Ohio Recount Over 88/88 , JK picks up 300 Votes "Officially"

[righteous1]

Rest of story @ http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=703&e=1&u=/ap/20041228/ap_on_re_us/ohio_vote

[roenyc]

1. please tell me this means little to us?

the fight still goes on?

[Goldeneye]

2. I think we have pretty much disqaulified the recount.

Precincts weren't chosen randomly

Tampering with the voting machines

Counties weren't recounted by hand even when the machine tallies differed from hand count tallies

no access to poll books

...feel free to add on...

on second thought, did we really expect them to let us prove they cheated this easily?

[righteous1]

4. Well $115000 down the drain, some of that mine

[Goldeneye]

It was a good starting point

we got lots of information from the initial recount...triad people tampering with the machines, blackwell taking away the poll books is highly suspect, etc. While our money wasn't well spent, we did have to start somewhere.

[Firespirit]

14. Not a total waste

At least it DID uncover prima facie evidence. There are dozens, probably more, of accounts of illegal conduct invalidating the thing. The Greens are sorting through it all. The recount was how we found out that the companies were doing... something... to their tabulators in practically the whole state. It might have been very difficult to get anything if there hadn't been this "crime scene reenactment."

Yes, on to the courtroom! I want to see the McTigue motion granted in full and the expedited forensic investigation to begin, and KKKarl put under oath in Arnebeck's case, and when the investigation reveals him to have lied, DOWN HE GOES. (Yeah, the Rove stuff is probably a dream, but I can still dream. :P)

[Yellow Horse]

21. People, People! The recount has done its job!

Those of us who actually worked on the recount tried our level best to get information and to document everything... OK, we didn't find 119,000 votes for Kerry hiding under some rock in Ohio just waiting for us to easily come in and pick them up. But here is what we DID do...

Found and documented all sorts of problems and holes in the system -- some big enough to drive a Mack Truck through!

Opened the door to further investigation (now we have to make sure they go THROUGH that door!)

Brought a number of groups together to work on this (and let's hope we all STAY together!)

This is not, and never has been, ONLY about K/E '04. People, people, we have to think long term about these voting issues, or lose BIG down the road, even bigger than we already have.

MB

[DoYouEverWonder]

22. Not at all

you will see that it was money very well spent.

If Kerry fought back too soon, they wouldn't have handed us so much evidence. By retreating and letting them think they could get away without a fight, they got stupid and sloppy. Now proving fraud will just be that much easier. Why interfere when your opponent is destroying himself on his own?

[lonestarnot]

36. In the scheme of things, that was money WELL SPENT!

Look where Katherine Blackwell got us with the recount!:evilgrin: evil biatch gona wish we hadn't spent the money with his turdly lookn ass! And most of all he is gona wish he hadn't allowed a TRIAD worker fuck with the voteeaterdefaulttobushitler machine! I say hipphipphurray to that fucking $115,000.00. History baby, that monetary amount is going to be passed down throughout history.

[righteous1]

3. Court decisions are the next big event

[Chimpanzee]

5. It's OK, Mr Blackwell

No more recounts for you - just a short stint in a maximum security prison.

[bones_7672]

28. I bet he becomes Governor in '06. n/t

[Helga Scow Stern]

32. That would be a definite, given the current voting mechanism! n/t

[ivorysteve]

6. Not a word about the recount "irregularities". Incredible. n/t

[Snivi Yllom]

9. at the end

The completion of the recount will not bring an end to questions surrounding the vote in Ohio.

A group of voters citing fraud have challenged the election results with the Ohio Supreme Court. The voters, supported by the Rev. Jesse Jackson (news - web sites), have cited irregularities including long lines, a shortage of voting machines in minority precincts and problems with computer equipment.

Attorney General Jim Petro has called the challenge frivolous and argued that the state Supreme Court does not have jurisdiction over a federal election.

The Government Accountability Office, an arm of Congress, also is investigating election problems.

[Griffy]

7. says right in article.. this aint over...

-"The completion of the recount will not bring an end to questions surrounding the vote in Ohio."


watergate took 2 years ... be in DC on the 6th!

[mordarlar]

8. near 300 votes in 3%...

of "preselected" precincts with the ballots "pre-organized". Not bad... not bad at all.

