A scary message

[Time for change]

I received this e-mail from someone I recently met on this forum. S/he does not want to be identified. I have no way to vouch for the validity of the content of this message, as I have no firsthand knowledge of any of it, but I thought it would be worth sharing, and the sender agrees with that:

So there's more to the story than Ohio. GA has had diebold 100% electronicsince 2002, where we witnessed an almost unbelievable reversal from dem. to repub. I am faxing and receiving data that I myself cannot believe and I've been a believer in fraud for over a year. Some of it is ignorance andplain out laziness.... but other parts are BLATANT, arrogant and really in a sense, criminal malicious intent to defraud the public.some great DRE/Diebold historical data, if you want to review it, resides in large part on this site...
http://www.countthevote.org/ (down arrow under the Millions of GA voters disenfranchised) part... and read the links.. it goes on for days.

The way our group knows we have something, is we get slashed tires on weekly basis (died down from last year when it was death threats, brake lines cut and housefires). WE ARE CHALLENGING A MACHINE MUCH LARGER THAN BUSH. We have come up against DLC plants to don't think democrats are automatically your friend... a better breakdown is Largebiz beholding versus not... regardless of party...
This includes democrats, repubs, many folks you would not guess.. money speaks louder than words.I'd follow the money (payoff trail) if I were you. We have a canary by the way.....

Please consider this one simple fact. The folks in ohio are getting nowhere fast.. they spent their bullets too early and had not enough to make a large, complete and 'COMPREHENSIVELY UNCONTESTABLE'argument.. we have that and more and have 2-3 years of data to backup claims...

If we could produce a computer file that defaults to bush (and the previous 14% undervote then swung to bush) for all diebold machines across the US, would that be a smoking gun to you? Should we go for Bush removal or the larger goal of shutting down all DRE companies? If you had to choose which would you choose?
I'm curious? This is my evening's quandry.. cause the data is flowing in and I don't knowwhat to do with it...

[theycanbiteme]

1. Sorry to say, but I think we're wasting our time

NOTHING will get accomplished and the reason that in the Ukraine
"something" was done was because Yushenko is a pro-west puppet backed
by the current occupiers of the WH.

[candice]

2. Rob.Georgia folder

What ever happened to the rob.georgia folder that Bev Harris supposedly found on the Diebold web site? Supposedly, patches were applied before the 2002 election (the year Georgia went blackbox). Clelland and the Dem governor were projected to win according to the exit polls, but did not. Zogby shut down to try to figure out why they were so wrong.

[Blue in the face]

5. I believe nothing of what Bev Harris says

But my answer is shut them all down. Dems, Reps, anyone who cheated. Fuck em all, arrest them for treason and make this country a true Democracy for once.

[AntiFascist]

43. I'm all for that as well....

I'll be sending a very simple message to Sen. Boxer: unless there is a senator standing up with Rep. Conyers to challenge the election fraud, I will be throwing all of my effort behind the secession movement. "America" may need to achieve its independence yet once again. I really don't care if the DLC calls this "over the top."

[xultar]

10. Well when I steal an election, I'm gonna name the folder rob.election

and make sure its on a public server that way no one will think to look in it.

[mordarlar]

11. Like the torture memos?

[xultar]

18. I think that is a little different....for some stupid reason they didn't

think that the torture was they was doing was wrong. Plus they had Gonzales memos and Rummy with Cheney backing them up.

The jerk offs who stole the election knew that was wrong.

[dogindia]

24. yes like torture

put everything right out front then control all government, law enforcement, judges and media.

[ClintCooper2003]

Any link to the exit polls? Please?? :) n/t

[Kelvin Mace]

59. The folder existed and contained

a number of patches to the OS. one was a video patch if I recall correctly.

Georgia is completely in the thrall of Diebold thanks to Cathy Cox who shills for them without question.

You could show Cathy Cox a signed confession and it wouldn't interest her in the slightest.

David Allen
www.thoughtcrimes.org

[StephanieMarie]

71. I live in Georgia

Tell me what I can do. I delivered "truth about black box voting" by hand to my county elections officer. I also write dozens of letters to the editor. What else can I do?

