Question about possible Rove-Blackwell contact election day

[McCamy Taylor]

I seem to recall reading something about a White House plane being seen in Ohio on election day or election eve. I know I have read denials that Rove had any contact with Blackwell on those days.

I hate to start another thread if there is already one can someone direct me to it and I will delete this one.

I have been wondering since election morning who told Blackwell to try to keep exit pollsters away from polling places in Ohio and when the decision was made and how the order was given to him. Did it come straight from Rove in advance or was it a last minute decision made when it became apparent that the election was not going to be close and that there would be a noticeable exit poll/vote tally discrepancy. Attempting to block exit polls was a BIG RISK. It certainly caught my eye on election morning. It was like waving a big red flag that said

ELECTION THEFT IN PROGRESS IN OHIO :wtf:

The fact that Blackwell tried to hinder the exit pollsters was the number one reason why I began sending letters to Congresspeople the very next day.

Anyway, I have been wondering if Rove or a trusted underling was dispatched to Ohio to tell Blackwell that Operation Stop Those Exit Polls was going to have to be implemented, even if it meant taking a chance that the press would notice that something wierd was going on. It isnt the kind of thing you would want to send by email or over the phone.

[Absolute Truth]

1. I'm obviously being dense here, but....

...what would be the benefit for the GOP to stop EXIT polls.

I understand voter suppression (fewer booths in black districts and other even dirtier tricks). By why would Rove or anyone else care about exit polls. They don't really mean anything in the final analysis, after all.

AT

[Carolab]

3. The exit polls

were showing Kerry won, and won big, that's why

[mod mom]

9. to discredit them and so they would not be used in future election thefts

[troubleinwinter]

2. ?? I had never heard of exit polls being hindered????

[s-cubed]

4. The Nevada Secretary of State told me he did not allow exit

polls. I don't know what he did to prevent them, or if it mattered.

[troubleinwinter]

6. Wow. That is strange, huh? But interesting.

[NVMojo]

17. ...and tie that in with the fact that the asshole has never corrected

even one media source on the fact that Nevada did NOT have statewide Sequoias with printers ....you think he might be honest?? NOT!!! This asshole has been pushing the machines like there was no tomorrow and yet never tried to find a way to get rid of the ten year old Sequoias in Vegas that can't prove individual votes ...only totals in a recount ...that's why the jerk kept the pollsters away ...they rigged parts of the election in Nevada but no one gives a shit.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2004/Oct-20-Wed-2004/news/25041510.html

in his mind, election polling screwed up the 2000 election yet ...

[s-cubed]

10. The Nevada Secretary of State told me he did not allow exit

polls. I don't know what he did to prevent them, or if it mattered.

[s-cubed]

11. The Nevada Secretary of State told me he did not allow exit

polls. I don't know what he did to prevent them, or if it mattered.

[garybeck]

34. MSM sued Blackwell for restricting exit pollers

this has been discussed here:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=194967

[WhoWantsToBeOccupied]

5. Blackwell denied meeting Bush

I'm virtually certain I watched Keith Olbermann ask Kenneth Blackwell whether he had met Bush on Election Day, and Blackwell denied meeting Bush that day. This was a few weeks back when Blackwell was a guest on "Countdown." (I was confused by Keith's question because I thought I had read that they had met the day before the election. I also wished Keith had broadened his question to include all of Bush's White House aides.)

[L. Coyote]

20. Keyword is "on Election Day." Perhaps at 11 pm the night before ...

Sometimes how the question is phrased is a great gift to the obfuscator. A good reporter would have asked, "When did you meet with Bush, Rove, or other campaign officials on or just before Election Day?"

[FreepFryer]

7. Here's the info:

Nov. 2 (Election Day):
"Air Force One landed in Columbus about 11:30 a.m., delivering the president straight from Crawford, Texas, where he had cast his vote earlier. The president's motorcade immediately headed for the Bush-Cheney campaign headquarters at 580 S. High St., where Bush thanked the staff and volunteers for their hard work and encouraged them to get out the vote throughout the day."

from http://columbusdispatch.com/election/election-local.php?story=dispatch/2004/11/02/vote.html

If i recall correctly, Olbermann asked if Blackwell met with Bush on Election Day in his capacity as SoS of the election, which Blackwell denied. He did not specifically deny meeting with Bush in his capacity as campaign mgr.

[greenmutha]

8. Hi Freep Fryer!

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[McCamy Taylor]

12. Not really concerned that Bush gave him any orders, Bush is too dumb to

orchestrate anything.

The attempt to hinder exit pollsters in the state of Ohio occured in the early morning hours of election day and was over almost as soon as it started because the networks got restraining orders...they do not take that kind of thing lying down.

I have wondered why more people dont mention this, because this is the single most suspicious thing that Blackwell has done in my opinion. It got wide press on election morning, because all the newspeople were major pissed off about it, but afterwards they all develeoped collective amnesia about it...just about the same time they developed amnesia about the exit poll results.

