What could reverse 132 years of Dems in GA? Diebold! See dramatic shifts.

[Amaryllis]

For 132 years, Georgia went democratic in its elections. Then the state wnet 100% Diebold, and suddenly, president, senate, house, govennor and counties go red. What a coincidence! Lots of great easy to read data here. This should go on the best fraud articles list.

http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/articles/0128-georgia.pdf

[WI_DEM]

1. The south has been moving steadily to the Republicans for

decades it was a matter of time. Besides Georgia last voted Democratic for president in 1980 for favorite son Jimmy Carter.

[Wilms]

6. Not exactly, WI DEM.

Georgia Highlights

edited cause I had grabbed Alabama's page by mistake

60 Kennedy
64 Goldwater
76 Carter
80 Carter
92 Clinton by a hair

<http://uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/comparegraphs.php?fips=13>

<http://uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/>

[WI_DEM]

8. Yes as I said Georgia last went to Democrat Jimmy Carter in '80

by a large margin--you have Reagan winning by a whisker--Carter won 57%. Besides Carter, as you say JFK was the last Democrat to win Georgia, but that was near the end of the Democratic hold of the "solid south"--since then except for favorite son Carter, no dem has won the state in the presidential election. Why? not Diebold, but due to the Democrats taking a activist role in civil rights. Johnson correctly said when he signed the Civil Rights Act of '64 "We've lost the south for a generation." Well, he was wrong it has been longer.

[Wilms]

10. Had to edit cause I had !Alabama! data, sorry!

And I agree with all else indicated.

Yes, it's been longer than a generation. (And how long since the "civil" war.)

[rigel99]

13. THANKS!

I fixed it.. sorry had forgotten the Reagan years were particularly influential for even Georgia.. thanks for your help.. I was tired when I did that slide.. I will spend weekend getting backup data sources for them.. for now I sent solarbus a newer more accurate slide.. thanks for your help.

[Wilms]

19. Votes Cast

From:

<http://uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/comparegraphs.php?fips=13>

I summed them.

Georgia Votes Cast

2004 3,301,875
2000 2,535,950
1996 2,299,071
1992 2,321,133
1988 1,809,672

Keep these #'s in mind.

Don't get me wrong. Here's my opinion of DRE's. :argh: And I wouldn't doubt they are rigged, that SOME of the were votes stolen there, AND lots elsewhere via dirty tricks. So DRE vote theft, or any other single issue, doesn't bear the entire burden of "significant" election fraud. They spread it out, logically.

Here's some engineering articles about the DRE Danger.

<http://elecdesign.com/Articles/ArticleID/8879/8879.html>

<http://eet.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=51201118>

[lala_rawraw]

21. I found something really odd...

not a clue what it is...
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:ABmQK1E2USgJ:www.chez.com/leppa/firewalls/bbl.html+%2266.150.161.134%22+election+2004&hl=en

[bleever]

48. DoD and NASA have listings near the bottom...but I have no idea what it is

What strikes you about it?

[SeveneightyWhoa]

2. Have you considered natural shifts?

What makes you so sure its an artificial (Diebold-manufactured) shift? Your premise is somewhat ridiculous.

[New Earth]

3. um

i don't think Amaryllis wrote the article herself, she is posting a link to it. Regardless, did you read the article?

[SeveneightyWhoa]

4. Sure didn't!

I have better things to do on a Friday night. ;)

Anyway, the "Diebold did it" nonsense just kills me, and this thread is a perfect example of that.

[New Earth]

5. lol

i caught you!!!!


(i didn't read it either, i'm eating a hoagie :hi: )

[KoKo]

7. If the code shifts Dem votes to Repug...how would one know the truth?

This could be covered up easily with RW Spin...Look at the Propaganda covering up the lies, fraud and corruption of the Bushies for the last four years. How did they get so much power and why are they so confident? It isn't about a bunch of Religious fanatics taking over the South....or folks just loving the Repugs...that would be too hard...the easy way is to rig the vote...

[garybeck]

12. maybe you should read the article before you speak about it

Anyone who passes off "Diebold did it" as a laugh obviously has not investigated this question thoroughly, or perhaps at all.

[Amaryllis]

46. So you are willing to condemn something you haven't even read?

[Amaryllis]

11. Right, Faye, I didn't write it. Just quoting from the article.

[rigel99]

15. It Never astounds me..

that our own biggest audience to convince is ourselves first.. progressives who know that Bush lied on everything under the sun, but somehow he found 'honesty' around elections... he's in offices by powers that be much greater than any current or prior President... and they manipulate dem/repub. parties for their own aims....

the shift is very odd.. so sudden and so wildly republican that I"m not sure we can explain it all away as natural.... really, I'm not willing to call that extreme a shift in 4 different areas of government valid....

