IF John Kerry came out tonight and said "I WANT A RECOUNT!"

[mzmolly]

Don't you think the RW would fight it every step of the way?

Right now it's happening under the radar, and that's how we want it!

We've got 6 members of the house and the FBI looking into this.

Be Patient DU-ers, if fraud did occur (and I believe it did) we have to tread carefully.

John Kerry is playing this cool as he should.

Flame away. :hi:

EVERYBODY READ POST #29.

* JK and JE were both attorneys and prepared for the possibility of fraud, they said so. I think we need to be patient here. This has to play out verrrry carefully.

[LisaL]

1. Recounts aren't happening under the radar, sorry.

[eleonora]

6. there can't be a recount anyway

Where's the paper trail? Fuck recounts. 04 is lost but we can prove the machines aren't reliable/can be hacked.

[FullCountNotRecount]

16. There is a paper trail in NH. If there is fraud there

then we can delegitimize Bush as President at the least. Nader is calling for a recount in NH and the Libertarian is calling for one in Ohio. If we can look inside those tabulators and voting computers we will prove fraud and Kerry might pull it out. Better yet...Democracy will triumph.

[eleonora]

22. I can only hope you're right and we can prove fraud happened in NH

[hedda_foil]

41. There ARE paper trails!

We're talking about NH (all paper), the optical scan counties in FL (we made the touch screens too hot too handle so they scammed the op-scans instead and they use paper!), and most of the hot spots in Ohio do NOT use paperless touch-screen voting.

This can be done!

[tinrobot]

52. Florida Optical...

First place to go.

Quarrantine the ballots and the Diebold GEMS systems.

Count by hand. I think you'll find some huge discrepancies.

Have Bev Harris show people the back door in the GEMS systems.

[emulatorloo]

Ohio hasn't been counted yet - Can't be recounted until it is counted

the first time. . .

Provisional ballots not counted until Nov 11

[mzmolly]

9. Not yet, the process is starting however.

And investigation is being pursued by members of the house ...

[99Pancakes]

46. Write to Senator Kerry at

http://kerry.senate.gov/bandwidth/contact/email.html

He will be returning to his Senator job and thus reading his e-mail.
:donut:
Back to work....
Rise and shine, Kerry-ites!

[d_b]

2. woohoo!

:headbang:

[eleonora]

3. at least somebody else with common sense

I agree 100%.

[emulatorloo]

4. no flames from me EOM

[alittlelark]

5. I am still hopeful that a rabbit will pop out of the hat.

If not, we will be able to expose the voter fraud before the repugs get a 2006 supermajority.

[lightbulb]

34. Michael Ruppert might don some rabbit ears

When he goes to Washington to publicize his new book Crossing the Rubicon, which is currently a top seller on Amazon. It accuses several Bush admin officials of multiple counts of 1st degree murder on 9/11, among other things.

This guy has all the subtlety of a pit bull and the mind of a scholar. I really believe he has the potential to open floodgates inside the beltway.

[knowbody0]

7. you do not need recount if fraud is proven

i agree with you

[LisaL]

How are you going to prove fraud without a recont?

[mzmolly]

17. You have a formal investigation.

Which is the direction this is taking.

In Florida they used optiscan machines in many precincts which means there is a paper trail.

The process is a different one, but we need to do it quickly. I hope the Secretary of State is barred from certification until any such investigation is complete.

[LisaL]

19. Those will take years.

I don't think anybody is jumping on any investigations now.

[mzmolly]

25. John Conyers and 5 other members of the House have requested one.

Watch the rerun of Olbermann tonight on MSNBC.

[mzmolly]

33. See post #29!

You'll get a better idea of how this is proceeding.

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

8. First of all , it would shock them .

While Turdblossom Karl Rove is prancing around the television circuit smiling happy , I am sure he is going to and is already to put a stop on anything related to a recount .

But John Kerry has been very quiet . He has not been seen since Wednesday . I wonder what is actually going on . If nothing is going on its safe to say they have retreated and surrendered .

[shraby]

14. There IS a paper trail for the areas where

the vote count is the most off. They are the opti-scan machines. I would think if they find fraud in some machines, the government would be obligated to recount every place there are those kinds of machines all over the country. If a few were hacked in one state, many more could have been.

[mzmolly]

18. Exactly, we find it in one place and the house of cards comes tumbling

dowwwwwn.

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

24. Well they can start here in North Carolina ...

The numbers here are off the wall suspicious .