[Quakerfriend]

11. Exactly Mordarlar!

I think this story comes out at this time to make it appear that things are done, all wrapped up... move along, nothing to see- for the sake of all the sheeples out there who don't yet know all that's been going on.

[mordarlar]

15. Lets not give up the war before the battle has even started

We need to KNOW what we want and how we are going to fight to get it. We cannot keep letting the waves toss us like they do. It is PART OF THE GAME. I refuse to play their game. I will not accept Bush or his policies. I will quietly and calmly tell everyone i can what the news won't. People please go out to other forums as well. Tell as many as you can what is going on. Bring the GOOD NEWS. Don't let the only thing the starving masses hear be the WRIGHT (the con right with the wrong idea) Make the arguments. Break down the arguments calmly and politely. Feel conviction in it. No matter what sways this way or that, WE KNOW WE ARE IN THE RIGHT. This is what matters. Knowing this and making sure others learn it as well. Sorry to vent... First day actually on here. Been watching for a while though. We need a unified purpose. It does not need to depend on the whims of those in office or in the media. WE ARE THE PEOPLE. It is our rule.

[righteous1]

12. If you prorated that 300 votes @3% would amount to

~ 10,000 votes for JK

[Pab Sungenis]

10. Don't the rules say....

...that because the machine count in the 3% was found to be off, we have to go ahead with a full hand recount?

[Snivi Yllom]

13. no

The rules stated that if the machine recounts did not match in 3% of each counties respective precints, they would have to recount the entire county.

[Fly by night]

16. Was there even one OH county that recounted according to the law?

That is:

1) Precincts were chosen randomly (and not ahead of time) to prevent any hanky-panky

2) Tampering with (or even access to) the voting machines was not allowed

3) The entire votes in the counties were recounted by hand when the machine tallies differed from hand count tallies by even one vote

4) Access to poll books was allowed and not restricted in any way

5) Recount watchers were allowed in the same rooms as the recounters, were allowed to ask pertinent questions, etc.

6) Triad techs who tampered with the machines were questioned fully, without those questions being cut off by suddenly-in-a-hurry Republi-Nazi local election officials

7) Voting machines were available for inspection by qualified computer techs to ascertain the source codes, computer logs, communications with external sources (ok, ok, I'm starting to be wishful here.)

Can anyone in Ohio identify a single county where the Ohio recount laws were followed as written? If so, please contact that county (or counties) now to have them place their voting machines under lock-and-key. If not, then there was no recount in Ohio --not in a single county. And the g**d*** MSM (mostly shit media) keep reporting on a "recount" that did not occur. Kool-Aid, anyone?

[bufftiger]

17. Please write to AP reporter and ask about his incomplete reporting..

John Seewer at the Associated Press -- "Ohio Recount Ends, Shows Vote Closer"
The only contact info at the AP is: [e-mail]
Let him know that many witnesses and the Green party do not feel that the recount was conducted legally, or according to state law. His exclusion of these points (the 3% random count, Triad incident, etc) paints a VERY incomplete and misleading picture.

[nicho]

18. all the ballots were recounted by machine

3% were counted by hand to essentially verify the accuracy of the machine count and then ALL the ballots were recounted by machine.

[demodonkey]

19. Which means absolutely NOTHING, if there was machine fraud. eom

[nicho]

20. if that is the case, then why do the recount at all?

as someone else said, what a waste!! if the machines are the problems it makes no sense to ask for a recount using the same machines. remember, the Green Party asked for the recount.

[demodonkey]

23. Why recount? For 1 thing, to start documenting some of these problems!

Remember, the Greens had NOTHING to gain for their candidate by doing this; they just want to make sure that our voting system stays sound.

If these lawsuits can succeed in getting some analysis of the machines or software, we MIGHT just get some answers.

But if there was no recount to bring some of these problems to light, there would be pretty much no grounds for any of these suits to continue.

[nicho]

26. it seems then that the recount validated the efficiency of the machines.

now whether the machines were rigged I suppose is the question.

however, since 3% of all the ballots are handcounted and then re-counted on the machine, it would seem that any programming fix on a machine would be detected on the 3% sample.

sorry, but I am from Ohio and while I am not happy about the election, I don't find the election fraud credible.

for one thing, if the election fraud issue is such a big deal then why aren't people challenging the results in Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, and NH where the percentage of victory by the respective candidates is even tighter than in Ohio.

