Howard Dean on Election Fraud, Reform and more!

[Dancing_Dave]

"HD: I think we need to focus on election officials. County Clerks, Secretaries of State in particular, because the Republicans have been so partisan in exercising their responsibility to help people vote, they‘ve in fact tried to suppress turnout instead of encourage it. Secondly, we, I think we need to try to get laws passed, by referendum if necessary, that says that no voting machines in a particular state or jurisdiction may be used unless they can be recounted by hand. Oregon has such a statute because Bill Bradbury (Oregon’s Secretary of State) got one passed in 2001. We should try to state by state overhaul the election process both by referendum and by electing where possible Democratic Secretaries of State and County Clerks."

Read the rest at http://www.peopleforchange.net/

Dean always was ahead of the curve on recognizing election fraud as a real and present danger. His locally based strategy is right on, and indeed the only way available to us now that all three branches of the Federal Government are under Republican control. Of course, it also needs the movement charisma of people like Martin Luther King or Jesse Jackson, a whole Woodstock's worth of powerful groovy counter-culture and so on.

[Straight Shooter]

1. Howard Dean is so prescient, he's almost psychic.

Many read the writing on the wall, but only those of courage speak it aloud. Who can forget the statement, "Capturing Saddam has not made us safer." Oh, the outrage that followed! Where is the apology? Nary a whisper from the MSM.

Go Howard, I'll always love ya!

[mzmolly]

3. I agree. He's such a visionary and he's so "common sense" at the same

time. If he's not the next DNC chair, it's a loss for the Party. However, DFA will continue regardless.

:hi:

[Carolab]

4. Yes, but then he can run again in 2008

and this time we won't let them stop him. Did you catch what he said about Oregon's system? Oregon has mail-in ballots and hand counting.

[Straight Shooter]

5. Sweet words indeed.

I wore my "Go Dean" button to a little get-together yesterday. You should have seen the eyes pop open on my friends. I told them, "I just feel nekkid unless I'm wearing some kind of political button." I think I'm getting to be known as the local political activist. :D

[JD Lau]

14. LPA: Yep. I know the feeling! I'm getting ready to get some

new buttons instead of new clothes!

:D back at ya!

[mzmolly]

12. I did not catch what he said about Oregon, but I'd love to know!

:hi:

I like the idea of hand counting these days!

[Amaryllis]

33. Our SOS is great. Very aware of election fraud issues and has done

a lot of work to safeguard our elections. And we don't HAVE to mail our ballots. We can either mail or drop them off at branch libraries into one of those sealed boxes or at our local BOE. We have 18 days from when the ballots go out until Nov. 2 so no lines! It really minimizes chances of voter suppression and intimidation.

There has been a movement here by certain repubs to replace our system with machines! I think they would have a major revolt on their hands if they tried. It will never happen as long as Bill Bradbury is our SOS. And even if he wasn't, they would have a hard time because Portland is so liberal. You saw about fifty Kerry signs for one Bush before the election. One of our local alternative papers right before the election said that the sharpest political divide in Portland was between those who thought Bush was a lousy president and those who thought he was an alien sent to destroy the planet.

But eastern Oregon is a whole different story...fortunately Portland has the most dense population.

[Dancing_Dave]

46. I haven't been able to decide myself...

Between the "lousy president" and "alien sent to destroy the planet" theories. ;-)

[Amaryllis]

59. I go with the "alien sent to destroy the planet" myself. Or, this is my

other theory: See http://www.apologiesaccepted.com/gallery_00008.html
Last photo on page: Greater forces at work.
Except I think Karl Rove is the one with the ring.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

17. Oregon's voting isn't perfect...

Some people here don't like it, they don't feel it's "safe" to mail the ballots in. However, from what I've seen, it does cut down on the possibilities of fraud. Still, the ballots are counted by machine, I don't like that, but at least we have the ballots that can be re-counted if nec.

[myschkin]

29. Safe state

Oregon has no Bush-shift from Exit Polls.

[tll]

16. pleasepleaseplease

Let it be Dean!

Is there any way to support him as a candidate for chair? I'm wishing, hoping, praying for him to get it with as much fervor as I do for Kerry.