[Wilms]

9. OK. I've read it.

And it's not exactly, either...

On page 3, the Presidential column is way out of whack (see my post above). And the url provided has little relation to the chart. It's a 2004 Results page.

<http://www.sos.state.ga.us/elections/election_results/2004_1102/001.htm>

Everything else seemed awfully interesting, but after my experience with page 3, I feel like I'll need to fact-find the entire document.

I already know the Election was stolen. I already know DRE's should not be used.

And I now know, too, that the chart on page 3 has wrong data and a misleading reference.

That just doesn't help the cause.

[rigel99]

14. Sorry about that One Slide 3,

but don't let that make you wonder about the other slides...
the other slides have Letters that unfortunately are too small to read on PPT, but they are indeed scanned in letters... the REAL MCCOY, and they show just how evasive Cathy Cox's office and will not release any data that helps us audit GEorgia. It's a great big fucking joke really, that they care calling us terrorists because we want to audit an election that we all know stinks to high heaven of fraud.

jeez... you should be me, in the trenches, talking to ACLU and trying to coerce lawyers into giving a crap about this... was actually told death row projects more important.... has our world come to that, an ACLU lawyer resource contention between saving death row lives or saving the right to vote from citizens who have lost all form of representative government.. if I was so damn busy fighting my friends and other progressives, I might be further along.. let's all get in the trenches and begin holding our government accountable... and posting it like crazy everywhere!

I will try harder to make slide 3 so damn researched and backedup that no Repub can poke holes in it. thanks for your help!

[Wilms]

22. That graph still isn't accurate.

And I think you are hurting a perfectly good argument about the DRE's.

Does your first bullet, "What Could Reverse 132 Years of Democrats?", consider '64, '68, and '72? Though the graph goes on to slight Clinton's '92 victory.

Senate-wise, are retiring Dixie-Crats at issue? Population increases, etc?

But even the theft of additional margins is really bad, especially for the presidential popular vote. And I have no doubt they did that.

Stick to facts. Leave out the alienating sarcasm and personal commentary. It's not a post, but an otherwise great paper you are developing.

Talk about felons employed by the "Big 3".

Remind how one flipped vote gives a two vote margin.

Show more data of election day trouble.

List public officials to be contacted, and given the MythBreakers piece.

Again, you have a perfectly good argument in there.

[Boredtodeath]

24. Not good argument. Innuendo and supposition.

There's not much "evidence" in that document, no matter what the version is you are reading. The only evidence is the police report, the memos/letters from the SoS and they say nothing admissible in a courtroom.

Horribly disjointed, badly written and hyperbole in the same fashion as Bev Harris.

The errors are abundant and destroy the credibilty of the small bits of fact.

[Boredtodeath]

28. I'll answer your question about the Georgia senate

In 2002, the DEMS did not lose the Georgia state senate in the election. They, in fact, maintained their majority until 4 Democratic senators, bribed by the new governor (Perdue) with committee and majority appointments, switched parties to the republicans.

The VOTERS voted for Democrats and the CANDIDATES betrayed their voters 4 days after the election to give the new republican governor a majority in the senate.

Oh, and BTW, that governor (Perdue) was also once a Democrat. And the Senate Majority Leader (Bill Stephens) was also once a Democrat (he was a 2002 switcher).

[rigel99]

39. Good Advice

I am taking your advice, cause it's awesome..
where can I find data on the felons employed at big '3"
also, do you like the theme of Vote Outsourcing.. to incite the average voter's IRE that their vote is outsourced to dishonest large corporations?

what's youre take? i agree I love the mythbreakers.. will add that too...

[Wilms]

50. Google.

Try "felons", adding Diebold OR Triad OR ES&S.

"Vote Outsourcing" as a forum thread title? Sure. For a piece you want taken seriously, "inciting" seems off the point.

You want to piss off non-facist Repubs? Go ahead. Alienate Dems. That'll work, too.

Lay out facts and let them inform your phrasing and terminology use. Be non-partisan. Did THE Republicans steal the election? Probably not. More likely, SOME Repubs, and/or some people in SOME Repubs employ did it. See the difference? An easier case to make, no?

Leave out the personal facts. That you're a Dean Dem and that your Dad would want you to do this aren't compelling talking points. They hurt your argument.

