N.C. legislative panel proposes requiring paper ballot

[Wilms]

Wilmington Star-News
Last updated: February 09. 2005 5:24PM

N.C. legislative panel proposes requiring paper ballot

By GARY D. ROBERTSON
Associated Press Writer

A divided legislative panel agreed Wednesday that every vote cast in North Carolina should generate a paper ballot starting next year, an attempt to avoid a repeat of 4,438 votes lost due to machine error in Carteret County last fall.

A committee of lawmakers, computer experts and election officials recommended requiring that all voting machines generate paper backups. They also want to restrict what kinds of voting machines counties my use.

The proposals would have to be approved by the full General Assembly to become law.

-snip-

Massachusetts Institute of Technology professor Ted Selker said Wednesday that paper receipts generated from electronic machines also had pitfalls. When used in Nevada last year, Selker said about one out of every 20 machines experienced a jammed printer.

-snip/more-

<http://www.votersunite.org/article.asp?id=4828>

edited to change link to archived version

[globalvillage]

1. A paper trail and a receipt

At the grocery store, I get a receipt for my choices. And there, I'm just buying a bunch of crap (not literally). I want a receipt before the curtain opens that tells me when I pulled the lever for my candidate, that my vote was cast for that person. Of course, that could be manipulated too, but it would be more difficult.
How about a receipt with a random number, and have the numbers published with the result?
This is just off the top of my head, so there may be some flaws in my logic. I still want a receipt.

[SaveAmerica]

3. I think that every time I go to the bank and see the Diebold machines

everywhere.

[Wilms]

5. Can't let voter walk off with reciept.

They could use it to "sell" their vote.

What you want (IMHO) is a "Paper Ballot" that YOU verify, before dropping it in the box.

[globalvillage]

7. Hmmm....

Good point, but how do I know the paper will be counted? I worked the polls this year, there is not enough oversight. It's conceivable I could have thrown away handfuls of paper ballots (if there were paper ballots). Even in a blue state, we didn't have enough Dem poll watchers.
There has to be an answer. How can a receipt be anonymous so it's not possible to sell it?
BTW, not totally sure I'm on the right track, just throwing out ideas.

[Wilms]

8. Agreed.

In some places you would stick the ballot into a scanner.

In others, your even more at mercy.

So that you know, TIA's work (look for it on DU, TruthIsAll), shoes the least descrepency between the Exit Poll and the official tally.

[SaveAmerica]

2. That link isn't opening

I'm just praying this all can be resolved (machine type, paper ballot, laws, everything) before 2006, that's not too much to ask, is it? ;-) That's an excellent start. I'll check for an article in the Charlotte Observer, too.

[Wilms]

4. Link changed. n/t

[SaveAmerica]

6. Thanks, I have a new hero, this is my favorite quote from the article:

"Politically, I think I will always support a paper ballot," said state Sen. Ellie Kinnaird, D-Orange, a co-chairwoman of the committee. "Right now, I'm hearing that voters don't have confidence in the system."

Kinnaird is hearing the voters. Think I'll pack up and leave my red county behind.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

9. NC bill will include these proposals

*Note* We don't have a bill number yet, stay tuned at www.ncvoter.net

The bill should include these proposals, which we hope do not get chopped out when going through various committees.

The most outspoken opponents of VVPB in North Carolina are:
Bob Cordle, member of NC Board of Elections
Roger Knight, committee member and serves as atty for NCBOE at times.
George Gilbert, Director of Elections of Guilford County NC.


Basic proposals agreed upon by the commitee:

1. Voter verified paper ballots as the official record in case of audit or recount.
*This is the most important, the reason this group was formed. Gerry Cohen described this as the back-end protection of our votes.
(some committee members such as Mr. Cordle saw no need for this, but did not oppose it)

2. Allow state officials and political parties to review the computer source code for electronic machines to evaluate their security. (Gerry Cohen described this as the "front-end" protection of our votes.)
* David Allen also asked that the bill also require the code for all electronic ballots be reviewed. - (Believe it or not, one committee member stated that open source code was not necessary at all, in his opinion)

3. Audits by random sampling. I was not sure by the end of the meeting as to how they were going to determine the criteria. It sounded as if there would be manditory audits, but not necessarily of all contests or all precinct.

[Wilms]

10. Re: "The most outspoken opponents of VVPB in North Carolina "

What are their concerns?

[BeFree]

11. Ya know, I'm a paper/hand kinda guy

But the ignorant masses think that if they get a receipt, like from their ATM, everything is hunky-dory.

So... let's talk this up like that's all we want - we want at least as good as what the ATM gives.

If the sheepies rise up, and demand a receipt, at least they will be in motion and the politicos will have to react and try to explain it all away.

We end up with something, at least, something on paper and a whole lot more than the vapor votes we have now.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

12. It is not a receipt, that is the media misunderstanding it

We hope to discourage the use of DREs.
The paper is verified by the voter to see if it represents their vote, is then put in the ballot box, and is used for mandatory random audits and for recount purposes.

True, there will be problems.

But, with paper backup, at least there is some proof for a change.

If we just sit on our hands, we would end up with all paperless voting machines, because that is what the NC BOE wants, as per The Election Center, et al (Diebold, ES&S and Sequoia).

Without the paper ballot, it is harder to prove that the machines are malfunctioning.

I would rather have proof.

At least this law will preserve the right of counties to continue to use hand counted paper ballots, as do 3 counties, and others can adopt it if they wish.

It was very hard to get to this point, and it is a step forward.

We don't want to end up like Georgia and South Carolina, 100% paperless.

[BeFree]

13. Let me try this again

We, the informed and educated, know what needs to be done. It is those who are unbeknowest who we have to reach, and in reaching, motivate them to action.

Surely we can easily reach them with the ATM analogy and in so doing set them loose upon the lawmakers, who will then be forced to educate and inform. As the rest of humanity becomes educated, they too will see the ultimate wisdom in paper/hand.

Just another angle.

Thanks for your efforts, Will. I'm with ya. NC will be better this next election.