In which states did voting straight ticket Dem result in no vote for Kerry

[berniew1]

And in which states and counties did voting straight ticket Dem result in vote for Bush?

What was the mechanism by which this occurred?

[indianablue]

1. Here is my two cents...

Many computer programs have defaults in order not to generate errors.

Nulls are especially prone to error.

So most computer programs as with many other things have defaults.

I think if you voted straight democratic ticket you default on the Presidential candidate, which in turns would be Bush mainly due to being top of the ballot.

I think Kerry lost thousands if not millions of votes this way.

You should never vote str8 ticket and recheck before you cast..I think electronic voting should be outlawed in my opinion.

[Old and In the Way]

3. I agree.

I'll bet there were many, many people who are intimidated by the whole computer experience. I think many older/poorer Americans have no interface with a computer except on voting day. I suspect that they'd not even realize (or, if they did notice, would be too embarrassed or intimidated to complain) if their ballot defaults to Bush when they think they voted properly for Kerry. The logic routine I'd bet used would be something like:

(1) If Kerry, show Bush
(2) If reset, Kerry = Kerry, else Bush.


Heck, they could even put an algorithm in that activates the code every "x" ballots so as not to be duplicable if someone complains. The methodology would make non-computer poll watchers assume that there was simply a glitchy computer instead of a programmed code.

[IStriker]

7. I vote in Pa on touch screen...

after you have finished tapping by each candidate for each race, the next to last screen asks (if you skipped the race) did you mean to not vote in this (these races) race? The last screen where you push "finished" is a page showing every race and how you voted and tells you to push "finish" if that's correct, or "back" if it isn't. How does leaving the race unvoted become a vote for Bush?

[Old and In the Way]

8. Hey, I have no idea how your system worked.

My post was how it could be rigged to favor Bush. Since there is no nation-wide standard for software/hardware, I'm sure that some precincts had bullet-proof systems and others could well have had special algorithms built into their voting software.

There was a compilation of voting irregularities linked here a few weeks back. In that listing there were lots of complaints about voting problems that showed Bush when they voted Kerry. The person had to clear the error and then it took. I find it hard to believe that this was a random software error, especially when these errors only favored Bush.

[IStriker]

11. I'm certain every place is different in voting and there was a "glitch"...

at the place I vote on one machine. First, the state sent out no sample ballots this time which I've never seen before. The machine my husband used had no race on it for State Attorney General, just the one machine as far as I know. Mine had it, but there were 3 others being used, 2 that we don't know about. When he noticed and complained, they couldn't explain it; unplugged the machine and let him vote on another (not mine), but there's no way to tell how many voted before him on that one and didn't notice. As for your question, some elections you can vote a straight ticket and when you do, you can't skip any race (or you can choose to vote races one by one) but the same screens come up at the end, and you haven't voted until you push "finish."

I'm not crazy about this method of voting because there is no paper trail. We may have one of the better systems because I can't see any way you would not know if there was any rigging other than what happened with my husband - in other words leave the race off in a heavily Democrat area so nobody could vote for either candidate and the Democrat would suffer the most, but sooner or later (probably real soon if it was the top of the ticket) somebody would notice.

We vote in a very Republican precinct and the AG race was called for the Democrat early in the evening. By morning when they had counted all the rural parts of PA, they gave the race to the Republican by a good bit. I have no idea if this was part of an attempt to rig a race or just someone's error.

[Old and In the Way]

15. We really need national standards for national elections.

And it has to incorporate a paper ballot.

It's quite simple to introduce little suboutines that self-delete, too. The fact that you can see the results on a screen offers no assurance that the compiling logic is doing what it shows you.

Sadly, people making the purchasing decisions on voter systems probably are not experts at computers, but love the attention they get from the Diebolds, ES&S, etc. I'm sure they "trust" these people to do the right thing, but as a not-so-great President once said, "Trust, but verify".

[Zenlitened]

4. On outlawing electronic voting...

I agree, if it can't handle something as straightforward as straight-ticket voting.

I mean, that's a pretty simple concept, you would think. If I can click a box for "billing address is same as shipping address" when ordering a book online, how hard is it to click a box for "gimme all the democrats"?