BillBored, I think, said you don't have a legal case. Is that true? Have you backed it up with legal counsel? Even if you don't have a legal case you can argue the merits AND mention that the laws prevent voter's relief, if that's the case. Then you are unimpeachable. See?

[Amaryllis]

47. Who is the "You" to whom you refer? I didn't write this. I just posted it.

I thought it was interesting and a good thing about DU is that inaccuracies will be pointed out quickly, unlike MSM where they run rampant.

[Wilms]

49. My reply was to rigel's post #14.

And I'm assuming him to be the essay's author.

Though also the thread title, "the first bullet" I'm referring to is in his piece.

And DU does seem to be a good place for an author to get a good critique.

What said author does with that good critique remains to be seen.

The author made changes to a graph when I pointed out it's inaccuracy. What he should have done is corrected it. It's still inaccurate.

[Wilms]

27. Oh. Rigel. See Post 24.

Gotta stick to facts.

[candice]

16. Zogby supposedly shutdown after 2002 to find out what went wrong

after blackbox voting arrived in Georgia. The Democratic gov and Max Clelland were predicted winners from the exit polls. I guess those patched added to certain machines worked.

[rigel99]

17. Good Analysis

Zogby was right.

Georgia likes a Cleland and a Barnes... they really do match more the kind of people Georgians vote for, it's just plain intuitive.. but more sininister were the overturned house seats in areas that had been hurt by redistricting...

it's too bad 2 years is the statute of limitations for overturning elections.. I've got some killer data to implicate Diebold.. but can only work on 2004 elections....

[garybeck]

18. 2 years is the statute of limitations for overturning elections?

What does that mean? Is that GA law, or ? Just wondering? In GA are you saying that they can unseat a politician while he/she is in office if it's found they stole the election?

My understanding for the presidency is once he's inaugurated there's nothing you can do except impeachment and that can only be done if it's shown he was personally involved or at least knew it was going on.

[Boredtodeath]

23. That's complete BS

There is no such law in Georgia.

[rigel99]

35. ACTUALLY NOT BS

the 2 year limitation applies to their need to keep election data, meaning to mount a fraud campaign for 2002, we cannot even access the raw digitals or other paper printouts of the Diebold machines as we've passed 2 years since 2002 and that is the statue of limitations on the government's need to store the data...

HOWEVER, if we prove a 2004 election fraud in Georgia, we will cast doubt on even the 2002 elections and my plan to begin statewide REcalls, citizen generated to tell folks who they voted for was indeed NOT ELECTED...

[Boredtodeath]

40. Yes it IS BS

Because there is simply no such law.

What you mean to say is that you sat on your ass for 2 years after the 2002 elections and let them destroy the data.

What you really mean to say is that you did nothing while they shredded the records (LEGALLY) and you cannot prove it now.

But, you have no right to blame anyone but yourself for letting it happen.

[rigel99]

42. GO AHEAD

Blast me all you want, your democracy hangs in my hands. Because I stopped being lazy and have lost my job, am giving my every penny, my ever moment of effort to this cause..

why are you doing but lazily writing stupid posts on a saturday afternoon? You are our biggest problem, the folks indignant about thing s but who refuse to lift a finger to take back their democracy..

you will be thanking me wildly when my lawsuits proceed to overturn voter confidence, to overturn vote outsourcing, to indeed begin nationwide recalls of candidates because I will have the source data that proves it was never managed honestly..... you will be thanking me profusely and wildly.. of this I am assured...

[Boredtodeath]

45. If democracy hangs in YOUR hands

we're finished. They'll laugh you out of the newsrooms, the law offices and the legislature.

Thank goodness, it's NOT in your hands.

As for lifting fingers, you haven't a clue what I have or have not lifted. That would be because YOU were MIA for 2 years.

[garybeck]

20. IMPORTANT NOTE - Referenced article has been corrected and updated

Due to an error found in the article, mentioned above in this thread, the article has been corrected and updated.

If you have the old PDF, please delete it and replace it with the new one, still found at the same URL:

http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/articles/0128-polls.html

thanks,
gary

------------------------------------
the solar bus
ELECTION FRAUD AND REFORM CENTER
your home for updated information on the fight for Democracy in America
http://election.solarbus.org
------------------------------------

[rigel99]

36. I LOVE MY SOLAR BUS

Gary, I wrote a song on my Korg Keyboard for you, for all your hard work entitled, "Solarbus dancing", it's cool.. will try to mail to you later today..

Keep up the good posts...

