Well, here's what I learned today....

[femme.democratique]

Kerry is DEAD to me. I always said he had until the 6th to prove himself, and he has. He has proven himself an unworthy leader, the WORST kind of coward, and a hypocrite. I will make it my mission to make sure he NEVER gets past the primaries in '08 should he actually have the gall to run again. He can go to Iraq all he wants, doesn't mean shit when he won't uphold the core principles of our democracy. I'm actually ashamed to have believed in him. I feel sorry for his wife and children as he certainly doesn't set a good example. Yeah, he did some good things in the past, but I think he has shown his true colors today.

I hate to say it, but I now believe he never really wanted this with any passion. I think there was definitely some shady business going on with him around election day. Flame away, but if you do, know that you're tying your hopes to a ship that sailed on 11/3 and doesn't give a shit if you're drowning!

We need to keep going, Kerry or no Kerry. We need to continue the massive communication efforts to our representatives, we need to stay on this like a dog with a bone. What I'd like to see is some sort of citizens commission that meets with House and Senate on a monthly basis to work through how elections should be reformed and to make sure progress is being made. I think hard-core citizen involvement in this is crucial to this ever getting done. We need to shift to a paradigm of REAL citizen involvement in the legislative process and show them we mean business!

[seito]

1. Sorry, you lost me in your opening sentence n/t

[femme.democratique]

2. Well, sorry we can't all agree, but I've had it. eom

[pbartch]

62. DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU ........on your way out.

[Blue_In_AK]

3. Ditto, Seito ...

[Casablanca]

57. She's right - Kerry IS politically dead. nt

[joeunderdog]

60. Better to commit political suicide (saying the F-Word)

than to live a plitical LIE.

Kerry lives...a lie.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bill of Rights]

5. I, too, will fight

against his nomination in 2008, if he chooses to run.

[LittleClarkie]

6. Great. Join the Smear vets. I'm sure that will be their mission too.

May you be oh so happy together.

I, on the other hand, am in this for the long haul. There is still a Congress 109 to watch, actions to make , people to call, local candidates to support, miles to go before I sleep. I wouldn't piss in our collective Wheaties if I were you. We need all dem Dems.

If Kerry has an action or two in the mix, I will be there, supporting it. A good idea is a good idea, no matter where it comes from.

I'm surprised you waited until the 6th. We already knew he wouldn't be in DC. You could have saved time and disowned him in November.

Not a coward. A good man. And I will make it my mission to make sure your mission does not succeed. We shall see whom the rank and file agree with.

[femme.democratique]

8. Tie yourself to a losing proposition, thats fine with me...

personally, I like to bet on the horse that wants to win!

[ClassWarrior]

13. NO Progressive proposition is a losing proposition.

We represent the best of American values - responsibility, courage, opportunity, hope, compassion. Now who embodies those qualities? John Kerry? Or Chimpy McBush**??

And according to your own evaluation, "the horse that wants to win" would be none other than Dubya** himself. Go bet on him... Bye...

NGU.

[femme.democratique]

15. Progressive values only mean something when you ACT on them!

To me, he's just "more of the same". I was there, I voted for him, I believed in him, and I'm now done with him. We really need to find better candidates, someone who isn't a jaded career politician.

[FreepFryer]

24. Do you have a glass head? 'Cause I can see right thru you.

[femme.democratique]

26. You don't know what you're talking about, and with a name like that...

...Get off your high horse, you don't know me, and certainly don't know enough to "see through me". You just can't handle it that a thinking liberal would EVER down Kerry.

It looks like you Kerry groupies can't handle a little dissent. Thats too bad, who sounds like a FReeper now?

[FreepFryer]

32. sigh...

[LittleClarkie]

52. Hey honey we're not the ones talking vandetta now, are we

Work for who you are going to work for, but don't declare war on a Dem. That's just not cool. Don't do everything in your power to make sure Kerry doesn't win the primary. Do everything in your power to make sure your chosen candidate wins. If that's what you really meant then fine. But what's with the negativity and hateration on the Party.

We don't mind desent. It's the childish destructive whining that's hurting our ears. And at this point, being in what seems to be the minority, I do believe we are the dissenters. Few seem to be able to handle the idea that we still support the guy.

[pbartch]

67. How do you know he's "jaded"

You have no idea what's going on in his head. You're being a "mind raper"

[rawtribe]

7. The only Democrat

I will ever get behind again is one who said "yea" today. The rest can go to Hell!

