay-person I rely on folks with more knowledge of such and react accordingly. So when "Kerry's lawyer" is reported to say what was said on KO Countdown, I think it's "real". Appreciate your thoughts, and I'm among those likely to get my feathers in a knot again if the reported information looks like it took a downswing. Some of us need more "help" than others, and I'm one of em.

[merh]

33. Just remember, what matters is what has been filed.

Don't react to someone that claims to be speaking for the client when his name is not on the pleading. Also, remember that litigation is often a "game" of strategy. You do not tip your hand, you keep your cards close to your chest and you often call before you raise. Let the other guy think he has the best hand. Let him keep upping the ante.

The most important thing that can come out of this will be the repair to a long broken election process.

[zann725]

49. What if this Kerry "atty" were not even on the case?

After reflecting on it, doesn't "Hoffmeier" sound more like someone Rove or Poppy would know?

[New Earth]

35. i hope people aren't referring to me

my first post about it was only saying WTF????/

and my second post was me looking at it with some sense.

i hope i'm not included in these 'drama queens'.

(ps, i do have have pms the past few days (TMI), i know i have been telling ppl to STFU more often than usual :( )

and for THAT i AM sorry.

[merh]

36. Yes, TMI, but oh the laughter that it caused!

You are not the drama queen or at least, not the only one! Many of us knew this would happen, folks expect so much, want things to be corrected so badly that anything done today could not meet everyone's expectations.

Relax, take a midol or have a hot toddie. Thanks for the chuckle. Things are not off track, they are moving right along. One (1) of Kerry's lawyers filed a motion in federal court today asking for expediated consideration and the seizure of the voting equipment. It has been a good day.

Peace!

[McCamy Taylor]

25. Karl Rove trashed our democracy, that's what happened...

...dont lose sight of who the enemy is.

:grr:

"Dont mourn. Organize."

[MissBrooks]

26. From Keith's website...

Mr. Hoffheimer, Kerry's lead attorney on the ground in Ohio:

"I would caution the media not to read more into what the Kerry-Edwards campaign has said," Mr. Hoffheimer advised us by e-mail, "than what you hear in the plain meaning of our comments. There are many conspiracy theorists opining these days. There are many allegations of fraud. But this presidential election is over. The Bush-Cheney ticket has won. The Kerry-Edwards campaign has found no conspiracy and no fraud in Ohio, though there have been many irregularities that cry out to be fixed for future elections. Senator Kerry and we in Ohio intend to fix them. When all of the problems in Ohio are added together, however bad they are, they do not add up to a victory for Kerry-Edwards. Senator Kerry's fully-informed and extremely careful assessment the day after the election and before he conceded remains accurate today, notwithstanding all the details we have since learned."

[me b zola]

27. Will, help me untangle this mess, help me to understand

I thought that the reason that the Kerry/Edwards team became involved with the suit was because the judge (Moyer?) was threatening to throw it out because they, Cobb et al, would not be able to demonstrate that the outcome of the case would not change anything that affects them (to paraphrase, and not very well at that).
Don't the statements that Kerry's lawyer made this evening give the other side the ability to ask for dismissal on the grounds that if Kerry himself doesn't believe the outcome will change, then what's the point???

Please help settle me down.

[troubleinwinter]

34. You are confusing things.

Moyers is on the Ohio Supreme Court case (Arnebeck). That case is to throw out the certification of electors, claiming Kerry won.

Today's motion is in Federal District Court. It requests the sealing of the machines, preservation of the voting materials, and to take depositions.

Different courts, by different people, asking different things.

What one Kerry lawyer spins to the public has nothing to do with the legal motions filed in court.

[me b zola]

37. Thank-You, Trouble

I really am a much more level-headed woman than my post(s) make me sound. I do see, however, the importance of this time in history.
Quite frankly, I am very concerned about our nation's future. The economic and domestic policies of this adm. alone lend one to believe that we will either collapse (as a nation), or all become slaves to the corporate machine. I know how fatalistic this sounds, but it seems as though I have been watching as every check and balance put in place by our for-fathers being bought out by big $$.

[tavalon]

47. We already are slaves to the corporate machine

and yes, if we stay on this current course, this nation will likely collapse. I'm hoping and working for a different outcome. To do otherwise is to lose my soul.

[me b zola]

50. I agree with you about cooperate slavery

But I have always held out hope that the checks and balances of our democracy could stave off the beasts. I swear, don't you think that they (our founders) understood the very nature of power & how it corrupts? You can almost hear this understanding in the Constitution.

I so WISH us to be able to overcome these troubling times via means of this beautiful union that was made, in the hopes of making it a more perfect union!!

Anyway, I am getting tight. Sentimentality may be getting the best of me.