[xultar]

3. We have come up against DLC plants - I smell smoke...must be FLAMEBAIT

I'm a DLC PLANT - a rose bush...hybrid tea no less

[troubleinwinter]

4. Pretty hard to make any judgement on the validity of this at all,

since the person will not even come out under his/her DU name and post it.

Sounds quite vague and sensational.

[Time for change]

13. Maybe this person will come forward

S/he seems rather undecided to me.

[nashville_brook]

6. i've thought the 2002 GA race was vital from the start, AND

it's my opinion that we MUST go for the whole enchilada b/c all the pieces go together. what you have here in your post is tasty bits that lay open the machinery of the whole thing --- hmmmm

reminds me of those rumors flying around about people in Kerry's camp being complicit in the fraud.

[Not a Sheep]

7. Sounds like BS....(more)

So you met this person recently on the forum and for some reason they have trusted you with their identity but won't come forward to us with their identitiy and and the info that they have?

And these lines, "The way our group knows we have something, is we get slashed tires on weekly basis (died down from last year when it was death threats, brake lines cut and housefires)" sound a little wacky to me. Multiple death threats and house fires? Slashed tires on a weekly basis?

The person seems to think they have a smoking gun that could remove Bush from office and their in a "quandry".

I hope I'm wrong but sorry, but this sounds like a load of BS to me. Be careful you're not being taken for a ride.

[redacted]

17. "Wacky," you say? But they may also be telling the truth.

So you're suggesting that someone who wants to protect his or her own safety by not releasing their identity must be "wacky," as you say, and therefore this nutcase can't be trusted?

Have you ever received a death threat? My wife has. It certainly made her much more cautious about revealing her identity. But she's far from crazy. And her caution about her identity doesn't make her any less credible.

Sounds to me like the Karl Rove trick of labeling threatening individuals as insane, child molesters, etc. before anyone has a chance to test the validity of what they're communicating. I think folks posting here at DU deserve more courtesy than that.

[Not a Sheep]

35. You've missed my point......(more)

I'm suggesting that the story taken in it's entirety doesn't make sense.

The person claims to have evidence they seem to believe is a smoking gun and could remove Bush from office. The person is protective of their identity on the Forum but from what they say the bad guys already know they have something. Afterall, they have their tires slashed on weekly basis, have received death threats, had brake lines cut and had multiple housefires. And somehow the worst of that occurred last year before the election. Huh? What did they have then that was so incriminating and why have they been setting on it this long?

They are so protective of their identity but reveal themselves to "Time for Change" who has 86 posts on this Forum and said they "met recently". Our mysterious person also says they are faxing data they can not believe. Well, no one will ever be able to intercept those faxes! If they have incriminating info, whoever wanted it would have taken it long ago. Why fool around with cut break lines, threats and fires.

The story makes no sense.

[DoYouEverWonder]

8. Why not go for

a two for one? Let it rip and see what happens.

Good luck.

[insane_cratic_gal]

9. Both are equally important

But for me Election reform on a national level removing all dre's and privatized companies who count votes Needs to happen! National testing labs. Etc.

For the structure and the integrity for both Reps, Dems, Green's Libs etc, for democracy itself. It will not happen without first removing these companies. Votes should not go to the highest Bidder. Be it a Democratic or a Rep. That is the difference. It's my opinion who ever gets elected by "fraud" should not sit on the free world's throne, Dem or Rep. I'd equally be pissed off at a Dem for committing the same act.

Would I like Bush$Co out of office. I would, very much so. But more important to me is restoring trust of all Americans in the electoral process.

