If 'Liberal standard bearers" don't stand up for Democracy on Jan. 6th ...

[Eye_on_prize]

it lends considerable credence to claims made on another string that Dems are 'in on it' themselves. duh?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x216682

No US Senator with an ounce of integrity could stand down on Jan 6th, and publicly just say no to democracy, unless they have something to hide themselves. I don't much give a flying f*ck anymore about people's party affiliation (no disrespect to DU), I care about having a real democracy.

Bernie Sanders won't stand up? why Bernie, pray tell? Ted Kennedy won't stand up? Why Teddy, why? Kerry takes a vacation on the whole Jan. 6th day-to-stand-up-for-democracy? Why John, in the name of all that is sacred and beautiful and true, why are 'the best and brightest' crumpling before our eyes into paper lapdogs for a fascist criminal take -over of our country?

The race thing is staggering too, a shameful chapter in Democrats history, Conyers (black) wages lonely uphill struggle just to find out WTF really happened in OH and finds damning evidence aplenty. so takes his stand with integrity, along with Jesse Jackson Jr. (black) and now with Maxine Waters (also black) who has recently join Conyers in the challenge. Subtext: the Black Congressional Caucus is ALL we have left in DC who believe in democracy. It couldn't be plainer.

Meanwhile, WHERE Oh WHERE are brothers Kerry, Sanders and Kennedy? Our lilly white brethren are all AWOL to a man. This is ugly beyond belief. I will NEVER give a penny or a minute of volunteer time, or a vote for any of these scoundrels pretentions to being 'the people's party'. what a disgusting display of selfishness and cowardice. what a sad sad day for democracy. I weep. The sadness is back.

God/Goddess bless these big wise hearts, that beat in Conyers, Jacksons and Waters et. al ... may they stand in all their/our truth with all the honor and power of the "I have a dream" variety, and may it bring down this whole freekin house of cards ... down, w-a-a-y down..to raw realities of real people who care deeply about things like voting, and having the votes counted fairly.

[cyberpj]

1. AMEN!

And perhaps Obama could take the torch up with them?

Too much to ask?

[Eye_on_prize]

2. will he be sworn in by Jan 6th. i wasn't sure about this. n/t

[cyberpj]

4. Hmmm.... He's listed as one of Conyers' possibles

so I assumed he could do it.

But you make an interesting point.

[Eye_on_prize]

8. great to here that. Would be quite an initiation for him. an Obama shot

across the bow as his first piece of business. i like it.

[Pam-Moby]

9. If they fail us again on Jan 6th

I will never give money or volunteer to help any democratic. I will give my donations to Jesse or Sharpten, support my congressman Conyers. The dem senators have been asked repeatedly. My husband called Levin and Stabenow this morning. He left a message on both of their voice mail asking what their intent was on the issue of Jan 6th standing for Conyers. I bet he does not even get a call back, just like the many emails that we have sent them this past month.

[LiberalEsto]

14. The House is sworn in on the 4th

but I don't know about the Senate

[Freddie Stubbs]

16. He will be sworn in on the 4th

[Absolute Truth]

11. No, not at all.

To ask an up-and-coming star of the party to wave the banner for a futile cause and cast his lot with a group that looks for all the world like The Tin Foil Hat Brigade?

That's eminently reasonable!

You might want to step back and ask why it's only the far, far left fringe element of congress (Maxine Watters and John Conyers? PLEASE??) who are interested in perpetuating this sort of nonsense.

Back to reality folks. There are real, winnable battles to fight against W. But we can't do it if we insist on tilting at windmills.

[cyberpj]

12. What if he already believes there was fraud

What if he already believes there will be evidence?

What if he were to ESTABLISH his career on helping us expose this to the rest of the country?


Unfortunately I know.......

they'd just have him killed.

It's happened way too many times.

[Eye_on_prize]

15. Exit polls don't lie in Ukraine, or here. just leaked. if we don't pull

this off Jan 6th, there's nothing left but pretenses of democracy and wishdreams of some "winnable battle" in the distant future... Just which winnable battles do you refer to that you are waging so effectively?

[Absolute Truth]

20. I said there are battles we NEED to fight.

And this sort of silliness that, I repeat, IS NOT GOING TO GO ANYWHERE, is a waste of resources that can be spent on:

-Getting the deficit down;
-Making sure social security is protected;
-Keeping good jobs in the US rather than letting them go overseas;
-Keeping abortion safe and legal;
-Making sure public education is fully funded and teachers are held accountable;

These are things where we CAN have an impact. But focusing on a Quixotic quest like this Ohio nonsense will only have a two-pronged negative impact:

1) It will divert our time and resourses from more winnable battles; and

2) It will diminish our credibility when we fight W in other venues.

There's another thing, too. We had a valid case in 2000. If we keep this sort of thing up, and get the reputation of sore-losers (that they TRIED to tag us with last time), the great unwashed who don't follow this stuff closely will just assume our claims in 2000 were bogus too. So we need to make sure that great injustice is kept in the proper historical context as well.

[Eye_on_prize]

21. so let me get this straight. 2000 was *really* rigged, but 2004 WASN"T??

what galaxy do you live in? We have WAY more proof of more (not less) fraud this time than we did in 2000, precisely because 2000 woke a lot of us up to that it was going to happen so we were ready for it. Now we HAVE the evidence, the congressional momentum, the lawsuits, the affidavits, and freshly leaked exit poll data ... so now we're supposed to 'go along and get along' ... to WHAT pray tell .