Peace

Zola

[righteous1]

97. yea

[troubleinwinter]

28. I'm layin' low til the tantrums subside. I think the motion is GRAND news

It'll help get to the bottom of this mess.

[Imagevision]

32. My sentiments exactly William Pitt

[Scout1071]

39. I left for a few short hours for a movie with a friend and the place

is crazy when I get back. I'm just now trying to catch up by watching a tivo'd Countdown.

And Will (or is it William? Maybe Bill? Which do you prefer?), there is nothing wrong with a good PBJ every now and again! I only hope you had the J and some bread.

[art3]

40. Stop it-email those senators NOW

Pitt is right. Instead of yelling at each other or whatever, hound the hell out of those senators every single day, like I have. pda is great. anyone here who thinks supression, fraud or both occured on election day better be emailing the progressive senators every day. you have this power. link-http://capwiz.com/pdamerica/mail/oneclick_compose/?alertid=6770366

also-thedeanpeople.com

do it, stop attacking Pitt. chanel your anger into words that will say senators.
art

[tavalon]

42. Poodling and Poodle puddling

I mentioned this in one of the other threads. I've had poodles my whole life as they are hypoallergenic. Poodles are some of the smartest and loving little animals but to say they are high strung is, well, quite the understatement. Through the years I've noticed certain behaviors in humans that correlate. I call those behaviors Poodling and the messes that this Poodling causes are called Poodle puddles.

Overwound DUers = Poodling and many Poodle puddles

You have stepped into a lake of it.

[delphine]

48. Will

you marry me, Will?

Sorry, I just love men who talk dirty . . .

er, I mean men who are intelligent and politically savvy.

[specimenfred1984]

51. They Backed Your Corporate Whore Kerry and Now...

they're all disappointed.

Dean was the man, and still is. He tells people off, like you do, only with actual meaning behind it.

Ya think the DNC will get rid of Dean again? I do.

[blm]

60. Kerry never took corporate pac money throughout his Senate career.

Why do you claim he is a corporate whore?

Did corporations WANT Kerry to work on the Kyoto Protocol for 10 years?

Did corporations help Kerry accrue the best environmental record in the Senate and of the primary candidates?

[Cheswick2.0]

65. is that kind of like yesterday when you said Dean supported the

anti flag burning ammendment when he didn't? Do you just depend on people believing what you post without checking it out?

Kerry has gotten more corporate money than any other person in the senate including republicans. He admits it and then claims he has never changed a vote because of that money. Are you calling Kerry a liar?

[blm]

70. Kerry never took corporate pac money throughout his Senate career.

Dean supported making flagburning illegal, without making it an amendment, which I corrected in the thread.

Hate Kerry all you want, but, this world would be much worse off if he had not shown up to serve over the last 35 years, from Vietnam to the illegal wars in Central America, from IranContra to BCCI.

Hatred of Kerry is irrational for anyone who cares about good and honest governance. Republicans who love war and war profiteering despise Kerry.

[justice4all]

69. Yeah, Dean tells people off

but which people? And what about his actions? I can't verify the truth of the following, but it did give me cause for pause:

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030526&s=farrell

I'm convinced that without public financing of elections, it's impossible for any prominent politician to be completely independent of narrow monied interests. If the DNC keeps Dean, it might not be for reasons that DUers would like. Or can you tell me more about his freedom from corporate pressure?

[donheld]

52. You went to get some what??? No soup for you!

[keepthemhonest]

54. full moon?

the strong gravitational pull of the full makes people act out of sorts.:shrug:

[dandrhesse]

55. I agree

I read your article on truthout and then came over to the forums and was like, "whoa, what is happening?" everyone seemed to be jumping all over you and questioning every detail of what went down yesterday. Like you say, breath, take in the fact that something did happen yesterday and it was something good for a change. Like another person posted on a different thread said, Kerry has got to have his case absolutely airtight and this guy thinks as do I that what is being looked at reaches far beyond what happened in the election. He went on to say that they will get only one shot so they had better have it all together or they will be shot down. I think he is right and we all, have to trust that the guy who brought down BCCI and the players in the Iran-Contra mess know what they are doing to build a case.

It seems so obvious to many of us that Bush and his cronies are guilty but remember and I know it gets repetitive , but knowing someone is guilty and proving it in court are two intirely different things. Kerry is not going to bring something to light and make charges that he doesn't have irrefutable evidence to prove in court.

At least that's my take. If I'm wrong then I will be very disappointed but then we may never know what truly is taking place, if the case doesn't come to court and Kerry is unable to obtain the proof he needs to make the charges stick.

[righteous1]

57. Yea Hoffheimer is the lead attorney in Ohio for the Kerry

campaign. Appears to me he's the one pulling the strings

[merh]

59. Hoffheimer is the lead attorney for the "campaign". The campaign

no longer exists (election is over - they are just trying to count all of the votes and confirm the results).