[Higans]

58. We the people agree with that.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/121604Z.shtml

There are several important considerations you should be aware of with respect to this matter. First, this course of conduct would appear to violate several provisions of federal law, in addition to the constitutional guarantees of equal protection and due process. 42 U.S.C. §1973 provides for criminal penalties against any person who, in any election for federal office, "knowingly and willfully deprives, defrauds, or attempts to defraud the residents of a State of a fair and impartially conducted election process, by . . . the procurement, casting, or tabulation of ballots that are known by the person to be materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent under the laws of the State in which the election is held." 42 U.S.C. § 1974 also requires the retention and preservation, for a period of twenty-two months from the date of a federal election, of all voting records and papers and makes it a felony for any person to "willfully steal, destroy, conceal, mutilate, or alter" any such record. Further, any tampering with ballots and/or election machinery would violate the constitutional rights of all citizens to vote and have their votes properly counted, as guaranteed by the Equal Protection and Due Process Clauses of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

Second, the course of conduct would also appear to violate several provisions of Ohio law. No less than 4 provisions of the Ohio Revised Code make it a felony to tamper with or destroy election records or machines.1 Clearly, modifying election equipment in order to make sure that the hand count matches the machine count would appear to fall within these proscriptions.

Further more The Main Stream Media also with strong ties to the Republican Party refuses to cover issues like this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x195180

Where the Hackers themselves say it is too easy to manipulate the vote. Not only that, but the media covers up America's Protest Movement:

http://colorado.indymedia.org/feature/display/9777/index.php

[TexasChick]

12. I don't understand this:

This includes democrats, repubs, many folks you would not guess.. money speaks louder than words.I'd follow the money (payoff trail) if I were you. We have a canary by the way.....


How do we follow the money, i.e. the payoff trail, when we don't have this info ourselves? What does s/he mean 'We have a canary by the way.....'. Does that mean like a whistleblower or an infiltrator of some sort?


If s/he has all of this information coming in, why doesn't s/he share it with someone who has influence to help him/her, like Conyers or somebody like Olbermann? Of course, I'm not in his/her position, so I wouldn't know what to do myself, but there's got to be someone s/he can turn to help get this rolling.

[Fly by night]

20. I agree. If you have some real evidence, PM me

and I will put you in touch with at least three people who are in a position to use your information NOW. But if you're following DU, you have access to similar people. We're not disconnected activists here, so PM me and I'll be happy to get the ball rolling.

And as far as slashed tires, etc. goes, if that happened to you, join the club. These Republi-Nazis have pulled similar stunts here in Tennessee and throughout the country. BFD -- since when did fighting tyranny become an easy, blood-and-sweat free job? As my Arapaho friends say, if the path you are on is easy, you're on the wrong path.

[mycatforpresident]

25. A canary means

either someone who will die in the mineshaft, thereby indicating danger to the rest, or a whistleblower, I assume.

I wonder along with Texaschick about the dissemination of crucial information...if I had solid info to share that would potentially save democracy, I would share it and let the chips fall where they may.

[salin]

26. In this context I think it means the former

that someone is willing to take the risk and move forward (in the mine shaft). Of course in this case it could be a 2fer... a whistleblower ready to take the risk in the mineshaft...


to those not familiar this is an old mining reference - sending the canary in to see if there are toxic gases under ground or if it is "all clear".

[TexasChick]

27. Ahh, now that makes sense. Thank you, salin! And, thanks to

mycatforpresident too!

[mycatforpresident]

33. Welcome, although I suspect it's a moot point. n/t

[davidgmills]

37. Canaries are supposed to succumb to toxic gases before the miners

When a canary succombs, it is time to get out of the mine in a hurry.

[mordarlar]

29. I assumed it meant sing like a canary

[salin]

31. either would be good

as would infer information gets out there.

Still something funny about this whole scenario... talking about it via pm but not really suggesting action... just getting it out there to do... ??? Just a bit odd.

[mordarlar]

34. it is hard to know what to trust...

when you cannot see it with your own eyes. This is what got us here after all. Not much to do but trust your gut. My gut, believes that what is being claimed is EXTREMELY possible. I do not trust our leaders. : (

[mordarlar]

30. I want to point out ...

I want to point out one of the points the Reps make against Curtis is that he should have come forward sooner. Or told someone. Who knows what you do when you are in this situation. I am a nobody that knows nothing and i occasionally get freaked out by the sound of the tree banging on the house. It is real stuff. Three people who have written books about Bush all committed suicide? One with two gunshot wounds? Think of the odds. I blame nobody for hesitating to speak out. But i do offer that the louder you are the safer.