[renaissanceguy]

20. Go Dean!

You're right, Straight Shooter. Where is the apology?? The MSM branded him a McGovern-esque "unelectable" candidate. They bashed him because they were puppets of the Bush administration's deception. Yet he was right all along. And now they have the nerve to say "oh, maybe the war isn't going so well." Piss on them.

http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.15841637

[Peace Patriot]

35. They're not just saying "the war isn't going well"...

...they're using it as the chief excuse for why Bush's approval ratings are so low, 48%-49%, lowest of any recently "re-elected" president in 50 years, and have actually dropped lower since the election.

It's Iraq, you see. Not going so well. No thought given to 48% being Bush's actual vote total (like the Exit Polls say).

Oh, their excuses and floundering around for an explanation is hilarious.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-bushpolls28dec28,1,7019609.story

[Bill Bored]

2. YOU BET!

He's got it exactly right! Put him at the head of the class and the DNC for this if no other reason! Love the part about "by referendum if necessary" too. Of course the vote for the referendum could be hacked, but at least a referendum would have a non-partisan "feel" to it and if the Republicans come out against it, they could be attacked for it publicly.

Oh, and here's my letter to my reps on this very subject:
<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x205706>

[JD Lau]

15. referendum sounds interesting! and what a nice continuation

of the whole process.

[fearnobush]

6. This quote is the best part.

"HD: Right. I think one the things we can all agree on is election fraud is a huge issue for us and we should move on that. I think the war is an incredibly foolish undertaking as you’re well aware. I think that we’re going to have to choose what our issues are going to be. It’s very hard to focus the attention of the country on maybe two or three issues at once. I think the war is a really important issue but I think that as time goes on particularly after the President’s inauguration, there will be more and more focus on the war, But right now, the election is fresh on our mind, and I really do think we should focus on the questionable results of the election in some of the states such as Ohio."

[garybeck]

7. funny that he mentioned referendums

he was governor of VT, which is one of the few remaining states that doesn't have a referendum law

[zimba]

8. Excellent perspective from Dean. I always did think that

a Dean / Kucinich ticket would have been the best we could have had. Maybe 2008.

[MarkusQ]

19. Isn't it curious that so many people prefered Dean...

and yet Kerry got the nomination. It almost reminds me of something...

Was it the way so many people prefered McCain, and Bush got the nomination? No, that's not it.

Something involving Bush and Kerry maybe?

--MarkusQ

[merh]

23. Sorry, you are wrong about that.

But go ahead and keep deluding yourself. No harm, no foul!

[MarkusQ]

25. Which point am I--IYHO--wrong on? (n/t)

[merh]

26. That most folks preferred Dean!

Of course, it is easy to understand your confusion. Letting emotions get in the way of reality happens to us all!

[madfloridian]

27. 37 states never got to vote for him in the primaries. That is reality.

Including the most populous ones, NY, CA, and FL.

[merh]

28. So, that doesn't mean he was the most popular.

You Deaniacs need to get over it. He still has stepped up to the plate in all of this election fraud controversy. Jeez!

[madfloridian]

31. No, that is not what I said. Jeez.

I just said that 37 states never got to vote for him. But, now that you mention it he was pretty damn popular until the party got started calling him a liberal. LOL

Deaniacs...not getting over. Not done yet.

[merh]

39. You mean Dean doesn't like being called a liberal? He is

ashamed to be called a liberal. :freak: Is he afraid of the left? Does he want to be a centralist, a repuglite? Damn glad he didn't win the primaries.

You and I both know that Dean pooped in his wheaties when he told the media he was going to straighten them out! Talk about tipping off the enemy to a plan. :silly:

[madfloridian]

41. He has said to call him anything you like. Wow, your comments.

I am shocked you are so angry at someone you know so little about. That is really a shame.

[merh]

42. I am annoyed that Deaniacs prefer to put Dean on a pedastal

and slam Kerry rather than recognizing that both are simple humans with faults. I am annoyed that Deaniacs can't get over the fact that he lost the primaries. For every fault you can find for Kerry, I can find one for Dean.

Don't be shocked, my post was simple sarcasm. Your poss tend to be the mean and angry ones.

[madfloridian]

47. I do not go after Kerry, never have, never will. Unfair criticism.

I have never said a word about Kerry's losing the election. I am not at all sure anyone could have won on our side at all.

You are very full of anger and hate toward all of us, when most of what you say is undeserved.

Do I resent they went after him in the primaries. You bet I do. But we are still here, still organized, still enthusiastic.