They won't stand up for me, why should I support them?

:shrug:

[FreepFryer]

9. Smells fishy to me. Nasty fishy fishy fishy fish.

[femme.democratique]

12. care to elaborate?

[FreepFryer]

18. Oui, je pense que vous etes une agente provocateure. :)

:hi:

[femme.democratique]

20. Celui n'est pas vrai...

Vous doutez de ma sincérité parce que???

[DancingBear]

63. Tish, that's French!!

Sorry. :)

[femme.democratique]

21. And for the non francophones on DU-

You doubt me because what? Because I dare not agree with you and the others who desire to support Kerry? Come on, thats really weak. Think what you want, you don't know me.

[AgadorSparticus]

28. damn. what's with the DU thought nazi's? i'm reading through this

thread and it seems the more time passes and kerry does nothing, the more rabid the pro kerry thought police get. :wtf: crazy shit. i'll probably get labeled a freeper too because i am disillusioned with kerry and the democratic party.

[FreepFryer]

47. I see, is 'censorship' the new meme? I don't have any power to moderate...

[AgadorSparticus]

61. new meme? no, it's what I see and apparently what others see as well.

much to your chagrin, it isn't a collaborative effort. not everyone who dislikes or is disillusioned with kerry is a freeper mole trying to undermine your efforts.

no, you don't delete posts or moderate, you and others just bully people with differing opinions.

[foo_bar]

19. "Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes."

"Fredo, you're nothing to me now. I don't want to see you. I don't want to know you. If you visit our mother, I want to know a day in advance. You're dead to me."

[Left coast liberal]

10. I understand where you are coming from but I won't go that far...

Call me simple, but in his e-mail yesterday Kerry forshadowed his next agenda which will be election reform. Everything submitted today and that comes out in the future will be evidence for his case. Dare we wish for Impeachment Hearings!

We are screwed. Just looking at Delays smug hair-do today made me sick but I can't throw in the towel yet.

I'm down that is for sure but I can't keep but thinking about the Women's Vote Movement and how bummed K. Stanton must have felt on her deathbed knowing her goal was not accomplished. But, time is an amazing thing...

Take a second look at your kids or those other kids hanging out. They are listening, they hear. They will have a voice too, quite soon. Our allies, you'll see.

A day and night of somber reflection, then back to the job at hand.

Cheers!

[femme.democratique]

14. Yes, but I hear he made dismissive comments today in Baghdad.

If he cared that much he'd be working on it NOW, you know, "strike while the iron is hot"? As it appears, this is just another "action item" on his laundry list.

[Amaryllis]

22. Dismissive comments? About what?

[femme.democratique]

23. About the challenge, while in Baghdad

I posted looking for the exact verbage, haven't been able to find a quote.

[Amaryllis]

56. That is really discouraging. This is not the Kerry I thought I knew from

his past record of standing up and doing the right thing even when it wasn't popular (BCCI scandal, POW-MIA issue, etc.) Not saying he should have stood up and challenged but he should have supported the challenge.

[KoKo]

11. I did what he asked and phoned Hastert/Frist...He's DEAD to me too!

When Barbara Boxer said she hadn't talked to him..today in the Press Conference I knew that he had NEVER BEEN INVOLVED!

I should have listened to what his brother "CAM" said in his e-mail posted on DU last night where he basically said...it's over...there's no fraud in the election.

But...I didn't..I said I'll give it one last time for Kerry... Even though his e-mail to his supporters didn't show up until close to noon yesterday when it caused a scramble of folks trying to call Frist/Hastert at the last minute...

My ABB Days are OVER...When Jeb is installed I'll be OUTTA HERE one way or the other... Another Party or another country.

I'm sick of this "Bait and Cave" attitude. I'm not a toy to be played with...!!!!!!! And neither are any of the other "ABB" or Kerry Supporters... What the hell was his campaign about anyway... So many Dean/Kucinich/Green folks supported him...ABB.. and he left us as "trash by the side of the road."

Screw Him....

[FreepFryer]

31. I disagree. It's bigger than your sense of not being stroked enough.

[puddycat]

16. Kerry is just pure politician, saving his own future.

The biggest problem with trying to improve America is having to deal with politicians, who in my book are part of a big dung heap. We may need dung heaps, but it still smells and it still is dung.
Kerry is more dung than some, but not as much as others.