[sepia_steel]

19. WWWWWWWTTTTTTTTTTTTFFFFFFFFFFF??????????

I forgot all about that!!!! There is NO FUCKING WAY that Bush/Rove and Blackwell didn't speak that day. PLEASE.

The more I'm reminded, the more obvious it is and the more pissed off I am. This just fucking reeks to high heaven!!! But 80% of us find this perfectly above suspicion?

WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[euler]

29. We seem to be surmising that they spoke.

I'll simply assume that they did speak. If we don't know what was said between them, how does this help us ?

[DoYouEverWonder]

25. What's with that link you posted?

I keeps crashing my computer and my compter rarely gets hung up on anything.

[FreepFryer]

28. No clue...

try a diff browser, clear yer cache, change yer JavaScript properties, bla bla bla! :)

[Last Lemming]

13. And the fat man

I think this is actually an interesting episode that few people have talked about Bush flew all the way from Texas to Ohio on election day to wave to his supporters? Actually, I read that some supporters showed up at this "campaign rally" only to watch him get out of the limo, go into a building and then come out again a half an hour later

Bush at the scene--could they be so stupid as to have POTUS put the fix in--in person? I think they may have--

Bush is mentioned specifically in Arnebacks suit re: election fraud--he's being subpoena'd--or they've tried anyway--

Was a fat man at the meeting? (In my dreams he wears a wire)

[Patsy Stone]

14. In my dreams

he sits at a laptop in the Old Family Dining Room with a spreadsheet or Access database and a modem. :)

[Last Lemming]

15. wrong fat man

for my particular fantasy

There was a big fat guy--picture floating around one of the message boards before the election. He was billed as a "may or may not be a team player--republican asset" sort of guy I don't know why I remember him--he worked with Blackwell--how closely is anyone's guys

I know someone could have been standing somewhere in that building Bush visited on election day and if he was wearing a wire then Kerry will be president

These guys--I mean Kerry et al-- haven't shown us any of what evidence they've got All they've cited is a deposition by someone reporting on a post election event

[Patsy Stone]

16. Ah So

I like mine, but I hope yours comes true, too.

:)

[zann725]

18. Yeah, I read that too. Supporters said he just wisked by, did not talk

to them. My (paranoid) guess is he (or someone on Air Force One) dropped by in person to hand off some sort of 'payment' or 'cash' as gratitude for the 'deed to be done' that day...that he did NOT want lost in the 'mail' or otherwise documented. Plus an in-person, last-minute hand-shake to those 'doing his deed' ensured it would be done, as promised.

The Ohio lay-over was suspiciously short...and certainly NOT to impress last-minute voters...since he seemed to rush by them. And after all, he didn't really NEED their actual votes.

I keep hoping that someone had some sort a 'camera' or 'surveillance' recording the hand-off. But that's just my hope.

[Machiavelli05]

21. I must say...

I dont like the fact that the head of elections in Ohio and the campaign manager for B/C in Ohio is the same person.

However, any fraud that results from this will be difficult to prove... unless the Head of elections for OH (SoS) wrote any letters to the Camp Man for B/C in OH... ;) Then he'd just be a certifiable nutcase.

[IStriker]

38. But it's not even a little bit unusual. Rendell in PA...

ran Kerry's campaign and made all these strange rulings about sending people to polls that worked for him (stuff that had never been done for an election in PA and set a lot of people's suspicions off especially since any Democrat from Philly is pretty much assumed to be involved with election fraud.) We don't really have someone comparable to Sec. of State position. There is some appointed board that sets parameters and the elected people in each county run elections under the Governor's instructions.

[Quakerfriend]

22. There was some video of his visit to OH

He was in the campaign HQ thanking folks. I can't remember where I saw this! I know it was on cable though.

[Quakerfriend]

23. I just remember him making some stupid joke

and looking at him and thinking: He looks so tired, face all red and blotchy......why go to OH.......when you can take a rest now?

[Not a Sheep]

24. Let's get serious...

Assuming Blackwell was following various orders from Rove, do you really think Rove is stupid enough to meet with him on election day?

Assuming there was a plan to commit fraud or to deter voting for Kerry, Rove would not have had to meet face to face with Blackwell at the 11th hour.

[rjbny62]

26. excellent point

it doesn't seem reasonable that he would have waited until the last hour

[KerryOn]

27. Bush, Blackwell and Damschroder Did Meet!

... acording to the Free Press. I new I had read it some where, just took me forever to find it. It may have also ben covered on a AP story.

Sources close to the Board of Elections told the Free Press that Damschroder and Ohio’s Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell met with President George W. Bush in Columbus on Election Day. The idea was to discourage turnout in Democratic wards by forcing voters to wait in long lines at the polling places.

