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What happens if a Senator objects on January 6?

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MikeG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 04:58 PM
Original message
What happens if a Senator objects on January 6?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:02 PM
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neweurope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. What happens? His plane will get into some really bad weather of course.
Otherwise business as usual?
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
19. Or an envelope with anthrax?
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Options Remain Donating Member (475 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. the proverbial Shyte hits the fan
the MSM starts screaming about us trying to steal the election
hostility between the sides cranks to the ceiling - hopefully we see people in the streets peacefully and no violence but im not very optimistic at this point.
congress votes bush into office along purely partisian lines with likely theatrics.
the DLC buckles under the pressure and settle quietly.


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Streetdoc270 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. from house.gov
Objecting to the Counting of One or More Electoral Votes. 3 U.S.C. §15 includes a procedure for making and acting on objections to the counting of one or more of the electoral votes from a state or the District of Columbia. When the certificate or equivalent paper from each state (or the District of Columbia) is read, "the President of the Senate shall call for objections, if any." Any such objection must be presented in writing and must be signed by at least one Senator and one Representative. The objection "shall state clearly and concisely, and without argument, the ground thereof...." When an objection is received, each house is to meet and consider it separately. The statute states that "o votes or papers from any other State shall be acted upon until the objections previously made to the votes or papers from any State shall have been finally disposed of." However, in 1873, before enactment of the law now in force, the joint session agreed, without objection and for reasons of convenience, to entertain objections with regard to two or more states before the two houses met separately to consider any of them.

Disposing of Objections. The joint session does not act on any objections that are made. Instead, the joint session is suspended while each house meets separately to debate the objection and vote whether, based on the objection, to count the vote or votes in question. Both houses must vote separately to agree to the objection. (This is the form in which the question was put in 1969; Deschler's Precedents, v. 3, Ch. 10, §3.6.) Otherwise, the objection falls and the vote or votes are counted. (3 U.S.C. §15, provides that "the two Houses concurrently may reject the vote or votes ....) These procedures have been invoked once since enactment of the 1887 law. In 1969, a Representative and a Senator objected in writing to counting the vote of an elector from North Carolina who had cast his vote for George Wallace and Curtis LeMay. Both houses, meeting and voting separately, rejected the objection, so when the joint session resumed, the challenged electoral vote was counted as cast. (This episode is discussed in Deschler's Precedents, v. 3, Ch. 10, §3.6.) In that instance the elector whose vote was challenged was from a state that did not by law "bind" its electors to vote only for the candidates to whom they are pledged. The instance of an elector voting for a different candidate (the socalled "faithless elector"), from a state which does, in fact, bind by law the elector to vote for the candidate to whom listed or pledged (see Ray v. Blair, 343 U.S. 214 (1952) in which the Court upheld the permissibility of such state limitations but did not address their enforceability), has not as yet been expressly addressed by the Congress or the courts.

Procedures for Considering Objections. 3 U.S.C. §17 lays out procedures for each house to follow in debating and voting on an objection. (As these procedures affect either house, however, they presumably are rule-making provisions of law which that house can decide unilaterally to alter.) These procedures limit debate on the objection to not more than two hours, during which each member may speak only once and for not more than five minutes. Then "it shall be the duty of the presiding officer of each House to put the main question without further debate." Under this provision, the presiding officer in each house held in 1969 that a motion to table the objection was not in order (Deschler's Precedents, v. 3, Ch. 10, §3.7). On the other hand, the Senate agreed, by unanimous consent, during the same proceeding to a different way in which the time for debate was to be controlled and allocated (Deschler's Precedents , v. 3, Ch. 10, §3.8).

Basis for Objections. The general grounds for an objection to the counting of an electoral vote or votes would appear from the federal statute and from historical sources to be that such vote was not "regularly given" by an elector, and/or that the elector was not "lawfully certified" according to state statutory procedures. The statutory provision first states in the negative that "no electoral vote ... regularly given by electors whose appointment has been lawfully certified ... from which but one return has been received shall be rejected" (3 U.S.C. § 15), and then reiterates for clarity (see Conference Report on 1887 legislation, 18 Congressional Record 668, 49th Cong., 2d Sess., January 14, 1887) that both houses concurrently may reject a vote when not "so regularly given" by electors "so certified." 3 U.S.C. § 15. It should be noted that the word "lawfully" was expressly inserted by the House in the Senate legislation (S. 9, 49th Cong.) before the word "certified" ( Conference Report, supra, 18 Congressional Record at 668). Such addition arguably provides an indication that Congress thought it might, as a grounds for an objection, question and look into the lawfulness of the certification under state law. While the first objection of "regularly given" may, in practice, subsume the latter (as a vote may arguably be other than "regularly given" if it were given by one who was not "lawfully certified"), the two objections are not necessarily the same. In the case of the socalled "faithless elector" in 1969, described above, the elector was apparently "lawfully certified" by the state, but the objection raised was that the vote was not "regularly given" by such elector.



http://www.house.gov/cha/electoralcollege/electoralcollege.html
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. If only one house upholds the objection
and the other votes it down, what happens.
We have a better chance of winning (by shear numbers) in the Senate.