STYLE and docket for the Federal case as of today looks like this:

===========================
U.S. District Court
Southern District of Ohio (Columbus)
CIVIL DOCKET FOR CASE #: 2:04-cv-01139-EAS-TPK

Delaware County Prosecuting Attorney et al v. National Voting Rights
Institute et al (short style)

Assigned to: Edmund A Sargus
Referred to: Terence P Kemp
Cause: 28:1441 Petition for Removal
Date Filed: 11/30/2004
Jury Demand: None
Nature of Suit: 441 Civil Rights: Voting
Jurisdiction: Federal Question

Plaintiff
Delaware County Prosecuting Attorney
David A. Yost, Delaware County Prosecuting Attorney
represented by
David A Yost
Peterson & Yost
140 North Sandusky Street
Delaware, OH 43015
614-369-6008
LEAD ATTORNEY
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Christopher D Betts
Delaware County Prosecuting Attorney's Office
Assistant Proseucting Attorney
140 North Sandusky Street
3rd Floor
Delaware, OH 43015
740-833-2690
Fax: [phone]
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Mark David Landes
Isaac Brant Ledman & Teetor - 2
250 E Broad Street
Suite 900
Columbus, OH 43215-3742
614-221-2121
Email: [e-mail]
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Plaintiff
Delaware County Board of Elections
represented by David A Yost
(See above for address)
LEAD ATTORNEY
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Christopher D Betts
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Mark David Landes
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

VERSUS

Defendant
National Voting Rights Institute
aka NVRI
represented by
Richard M Kerger
Kerger & Kerger
33 S Michigan Street
Suite 201
Toledo, OH 43602
419-255-5990
Email: [e-mail]
LEAD ATTORNEY
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Defendant
David Cobb
Green Party Candidate through National Voting Rights Institute,
aka NVRI
represented by Richard M Kerger
(See above for address)
LEAD ATTORNEY
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Defendant
Michael Badnarik
Libertarian Party Candidate through
National Voting Rights Institute aka NVRI
represented by Richard M Kerger
(See above for address)
LEAD ATTORNEY
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

VERSUS

Intervenor/Defendant
KERRY-EDWARDS 2004 INC
represented by
Donald Joseph McTigue
3886 N High Street
Columbus, OH 43214
614-263-7000
Email: [e-mail]
LEAD ATTORNEY
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Counter Defendant
J Kenneth Blackwell
represented by Richard Nicholas Coglianese
Ohio Attorney General - 2
30 East Broad Street
17th Floor
Columbus, OH 43215
614-466-2872
Fax: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Amicus
County Commissioners' Association of Ohio
County Commissioners' Association of Ohio

Amicus
Ohio Association of Election Officials
Ohio Association of Election Officials

Counter-Claimant
National Voting Rights Institute
aka NVRI
represented by Richard M Kerger
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Counter-Claimant
David Cobb
Green Party Candidate through
National Voting Rights Institute, aka NVRI
represented by Richard M Kerger
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

Counter-Claimant
Michael Badnarik
Libertarian Party Candidate through
National Voting Rights Institute aka NVRI
represented by Richard M Kerger
(See above for address)
ATTORNEY TO BE NOTICED

VERSUS

Counter-Defendant
Delaware County Board of Elections

Date Filed # Docket Text

11/30/2004 1 NOTICE OF REMOVAL filed by Defendants National Voting Rights Institute, David Cobb, and Michael Badnarik against Plaintiffs Delaware County Prosecuting Attorney and Delaware County Board of Elections from Delaware County Court of Common Pleas, case number 04-CVH-11-827. ( Filing fee $ 150.00 ). (Attachments: # 1 State Court File)(dms) (Entered: 12/01/2004)

11/30/2004 Filing fee: $ 150.00, receipt number 200 44305. (dms)(Entered: 12/01/2004)

11/30/2004 2 CORPORATE DISCLOSURE STATEMENT of Defendant National Voting Rights Institute. (dms ) (Entered: 12/01/2004)

11/30/2004 3 NOTICE of Docketing in Removal. (dms)(Entered: 12/01/2004)

12/01/2004 Notice of Docketing in Removal sent to David Yost and Christopher Betts. ECF01/Rev. 3/04 sent to David Yost and Christopher Betts. Christopher Betts is now with Delaware County Prosecuting Attorney's Office. Lisa Wright is changing information in ECF. (dms) (Entered: 12/01/2004)

12/02/2004 4 ANSWER to Complaint , Affirmative Defenses and, COUNTERCLAIM against Delaware County Board of Elections by Defendants National Voting Rights Institute, David Cobb, Michael Badnarik, Plaintiff Delaware County Board of Elections. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit # 2 Exhibit # 3 Exhibit)(Kerger, Richard) (Entered: 12/02/2004)