Conyers et. al. challenging this election IS THE mother of all winnable battles. All these 'winnable' battles you refer to depend on having VOTES, votes in the House and Senate, based on getting elected by votes in the precincts that are really counted or the whole thing is a monumental waste of time. The specter of Democrat lapdogs endlessly pretending to be fighting 'winnable' battles over crumbs that fall off the table does not inspire me nearly as much as you apparently.

[delphine]

17. You don't need a tin foil hat to know that thousands of folks

showed up on 11/2 to find 3-11 hour waits in the rain and in stuffy gyms, to find their names not on the list or to be given incorrect information about their precincts, send on wild goose chases, told to get back in the line in order to submit a provisional ballot that would ultimately be thrown out because the instructions and documentation were incomplete.

It is not conjecture that thousands of people tried to vote but were unable to because the number of machines did not logistically allow for all registered voters to vote. Everyone gets 5 minutes to vote - 12 people per hour, 120 people if the polls are open 10 hours. Two machines for 1000 people means 25% of them can vote. That's the kind of turnout we saw.

If we can't find someone to speak out against that then we really are lost. Tutu sees apartheid here. Maybe he's not wrong.

Jesse Jackson cried when he heard these stories. They aren't about computers and code and nefarious secret manipulations. They are stories of individual human beings who wanted to vote for their president and were not able to. That add up to thousands of votes that were lost and thousands of disillusioned Americans.

There is no excuse.

[Webster Green]

22. What a load of crap!

There are no battles to be won once we give up our right to vote.

Bush controls everything and doesn't compromise. Rolling over on the election fraud will only embolden him.

[genieroze]

3. It tells me that the most people with guts in this party are black. eom

[Eye_on_prize]

6. ..and all the self-excusing 'reasons' for bailing on democracy...

timing..oh no, just not the right time yet? BS...this IS precisely the time. Jan 6th or never baby. or if i do i'll be ruined politicially, or if i do i'll be Wellstoned. well all these arguements apply to those standing with Conyers (not to mention Conyers himself). i can't comprehend how ugly this is. it's just beyond belief.

[cyberpj]

7. And used to fighting those who throw everything in their paths

constant questioning and demonstrating is a good lesson from history that we would do well to remember.


black leaders are unfortunately more experienced here.


will it ever change?

[New Earth]

10. i've been thinking about this for a few weeks

and it is true. it seems that black/African American potlicians and leaders are the only ones with enough balls to stand up for inequality and injustice. and this time, regarding this election, it isn't just about Black voters being suppressed, it's about an attempt to fool the entire country.

And Conyers, Waters, Jackson, etc aren't going to sit by and watch it happen without doing something about it. I have so much respect for our black leaders - they know more than anyone else what it means to stand up for civil rights, voting rights, and the rights of all. Not only that, but leaders like Sheila Jackson Lee and Rev. Jesse Jackson, and Rev. Bill Moss - are some of the most eloquent, powerful, emotional speakers I have ever heard. It makes me so angry to notice how black leaders or politicians are not taken seriously by the media. the media and 'the right' try to call them 'whiners', but i call them patriots who stand up for the rights of all humans, no matter what color, no matter what race or religion - people who have the guts and DIGNITY to stand up for democracy when no one else will.


/rant

[Eye_on_prize]

18. thanx for your thoughts Faye . i usually resonate with your posts

it's a little creepy how few are standing in such an important hour. but guess this is part of being reality-based huh. the risk of having to stand alone.

[genieroze]

23. I'm surprised the repukes don't show their true colors and use the

"N" word on them. I guess they don't want to upset Rice or Powell. The Republican Party is not longer the party of Lincoln. It's the party of Reich Wing Neocons. There are black a-holes, just like there are black heroes. Anyone ever notice that most republicans no matter what color are jerks. It used to be the dems that were the racists.

[spooked911]

5. Amen again

If no one stands on the 6th, it will be the last straw for me and the Dems

[specimenfred1984]

13. Well Said, Welcome to Fascism

There are at least 2 classes of people in the country and me and you are NOT in the same class as Kennedy, Kerry, etc...

They won't stand up for what is right in our minds because they are a different class: it's pure fascism.

This has been building since election 2000 was stolen and nothing was done about it. It's cemented now, we are a fascist country. Until dems, indys, liberatarians, centrists, gop-converts etc... accept what's really happened, it will not change.

And, nothing ever changes in America until people die. Even on a local level, bridges and stoplights and similar things are never built until some huge accident occurs. We've got 4 years of hardcore war coming, and 1000s to 100,000s will die.

My guess is there will be another "terrorist attack" to keep the fascist ball rolling. This attack will be blamed on some M.E. country to keep Bush/Torture Inc. in business and power for years. Just try and guess how me and you will be received by other Americans when we suggest not attacking a country that supposedly attacked us?

[Eye_on_prize]

19. The class thing ya. The race thing tho with the 'party of the people' is

so Blatent and ugly. Classism is one thing, but how can all these rich white guys stand down and watch Black Caucus take the heat and risk their very lives to bring the truth forward, again, and still sleep nights? This is beyond comprehension to me. These guys must all be on drugs or something just to sleep.

I admit to being a little slow about fascism on the rise in US. It was this stolen election that has opened my eyes all too widely for my own comfort sometime. But I've vowed to keep looking anyway, to be uncomfortable in order to help save democracy.