They know we know they stole it...

[liberalpress]

....here's how I know. I have a passing familiarity with right wing talk radio. They know we know they stole it, because THEY"RE STILL DISSIN' KERRY. Still making smears, still telling lies, still making personal attacks.

What does that tell YOU!

[cubsfan forever]

1. That they KNOW they stole it n/t

Professor 2

[ewagner]

2. Tells me that

they are INNOCULATING against any revelations that may come up during recounts or counting of provisional ballots in OH.

I hope our troops are on the ground in Ohio and Florida.........and I hope our leadership is ready for another knife fight.

[Heyo]

4. Whatever happened....

....with the "armies of lawyers" everybody had?

:shrug:

Heyo

[rucky]

3. what else would they talk about on RW hate radio?

i'm not sure I follow.

[yellowcanine]

5. Well they are still dissin Jimmy Carter too so that in itself is not proof

Dissin is what Repubs are good at.

[dweller]

39. Dissin' Carter???

damn, now you know they ARE scared.

Carter monitors elections all over the world. Awarded Nobel Peace Prize.

i hope JC comes out with the truth on the fraud, in the pukes faces.

dp

[Polly Glot]

6. On this morning's Cincinnati right-wing radio

they were saying that those evil Kerry people kept the press stalling for hours, not allowing them to call Ohio for Bush. OOOOhh, "Bush was up by 150,000 votes -- of course he was the clear winner..."


:grr:

[Felix Mala]

29. They couldn't call for Ohio because of...

...those people who had been in line for 9 hours at Kenyon College (and probably other place) who didn't vote until 2 a.m. The Neo-Con (N-Cee)Party brown shirts probably threw out their ballots too!

[kentuck]

7. It depends on how you define "stole"....

Did they outright steal the votes - take them off to some unknown place after they had been cast? I don't know. I have not seen enough proof to state that yet.

However, if by "stole" you mean, did they suppress voter turnout in different states by holding up people from voting for up to 8 hours at a time. If by "stole" you mean, were they successful in keeping people away from the polls, then yes, they stole it. The Democrats were trying ot get voters to the polls and Repubs were trying to prevent people from getting to the polls - at least, some people.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

12. Bubba, trust me when I tell you...

There is plenty of data that points off to the odiferous decay byproducts of something in the State of Denmark. It deserves a full, vigorous, aggressive and scrupulous review by the agencies and institutions of our government. Anything less will render the covenent between the people and the government worthless.

[Willy Lee]

13. Kentuck-

The theft of the election was NOT just about keeping voters at home. It was about rigging the Diebold BBV amchines. The evidence is astounding.

[kentuck]

18. The evidence is anecdotal at this time....

ALthough the possibility is there that there was widespread fraud, we have not yet seen it. I'm willing to keep an open mind until it is proven but let's not accept it as CW yet. That does no one any good.

[whistle]

8. The talk shows are paid to do this and will continue to do it to keep...

...oppositional voices supressed and under ridicule to make the rest of America who are asleep from questionning what is really going on. The genocide of democracy and constitutional rights will continue unchecked and at a much more rapid pace. The military adventures of the Bush administration are now accelerating and world conquest will become the top priority.

[OnceAndFutureTruth]

9. We need legal challenge in ALL states w/ electronic ballot w/o paper trail

Can it not be done on the basis of the most recent (2000) Supreme Court ruling on elections? Didn't they require that all votes be counted equally? I have no legal knowledge so I am not certain that I've got that right, but if all votes really do need to be counted equally, then those that are counted electronically with no capacity for anyone to look at them, to confirm what that vote actually WAS, aren't equal, imho.

So, maybe this is what has Rush, et al, worried. They need to keep dissing to keep the attention on Kerry personally, not the voting problems.

[politicalhackfromMO]

10. What happened to the lawyers.

I think the lawyers were dismissed way to early.
surely there was something (and we know there was something)
for them to look at before they went home.

Something is not right

[OnceAndFutureTruth]

14. I wish Kerry had recognized that if so many people have questions,

that the thing that is NEEDED is an investigation (Gallup poll found 23% could not say they thought Bush had won "fair and square"). Yes, it would be embarrassing for us, the supposed democratic beacon of the world to be having these problems, but without investigating again, there is little hope of rehauling the system to make it indisputably fair for the future. So no matter what he thought the outcome might show, to do the investigation would be the democratic thing to do. Those who watch from other countries would also learn a lesson on how we don't just sweep problems under the carpet, but work through the democratic process, to resolve them.