[TexasChick]

32. Exactly. That's what I was getting at. If I were in his/her situation,

I wouldn't know what to do either, but I would pass this info off because the more people know, the possiblity of you being better off.

[Time for change]

40. I don't know

I can't figure out how to use any of this information, but I posted it because I was hoping that someone else might. This person, it seems to me, is obviously distraught and scared.

[TexasChick]

52. Well, Time, my point would be that s/he is going to have to come forward

with this info before we can help him/her. I'm not raggin' on ya, just want you to know that none of us know how to help either, I guess. Just let him/her know that s/he will have to find someone to get this information out. Otherise, we just don't know.

[Time for change]

75. I think you're right

That's what I hope will happen

[mordarlar]

14. Blow on one of them, let them fall they will grab hold of the others....

and drag them down with them. But we HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE.

[shraby]

16. Whoever has the goods, it's a lot

safer to make it public than to keep it under wraps.

[luaptifer]

15. i can say nothing about the validity of the email

but there've been a number of post-911 phenomena that leave me, independently, with a possible explanation for the actions/inactions of leftie leadership that is consistent with the assertion of the email.

i presented the skeleton of this view on another thread here and then copied it to my blog.

intro to that idea:
---------
The collusion has been my fear for a long time
Edited on Fri Dec-24-04 01:36 AM by luaptifer

but first, i assume this is 'the PNAC' document to which you all are referring?

http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

and my nightmare has been that the complicity if not actual collusion we've seen comes, first, from the left wing of the republicrat party believing or realizing it has no choice. rebuilding america's defenses and the reality we've seen play out since it's publication shows the dems buying into the whole iraq scam. but why would they have done so easily what any degree of skepticism would have warranted against?

<snip>

->>>if you are interested->>>
http://beyondcomfortablynumb.blogspot.com/2004/12/collusion-has-been-my-fear-for-long.html

it'd seem to explain so many easy rollovers by 'our guys'.

[luaptifer]

23. oddly enough from Project for an Old American Century today

topline quote

“Our only political party has two right wings, one called Republican, the other Democratic. But Henry Adams figured all that out back in the 1890s. ‘We have a single system,’ he wrote, and ‘in that system the only question is the price at which the proletariat is to be bought and sold, the bread and circuses.’”

: Gore Vidal - The Decline and Fall of the American Empire

[luaptifer]

68. CORRECTION here, it was Bob Kerrey, not John Kerry

who swore the dems to secrecy about the 911 report.

And what did you do? Nothing, so far as we could see on the 9/11 Commission. Now, that's in the report. And we took an oath not to talk about it during the campaign, I think correctly so, to increase the capacity of that commission's report to be heard by the people's Congress....

an astute reader, massdelusion, pointed this out to me in response to my post on this thread http://beyondcomfortablynumb.blogspot.com/2004/12/collusion-has-been-my-fear-for-long.html#110452797869919206

so i'll update the site but have commented the correction in for the moment including a link to the original transcript for clarity
http://beyondcomfortablynumb.blogspot.com/2004/12/collusion-has-been-my-fear-for-long.html#110452870030476956

but wanted to be sure to correct it first, where it's most likely to be seen.

i propagated the error in quoting a friend's citation @dKos http://lawnorder.dailykos.com/comments/2004/11/9/0251/61572/100#100} and neglecting to note the subtle extra 'e'. this was so, at least partly, because i'd already grown weary of 'our guys' rolling over with respect to 911 and iraqscam.

party's the same, only the name has been changed to protect the innocent! i believe the crux of my speculation here, still applies.

my thanks to massdelusion, my apologies to everyone else.

[saracat]

19. Sounds like Bev Harris. Forget it.

[salin]

21. it rather does... except

she rarely focuses on Georgia

[troubleinwinter]

28. Too funny... I thought the same thing....

Anyway, I'd forget the whole thing until the supposed "author" steps forward... it all sounds kinda fishy that the person is "getting data" and doesn't know what to do with it??!! :eyes:

[Carolab]

22. I don't see why it's a choice

if you prove there was fraud why can it not accomplish both removing Bush and DRE companies from the mix? Since the fraud was "easy" to accomplish and hide, the machines need to go, since Bush was involved, Bush needs to go. Simple.