[bufftiger]

27. No, some machine counts of the 3% did not match the official count

In these cases (and there were several), the counties were supposed to then conduct a total hand recount, but they didn't.
So the discussions of rigged machines or fraud are besides the point. The point is that the "efficient machines" came up with DIFFERENT vote totals than the certified vote in the 3% of "randomly selected" precincts.

[nicho]

29. I believe the 3% handcount is compared with the 3% machine REcount

and not the first count from election night. but you are correct, if the handcount and machine recount of the 3% do not match up then they should do the entire precinct and/or county by hand as required by law.

[Doremus]

30. Fellow Buckeye here. You don't find election fraud "credible"?

Then perhaps you haven't been listening.

Ohio law stipulates that the 3% of precincts to be hand counted should be chosen *randomly*. In most of the counties they were NOT.

Why do you suppose the BoEs wanted to pre-select the precincts?

Katherine Hackwell also blocked access to poll books and other documents needed to conduct proper recounts.

Why do you suppose he did so?

Answer those questions and I predict you'll begin to find some "credibility."

[righteous1]

31. I don't really think they did that to skew the results

I think it was more to save money and not go thru the hassle of a complete hand recount IMHO

[nicho]

33. your right, I'm new and haven't followed the fraud

threads too much. and frankly, I don't doubt some voting problems on election day but I don't buy the accusations of deliberate election fraud.

sorry, waiting in line is not fraud. I recall in South Africa during their 1st election how people were delighted to see the long lines of people waiting to vote. yet here in the US its fraud??

Bush won in our state in 2000. why is it so unbelievable that he would actually win again in 2004?? I believe only three states switched NM, NH, and Iowa.

also BOE have Democrats on them as well. some of the counties like Cuyahoga where alot of fraud is alleged are chaired by Democrats. so is conspiracy by fellow Democrats being alleged as well?

sorry, I don't like the negative attention our state is getting from these allegations. there were other states where the race was even closer, but why aren't the fair election crusaders filing lawsuits in those states?

[Yellow Horse]

38. There are all kinds of problems with the OH machines....

some COULD be fraud and some are just a matter of error.

The main thing that highly disturbed me as an observer is that in all but one county the 3% precincts were PRE-CHOSEN and in some precincts the ballots were already neatly sorted by presidential vote -- waiting for us, in the locked, sealed ballot boxes (supposedly never opened since the official count). And NO chads -- hanging or otherwise. Fraud? No Fraud? You tell me. All I know is that it would be darn easy to make those clean 3% pre-chosen ballots match the machine under those circumstances.

I left the recount fully convinced of one thing ONLY -- that this whole issue needs MUCH more attention and investigation!

As for other states, there IS concern, and plenty of people would like to see them be audited also. Ohio was the FIRST time a full state-wide recount was ever done (and again only 3% was hand counted even there), but we have to start someplace.

MB

[bufftiger]

24. Some counties 3% recount didn't match the official count, yet

many counties refused to do the 100% precinct HAND recount that was
required by law.

[DoYouEverWonder]

25. All they proved

is that they can count the same stacked deck twice and get the same number.

No one was allowed to look at the undervotes, the overvotes, the provisional ballots, the rejected absentee ballots and/or the poll books.

It is statically impossible for Kerry to get only 300 more votes in a state that whose election was so poorly run. This just proves how stupid Blackwell really is. He should have at least made up a believable number.

[Blissfulbride]

34. Check the Green's recount site -- it's not official yet

If you review the counties, most every one says the count is not final and some have more detailed info about its status. I know that there are a lot of counties, but just reading a few and learning about how they were conducted should make DUers feel better.

[Blissfulbride]

35. AP has UNofficial count totals

I pulled this quote from the article on the AP page

"The recount shows Bush winning Ohio by 118,457 votes over John Kerry, according to unofficial results provided to The Associated Press by the 88 counties. Lucas County, home to Toledo, was the last to finish counting."

NOTE THE WORD "UNOFFICIAL". AP also does not state exactly "who" provided this information to them. Add to this the fact that the Green site hasn't posted any news about the conclusions of the recount, I would say "the recount is not over nor are any early reports "official".

Feel free to see for yourself.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/OHIO_VOTE?SITE=OHCOD&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT::o :o :grouphug:

[righteous1]

37. "official" = (sarc)