Don't we?

[LibLabUK]

28. Hmm

"the supposed democratic beacon of the world "

Self-proclaimed more like... the only people who refer to the US as the 'greatest democracy in the world' are Americans.

[OnceAndFutureTruth]

31. If Americans are to be persuaded to investigate, one needs to refer to

those arguments and icons which are most likely to persuade them. If I could remember the things he said well enough, I would quote Ronald Reagan, as it is, after all, Republicans who most need convincing.

No offense meant to any other country.

[goclark]

26. How do we know they "ALL" went home?

I simply can not believe that there are not lawyers doing a lot of things about this FRAUD.

It is probably just the top string of lawyers however.
They would have to make sure the info didn't dripple out.

We are still the worker bees, lifting those that are still in a deep depression to WORK for justice.

[newyawker99]

41. Hi politicalhackfromMO!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[kath]

21. AND recounts in all states that use the GEMS central tabulator to count

optical-scan ballots! The central tabulators are so easily manipulated - absolutely incredible.

[OnceAndFutureTruth]

27. "The price of democracy is eternal vigilance." -Jefferson

Somebody should approach Kerry and try to persuade him to reconsider. He is trying to do the right thing, imho. But, although it would be embarrassing, and although we are in a time of war, we MUST HAVE a transparent process. Otherwise, what is the POINT of anyone fighting ANYWHERE? After all, if we (and this is in dispute, I realize) are fighting to provide a possibility of democracy in the ME, then we ought to show those emerging democracies how it is done in the event of a dispute. We solve the problems with laws, not guns. Rather than avoid the conflict, it is a wonderful opportunity to show others that in our society arguments can occur without resorting to violence.

And I say this as a person who is at this point still uncertain of what an investigation might uncover.

[wrate]

30. This is exactly where the largest hacking may be found.

This concentrators take information from polling sites around them and account using the GEMS sw. This Windows based computers could be the culprits, no matter if the reporting polling sites had optical scanning or touch screens or whatever. This computers, in short, are where the results from all around are poured in, this results can modified in a matter of seconds.

[OnceAndFutureTruth]

33. Does the data go through an ISP? Because that is another potential

problem, isn't it? I don't know if the raw data still exists on the source equipment, but perhaps if so, there could be a comparison.

There should be an investigation into ALL potential sources of manipulation of the results, imho.

AND for that matter, there should be laws that require enough polling sites and workers to prevent the long lines and hours of waiting to vote.

[wrate]

38. Actually if this feeding of polling information is done via the Internet,

then a completely different universe of hacking is possible. I don't know if the transfer of information is done using private lines or the Internet. But if the Internet is used, then that means that the Windows PC is connected to the Internet and the GEMS sw could just as easily incorporate a server that listens for instructions on what to do to poll information. The Windows PC user would not even know it, just as spyware does it, for instance.

[OnceAndFutureTruth]

43. Many people are still very naive about computers...

and in a very small county they might less likely to go to the expense of a private system. Or, in counties where the elections people didn't really understand much about computers they also might be less careful. Do you think any information would be available, online or elsewhere, about how each county has handled this issue?

[Democrat For Life]

11. It's really getting on my nerves...

Since the end of the election, all the Republicans continue to do is bash the democrats and John Kerry. I wish something good would come out of this like them question George for all his mishaps in the past. I search everything online on George Bush and the rest of his clan. I never read anything good, yet none of that shit comes to light. For example, Prescott Bush's connections to Adolf Hitler. Any truth in that? Another would be Bush's ignorance on 9/11. Republicans can sit there and continue to bash Kerry and say he turned his back on his troops in Vietnam and called them monsters. That's hard to believe. The Republicans think they are right on everything. They think they are no it alls. They think they can pick 100 flaws from Kerry, Gore, or Clinton. You pick one flaw from Bush and it's an all out war. I wish someone would speak out in public and get that asshole impeached.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

15. Impeachment, at this time...

Is a worthless waste of time. There is nothing that rises to the level that is truly known and provable. Know that anything that would possibly be usuable, in this climate, would have to rise to levels parsecs above that of Clinton's and be of such stunning scope that the members of his own party would have to make a decision between him and the country.

Evidence like that is nowhere in sight. So do what you can do, and discard any notions of impeachment. You have a better chance of flying to the moon by flapping your arms.