[spooked911]

36. What on earth are you talking about???????

If you have clear evidence of fraud, show it to us. Please!!!!!!!!!

[Time for change]

42. I have no evidence at all

Read the post again. I am communicating with a person who sent me the e-mail that I copied in the post. That is all I know. She is afraid to identify him/herself, and I promised I wouldn't identify him/her. But S/he is communicating with me, and if I get any information that I think may be useful I'll share it.

[Lerkfish]

72. the choice is clear: protect our election process...that's bigger than

this or any election, since if we allow the process to be shanghaied, things will only get worse the longer it goes on. Bush will eventually die, but fraudulent elections, unchecked, will ensure a fascist state for decades to come.

However, I do not understand why its either/or.
If you can prove duplicity on the part of Diebold, its a simple connect the dots to Bush.
Do Diebold first, then get Bush.

either way, though, like I said, a threat to our democracy by fraud is a far greater danger than one, admittedly very dangerous, president.

I should note, though, that I am a bit skeptical of either the originator of this thread, or the person they spoke with. I cannot fathom ANYONE having evidence of fraud and then withholding it, unless they were also complicit in the fraud or the coverup of the fraud in some way. Anyone else would consider it their patriotic duty to bring the evidence forward.

Not to do so is, in my opinion, treason.

[spooked911]

73. Sorry--I didn't realize the whole post was quoting the e-mail.

It makes sense now.

[genieroze]

38. Send it anon to Congressman Conyers. Sen Kerry, Jackson etc.eom

[troubleinwinter]

41. "anon"????? That would be pretty stupid and pointless.

[mordarlar]

47. Not if the info can stand on it's own...

But i personally would send it multiple places at once. A lot of places really. So it could not be squashed. This or i would offer it to ; ) a brave news type anonymously. They are too visible to be harmed.

[AmerDem]

39. you take an e-mail like this seriously?

First off, you admit you have no idea if the person is a he or she. Hell, if you don't have that basic information how do you know what was written isn't from a fiction novel wanta-be? Establish basic info first and build from there, only then could a post like this be taken with a grain of salt.

[mordarlar]

48. to some election fraud still seems like fantasy... Just a thought.

[AmerDem]

50. not this person

your point being?

[mordarlar]

51. I'm sorry was to wrong post. : '

[vlad]

44. count...I have been trying to email you ..

I don't have enough posts to email you personally yet.. I am a pa progressive.. but that hardly matters w/ what I think you're talking about... Um, if I can send you some information.. been "researching" some things for a long time.. GA is in there, some before the 200 election, might be some of the same stuff you have.. might be pieces missing.. I can't say but I'd like to get them to someone directly involved in that... If I can help, and its applicable, I'll send you what I've got...let me know, ok? I am new here, but I am dedicated as hell to bring this to anyone that "needs" it and knows where it needs to go.
Ps. I do not work for any of those companies.
Thanks,
Lore

[Time for change]

45. You can e-mail me

at [e-mail] if you have something useful that needs to be posted but you can't post it. Thanks vlad.

[vlad]

56. Thanks..

The memos I have I could post, it's just alot of them that have to be put in order, and might be useful to that person that has Diebold and other companies' information. If I post it public, I don't want to lose access to them... if they're needed for compiling...I'd send them off so they could copy and sift through them.. and then post them here... and we could all sift through.. some were from 1999 as well.. unless these are already known by that poster to Count...
I'll send some to you though and you can see what I mean...ok? Give me a litle time to get a few to you(couple hours)... Do you want them as attachments? pasted? let me know, and thanks.

[Time for change]

74. Thank you

Send them any way you can.

[Vinnie From Indy]

46. This Posting Is A Pile of Dung

It reminds one of the Nigerian scam letters. Posting it here is a very transparent attempt to distract. Nice try!

[ClintCooper2003]

49. Removal of Bush is the first priority, then lock 'em all up.

When it comes to fraud, I have no political party at all. Anyone found guilty of fraud should have their life ruined.

[bleever]

53. Get it into the hands of Conyers, and Cleland as well.

Make it public for your own safety. Do it now.

That's my advice for her/him.