[clover]

10. i hope you are right!!!!!!i could use a good night's sleep.(nt)

[dave502d]

11. You might be right.n/t

[peacetalksforall]

12. We need state AG's also. Hope they are involved.

[Jersey Devil]

13. Having a few days to allow my anger & frustration to wear off

I think you may be right and probably owe you and Sen Kerry a big apology considering my long rant the other day. I fully realized this today after hearing how careful Al Franken was about outright calling it "fraud" (he was, after all, a campaign spokesman of sort and appeared for Kerry at least a few times) and then when I saw how cagey and careful John Conyers was on Olbermann.

There are lots of us who reacted in knee jerk fashion due to the solid wall of stress we hit as the results began to sink in.

[mzmolly]

15. Understood, and you owe me nothing.

:hi:

Unless of course I apologize to about 100 people here on DU myself, and I haven't got the time. ;)

PS I apologize for jumping to conclusions about your post. I understand your anger, as I felt it myself.

[AgadorSparticus]

28. I oscillate between wanting to believe that something is being done

(it just doesn't make sense otherwise) and feeling duped by my party and candidate. I have no doubt there is voting fraud. I do have doubts that my party and candidate have my back. I guess I'll know soon enough...

[txindy]

37. Jersey Devil, if it helps any

I had a great, stress-relieving, very cathartic fit on November 3rd right after the concession. Lasted an entire day, too. Oops. LOL! Then, like you, I started looking around at all that was going on and, by the next day, I was realizing this may turn out to be one rather brilliant strategy by Senator Kerry. (I sure hope I'm right! ;) )

Your observation today was spot-on: If we ramp up the rhetoric now to include "fraud" or other like allegations, we can't go back. This calm atmosphere right now is ideal for investigating and then getting this info. to the public. IMHO, anyway.

It's only the 6th day after the election, cut yourself some slack. Trust me. Been there, done that! :toast: :hug:

[Old and In the Way]

20. Kerry's got all the time in the world.

The world ends on the day the votes get certified.

[mzmolly]

23. I hope an investigation will prevent certification ?

At least until it's over.

[LisaL]

26. Well, I sure don't think so.

I presume, an investigation, if any, could take a long time.
And certifications will be done pretty soon in all states.
I don't think the investigation will even start by that time.

[mzmolly]

27. We don't have a precident, but I assure you that an investigation will

begin before certification.

However, if fraud occurs I don't know that the "certification" is legit?

Call Rep Conyers with your concerns.

[Old and In the Way]

44. How long it plays out may be a function of the evidence they have.

But the key is to signal your intent to fight before it is certified, I think. If they choose to certify a disputed election, Bush will get two astericks behind his name.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

30. No

It ends on December 13, when the electors meet to cast their electoral votes.

[txindy]

21. Exactly

Thank you. :hi:

It's proceeding just as it should, right now. The counts are continuing in various states. Ohio will proceed to count the prov. and absentee ballots on the 11th. But what I find most heartening of all is this: NO media circus a la Florida 2000. If we find something in NH, we can take hard evidence forward to advance a further investigation. Then, I guarantee, there will be a feeding frenzy in the media. Now, however, it's so nice and calm. B-)

[OldLeftieLawyer]

29. STOP!!!!

Stop thinking in terms of "recount."

That's not the priority here.

The priority must be "fraud."

If Kerry's people can put together enough evidence of fraud to meet the legal standard, they could make motions for injunctions against the electors meeting on December 13, and stop the whole election process.

Then, they could get to the recount issue.

Legally, this is plausible and possible, and, if you read the Constitution, precisely what the framers had in mind when they came up with the concept of the electoral college.

I used to teach Con Law in law school. This is a really exciting prospect. And, the only way to approach it would be on a very stealthy basis.

I sure hope I'm right.

It's not over until December 13, folks, when the electors meet to cast their votes.

[mzmolly]

31. WE AGREE!

:hi:

Thanks for the information, it seems like this is how things are playing out.

Facinating information, I think you just confirmed my theory!

[mzmolly]

35. Would you start a thread with this information. It's very valuable and I

think your on to something here. :hi:

[OldLeftieLawyer]

40. This is embarrassing

But I'm kind of new here, and I don't know how to start a thread.

Feel free, though, to cut and copy what I posted here and start one yourself. If you'd let me know via PM, I'd appreciate it.

[mzmolly]

42. Here's how:

1. Click on the topic in this case "Presidential Results and Discussion"

2. then click on "POST" see the pencil/pad icon at the top.