We saw it Thursday, how only a few Democrats were willing to stand up and fight for America. All the rest are not willing to risk their very nice perky government jobs, especially the Senators. They aren't willling to dig out of the dung, because they like the smell.

I worked hard for Kerry, and I'm not sorry, because I wanted Bush gone so badly, but I'm very disgusted with the whole thing. Kerry purposely being out of the country when the votes are counted is just too obvious a cowardly move. The man I admired who testified against the war in Vietnam evidently doesn't exist anymore.

[FreepFryer]

25. Maybe he's saving yours. Why not get off your duff and stand up yourself?

Work hard for Election Protection. Kerry will be spearheading it.

In the meantime, take your silly Kerry-bashing elsewhere. It's coming off false.

[femme.democratique]

27. Wait FreepFryer, who died and made you GOD (aka DU censor)?

"Kerry-bashing" doesn't sound false to me. Yes, go ahead and claim that you know the motives and sincerity behind what people post here. Laughable, idiotic, and arrogant all at the same time!

[marcologico]

29. take it easy.

Wishing death on Kerry is not exactly showing solidarity. Anyway think it through. What is it you wanted him to do? Turn himself into a laughingstock by not conceding for another day? Another week? Another month? And THEN conceding? How convenient for Murdoch.

The fact is he didn't have the votes. They were stolen, sure, but he didn't have them, and there was no way to prove it overnight. It will take months of investigation to expose. Who do you think we're dealing with, Wiley Coyote? It's the CIA and they have 50 years of experience rigging elections. I think Kerry knows better than we do how to deal with them, because he's done it. But it takes time.

[FreepFryer]

30. and femme shows her true colors. I did no such thing. But your posts are..

...way over the top. Please chill.

[femme.democratique]

33. Please chill? You're the one trying to "out" people....

....ridiculous.

[Carolab]

FreepFryer is VERY pro-Kerry

I ran into a similar confrontation earlier today.

[FreepFryer]

35. NO, I'm ANTI-CANNIBALISM.

[Carolab]

40. Then stop eating your own here. n/t

[FreepFryer]

44. Kerry, Clinton, Obama, Nelson, Kennedy, Pelosi = our own. Prioritize.

[femme.democratique]

38. Thanks Carolab, scary that you can't even express an opinion here....

....without approval from certain people. It hurts to have lost faith in Kerry because I honestly believed in him!

[Carolab]

48. I know, it's hard--I worked to GOTV for him

and I wasn't even a supporter to begin with. I voted for Dean in my caucus. But Dean asked us to support him, and so I (reluctantly) did. I was becoming a supporter by the time I voted. Now I feel abandoned.

[LittleClarkie]

54. I worked GOTV too

I don't feel abandoned. And I supported Clark in the primaries (naw, really?)

We Kerrycrats feel we aren't allowed to express an opinion either. Just one hint of support and its "Skull and Bones!" "Kerry's an elitist flip-flopping coward" "Kerry's disappeared" "Kerry must be windsurfing somewhere!"

Geez, spout a few more Republican talking points, why don't ya. No wonder we fucking lost, if indeed we did. The support was broad, but it sure wasn't deep.

[NightOwwl]

36. My post will probably get deleted, but enough is enough.

You've been a member for 8, count'em, 8 days...long enough to know the rules. Here's the link...enjoy:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

[FreepFryer]

37. Can you help me learn what you think is incorrect in my posts?

[NightOwwl]

41. Read the rules. Nuff said. n/t

[arcos]

53. 8 days and over 600 posts?

:wow:

[weeve]

34. Kerry watched the 2000 Gore fiasco...

... and did nothing substantive as a Senator to ensure Election crimes like this wouldn't happen again. In 2002 he watched as fellow Viet Nam vet ( and triple amputee ) Max Cleland get the shaft in Georgia thanks to Diebold & Co. He knew the fix was going to be in during this 2004 election , and did, WHAT EXACTLY ?!?

Barbara Boxer was the only one who had my back today.

Who cares which Democrat runs in 2006 or 2008 ? If elections are still run as they've been since 2000 it won't really matter, now will it?

[marcologico]

39. heard you the first time n/t

[femme.democratique]

42. I must say some of my faith in Dems has been restored.

Boxer kicks ass, and I can't say enough good things about Conyers, Tubbs-Jones et al. I agree, Kerry doesn't get it now and he never will. Its almost as if they're in denial that things could be so screwed up and in reality THEY are to blame because they make the rules!

