He saw the fraud before anyone else, and they called him a troll....

[ShinerTX]

I was browsing the archives tonight, and I was amazed at this thread, which was posted by politmuse1 early on election night--around 10pm or so. His key phrase:

-snip-

It's happening again, folks. WAKE UP. We're not losing a damn thing. People voted Kerry, the machines switched to Bush. If we can't prove it and Kerry concedes, we'll never, ever have a real vote in this country again. NEVER.

-snip-

Read his whole post. It's amazing how quickly he grasped what was going on, and how right his last sentence has turned out to be.

And the funniest part? Everyone called him a troll at the time. Little did they know...

[Stand and Fight]

1. Sigh...

That's really too bad. I wish that people had actually listened to him, rather than jumping to the idiotic conclusion that he was a troll. Betcha they're still eating their crow with their damn heads up their collective asses.

[Clark2008]

8. I knew about the voting machine mess

thanks to a wondeful blogger and friend whom I met campaigning for Wes Clark.

I think she also posts here.

Read through here at your convenience: http://sonoran-desert.forclark.com/

[spooked911]

2. although many of us suspected the same thing, I think most of us were

really in shock over the sudden turn of events on election day.

I don't know why the guy was called a troll though. Seems like a large percentage of DUers now believe the election was stolen.

[Goldeneye]

5. I didn't get suspicious

until a day or two after the election...I think I was in shock for immediately following the election.

[Goldeneye]

3. That poor kid.

I hope he's still around? We could probably use his insight.

[Terre]

4. WOW! peaches2003 also n/t

[Eric J in MN]

6. People were touching Kerry on touchscreens and finding Bush on the review

screen in early voting, before Nov. 2.

Many people don't check the review screen.

When there is a "voter verified paper ballot" printed behind glass, most voters don't verify that.

The "voter verified paper ballot" design in which the voter puts the ballot into the ballot box makes more sense, because then they will check it.

Unfortunately, California is requiring that people DON'T handle their paper ballots from electronic machines.

[Tinoire]

7. Tragic. Hope he's still around. What an amazing thread

for the archives of fanatical denial!

DU should find that poster and give him a star.

Good find but sad to read.

[Amaryllis]

9. He figured it out so quickly because like me and others who'd been

following the e-voting issue in the months leading up to the election, it was a given that it would be hacked.

I was sitting there on Nov. 2 watching the returns with friends I'd worked on the campaign with and when things started to turn, I was saying, "It's the damn machines, they did it again, this is the third time!I knew they were going to do it!" And I was absolutely freaking out because I knew exactly what you said above: "People voted Kerry, the machines switched to Bush. If we can't prove it and Kerry concedes, we'll never, ever have a real vote in this country again. NEVER." And here I was freaking out and my friends were looking at me with these blank stares.

I'd been talking about it for months and trying to get them interested in the bills in the house and senate s. 1980 and HB 2239, but they just weren't getting it.

All during the campaign when people would talk about if Kerry would win or not, I'd say he would for sure if it's not hacked but it will be hacked and it just depends on how badly, and whether we can get enough of a margin to offset the hacking. What I didn't realize was that it didn't matter how much of a margin we had, they'd make sure they had just that much more.

So for any of us who had really been following the history of e-voting and knew the connections with the companies and the Bushies, it was a given when the numbers started changing. I was feeling really alone at that time because none of my friends knew what I was talking about and were buying into the "we lost" thing. All during the campaign when I'd talk about it, they would look at me with these blank stares,and that's what they were doing on election night. But then when all the articles by Thom Hartman, etc. started coming out, and I started emailing them, they came around and said, "You were right.Now I get it."

I didn't know about DU then. I wouldn't have felt so alone if I had. It was awful not knowing anyone else who was following the e-voting stuff, and fully understanding the implications of what it meant long term. I was just going to lots of sites like BBV but I didn't know anyone I could talk to and I was depressed and freaked out for months. It would have helped a whole lot to have had DU.

Now I am working with several groups of people who are as obsessed as I am with the whole fraud issue, who do really get it.

[loudsue]

15. Good job, Amaryllis! You educated some people! That counts!

I'm sorry you were "wandering in the wilderness" of BBV all alone. I wonder just how many people there REALLY ARE out there, who still don't know that there really is an "underground" made up of people who feel much like they do. There have to be millions!

When I went to a Kerry/Edwards rally before the campaign, I was holding up a DU sign so that other DUers could find our small group, and NOBODY else around us knew about DU!!! Several people asked, and I was happy to tell them! But the K/E fans were all there, screaming and cheering -- hard core Dems, hoping for a turn-around in the impending demise of the America we grew up in....and out of THOUSANDS, nobody knew about DU but our group.

DU is the magical salve that heals that lonely wound... at least it has been for a big majority of us here.

Keep up the good work educating those around you. That's the only way we're going to turn this boat around.