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/972

Here is a U thread that has a little on it as well:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x95767

[troubleinwinter]

30. Two words:

Criminal Conspiracy

[righteous1]

33. "Sources close to the BOE" told.... cmon

think we can get a bit more substantive. If it happened it ought to be quite easy to verify and prove, without relying on heresay from a nobody as your main sustantiation.

[KerryOn]

39. Agreed because as I said: "According to the Free Press" n/t

[righteous1]

40. I was actually directing my comments to FP article rather than you

[troubleinwinter]

41. One of many good reasons to put Blackwell under oath for a deposition.

[IStriker]

31. I'm finally going to go out on a limb and ask my DUMB question...

that I have resisted asking since election day. What on earth do exit polls have to do with the outcome of the election? Four years ago, the networks couldn't use them because they were screwy and did not predict the outcome. I read someplace that pollsters admitted to polling too many women this time and that Republicans admitted to lying to the pollsters just to screw up the polls, so why are people basing their belief that there must have been fraud if the results of the election didn't match them? Some American company did the exit polling for the recall election in Venezuela and their results were badly off too. Why is this being used to try to prove fraud? I just don't understand. Can someone please help?

[righteous1]

32. That is not a dumb questions, there is

a lot of validity in what you ask. Some of the exit polls were extremely skewed ie Kerry +12% in PA. There was not a poll in 6 months that showed even half that lead in PA for JK. There were some serious problems with the proceedure and models used to be that far off.

[IStriker]

35. That's what I fail to understand. How can this be used as proof...

that fraud occurred? Not only does exit polling not match the voting, but it doesn't match the previous polling done either. I think I heard that the exit polls showed Kerry +19% in PA at some point in the early evening. Other states mostly in the south had Kerry up in exit polling when he had never been anything but so far behind he didn't bother to campaign in them.

[unpossibles]

36. good points and questions

but the exit polls are still not to be entirely discounted either, or why would the media companies spend so much money for them?

Keep in mind that pre-election polls did not poll cell phone users as far as I know, nor new voters, so may have been skewed by that alone.

Also, the "polled too many women" excuse doesn't work when they have the polls broken down by male/female already.

Finally, altough the polls are not the end-all be-all of info that some think they are, they are used as one indicator of fraud - if the polls are blocked, there is one fewer indicator (and in some precincts, the only indicator) if there was monkey business.

Hope this helped.

[Last Lemming]

43. As I understand it

exit polls are very accurate and have been used for years to cue early election night reporting Come year 2000, exit polls didn't seem to work as well--they kept favoring Democrats like Gore when the "real" winner is Bush--

Note--they get revised in real time and this revision can be very interesting in and of itself---I heard a news analyst commenting about the sampling problems--he said they had to go back and recalculate because "it seemed they had overestimated the number of minority voters--this of course is what vote supression and targetted vote manipulation is all about

[IStriker]

44. Wasn't the exit polling always done for years up until 2000...

by Voter News Service the consortium of the networks plus CNN (or something like that)from at least the '70's on, and beginning in 2000 where it has been inaccurate ever since has been done by some other new group? How do we know this new group isn't the problem? I don't know if this is the same group who screwed up the exit polling for the Venezuelan recall or if it was a different American group that was involved, but they were certainly wrong or else there was voter fraud there too. I understand what you are saying but it strikes me that the only poll that counts is the one on election day where people actually go and do it. They either wait in line or they leave and say it's not important enough for me to stand here; they either show up or they don't; and until the actual vote is in and counted all other polls are "guesstimates."

[FreepFryer]

37. kick

and refocus - the topic isn't the accuracy of exit polls, it's what meetings took place between one half of blackwell's mind (the SoS part) and the other half (the Campaign Manager part).

In other words, whether there was improper conduct, interference or influence by one party (the GOP) on the OH election.

:eyes:

[Last Lemming]

42. Abso--f*ing--lutely

Someone above wrote: Assuming Blackwell was following various orders from Rove, do you really think Rove is stupid enough to meet with him on election day?

Maybe Rove isn't so stupid but it may not be a stretch for Bush--Even so--Can you imagine how stupid it could be to send the POTUS to put the fix in ON ELECTION DAY!! But that may be what happens when you aren't reality based--and haven't had to be reality based for a long time--maybe if you have been getting away with murder for years, you think you can send the president of the United States as bag man on an election fixing scheme

I remember long ago when they nailed Spiro Agnew, Nixon's VP --Some guy testified that he walked out of an office shaking because he had just handed over $20,000 cash to the Vice President of the United States (who stuffed it in a drawer)

A friend of mine from Eastern Europe doesn't know American electoral process--I remarked to him that a campaign stop by the president on election day was very unusual and not really proper protocol--but it wasn't a campaign stop

The Big Question remains: Why would BUSH have to go to Columbus--why not Rove, or other little Rovettes go? And was Blackwell there? If someone can pin Blackwell in that building when Bush was there then you've got one very important question to ask KBlackwell on his deposition Why on TV did you lie about whether you met Bush on election day?

Are there still investigative reporters that find these things out?