Wiley
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. Congress will vote down the challenge
but then the challenge lays the legal groundwork for much-needed further investigation, even though it doesn't change who's president.
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gdub Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. Agree with cocoa
The challenge gets rejected by a majority of both houses. The fact of the challenge is significant in the media and opens the door to the media providing limited further support to whatever grass roots level legal efforts are still alive in Ohio.
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bones_7672 Donating Member (558 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. Nothing much. Bush is sworn in, Congress goes 'back to business' nt
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CraZdem4life Donating Member (62 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. and we all get another 4 years in hell....n/t
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Not a Sheep Donating Member (199 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
8. Not much. Some media coverage and then back to Britney or Paris /eom
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-30-04 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
11. kick
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Malikshah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
12. It cements in place the second "*" next to the boyrulers' name
It is worth the effort to have the protest recorded. Anything else is gravy.

Yeah--it will cause heartache in the land--but there's not enough heartache at this point, IMHO.

The fact that the vast majority of the US populace is going about their business while an illegal war is being waged, while our economy is on the brink, while we are no longer being governed, but rather ruled--these things need to be brought home to the average citizen.

Shame on them for being compliant. Ignorance is not an excuse.
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
13. Why can't Edwards object? He is still a Senator. eom
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DieboldMustDie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. I believe Edwards will be leaving office January 4.
:shrug:
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Jersey Devil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
14. Objecting Sen gets tin foil hat & Dems get jeers from the peanut gallery
The minority Dems in the House and Senate will not be able to issue subpoenoes, hold hearings, ask questions and do all the things necessary for a proper investigation, making the Senator who objects without any hard proof of fraud look like a moron who will probably be presented with a tinfoil hat by the Republicans.

Some Dems (hell, probably most Dems) will wind up voting for Bush just so they won't look like bad sports and obstructionists, thereby giving the kind of legitimacy to the election that it presently does not have at least for about 20% of the voting public.

Sure, keep investigating, get citizen recounts, propose legislation for paper trails for all voting, etc., etc., etc. Next time around be ready for voter suppression, demand more machines in urban areas, do everything that needs to be done.

But for Chrissakes, an objection without proof is going to make the Dems look like they think Bush was on the grassy knoll.
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wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
15. All democratic senators then join him
All democratic senators stand up in unison to make a point about black box voting and serious voting irregularities, forcing congress discussion.

Over the course of a 2 hour debate, it becomes clear that all democrats and some republicans in both houses have concerns over lying to the American people, over Lincoln's statement that a well informed public is the basis of democracy, over voter supression, over Ohio prima facie fraud, over Blackwell's arrogance and cowboy approach to transparent elections, over Triad-Diebold-ES&S,over unexplainable election results in Florida, New Mexico, New York, and Ohio. More than a few also mention Medicare, Iraq, Chalabi, Abu Ghraib, the 40 million dollar inaugural, the deficit, and My Pet Goat.

After two hours, a vote is taken in which Senator McCain casts the tie-breaking vote to replace the electoral vote with congress's vote...for John Kerry.

This administration's abuse of the public trust, of congress, of the truth, of morality, of the rest of the world, of the environment, of the new deal, and of our sense of all that is good comes to an end.

At least in my mind for the next 7 days, that's what happens.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. Great vision, keep up those thoughts.
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Corey_Baker08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 01:20 AM
Response to Original message
16. What Do we Have to Lose?
What is it that we really lose if a Sen. objects on Jan 6? Not, Congress, or the House and definately not the Presidency. The way I look at it is we have everything to gain and little to lose. The worst thats gonna happen is were gonna lose respect by who, republicans. Why should we care if the repugs like us or not. At least we ill be setting an example for Republicans to come that there fraudualnt lections will not go unnoticed.

C'Mon PPL have some faith in your party and trust that the decisons they make are the right ones. In 2000 all the Dems bitched cause we couldnt find a Sen. to object, now we have an actual shot at getting one this time around and some of the dems are complaining about that to.

Lets get out of this same routine where we pat ourselves on the back and say better luck next time and lets show some aggression to let the Republicans know where not gonna tolerate their screwing us.

Happy New Year
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
18. This will be the Re-uglicans explanation for the Democrats midterm losses!
2006: Re-uglican propaganda machine already preparing the talking points.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-31-04 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. That's fine. We need to make 2006 the final deadline for electoral
reform. This won't carry the day but it will add legitimacy to the general cause. And answer this: The OH voter suppression was a racist action, without any doubt. Once again, blacks get screwed in a Presidential election. If the Dems sit this one out (as in 2000) on their fat, complacent asses, who will vote for them in 2006.

I'm sure the Repukes will try to use this but remember, 2006 will encompass a failure in Iraq, at best a stagnant economy, and the Bush attempt to screw social security. Sometimes doing the right thing is the right thing. Cheers.
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