3. Then type in your subject ie. 'STOP TALKING RECOUNT' OR ???

4. Type the body of your message.

I think you'll do a better job of explaining the ins and outs, I'll wait to see how it goes for you. :hi:

Or try clicking here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=203

[gauguin57]

45. But if a Florida recount shows what we know it will show ...

... that Kerry won the state ... then ... he can still present evidence of fraud later. And he might have Florida in his column, while Bush doesn't!

[dljordan]

32. Recount

I've been reading news of the Ohio voter counts that state that there are many counties with votes over the number of registered voters... In the thousands. Sorry but I can't remember where I read it.

[99Pancakes]

36. I think you may be on the right track

Good thoughts!

[Straight Shooter]

38. I hope the evidence discloses undeniable proof of vote tampering

I want the public to understand the gravity of what we're dealing with here. I want them to think, how long has this been going on?

I want the public to snap out of their Twilight Zone world and step into the world of the reality-based. To this end, the seeds of doubt are now being sown.

Once bush has been touched with the stench of voting fraud, his legacy will haunt him and the bush family forever. It goes all the way up to the highest levels of the GOP. That is why it is so very necessary to move slowly, carefully, and surely, that we leave no stone unturned. We cannot make a move until we have them dead to rights.

Think of a Rottweiler. They are known to silently wait in the dark, watching an intruder go about his crime. Just when the thief thinks he's about to get away with it, he hears a low, menacing, heart-stopping growl.

[mzmolly]

39. A-MEN!

:toast:

[City Lights]

43. You just brought a huge smile to my face.

:D

I hope you are right!

[Dem2theMax]

47. I've said this on more than one post. Wish I had bookmarked it.

Here is what I think. Kerry/Edwards are very much involved with what is going on right now -- BEHIND the scenes. We need to get the media to pay attention to VOTER FRAUD.

As I asked in a previous post, 'what do the repukes always do when someone points a finger at them?' They find a distraction. If Kerry were to come out now, they'd be pointing fingers at HIM, yelling about how 'Kerry is trying to steal the election.' And the White House controlled media would pay attention to ?? - 'Kerry stealing the election.' They wouldn't do a single thing about reporting on voter fraud. Kerry HAS to stay out of the light right now. The story has to be about voter fraud, not Kerry. And the more stories we have the better. The repukes can't pull off THAT many distractions.

Secondly, something I thought about after hearing KKKarl on the political shows on Sunday. What could be better than giving Rove/*/gang the chance to brag about what they plan on doing in the future? What could be better than * speaking last week and hearing him be so blatantly arrogant? What could be better than hearing that Iran is next? The 'draft' word is being used more and more. What could be better than hearing that MOST of the world is AGAINST *? I think this can help Kerry as well.

Maybe, just maybe, this is going to make people who voted for * think about what they have done. They voted their 'values/morals' :puke: and look what it got them. Another war. A draft. An arrogant idiot who thinks he's on a throne. And hundreds and probably thousands of more bloody, dead bodies in Iraq. And if it does make them think, so much the better for us when the voter fraud story finally hits home.
Maybe a lot of those Americans who voted for * would now be happy to see Kerry take his rightful place. It would sure help us in turning this thing around if we have * voters going against him after a few short weeks. I really think Kerry/Edwards have thought this through and I think they are giving * just enough rope to hang himself in the court of public opinion.

I think John Kerry knows exactly what he is doing. He didn't give a concession speech to give up. He did it to SHUT UP the repukes. If they were yelling, we'd NEVER hear about Black Box Voter fraud.

All's quiet folks. It's OUR turn to yell. :bounce:

[txindy]

48. As far as I'm concerned, you can say this in EVERY thread

Because I think you're exactly right. And you say it very well.

We have the calm to work in right now. Rove is busy and the repubs are celebrating. Now is when we gather what we need. We've seen them bend a story straight into the ground when it hits the media. We need concrete evidence before the media tsunami hits and the truth drowns.

[mzmolly]

49. I think he conceeded because the loss was overwhelming, but ...

he must have had questions. After examining the same information that we are, I am certain they smell a rat and, I think they are probably in contact with Conyers and some of the others who are all playing this real cool like.

Excellent post!

[demokatgurrl]

50. Don't we have to complete a COUNT first??? n/t

[robbedvoter]

51. Bingo! Thanks for keeping a cool head on you.

Famous last words
...and I promise you, this election, every vote will be counted
John Edwards, election night