[FreepFryer]

45. I simply think you're missing Kerry's entire strategy here. It was the...

...only way he could go. It has been discussed here a great deal.

And now he is positioned for Election Protection, and maybe 2008.

In my opinion.

I cannot understand what appears to be smearing Kerry on this, rather than looking objectively at the circumstance and expectations upon a Presidential candidate in this spot.

[marcologico]

50. yep n/t

[orleans]

43. Al Gore told Boxer to let it go

Anyone see her saying that? She said four years ago Al Gore told her not to sign onto the petition--to let it go. And, according to her, she doesn't like to admit to mistakes, but she realizes that this was a mistake and she should have done this four years ago when she realized it wasn't about Gore--it was about the votes.

it would've broken my heart if it didn't piss me off so much. that he was telling senators to let it go? how full of himself he must have been! he never asked my opinion on it. and she is right: it wasn't about him (and he made it about him).

god--we could've prevented the last four years and these next four years from being the way they were/will be!

sigh

[marcologico]

49. maybe but I find that hard to believe

Look what it took to get her to do it this year. Letters, calls, faxes, e-mails, marches, sit-ins, demonstrations in L.A. and San Francisco, all targeted to her, and still nobody knew until yesterday what she was going to do. And none of that was happening in 2000.

[The Judged]

46. Kerry never really had a fair chance! He knew that, but went for it!

When:

- more voters vote for you than for every preceding elected president in the history of this nation including * in 2000
- you still lose by 3,000,000 + votes on Election Day
- the exit polls show that you really are the president-elect
- the exit polls cannot be released to the public due to fudge being spilled all over them
- the electronic vote is controlled by Re-uglicans
- the electronic vote is not verifiable
- the recount of Ohio votes is hijacked by Triad part-time workers
- the Re-uglicans politically say, "do as I say, not as I do!" &
- the MSM treats you like the mere mention of your cause and your supporters efforts are unpatriotic,

... then who is living in a fantasy world?

Those that decry that you should march to your death at every fork in the road, or those that support your movement and have true loyalty to the cause that you took up when you became their candidate?

I am not abandoning ship!

John F. Kerry is brilliant and has the utmost integrity.

I believe that despite all of the naysayers, who have given up on him or who never liked him, that he will prevail and that * & the Re-uglican Potty are going to go down!

My opinion may be only an opinion, but I am not wavering.

I am on deck aboard Kerry's battleship & there is room for everyone who believes in Democracy.

All hands on board! Full steam ahead!

[femme.democratique]

51. you, sir, (maam?) are an optimist! :-) eom

[weeve]

55. Somewhere ...

... over the rainbow ...

May I borrow your rose tinted glasses ?

[loudsue]

64. Thank you,Judged!! Very well said!

I am disappointed, as well as some here, that Kerry wasn't leading this fight. But I really do understand how he really would have been unleashing the biggest rightwing smear in history if he had tried.

The right wing extremist mafia that runs our government is extremely dangerous, and they need to be attacked head on. Kerry missed an oportunity to lead the charge, but "I" wouldn't have done such a thing without irrefutable evidence if I was him.... and the neocons won't even let us do a criminal investigation in Fla. or Ohio. It's a really weird position to be in. I hope Kerry is smart enough to eventually pull it off, but I still don't know how he can do it. I hope he knows!

Kerry DID win, and the voters lost. Kerry has vowed to help us get our vote back, by helping with real election reform. I know he'll fight for that, even though the wingnuts have complete control of our government.

To me, Kerry is STILL a winner! Our country has simply been taken over by the mafia, and NOBODY who is sane knows what to do about it!

:kick::kick::kick:

[spooked]

58. He's Dead, as Gore is Dead, and candidate 2008 might just as well be Dead

n/t

[KittyWampus]

59. Well, Many DU'ers Are Getting Close To Being DEAD TO ME. I Am Sick

of the infantile temper tantrums.

The complete lack of understanding.

The sanctimonious demands for complete gratification of ones personal desires.

A complete lack of appreciation for what the DEMOCRATS ACTUALLY DID YESTERDAY.

The total inability to see how pathetic the Democrats who spoke up yesterday made the GOP look.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

65. All right, a new boss of the post

[Laura PourMeADrink]

66. Femme. I like your idea about the citizens group -- Kind of like

the 9-11 Families.