12/02/2004 5 MOTION for Preliminary Injunction by defendants Michael Badnarik, David Cobb, National Voting Rights Institute, Counter Claimants Michael Badnarik, David Cobb, National Voting Rights Institute. (Attachments: # 1 Text of Proposed Order)(Kerger, Richard) (Entered: 12/02/2004)

12/02/2004 6 RESPONSE in Support re 5 MOTION for Preliminary Injunction filed by Defendants Michael Badnarik, David Cobb, National Voting Rights Institute, Counter Claimants Michael Badnarik, David Cobb, National Voting Rights Institute. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit)(Kerger, Richard) (Entered: 12/02/2004)

12/02/2004 7 MOTION for Limited Admission of John Bonifaz by Defendants Michael Badnarik, David Cobb, National Voting Rights Institute, Counter Claimants Michael Badnarik, David Cobb, National Voting Rights Institute.(Attachments: # 1 Affidavit)(Kerger, Richard) (Entered: 12/02/2004)

12/02/2004 PHV filing fee received in the amount of $ 50, receipt number 244347 (ja, ) (Entered: 12/03/2004)

12/03/2004 8 MOTION filed by Plaintiff Delaware County Prosecuting Attorney. for Leave to Appear PHV by David Yost (Attachments: # 1 Proposed Order(ja, ) (Entered: 12/03/2004)

12/03/2004 9 Amicus Curiae APPEARANCE entered by Mark David Landes Plaintiffs Delaware County Board of Elections, Delaware County Prosecuting Attorney. (Landes, Mark) (Entered: 12/03/2004)

12/03/2004 10 Memorandum Contra to Mtn of Kerry-Edwards 2004, Inc to Intervene re 5 MOTION for Preliminary Injunction filed by Plaintiffs Delaware County Board of Elections, Delaware County Prosecuting Attorney. (Attachments: # 1 A - NVRI ltr# 2 B - Brenneman Affidavit# 3 Jdgmnt on TRO# 4 D - Del Cty Hrg on TRO# 5 E - Removal Ntc# 6 Proposed Order)(ja, ) (Entered: 12/03/2004)

12/03/2004 11 MOTION to Remand filed by Plaintiffs Delaware County Board of Elections, Delaware County Prosecuting Attorney. (Attachments: # 1 NVRI ltr# 2 B - Brenneman Affidavit - 1# 3 C - Jgmnt on TRO# 4 D - Hrg Ntc# 5 E - ND/OH Order# 6 F - Brenneman Affidavit - 2# 7 Proposed Order)(ja, ) (Entered: 12/03/2004)

12/03/2004 12 BRIEF by Plaintiffs Delaware County Board of Elections, Delaware County Prosecuting Attorney. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit Affidavit of Keith Cunningham# 2 Exhibit Case of Rios v. Blackwell# 3 Exhibit Affidavit of Michael Sciortino)(Landes, Mark) (Entered: 12/03/2004)

12/03/2004 13 NOTICE of Appearance (Coglianese, Richard) (Entered:12/03/2004)

12/03/2004 14 MOTION to Remand by Counter Defendant J Kenneth Blackwell. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit Unpublished case)(Coglianese, Richard) (Entered: 12/03/2004)

12/03/2004 15 MOTION to Quash Subpoenas by Counter Defendant J Kenneth Blackwell. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit Copy of (Subpoenas) (Coglianese, Richard)(Entered: 12/03/2004)

12/03/2004 16 MOTION OF Kerry-Edwards 2004, Inc to Intervene in Deft's Counterclaims and to Join Deft's Motion for Preliminary Injunction. (ja, ) (Entered: 12/03/2004)

12/03/2004 17 STIPULATION OF FACTS: filed by Plaintiffs Delaware County Board of Elections, Delaware County Prosecuting Attorney. (Attachments: # 1 Exh A - Certification)(ja, ) (Entered: 12/03/2004)

12/03/2004 18 AFFIDAVIT of Gwendolyn Dillingham by Plaintiffs Delaware County Board of Elections, Delaware County Prosecuting Attorney. (Landes, Mark) (Entered: 12/03/2004)

12/03/2004 19 Minute Entry for proceedings held before Judge Edmund A Sargus: Motion Hearing held on 12/3/2004 re 5 Both MOTIONS for Preliminary Injunction DENIED(Court Reporter Laura Samuels.) (aq) (Entered: 12/03/2004)

12/03/2004 21 ORDER denying Plaintiffs' Motion for Preliminary Injunction and Defendants'5 Motion for Preliminary Injunction . Signed by Judge Edmund A Sargus on 12/3/04. (aq) (Entered: 12/06/2004)

