North Carolina verified voting bills in senate and house

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

NC Senate introduces VVPB bill, SB 223 - companion to HB 238
We have a senate bill number now! It is S 223.

Our website, NC Voter's alert page has been updated.
Revised messages and a template for a resolution in favor of the bills is also there at
(http://www.ncvoter.net/alerts.html )

Please attend your local precinct meetings and ask your
precinct to endorse a resolution in favor of the
verified voting bills,HB 238 and SB 223

Link to S 223
(http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/BillLookUp/BillLookUp.pl?Session=2005&BillID=s223)

Although the electronic copy shown in the link only includes two
sponsors, in fact there are a total of 37 Senate sponsors currently
out of the 50 Senators. The other names will appear online late
Monday night or early Tuesday morning after the bill is referred to
committee Monday night.

Fellow activists, it took you guys to make this happen.

[Wilms]

1. Cool.

Could I trouble you for a bill summary?

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

2. NC senate bill 233 text for verified voting

The senate bill S233 was just posted today, doesn't have the text, but is identical to the House bill H238. too much to post, see the link.

Text of the bill here:
http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2005/Bills/House/HTML/H238v1.html

More info at our website on this page:
http://www.ncvoter.net/alerts.html

I know it isn't perfect, but it is what we ended up with.
I had hoped we would ban DREs but it didn't.

Now we have to fight to keep it from being gutted.

Our State Board of Elections does not want VVPB.
They would rather put video cameras in the polling booth.
(I am NOT kidding!).

[loudsue]

3. I'm in N.C., too, WYVBC!! We need to start protests & riots outside of

the legislative bldg. until our congresscritters finally GET IT! And the SBofE needs to be taken over by activists. Angry activists.

The N.C. election was one of the biggest messes in the whole country in November, but in our traditionally low-key way, it all went under the national radar.

I will NEVER believe that Burr really beat Bowles.
I will NEVER believe Kerry/Edwards didn't take North Carolina.

I live in a red neck rural area, and I have friends & inlaws in all kinds of red neck places. VERY few people were voting for bush. Only the fundiest fundies, and the most die-hard skinhead dummies, who can't even weave a logical sentence together, were voting for bush.

90% of the Nascar Nation were saying they'd had enough of bush, even though Junior (Dale Junior, that is) was stumping for bush.

:kick::kick::kick:

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

12. Call or email your representatives

I have found that most of them know very little about this issue.

I even spoke with Britt Cobb on the phone before he conceded, and he really didn't know how voting machines transmitted their votes to a central tabulator etc.

Voting machine companies and lazy election officials take advantage of the seemingly complex nature of their business to pull the wool over our eyes.

There is an action alert with contact information at our
website, www.ncvoter.net and we also have a yahoo group,
warning the yahoo group has a few crackpots in it
(including myself). Join button on our website.

We get a few strange posts, but also some valuable ones.

Verified Voting is setting up a nice automated action
page on their website just for NC soon.

Hope to see it Monday or Tuesday.
They are really behind us.

[Wilms]

4. Thanks

So it looks like DRE's with a Mandatory Audit, paper becomes supreme if there is a discrepancy.

Not unlike Holt.

So next...switch off the DRE function, and use the machines as "TouchScreen Ballot Markers-only".

At which point, why have tabulators?

[marions ghost]

5. difference with Holt

the NC bill (so far) uses the term "ballot"--see 1st page Section 1. "...each DRE shall generate a paper ballot which can be verified by the voter before the vote is cast." The Holt bill uses the term paper "record."

It would be interesting to see what in NC constitutes a paper "ballot" --to see if this would look the same as a paper ballot counted by opti-scan.

It still looks like DREs are OK in North Carolina. At least some effort seems to be in the works to correct the obviously disastrous system. How about this SBOE Director who wants to put video cameras on voters--talk about intimidation! The video cameras need to be on when the voters are NOT around.

[FogerRox]

6. NC voter rox Book marked ---DUDE !!1

[Wilms]

7. Should we call Holt and get his side of that story?

I can make sense out of his use of the term. But I don't feel ABSOLUTELY sure. And I understand the misgivings expressed, if not the actual expressions used.

On top of all the debate, there is a terminology problem bogging everything down.

The one that bugs me is when I see a Touch Screen being assumed to only mean a DRE. "TouchScreen Ballot Markers" aren't DRE's.

I thought that video camera idea went away. The report I read said it would just frame the voters hands/ballot, not their face. Didn't seem scary to me...just a pointless, ill-thought out, if well intentioned idea.

[marions ghost]

8. Good Idea...

I think it's a good idea to go directly to the source--ie. to call Holt's office. We need to know how they see the paper "record" concept. I know that Andy and others have a problem with it not being called a ballot, and I feel also that it leaves it open for DREs. If you can make that call Wilms, go ahead. I am willing to do it, but don't feel I have a lot of background on the subject of DREs. I have always voted with paper ballot/optiscan and although I know there are still counting issues to address, I think it works well and I am very biased against DREs. With the exception of disabled access, touchscreens that print a "ballot" have no advantages--only more expense, more troubles, more vulnerability to tampering, etc. No business or corporation would accept this ridiculous system, why should greedy corporations be allowed to foist it on the voters?

Point blank questions, "Does the Holt bill allow for DREs? What does the Holt Bill mean by the words "paper record?"

As for the question about TouchScreen "ballot markers," I find that idea very confusing, as I have not seen one and can't imagine what possible advantage it is to have such a device. Maybe you could ask the Holt office their exact definition of a DRE.

NC Voter.net mentions the guy who wants the video cameras, especially to monitor early voting. I don't think it's been decided yet--bad precedent if they get that through. I see it as a gratuitous monkey wrench, making local elections even more difficult. Waste of time and money, and potential for intimidation and discouragement of early voting. Don't need it if the counting is fair. Put the video cameras on the counting.

I think it's important to question and object to these things, not just to say well, it's harmless, let them have it, what can it hurt?
Nah, I think that's the way we've ended up with a lot of things we don't like.

[Wilms]

9. OK, I'll call Holt about the "record"

I tell you right now, though, his bill DOES allow DRE's. They must print a VV paper ballot (or an electronic ballot for those who need it due with a disability-hence our frowns), and there is a mandatory audit of the DRE's.

Not that many give a damn, but DRE's DO provide advantages from the point of view of some (not all) BoE's.

1. It's much easier to create the "ballot template".

2. It's much easier to administer the election in multiple languages.

3. The disabilities issue (as you noted) is easier to deal with.

4. And it's easier to tally (and manipulate) the vote.


A "non-DRE" "Touch Screen Ballot Marker" can satisfy 1-3 above (and , I think, satisfy our security concerns). The Auto-Mark is one of a few examples of a "Touch Screen Ballot Marker". It is also disabilities enabled.

I like the idea of video-taping the counts. In fact, there is a video of some activity involved with the Ohio recount that is part of the evidence alledging fraud.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

10. NC Election Chief and Video Cameras - 1/3 of voters would be on camera

Alot going on, but this video camera thing would affect 1.3 million voters. I don't trust our State Board of Elections with video cameras.

They already tie the voter to the ballot for early voting.

I will never participate in early voting.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

11. word Ballot thanks to Voters Unite help

One of the co-chairs who helped get the house bill introduced asked me for a good way to deal with defining "ballot".

Ellen Theisen of www.VotersUnite.org gave me the wording, and I
passed it along.

I wish Ellen could have written all of our legislation.

[marions ghost]

13. yes she did a great job

on that "Mythbreakers" compilation.

How was "ballot" defined?