[merh]

52. I am not full of hate or anger towards anyone but the BFEE.

I am, however, tired of folks putting Dean on the pedastal. He has made his mistakes, during the primary and after the election. He is human, just like the rest of us. Just as Kerry harmed himself in the election in a number of ways, Dean did the same during the primaries.

Don't accuse me of being fulling of anger and hate toward all of you, that is not the case. Just let me know when Dean steps up to pitch a fit about the election fraud. You see, I do consider him one of the leaders of the party, and as such the election was stolen from him, just like it was stolen from me.

[madfloridian]

57. That is what this post is about. Election fraud. Did you read it?

You are being over the top here about stuff, ok?

[Capn Sunshine]

61. No one has Dean on a pedestal

While we admire him and his work, it's the democtic process we have on a pedestal, and the potential we have in this country to truly be a beacon of light to the world.

If you could get past your immediate dismissal of all things Dean related and see this, we'd be happy to have another body for our mission.

Kerry's campaign sucked, and he was a vastly flawed candidate, as many of us pointed out ad infinitum.


But that is in the past. What do you want to do to help us create our own vision of the future?

[merh]

62. See, there ya go -- slamming Kerry when he won more votes

than any candidate before him (with the exception of the idiot weed boy and a good many people believe he stole a portion of his votes.)

"Kerry's campaign sucked, and he was a vastly flawed candidate, as many of us pointed out ad infinitum."

He did pretty damned good for having run such a lousy election.

[Capn Sunshine]

63. considering his opposition, he should have DOMINATED

He should have won in a landslide. Not had it close enough to steal.
He ran a lousy campaign, and no ammount of repetition in a mirror is going to change that fact.

[merh]

64. Considering the MSM totally gave the shrub a free ride, totally

ignored the Kerry/Edwards campaign, so much so that folks were asking "where is John Edwards". Considering the fact that the weed illegally campaigned on federal bases and got free air time. He did great. The campaign wasn't perfect, but it wasn't lousy. You ought to face reality and recognize that no one, not even your precious Dean, would have won or could have won. imho, Dean's numbers would have been a lot lower than Kerry's.

[MarkusQ]

30. Ok, maybe the polls were wrong.

You're of course right, I'm only assuming most people preferred Dean. But it's quite possible they just lied to the pollsters.

--MarkusQ

[merh]

43. links please

n/t

[MarkusQ]

44. When you can't remember, Google

http://www.primarymonitor.com/news/stories2003/082803_polls_use_2003.shtml

http://www.americanresearchgroup.com/nhpoll/dem/

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/07/dean_holds_strong_lead_over_kerry_in_nh_poll/

and on, and on...

--MarkusQ

[merh]

48. Oh, THOSE silly polls pre-Dean scream.

Kerry was not responsible for the press sabotaging Dean. Dean pooped in his wheaties when he threatened the press, so they went after him. Funny thing, Kerry won the primaries!

[madfloridian]

50. 37 states did not get to vote for Dean or for Clark.

37 states did not get to exercise their right to choose a nominee.

BTW, your "pooped in his wheaties" is tasteless, almost childish.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

55. Not true at all. He was leading in a lot of them. Tell the truth.

Your post is offensive to me.

[MarkusQ]

60. Strawman.

No one is saying Kerry sabotaged Dean. We are saying that 1) Dean was leading, 2) Dean did much worse on (primary) election day than was expected, 3) Dean's reaction to this was spun by the media and it sunk him.

This same thing happened to Gore in 2000, and (to a lesser extent) to McCain in 2000 primaries, and may be happening to Kerry now--undoubtedly would be, if he was having any reaction that could be spun.

--MarkusQ

[saracat]

51. Some posters appear to be setting people against one another.

Some people love to keep making long done primaries an issue. Could it be they enjoy controversy?

[garybeck]

58. but the results would have been the same

there would have been no less election fraud with any other candidate.

the question is, who is most willing to fight the election fraud fight head on?

logically Kerry would be best at it with his law experience and lawyer friends. Dean's experience as a doctor would not be much help.

[KnowerOfLogic]

9. Right on; and there needs to be a focus on doing this in FL and OH. nt

[thanatonautos]

10. Dean hits the nail on the head. eom

[malatesta1137]

11. the man Darth Rove was really afraid of

lucky for us he's still very young.