:kick::kick:

[DELUSIONAL]

10. He's been a DU member since 2002

and still only has 64 posts -- Which is about where I was on 2 November. I checked the profile.

One could send him or her a message.

That was a rough night -- I knew that when people started looking at the numbers -- the details of where the votes came from that the vote fraud would become obvious.

The first bit of evidence for me came when a math whiz looked at the glitches and errors and ALL went to bush -- my gut feeling that something was wrong with the numbers was correct.

This individual has excellent insight -- we need him or her insight on DU.

[mycatforpresident]

12. True, but don't forget

that there are many DU members who have been following machine fraud for quite some time. That insight is at your fingertips.

Was this person the only one who knew about this here on Election night? That seems surprising given the number of people who post daily.

[bunny planet]

11. Somebody called Malloy's show the night before the election and he

told him that there wasn't anything that could be done, they were going to steal the election. He said Kerry would have to get over 70% of the vote in order to foil them stealing it. He was a lawyer, and something about the way he explained it or the tone of his voice, he sounded so sad, made me sit up and take notice...... I went to bed that night and told my husband that I was afraid it would be stolen.

I got up early, put on my little Eminem-style mosh the vote hoodie and went off to vote. My town is very democratic leaning, so the vibe was very Kerry here. Came back from voting pumped, doing the happy dance. I even sang songs 'Ding Dong the Witch is dead, whatever, then got back to work.

I had friends over that night to watch the results and John Stewart's special. I even bought a bottle of champagne, I've always blamed myself for jinxing it by doing that. We didn't watch much network coverage of the poll results coming in, just Dan Rather, cause we know he despises *. At a certain point in switching back and forth between channels we all turned to each other, with wide-eyed stares. We said it almost in unison, all 6 of us watching, 'They stole it again,' It was the most awful sinking feeling. I'd been waiting since election night 2000 for this nightmare to be over. I hope it will be sooner than 2008, much sooner, if you catch my drift.

[whometense]

21. This is the first time since Nov. 2 that I've thought about that day.

It's been too painful. I took the day off from work and after voting went into Boston to volunteer. The Kerry office was overflowing with volunteers, and downtown was jubilant.

There was a mob of people standing in front of the Union Oyster House, waiting for Kerry to come and have lunch. Then people just stood there for over an hour, waiting for him to come out. There was a strange but lovely feeling - like he wasn't just ours anymore.

I walked all the way home from downtown. Watched the returns on the computer with my 18-year-old son, who had just voted for the first time. Felt sick.

There was a bit in Newsweek - I don't have the link right now, but it was about Alexandra Kerry falling into her father's arms and crying because she was so afraid they would steal the election. And he comforted her, saying, "We won't let that happen." I know what kind of father Kerry is. He would never let his daughters down.

[Firespirit]

24. OK I'm about to make a puddle now myself.

And I thought the crying part was over.

OTOH, that's the kind of image that you cry over not out of despair, but because it is so moving.

And if that's the quote, it means he doesn't have his head in the sand either -- not "they wouldn't do that," but "WE won't let that happen."

PLEASE, Senator, be true to your word.

[helderheid]

13. wow

So sad to see a can of troll spray after that. :(

[grasswire]

14. he posted at 9:36 p.m.

Is that about the time that the networks got an audience with The Family? Anyone got a time stamp on that video clip of the Bushes grinning?

[RevCheesehead]

26. Yes...I believe it happened about the same time.

I remember that post, because at that point, some states (including FL, I think) which were trending Kerry, suddenly went to *. Many of us thought that was just a blip, and Ohio would pull it out for us.

Oh, that was not a good night at all.

[Straight Shooter]

16. "Everyone" did not call him a troll.

One overt reference, and a couple sideways references.

And then the final post, of which there were only seven: Bush not only is in the middle of stealing his second election, he has stolen the Constitution with his Patriot Act and with another 4 years he will steal the country.

I was watching DU closely, since I don't have television, and I noticed a lot of alarming threads about the time of bush's unprecedented press conference, and also a major "heads up" because Drudge's site indicated to "ignore the exit polls."

DU'ers knew something was up, there were many posts about "he's stealing it again, right before our eyes."

[helderheid]

17. God bless DU n/t

[auntcookie]

18. Greetings

My first post here. Just wondered why this country couldn't be more like the Ukraine and protest this election. The Ukraine election was declared invalid because of exit polling, yet "they" discounted exit polls here.