Defaulting to Bush... yeah, that's an accident. Just a little quirk. Nothing see her, folks, let's move along... :grr:

[IStriker]

16. After reading posts from other states, that explains why you can vote...

straight ticket in Pa in some elections and you cannot in others. I noticed it, but never asked. Either PA has a law like N.C. or other states listed that the presidential race is not included, or there is some other federal restriction. Our machines have a first page with all the instructions for use and you must push "next" to get to the actual ballot. A straight ticket vote takes you to the last page where it shows all the races with your mark by the candidate you've chosen when you pick the party at the top. In presidential years, you have to vote each race separately with no straight ticket available.

I would prefer the old paper ballot we used to have with the penciled-in circle that the scanner reads. It's quick to process once the polls close, there is a paper record available and there's no problem of hanging chads, etc. and if for any reason it's necessary, the votes can be read without a machine.

[bleever]

2. I'm guessing this question may lead in a very fruitful direction.

Everyone can understand "preset machines" or "my vote jumped".

And it's obvious that when you have trouble with a machine, you open it up.

Pretty darn simple.

:thumbsup:

[berniew1]

18. But someone needs to followup and compile where the big mistakes were

It appears Kerry lost lots of votes due to mistakes or fraud(defaults and manipulation)in this manner. this should be dealt with in the recounts and also in reform.

Someone needs to compile where the problem is and the extent of the problem.

[vpigrad]

5. By law in SC...

a straight ticket does not select the vote for president. It worked that way for the mechanical machines but for all of the electronic ones, I've read that the straight party vote for the Democrats also illegally picked a vote for Kerry. The electronic machines didn't follow the legal procedure, so I do not understand why the electronic machines were allowed to be used.

[EC]

6. In Wisconsin

if you vote straight party, you also vote separately for President...when I got to the booth, I turned around and very loudly asked "Is it still if you vote straight party, you have to also vote separately for President" they said yes, and I could hear other people in line saying they didn't know that, or no-one told them that...anyway...I don't know if it's the people's fault for not knowing the procedures or if it's the state's fault for not advertising more...As for defaults, don't know, how would we know?

[eowyn_of_rohan]

19. Did you use opti-scan or some other voting method? -nt

[EC]

22. lever -

what was used to count - I don't know....

[Zan_of_Texas]

9. In Texas.

We have Hart InterCivic (partially funded by Tom Hicks, one of the largest stockholders in Clear Channel and a long-time crony of George W.) that has DREs in Houston, Austin and Ft. Worth. Houston has 3.5 million people in the county (Harris), or, roughly the size of Iowa and Vermont put together.

There have been a number of problems with people trying to vote the straight Dem ticket and when they scroll through all the electronic pages, they find the vote didn't register. At least one person who has reason to know tells me the company knows about this, um, glitch.

I think straight party ticket voting should be banned, because it's just one more way to rig the vote. And, of course, I think the electronic tabulation should be booted out of elections.

Anything that is not human observable throughout the entire chain of voting and counting is not appropriate or secure.

[chapel hill dem]

10. NC

Here, a straight ticket vote would cover every race BUT President. The poll workers were explaining that to every voter in my precinct quite loudly. I waited about 10 minutes in line (early voting) and I must have heard "the speech" over 30 times. Also, it was written in red ink on the opscan ballot.

[slay]

14. I voted early in NC and was not told to vote for president separately

I never vote a straight ticket, but we were not specifically told. It is common knowledge among those who follow politics here in NC that you must vote for president separately, but for those who just come out to vote once every four years, who knows if they knew. :shrug:

[zimba]

12. In Illinois a straigtht ticket vote kicked the

presidential vote to Badnarik from Kerry. So its not just whatever the default is set at.

[ElaineinIN]

13. Indiana--Sort of....

In at least 3 counties straight Dem party votes were counted as Libertarian. They actually caught it and it changed the results of some local elections, and were enought to cause a recound in IN-9 where my US rep, Baron Hill , incumbent Dem, lost to a fundie by about 1400 vote :(

[NVMojo]

17. someone should peek at Nevada's election with Reid and Kerry ...

interesting ....

[seabeyond]

20. texas and new mexico

started hearing it the first day of early voting and clear thru out election day. never did get it fixed from what i heard.

[leftchick]

21. NC... Bigtime!

touchscreens in every flavour did it! :(

[Kazak]

23. What the hell is that?

I know it happened in Texas.