[garybeck]

51. another important note

I made a boo boo

in the thread right above this I pasted the wrong URL to the updated PDF.

I pasted in a link to an article I'm still working on, some of you may have noticed it said "Draft" on it and it was not about Georgia at all.

The correct link to the PDF about Georgia is still:

http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/articles/0128-georgia.pdf

that other link I provided is dead now. If you happened to peak at the article I'm working on, it should be ready for publishing anytime now.

sorry about the confusion

gary

------------------------------------
the solar bus
ELECTION FRAUD AND REFORM CENTER
your home for updated information on the fight for Democracy in America
http://election.solarbus.org
------------------------------------

[Stevepol]

25. Some have questioned that fraud took place in GA in 02. Why?

If there was ever an example of fraud, the 02 GA election is that example, and if anybody on this web site suggests that the Diebold machines are not responsible for that, they just haven't read the data or the sources. Go to google and find out what the people on the ground were saying when the elecion took place, read Bev Harris's book Black Box Voting. There's no question in my mind and there shd not be any question in anybody's mind that this election was a farce and a fraud. You have Roy Barnes with an 11% pt lead in pre-election polling and Max Cleland with a 5% lead FOUR DAYS BEFORE THE ELECTION. Then, you have an election in which the exit polls had the Dems winning by large margins, and yet in the end Barnes won by 5% -- A 16-POINT SWING FROM THE PRE-ELECTION POLLS TO THE ACTUAL RESULTS. Cleland lost in a 13%-point swing. It's hard to know what the swing was from the exit polls because they were pulled almost immediately because they were so wildly wrong. There are hundreds of irregularities documented w/ regard to the vote counting there, a whistleblower who swears he patched the machines after certification, a criminal offense, etc. etc. etc.

DEMAND A VOTER-VERIFIED PAPER BALLOT AND AUDITS FOR EVERY ELECTION

[Boredtodeath]

26. I don't think people here question that something happened

But, when you and the OP post incorrect "facts" like this one:

Then, you have an election in which the exit polls had the Dems winning by large margins, and yet in the end Barnes won by 5% -- A 16-POINT SWING FROM THE PRE-ELECTION POLLS TO THE ACTUAL RESULTS.

you don't help the effort. There are MULTIPLE errors in that single sentence.

Additionally, I don't see anyone here who does NOT agree that a voter verified paper ballot is necessary.

What I do see is ineffective debate, attacks on allies and incorrect, non-factual data being spread around. And that does NOTHING to help the folks who are on the ground fighting this.

In fact, I have to question if this isn't a concerted effort to discredit all the hard work done in Georgia as tinfoil because of the crazy factless ranting. The press prints the factually incorrect data as proof that all Georgians who oppose electronic voting are whack job nut cases.

[Boredtodeath]

29. The REAL facts

2002 Georgia US Senate
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/2002-11-03-state-polls-usat_x.htm
In Georgia, an Atlanta Journal-Constitution poll shows Democratic Sen. Max Cleland with a 49%-to-44% lead over Republican Rep. Saxby Chambliss.

Final Result
53 to 46 percent Chambliss

HOW ACCURATE?
Polls had Cleland winning by 2 and 5 points, he lost by 7

POST POLL SWING:
9 to 12 points towards Republican Party

***************

2002 Georgia Governor

http://www.coxnews.com/newsservice/stories/2002/1107-POLL.html
Similarly, no polls predicted the upset victory in Georgia of Republican Sonny Perdue over incumbent Democratic Gov. Roy Barnes. Perdue won by a margin of 52 to 45 percent. The most recent Mason Dixon Poll had shown Barnes ahead 48 to 39 percent last month with a margin of error of plus or minus 4 points.

Final Result
52 to 45 percent Perdue

HOW ACCURATE?
Poll gave Barnes 9 points he lost by 7

POST POLL SWING:
16 points towards Republican Party


edit:
Links from the WayBackMachine on the original articles
http://www.coxnews.com/newsservice/stories/2002/1107-POLL.html">Cox News Poll

The USA Today link is still valid.

[Stevepol]

30. So you've got the EXACT numbers, but how different are they from mine?

You have Barnes losing in a 16-point swing. That's what I said. You have Cleland losing by a 12 point swing. I said 13 points. I'm not a computer. The figures I quote I've read in a number of places. At most I'm off a percentage point or two. That wd mean the probability of this happening by chance would perhaps be 1 in 15 trillion rather than 1 in 15 zillion. Now don't quote those percentages because I haven't run a regression analysis.