Whatsup? :shrug:

[Straight Shooter]

22. Greetings, auntcookie

Ukraine election declared invalid because exit polls were more skewed than here. Also, more importantly, because the winner is western-friendly; otherwise, U.S. would have ignored it. Media only broadcast it to show that "we're on the side of democracy" *snort*

Speculation about a CIA operative involved in Ukraine.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[intheflow]

29. I have wondered the same thing, auntcookie.

And I don't like any of the answers I've come up with.

a) Americans are lazy.
b) Americans are stupid.
c) Exit polls were conducted by the media to support corporations that have simultaneous interests in both media and defense contractors who benefit from having an administration in place that will perpetuate and increase stockholder returns o their goods and services. The media reports only on what will increase their market returns, and keeping Americans lazy and stupid (and fearful) allows them the freedom to abuse our rights with impunity.

OK, that was needlessly verbose. Sorry. Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Peace Patriot]

35. Americans are neither lazy, stupid nor fearful...

The TV networks altered the Exit Polls that night. It's very important to understand this, because it's why there was no Ukraine-like reaction from Kerry voters.

Late in the day, they began feeding the "official" Republican controlled electronic vote tabulation "results" into the Exit Poll figure on screen, and this made it look like Bush was winning both the Exit Polls and the "official" results. We did not get two separate figures to compare (as they did in the Ukraine). And this didn't' come out until about a week later (at least that's when I learned about it, with the Freeman report on 11/10). I picked up somewhere that Mifosky (the Exit Pollster) admitted that they did this.

Exit Polls are not useful at detecting fraud unless they are kept separate from the "official results." That is the point of Exit Polls--to COMPARE them to the "official results."

If we'd had two conflicting figures on our TV screens--the Exit Polls saying Kerry won, and the "official results" saying Bush won, you can be sure that we--Americans--would have been out on the streets. This lying piece of shit they did--mixing the results--is THE worst, most treasonous, most disgusting, journalistic crime that Bush's lapdog media has ever committed, bar none.

Some smart people took screen shots of the Exit Polls in the afternoon, before they began to be polluted with the "official results," and this is what Freeman used for his analysis.

But we don't have all the Exit Polling data. It undoubtedly shows a Kerry blowout. (What we have shows a Kerry win, I think by 3% to 4%.) Mifosky and networks refused to give it up.

Mifovsky's statement was something like they're still "analyzing" the data (uh-huh, I'll bet that's what they're doing to the data) and will release it sometime in the spring of '05. Conyers and others have asked for it. They refuse.

Americans saw through all the BushCon B.S. and voted these criminals out of the office. So, Americans are neither stupid nor lazy.

In fact, it was a feat of great intelligence and savvy--because Americans saw through it all WITH NO HELP FROM BUSH'S LAPDOG MEDIA! --in fact, with nothing but constant 24/7 Bush propaganda in their eyes and ears. So, what Americans did was AMAZING!

It was the greatest moment in our democracy's history!

Some may be fearful NOW. I don't think anybody was BEFORE, because we thought our democracy would work. I did, anyway. You get a bunch of lying, scumbag, mass murderers running your government, you vote them out, right?

I knew about electronic voting. I figured Kerry needed a 5% cushion to overcome it. I was wrong. As someone upthread commented, no amount of votes could have put Kerry in the White House. (Although, possibly a 70%-90% margin might have been impossible to fiddle--but BushCon dirty tricks and relentless propaganda news prevented anything like that. If some of the fools who voted for Bush, or who didn't vote, had had honest journalists on their TV screens during the campaign, Bush would have been reduced to his 20% to 30% white Christian fundamentalist base--his only real support, in my opinion, if all the truth about him and his cabal were on the airwaves.)

I had that horrible, sick feeling in my stomach, and my whole being, that people are describing--much like what people felt after JFK's assassination--for some hours on the evening of Nov.2--but, by midnight, I'd figured out that the early polls and the later polls could not be so out of whack (it's the working poor who vote in the evening! --didn't add up), and I had a working hypotheses of how they stole it. That made me feel much better. Then I found DU.

[IndyPriest]

36. VERY important to keep say thing this, peacepatriot!

The WHOLE meaning of not just the election but the movement of the country -- what we really think, feel, hope for, want (and not jsut for ourselves, but for the world) -- depends on us continuing to realize that Kerry won the election.

The amazing thing about a frame of reference is that it gives meaning to every other part of a story. The whole blue state/red state argument. The whole "shift to the right" stuff. All of the "Americans must be crazy" lines. The Bush fabricated mirror we look at to see ourselves at the moment is a FALSE mirror! Convincingly, Kerry won the election!

[intheflow]

39. Did you read my post?

It makes the same point you do, but with less words.

It was all about the corporate-controlled media controlling the exit polling and spoon-feeding it to America.

But I think that many Americans are lazy and fearful. Otherwise, why would there be such inaction among the people we DUers reach out to. Sure, we convince some people that this election was stolen, but I know a lot of people--even a lot of very smart people--who refuse to believe unless it's spelled out for them in the NYT or WP. Americans like being spoonfed information.

imho

[IndyOp]

38. There was a lot of money ($40 million) put into the Ukraine

by International arms of Democratic and Republican Parties of the US -- a chunk of that money went to preparing those protests in advance of the election -- they suspected that fraud would occur and had their plans made on what to do if there was any evidence that it had.