12/06/2004 20 ORDER: Holding In Abeyance 7 Motion for Limited Admission pending submission of Cert of Good Standing for John Bonifaz per Local Civil Rules. Signed by Judge Terence P Kemp on 12/06/04. (ja, ) (Entered: 12/06/2004)

12/06/2004 22 Supplemental Memorandum Supporting re 20 Order on Motion for Limited Admission of John Bonifaz by Defendants Michael Badnarik, David Cobb, National Voting Rights Institute, Counter Claimants Michael Badnarik, David Cobb, National Voting Rights Institute. (Attachments: # 1 Supplement)(Kerger, Richard) (Entered: 12/06/2004)

12/07/2004 23 AFFIDAVIT of Matthew M. Damschroder by Plaintiffs Delaware County Board of Elections, Delaware County Prosecuting Attorney. (Landes, Mark) (Entered: 12/07/2004)

12/10/2004 24 MOTION for Temporary Restraining Order and Preliminary Injunction by Defendants Michael Badnarik, David Cobb, National Voting Rights Institute, Counter Claimants Michael Badnarik, David Cobb, National Voting Rights Institute. (Kerger, Richard) (Entered: 12/10/2004)

12/10/2004 25 Supplemental Memorandum Supporting re 24 MOTION for Temporary Restraining Order and Preliminary Injunction filed by Defendants Michael Badnarik, David Cobb, National Voting Rights Institute, Michael Badnarik, David Cobb, National Voting Rights Institute, Counter Claimants Michael Badnarik, David Cobb, National Voting Rights Institute, Michael Badnarik, David Cobb, National Voting Rights Institute. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit # 2 Exhibit # 3 Affidavit # 4 Exhibit # 5 Exhibit # 6 Exhibit # 7 Affidavit # 8
Exhibit # 9 Exhibit # 10 Exhibit)(Kerger, Richard) (Entered: 2/10/2004)

12/10/2004 26 MOTION for Preliminary Injunction by Intervenor Defendant KERRY-EDWARDS 2004 INC. (Kerger, Richard) (Entered: 12/10/2004)

12/15/2004 27 NOTICE by Defendants David Cobb, Michael Badnarik, National Voting Rights Institute, Counter Claimants National Voting Rights Institute, David Cobb, Michael Badnarik of filing of newly discovered evidence in support of their Motion for Preliminary Injunction (Attachments: # 1 Supplement # 2)(Kerger, Richard) (Entered: 12/15/2004)

12/15/2004 28 TRANSCRIPT of Proceedings: Motion for Prelim Injunction held on 12/03/04 before Judge Edmund A. Sargus Jr. Court Reporter: Laura Samuels. (ja, ) (Entered: 12/16/2004)

12/16/2004 29 BRIEF re24 MOTION for Temporary Restraining Order and Preliminary Injunction, 25 Supplemental - Supporting,,. (Landes, Mark) (Entered: 12/16/2004)

12/16/2004 30 RESPONSE in Opposition re 24 MOTION for Temporary Restraining Order and Preliminary Injunction, 26 MOTION for Preliminary Injunction filed by Counter Defendant J Kenneth Blackwell. (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit A Complaint in Rios v. Blackwell# 2 Exhibit B Order Denying TRO# 3 Exhibit C Order in Stewart v Blackwell)(Coglianese, Richard) (Entered: 12/16/2004)

12/16/2004 31 REPORT to the Court filed by Plaintiff David Yost, Delaware County Prosecuting Attorney. (Attachments: # 1 Ex A - Affidavit & Procedures)(ja, ) (Entered: 12/20/2004)

12/22/2004 32 MOTION to Dismiss for Lack of Jurisdiction by Counter Defendant J Kenneth Blackwell. Responses due by 1/17/2005 (Attachments: # 1 Exhibit A Complaint in Rios v Blackwell)(Coglianese, Richard) (Entered: 12/22/2004)

12/23/2004 33 MOTION for Order to Preserve and for Leave to Take Limited Expedited Discovery by Defendants David Cobb, Michael Badnarik, National Voting Rights Institute, Counter Claimants National Voting Rights Institute, David Cobb, Michael Badnarik. (Kerger, Richard) (Entered: 12/23/2004)

12/23/2004 34 Supplemental Memorandum Supporting re 33 MOTION for Order to Preserve and for Leave to Take Limited Expedited Discovery filed by Defendants David Cobb, Michael Badnarik, National Voting Rights Institute, David Cobb, Michael Badnarik, National Voting Rights Institute, Counter Claimants National Voting Rights Institute, David Cobb, Michael Badnarik, National Voting Rights Institute, David Cobb, Michael Badnarik.(Attachments: # 1 Affidavit # 2 Affidavit # 3 Affidavit # 4 Affidavit # 5 Affidavit # 6 Affidavit # 7 Affidavit # 8 Affidavit # 9 Affidavit # 10 Affidavit)(Kerger, Richard) (Entered:
12/23/2004)