What are you trying to prove? Your figures are just as damning as mine.

[Boredtodeath]

31. Umm, READ your post.

Hint, Barnes didn't WIN.

[ISUGRADIA]

32. Polls before an election are just a snapshot in times as any

pollster will tell you. One cannot ever say there is a 1 in 15 trillion or whatever probability because the sample is not THAT OF THOSE VOTING ON ELECTION DAY. At most a poll can denote a discernable trend such as the rising challenge to Cleland. Chamblis peaked at the right time. African American turnout was lower than previous elections when Dems won 96, 98.

The Dem decline in GA was obvious in the 90s. In the 90, 94, and 98 gov elections the most a Dem won by was 53% so there was a strong GOP vote. Wyche Fowler lost in 92 for the Senate and Max Cleland won with less than 50% in 96. Recent events are no big surprise.

[LisaL]

33. Do use your common sense, will ya?

You have a republican company making electronic voting machines that "count votes" without any receipts. The CEO of this company promised to deliver OH's votes to Bush. And you say we are supposed to believe the results on those machines? Get a clue!

[ISUGRADIA]

34. Yeah, ignore any history of Senate and House races

from the 1990s and previous House and Senate races that show Republican gains in the state. The Dems have been in decline there before any Diebold touchscreens. You get a clue.

[rigel99]

38. WHY DON'T YOU DO SOMETHING

effective. Why don't you send out 159 Open Records act requests, why don't you lose your job because of the time / money and effort of fighting for your democracy, and create powerpoints at 2am in the morning and make every effort to make them correct, but be so damn tired some of the details sometimes get lost...\

why don't you do something instead of slamming the people who have the ONLY LEGAL CASE LEFT TO FIGHT FRAUD in Georgia...

hmmmm. why don't you stop being an armchair activist? get out there and do something... and then you can criticize GA and our efforts... I assure you when I hold my press conference, I will have lawyers of the best Atlanta lawfirms, I will have national organizations giving me full support, I will have legislative supporters and a thousands of citizens saying WE WONT' STAND FOR THIS.. tinfoil bedamned, we are gathering the evidence to debunk any such theories... why don't you help us gather some of this data in your state!!! every state has fraud, it's as simple as writing an open records requets to get the data.. just do it!

[Boredtodeath]

41. You have no clue what I'm doing OR what I have done

So why don't you stop blaming others because YOU were ineffective and lazy until now?

You have a single purpose here and it is clear for all to see.

You sow dissention, make unproven statements you can't stand behind, attack people who have been working their ass off for 2 years on this issue and generally, make an ass of yourself when your "facts" are disproven as incorrect.

So, why don't you take a chill pill and try to get some WORK done?

[rigel99]

43. http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/articles/0128-georgia.pdf

http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/articles/0128-georgia.pdf
http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/articles/0128-georgia.pdf
http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/articles/0128-georgia.pdf
http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/articles/0128-georgia.pdf
http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/articles/0128-georgia.pdf
http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/articles/0128-georgia.pdf
http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/articles/0128-georgia.pdf
http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/articles/0128-georgia.pdf
http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/articles/0128-georgia.pdf
http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/articles/0128-georgia.pdf
http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/articles/0128-georgia.pdf
http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/articles/0128-georgia.pdf
http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/articles/0128-georgia.pdf
http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/articles/0128-georgia.pdf
http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/articles/0128-georgia.pdf
http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/articles/0128-georgia.pdf
http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/articles/0128-georgia.pdf
http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/articles/0128-georgia.pdf

I don't need to work anymore.. all the work has been done, I just need to get this information in the public and before lawyers/judges.. that's all she wrote.....

[Boredtodeath]

44. ROFL

I wouldn't ask my dog to carry that document to the trash.

[rigel99]

37. Appreciate your Post and VERY GOOD HISTORY Stevepol

You hit the nail right on the head.. now go tell Andy Stevenson get an amendment added to Ensign's bill calling for the COUNTING of paper ballots.

He's gotten huge support on this board for 'legitimizing Diebold' and diebold like voting machines.. we have to DECERTIFY and DISCREDIT DRE machines because there cannot be a 'better software' system.. software is inherently buggy and inherently will find room for fraud, period.. it has to be counting the paper...

[4democracy]

52. As a fellow southerner, I applaud your efforts, I am sure you had made

mistakes, because you are not a machine. Of course as we all know, machines NEVER make mistakes.:argh:
I thought you seemed very willing to take criticism and make corrections where needed. So thanks for all you are doing.