[dogtag]

17. Yep, a dead hooker or a live boy caught in Bush's bed

wouldn't suffice. I don't know if an undoctored photo of him using the constitution for toilet paper would even work. Let's face it, there aren't any lions in Congress anymore who would walk over to the White House and have a heart to heart chat with the errant pretender to the throne, much less impeach him.

[liberalpress]

25. Also consider this scenario:

Rove: What do I think of the voter fraud allegations? I hope they're investigted by evry branch of government, the national press, the foreign press and any and all who have the ability. We knew something was wrong when Kerry won Pennsylvania, and the we lost wisconsin. Also the race in Ohio was closer than it should have been, I look forward to being able to prove the Democrats stole votes in theose states!

[dbonds]

19. If fraud is proven in time, no Impeachment neccessary

Of course there is the Impeachable offense of presenting misleading information to congress to take us to war. But we don't really have the congressial mass on our side on that, unless we can find some truely moral republican congressmen. Showing fraud is not enough, all that will do create doubt in some moderates. The other side will spin it as the fraud is on Kerry side - they always project their crimes on their opponents. And no chance of Bush resigning in shame, he has no shame. If we can't prove it and do it in time to stop the electoral college or a subsequent FBI investigation, then all we can hope for is some legal troubles for election officials and the feeling of doubt.

[WildClarySage]

35. They will, yes

they have the nuts to say that Kerry tampered with the election and still managed to lose. They will use that as more "proof" of his "incompetence". They are assholes.

[Sparkle]

23. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[rainy]

16. also, heard on fox last night, everyone talking about all of the

Democratic hijinks at the polls, as if they think by showing dems did some dirty tricks it will balance the report of reb. voter fraud when the shit hits the fan.

[MarkusQ]

24. Work with it

"also, heard on fox last night, everyone talking about all of the Democratic hijinks at the polls, as if they think by showing dems did some dirty tricks it will balance the report of reb. voter fraud when the shit hits the fan."

The problem with "party A = good, party B = evil" is that it can be used to turn us against each other. A nation split down the middle can be swung by one fake vote, or by keeping one honest person from the polls. This is an issue on which the nation should be unitied. If there was cheating, fraud, whatever, everyone should want it exposed and corrected, regardless of which party did it.

The proper response to the claims you heard on Fox isn't "oh yeah? Well, you cheated worse!"

The proper response is "I share your concerns. We should look into all the reported problems. Fair elections are more important than party politics. Let us start, shall we?"

-- MarkusQ

[txindy]

32. Excellent point

Welcome to DU, MarkusQ! :hi:

[OnceAndFutureTruth]

34. EXACTLY! No matter what the ultimate result, we should ALL want to

make sure we can depend on our system of voting. We are lost, if we cannot.

[dweller]

40. Did the R's votes reeeeaaalllly count?

or did the machines vote for them.

could be used to change their votes next time....hmmmm?

let them think about it.
dp

[newyawker99]

42. Hi MarkusQ!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Chimpanzee]

44. MarkusQ

Haven't you been issued you're Tin Foil Hat yet?? :tinfoilhat:

[Straight Shooter]

20. Let the right wingers do their DAMAGE CONTROL

That is what is going on now. They think if they can set it up in people's minds that this is a whole lotta fuss about nuttin', then when the truth does emerge, Americans won't accept it.

Same with WMD, same with Iraq and 9/11 connection. They talked and talked about it as if it were true, and lo and behold, the lowest common denominator of America's intelligence strata still believes it's true. To be sure, these are people who also think Earth was created in 6 days, bwahahahahaha.

But I digress. This situation is different ... this is about our republic, this is about democracy, this is about our rights as Americans. Yes, this is different. People don't take lightly being robbed of their votes, or standing in line for hours and hours for nothing. Even Republicans don't like the idea that the world thinks our election is as fraudulent as a third world nation.

I think it's funny, in a black humor sort of way, that the right wing is now the party claiming that Dems are guilty of CONSPIRACY.

[GreenPartyVoter]

22. They have nothing else to whine about. They "WON" so they are unhappy

because they haven't got a target in site anymore.

Tragic, eh?

------------------------------------------------------------
Help expose the election 2004 voter fraud today!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[bunkerbuster1]

36. I agree, because they're dissing exit polling as well

and I've encountered several Bushies online who are regurgitating this nonsense. They don't seem to know WHY it's so important to diss exit polling, but trust me, their overlords certainly do.

[tandem5]

37. but they don't know that we know that they know we know they stole it n/t