12/23/2004 35 Proposed Pretrial Order by Defendants David Cobb, Michael Badnarik, National Voting Rights Institute, Counter Claimants National Voting Rights Institute, David Cobb, Michael Badnarik. (Kerger, Richard) (Entered: 12/23/2004)

12/27/2004 36 First MOTION for Discovery (Preservation Order and Leave to Take Limited Expedited Discovery) by Intervenor Defendant KERRY-EDWARDS 2004 INC. (McTigue, Donald) (Entered: 12/27/2004)

[righteous1]

61. Nix "campaign" the exact quote is " Kerry's lead attorney in Ohio.

Daniel J Hoffheimer......"

[merh]

62. Wrong again - he is not the lead attorney - he is one of Kerry's

attorneys. This is very informative.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x203024

[righteous1]

63. That's an exact quote from the article, if you

choose not to believe it, that's up to you

[merh]

64. He is one of the attorneys - I don't need a quote from an article

to base my understanding of the working of the relationships.

[righteous1]

66. Fine, pick and choose what to read, and then what to believe

as long as it fits nicely into your little preconceived mindset. But don't state your opinion as fact. And btw that advocate article is 90% speculation, they may very well be right, but it is pure speculation

[merh]

67. I don't pick and chose what I read.

I know how the process works. I don't needs someone's interpretation of things to help me appreciate the differences between "lead" attorney and "litigation" attorney and "one of the attorneys". Funny thing about life experiences, you can call on them to help you make up your own mind about things. I gave you the link to the article because I noticed you were having trouble understanding the "nuances"! I am able to recognize the differences without a script written by another.

[righteous1]

68. LOL , "nuances" that's a euphemism for veiled bullsh!^

KO states Hoffheimer is Kerry's lead attorney in Ohio. There is no "nuance" there. It's a unambiguous statement of fact. He either is or he isn't. If you choose to believe that this statement of "fact" is wrong fine, that's your perogative. Personally I would tend to believe KO at MSNBC before I would the speculation of the N.A..... but, that is my perogative

[merh]

71. Oh, so KO can't be wrong?

MSM is always right. They never make mistakes. Believe KO as you like, I don't f'n care!

Nuances is not a euphemism for veiled bullshit. They are actualities. Things are never black and white, if you expect them to be then you probably voted for the weed. There are so many shades of gray and so many reasons why things are done or not done. The naive expect all the answers and results today, the naive see either good or bad, black or white, action or inaction.

[righteous1]

73. Calm down, and you need not

be insulting, usually the last gasp of an inferior argument. I didn't say I believe everything KO said. I would tend to give him more credibility then the NA ,however

[merh]

74. I am not being insulting, you are. The funny thing about those

that use that "inferior argument" line, they are the one with the inferior argument and are losing the debate, so they throw that out, as if it makes them look more reasonable and mature.

Actually, I give NA more credibilty than KO. They INVESTIGATE. They just don't parrot or regurigitate, they search for facts, they review materials and they check independent sources. KO gets emails from the public, he may read some of the links provided, but he does no independent investigation of his own. To think otherwise is a mistake. He lets his producers and aids do the work. He was a sports caster for pete's sake.

[nashuaadvocate]

78. Righteous1, consider... [from The News Editor/Nashua Advocate]

...the following statements from the mainstream media regarding McTigue and Hoffheimer.

Based on this, is it really unfair to suggest that McTigue -- who has given every single "legal" press release for K-E 2004 thus far -- covers the legal work for K-E (and has no subordinate in that regard), whereas Hoffheimer -- who has given every single "publicity" press release for K-E 2004 -- is in charge of public relations? And wouldn't that mean that if we want to know Kerry's position on legal issues, we should look to McTigue, and we want to know the state of his public relations operation, we look to Hoffheimer?

Here are the quotes (representing, I believe, a reasonably-large portion of the times these two have been mentioned in GoogleNews-searchable articles):

*** MCTIGUE ***

"the lawyer handling the recount for the Kerry campaign"
http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archive/newswire/news2004/1204/121404-ohio.htm

"an attorney specializing in election law for the Democrats"
http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1102070209311320.xml

"Democratic attorney"
http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/content/news/stories/2004/11/29/MJ1129jackson.html

"a Columbus lawyer who filed suit for the campaign in U.S. District Court"
http://www.counterpunch.org/harrison12082004.html

"a trial Attorney from Columbus, Ohio"
http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_14464.shtml

*** HOFFHEIMER ***

"Kerry campaign attorney"
http://www.middletownjournal.com/opin/content/news/stories/2004/11/30/mj1130editorial.html