[ClintCooper2003]

54. CHECK OUT THIS LINK! I guess CNN knows how bad it really is.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2002/data/epolls/states/GA/S/01/epolls.html

"CNN.com is committed to bringing you full exit poll results when available. However, Due to problems with exit polls from Voter News Service (VNS), no exit poll data is available for the 2002 elections."

[mattclearing]

55. Yeah, they cancelled the exit polls shortly after the mid-term returns...

...started coming in, because it was obvious that they didn't match. As always, they believed the exits were wrong.

:eyes:

[ClintCooper2003]

57. I believe this was a test to see how much discrepancy the public was...

willing to swallow. A whole lot, I guess.

[mattclearing]

62. People don't necessarily swallow it, but what are they supposed to do?

I remember it happening. I was having gin and tonics with a co-worker, and they announced the the exit poll data was flawed and would not be used. I laughed and said what-the-fuck-ever.

Welcome to the United States of Who Cares What You Think!

[NoPasaran]

60. A not so scary statement

I am posting this as a favor for someone who is not a member of this board.

As the co-founder of CountTheVote.org, I resent having my web site associated with such tripe and obvious hyperbolic BS.

CountTheVote IS involved in some investigations in Georgia, but none of our work has neared the level of "smoking guns" or "canaries" or anything closely related.

We are working hard to prove our case and make a difference in Georgia. But this poster is not associated in any way with our organization or our research.

CountTheVote.org does not endorse this message in any way and disavows any relationship to it.

Roxanne Jekot
Co-Founder
CountTheVote.org

[mattclearing]

63. Well, there you have it.

eom

[salin]

76. Just the message I was looking for

Rox was always careful to differentiate between what was sound speculation, what was sound information and what was erroneous - or even premature speculation (eg facts just didn't support). If anyone reads this message and is in contact with her, please tell her hello and to keep up the important and good work.

[crispini]

61. If you're ready, blow the lid off.

All of the above. Give it to as many people as you trust: Will Pitt, Conyers, Olbermann, Arnebeck, Fitrakis, etc.

[Firespirit]

64. Tell your contact to send it to someone involved.

If this is for real--and I have an open mind, but I'm not gullible; I need more than this to be convinced--if it's for real, then tell your contact to get in touch immediately with Conyers, Arnebeck, and the Green Party recount team, and open it all up.

Like it or not, "the folks in Ohio" are the ones with the forum now. Anything that is done will be done by them. If your contact has real data of the sort that you've hinted at, it needs to get into their hands immediately for verification. I assume that if your friend is legit, s/he will be more interested in doing the right and patriotic thing than getting personal glory out of it. Possibly BOTH of the goals could come to pass.

[HeyManThatsCool]

65. I think its over the top

If this WERE true I think that the person who wrote it would probably be enjoying a DFP over at the Guantanomo Retreat. If they have had death threats, house fires & tire slashings it would seem they are being monitored... And therefore any email they sent would be monitored.

It's very Tom Clancy or John Grisham-esque.

[AntiFascist]

69. Funny, 9/11 also seems very Tom Clancy nt

[madfloridian]

66. From a co-founder of the site mentioned.....observe caution here.

I see this was posted above in the thread, and it is being ignored. At the request of a co-founder, I am again posting this. She does not have posting privileges.

QUOTE..."As the co-founder of CountTheVote.org, I resent having my web site associated with such tripe and obvious hyperbolic BS.

CountTheVote IS involved in some investigations in Georgia, but none of our work has neared the level of "smoking guns" or "canaries" or anything closely related.

We are working hard to prove our case and make a difference in Georgia. But this poster is not associated in any way with our organization or our research.

CountTheVote.org does not endorse this message in any way and disavows any relationship to it."

Roxanne Jekot
Co-Founder
CountTheVote.org

[HeyManThatsCool]

67. Yeah

It was too good to be true.
Anyone who had that kind of serious info would have
been smart enough to send it to every newspaper, every news organization, every reporter, every Senator etc etc etc.
It would have been everywhere

[MileHiStealth]

70. So the best defense is ...

dump the info all over the web... in
chatrooms , on message boards, etc ...