People see what they expect to see -- Ukrainains expected fraud, so they saw it. Americans expected a fair vote -- so they saw that.

It will take a lot of work to get the Americans to see the fraud. One possibility is that all we have to do is get a few Senators to see it and contest on Jan 6th that will break spell -- people will see that the Emporer has no clothers.

If that doesn't work then we are facing many months of work.

:kick:

[understandinglife]

20. Confirmed. Those of us who were up the entire night knew that...

....'grand theft america II' was now playing at all local theaters, and the only issue was would we allow it to end with a pathetic repeat of 6 Jan 2001.

WE WILL NOT.

Peace.

"Its 7 Jan 2005: do you know who your president is?"

[Dancing_Dave]

19. Wow, he was so right on!

I especially liked the prophetic opener-
"This is not the first time ... it's not the second time ... it's the THIRD TIME!!! The exit polls say Democrat, the "real" vote says Republican." :nopity:

[Firespirit]

23. I wasn't logged on to DU that night

My connection couldn't handle it.

I was sitting in my aunt's house with my mom and sisters.... Watching CNN, which turned out to be a good choice because they were the only network not to call Ohio for * that night.

R. Traitor Novak said early in the evening something about Ohio exit polls not looking good for *.

But when the FL and OH results were coming in, we all looked at each other.

"Florida's been Jebbed."
"Florida was Diebolded."
"Ohio's getting hacked."
"Ohio's being Diebolded too."

(I specifically remember hearing "Diebold" as a verb.)

It's burned in my memory. :cry:

Now it all rests on a network of dedicated lawyers and volunteers to blow the lid off the black box election. Or WE may have to play on THEIR level next time.

...I didn't write that last sentence. We'll get to the bottom of this. :)

[jbnow]

25. I wasn't reading DU then

I told my son that night the election had been stolen (and that I wanted he and his wife to move to Europe if it wasn't caught, the country didn't deserve them). The next day I told him I was punching numbers for Florida...that I was sure Kerry had won the popular and electoral votes.
The next day he told me he thought I was paranoid until he was reading DU and realized I might be right. That was when I came to DU for the first time...knew I wasn't alone in this. I could hardly wait for registration to open.

I am still certain that the election was stolen.
But I am much, much less certain that we'll be able to do a thing about it or that Kerry was working hard behind the scenes. I hope I am wrong about that part...

[malatesta1137]

27. bull

I said this NINE MONTHS before election night, go search the archives a little better.

[Carolab]

28. Gore Vidal

the night before election, said "Kerry will win but he'll never be allowed to assume the presidency".

[Vektor]

30. I knew it too...

As soon a Florida started to turn I was certain they were doing it again. In fact, I had a pretty sick feeling in my gut all day.

Black Tuesday.

I'll never forget it, a part of me died that day, as corny as that sounds.

[AzDar]

31. I KNEW something horrible was happening when the networks cut

away from regular election coverage and cut to the Bush Mafia gathered in the White House...the anchorman (I forget who it was)
called it "unprecedented" for a sitting President to call in the press while polls were still open, and I just KNEW.I started bawling; my husband concluded I was overwrought from all the election stress, gave me a xanax, and put me to bed. In the morning, I was DEVASTATED.
I still think that little impromptu "message" on election night was some sort of signal or diversion.This is a man, after all, who can't speak in complete sentences without cue cards or a teleprompter.

[roenyc]

32. Tuesday afternoon

the stock market report came on NY1 our local station and it was wild the pharmacy stocks where dropping. I turned to my son and said. YES!! a Kerry victory! they know he is going to allow drugs from Canada. So that was my first clue to a Kerry win. i went out and came back.

then all of a sudden like Jesus or something the stocks were rising. a miracle.

[EFerrari]

33. I saw that, too. A couple of miraculous phone calls to Big Pharma.

I went back and looked at my email. On 11/3, I was just so shocked, I didn't do much. By 11/4, I was downloading info and asking questions because I knew we couldn't have lost without fraud. My friends thought I'd lost my mind. Not any more.

[Truman01]

34. We should learn a lesson, view points we don't like

are not proof of the person being a troll. We are quick to bite off the head of anyone that goes against our collective will. Live and learn.

TC

[nmoliver]

37. so did my friend Gabriell ...

Gabriell and I arrived at my house and turned on the TV around 8pm. The newscaster was interviewing somebody who was talking about how a Kerry administration would function with a Republican congress. Kerry's victory was being taken as a fait accompli.

A few minutes later we went to the internet to look at the results. Bush was winning, 51-49. How did this happen?

Gabriell went pale. Ohhhhhhh, she said. It's been stolen.........

Nina