"Ohio Kerry campaign attorney Daniel Hoffheimer"
http://www.webcommentary.com/asp/ShowArticle.asp?id=zieves&date=041204

"an attorney for Kerry-Edwards 2004 in Ohio"
https://www.daytondailynews.com/localnews/

"a Cincinnati lawyer who represents the campaign in Ohio"
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/10325570.htm

Notice that while Hoffheimer is far more often associated with the K-E campaign than McTigue, his position with K-E is never clarified, and certain major news outlets -- such as the Dayton Daily News and the Kansas City Star -- clearly suggest, with the use of the *indefinite* article "a/an," that Hoffheimer is just one attorney among many for K-E -- with no indication he's the "top" attorney at all. McTigue, in contrast, is always mentioned in the context of actually *doing* something -- rather than just *saying* something -- on K-E's behalf.

That said, frankly The Advocate never made an issue out of who the "top" attorney for K-E was/is in Ohio, because it's irrelevant. No one can point to a single instance in which either one of these men -- who work for different law firms, by the way! -- publicly overruled one another. What we *do* know is that McTigue was given full control of the legal battles and has been the exclusive voice on that topic; Hoffheimer was given full control of public relations and he has been the exclusive voice on that topic. . There is no indication that Hoffheimer has *any* say in the lawsuits K-E is involved with -- i.e., what to file, when to file, how to file, where to file, why to file. It seems he could as easily "overrule" or "pull rank" on McTigue as Ronald McDonald could "pull rank" on the Burger King. In light of all this, it's clear there is no "top" attorney for K-E from a practical standpoint, *nor* any "top" attorney in the sense that *a single outlet other than Olbermann* has termed Hoffheimer as such.

So what's to argue about?

The News Editor
The Nashua Advocate
http://nashuaadvocate.blogspot.com/

[merh]

79. some folks just like to argue!

Thanks for the post (and your hard work), but you need to reply to his r1's post. You have replied to mine. :yourock:

[righteous1]

82. I would think that if you wanted to know how K/E

felt you would listen to their spokesman concerning the issue (assuming of course they were telling the truth). MSNBC stated that Hoffheimer was Kerry's LEAD attorney in Ohio. If this is true he is calling the shots, if this is untrue I would love to see substantiation. If MSNBC was incorrect in their characterization of Hoffheimer as the "lead" attorney your theory would hold water, but untill their assertion is debunked any thoughts to the contrary are purely speculation at this point.

[nashuaadvocate]

83. Actually...I think

...what you have proven is one thing: that a single personality on MSNBC, not Hoffheimer, called Hoffheimer the lead attorney for K-E in Ohio. Other news sources have not followed suit, and have implied exactly what I've argued above, and what The Advocate has argued, about who bears which job descriptions.

But that's not why this sub-section of the thread got started, is it? Because of what the words "top" and "lead" mean or don't mean, and who, if anyone, they should be applied to?

You started this sub-section of the thread by asserting, without evidence, and without couching your words as speculation, that Hoffheimer "is the one pulling the strings" for K-E in Ohio. You've now followed this up with, "Hoffheimer is calling the shots" for K-E in Ohio. Do you have any evidence for this, other than the fact that Keith Olbermann, who had to essentially retract a story as recently as five days ago, used the word "lead" in a single broadcast, without even defining what (if anything) he meant by it?

In any event, I'm guessing we're at an impasse on this point, but I just thought I'd clarify my position. In the larger picture, I'm sure we agree on a great many things about this whole debacle.

The News Editor
The Nashua Advocate
http://nashuaadvocate.blogspot.com/

[righteous1]

87. The lead attorney in any legal proceeding naturally would call the shots

so my comment certainly is not a stretch. The term "lead" is commonly applied to the lawyer in charge of any particular action. KO may have misspoken, I don't know, but I also get very hinky when terms like "implied" are used as when trying to mount a convincing rebuttal. The bottom line is he either is the lead or he isn't and it probably would not be terribly difficult to find the definitive answer on that. One thing for sure, someone is calling the shots in Ohio as K/E surrogate. And it should go without saying that my "opinions" are based on what I hear and read as I am sure yours are as well. But one thing is for sure, If JKs spokesman says he does not believe there was widespread fraud in Ohio and that Bush won the election; If that is not what Kerry believed he would not be on the payroll this morning

[nashuaadvocate]

90. Whoa -- you just jumped into the stratosphere there...

...are you now saying Hoffheimer is the "lead attorney in...(a) legal proceeding"?

Says who...? And moreover, since when does a "lead attorney" in a "legal proceeding" not sign *any* of the legal filings in said "legal proceeding"? McTigue has signed everything, and I believe Hoffheimer has signed nothing.

Not trying to be too catty here, but seriously...what am I missing here? You've just made a huge, huge leap.