[FogerRox]

22. right on ---dean for DNC chair

From now untill jan. 6th.My Mission: TARGET CBS

Join the protest @ CBS in NYC or protest in DC--or protest a TV station in your area. If enough Peeps show @ CBS I will extend the efforts to other outlets.

http://www.51capitalmarch.com /
[e-mail] /

[berniew1]

13. Regarding Dean's emphasis on partisan officials; here's what to do now

I have gone through the EIRS election incident reports at
www.voteprotect.org to document widespread vote machine fraud patterns that occurred in Florida. http://www.flcv.com/fraudpat.html

But in doing so I saw large numbers of cases reported of obvious partisan actions that resulted in vote swings by officials and poll workers. This is malfeasance and should not be tolerated as it is contrary to the possibility of a democratic process.

People should go through the thousands of EIRS incident reports at http://www.voteprotect.org to compile obvious cases of partisan malfeasance, which resulted in people not being able to vote or their vote being recorded for someone other than their choice(both commonly happened). These should be reported on this list and to Arnebeck and authorities, as malfeasance should not be tolerated in officials.
Go to reseeach/maps click on state of choice and counties of choice
compile cases of malfeasance or indications of fraud if seen.
Such will be useful to Arnebeck, etc.

[Darkhawk32]

18. There was some good news in Missouri.....

Robin Carnahan, daughter of the late Mel Carnahan (former Governor) and Jean Carnahan (former Senator), is now the Secretary of State of Missouri! I have a feeling that elections will be run just a tad bit more on the up-and-up, at least for the next 4 years.

I will be trying to contact her to have a referendum placed on the ballot ASAP, hopefully on the 2006 ballot, so that it'd be in place for the 2008 elections.

Note, that this COULD be placed as a State Constitutional Amendment, which would be even more effective.

Also note, Missouri is mostly a blackened oval state, so this would have little effect on the vote count itself, but could serve as a precedent for other states to follow.

Any advice on how to proceed would be appreciated.

[madfloridian]

21. Calls for a "focus on election officials."

SNIP..."..focus on election officials. County Clerks, Secretaries of State in particular, because the Republicans have been so partisan in exercising their responsibility to help people vote, they‘ve in fact tried to suppress turnout instead of encourage it.."

[yourout]

32. Should have said......

SNIP..."..focus on election officials. County Clerks, Secretaries of State in particular, because the Republicans have been so partisan in exercising their responsibility to help people vote, they‘ve in fact SUPPRESSED turnout instead of encouraged it.." If even one voter did not vote because of the actions of them it should be prosecuted as a civil rights violation.

[Snivi Yllom]

24. your future DNC leader at work (nt)

[ShinerTX]

34. If he had been the nominee...

...we wouldn't have had the hell of the past month that we've had. He would have pesonally fought for every single vote.

[saracat]

49. Prove it.

[keepthemhonest]

36. This is what I am talking about

revamp the whole thing. Sounds like he actually wants to bring our voting system laws up to the 21 century.

yaaaaaahhhhhhoooooooooooooo Dean. Sorry I could not resist

[Peace Patriot]

37. He is absolutely, totally right on!

1. A paper trail for every vote.
2. Open source code.

or (better)

1. Paper ballot.
2. Hand count.

And it will have to be done locally, state by state, by highly focused grass roots groups, A.S.A.P., while we still have the power to do it.

Congress is not only NOT going to help, BushCons could make things worse.

Diebold machines et al--into Boston Harbor!

[DemOperative]

38. we could use a dozen Howard Deans

but thank Goddess we have the one for now.

I'll never understand why this straight talking man has any enemies in the Democratic Party.

Or at DU for that matter.

[Generator]

40. Well hot damn he actuallly says FRAUD

"I think one the things we can all agree on is election fraud is a huge issue for us and we should move on that."

Howard Dean gets it. Those shirts and skirts in congress and in the senate do you? It's not so hard, really.

It's:

Voter suppression. Your voters, baby. The ones that vote for you. Soon you won't have a job if you don't figure this out.

It's not rocket science people!! It's not an over the top conspiracy.

[Dancing_Dave]

45. Damn Right he does!

:headbang:

[Senator]

54. Just like he actually said "Stolen Election"...

...during the campaign.

And after hearing and reading barrels full of "analysis," from outsiders and insiders, since the campaign ended -- nothing has changed my view that his willingess to engage in simple honesty on that watershed event (far worse than 9-11) was the seminal reason behind his meteoric rise.

____
www.thedeanpeople.org

[madfloridian]

56. What a great site....this link is especially neat.

http://www.thedeanpeople.org