I *agree* with you that "someone is calling the shots in Ohio as K/E surrogate" -- the difference is simply, I don't think *one* person is calling the shots. I think -- no, well beyond that, the evidence *shows* -- that McTigue is calling the shots in the "legal proceeding," and Hoffheimer is calling the shots from a public-relations standpoint.

The News Editor
The Nashua Advocate
http://nashuaadvocate.blogspot.com/

[righteous1]

92. The question is WHO is K/E having call the shots

ie. would the proceeding have taken place without express approval of K/E....of course not. So who did they tell to go forward Hoffheimer or McTigue. If H is the lead then they would have instructed him to have McTigue go forward. Just because one is involved in the actually day to day legal activities doesn't neccessarily make him the boss. ie. A CEO is the boss but the President of a company has more hands on control

[merh]

80. see post #78

[troubleinwinter]

72. Anybody know anything about these judges?

And why does it say "assigned to" and "referred to"?

Assigned to: Edmund A Sargus
Referred to: Terence P Kemp

[xiamiam]

58. we're afraid...

...and have been given such little crumbs of hope...while the war rages on...and the America we have known is gone..and the truth of the matter is known to many yet their efforts are being stonewalled by the free (ha) American press..yeah we're afraid...and anyone in their right mind should be...and we keep pinning our hopes on someone or something to turn this thing around or to lead us out of this darkness...and it just doesnt look good ...regardless of what anyone says...its happening right before our eyes...and none of us can believe it...and we are shackled by those who own the media and the sheep who believe them...scariest time of my life...

[hippiegranny]

75. can I ask? 111?

what do you mean by this?

[WilliamPitt]

81. When people spazz out

and want to do a string of exclamation points - '!!!!!!' - sometimes their spazzitude causes them to let up on the shift button too soon, so you get !!!!!!11111.

I think matcom perfected this particular art form. :)

[Shalom]

76. Thank Goodness One Cock Got Up to Crow....

As one who loves to joke in the most dire situations, I was still put off by extended joke-athons yesterday by "drama queens" who seem to have no purpose whatsoever but to show off their knowledge of TV trivia, and walk their wit around.

In any other context, really funny...but on a day when in addtion to our little universe of woe, perhaps 50,000 people died around the globe, I am surprised at the levity.

Please don't flame me for this - I'll probably come back with a joke or a wisecrack. I just feel a little more sensitivity is in order. Threads that have no other purpose but to have fun should be in other forums...

[merh]

77. That thread was an attempt to alleviate the anxiety caused by or

suffered by many (far too many) who totally blew things out of proportion yesterday. It was not meant to belittle the fight or any poster, it was meant as comic relief and it served its purpose rather well.

[Patsy Stone]

84. Agreed

However, if your own family can't tell you (not you, but one) to chill cause you're acting crazy, then who can?

Shalom, I love you, you know that. I don't know when you came around last night, or if you were here all along, but there were at least 13 threads bashing everyone and everything and those who bash everyone and everything.

It was a gigantic pie fight. Mostly (in this forum, anyway) about nothing. We eat our own; we turn on each other like dogs sometimes. We also have a bad habit of airing our dirty laundry in public.

To point out that this is happening, and give those who don't want to participate somewhere to go (personally, I went to the Lounge about 10 times, too) and hang out with those they feel close to, is not a bad thing.

The moderator locked it, after it served it's purpose, and it's gone now. Every couple of weeks we seem to require catharsis. Last night was that night.

Peace. :)

[keepthemhonest]

88. It's probably

Every four weeks or so when there is a full moon.

It's the gravitional forces.Really.

[Shalom]

91. Gravitional forces must have caused the earthquake, too....;-)

[Patsy Stone]

94. You say tomato...

I say hormones. :)

[keepthemhonest]

95. exactly

the extra gravity exacerbates your(ones) hormones.

[Shalom]

99. "But did thee feel the earth move ?".....

Robert Jordan to Maria, in Hemmingway's "For Whom The Bell Tolls", proving that hormones and earthquakes are equivalent....

[Shalom]

89. Life is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel..

Luv ya, too, Pats

A favorite saying by Camus...my twist is of course, we must think and feel at the same time.

Shalom

[Patsy Stone]

93. I believe

I quote the great Mel Brooks:

A riot is an ugly thing.
But...I think that it's just about time that we had one!

:)

KTF, NGU

[Shalom]

96. It Is About Time - What About the Place ?

Maybe Washington, DC on Inauguration day ?

Of course, this would have to be "bourgeoise riot", as the WSJ editor deemed the actions of the Repigs in Florida 2000...

[skids]

85. self delete

replied to wrong thing.

[hangloose]

98. lots of people on edge!! to be expected, so much to lose if these

efforts fail to make a change