More DRE vs. Op Scan Stuff

[Bill Bored]

I support New Yorkers for Verified Voting 100% but I just got around to reading this excellent and informative page entitled "Advantages of Paper Ballot/Precinct Based Optical Scan Voting Systems Over Electronic Touch Screen Voting Machines."

<http://www.nyvv.org/paperballotVsDRE.htm>

There are a lot of good points here which I hadn't thought of, and despite the potential to hack the optical scanners, they are so much more secure than DREs there is no comparison.

Keep in mind that these are precinct count optical scanners, and not central count. With the latter, the ballots are not checked for errors before they are counted.

I especially liked the part about the test decks and how they can be run through the machine multiple times to count large numbers of test votes and verify the scanner's logic and accuracy. This solves the problem of how to produce an appropriate test deck. The answer is you do it yourself by hand marking some ballots. Very cool.

[Melissa G]

1. kick for BB! nice find! n/t

[Wilms]

2. This quote jumped out at me.

"Indeed, many voters may never verify their VVPB for basic usability reasons. The VVPB is in a different format than the ballot, in a different place, is verified at a different time, and has a different graphical layout. These and other ergonomic factors will prevent many voters from actually verifying their machine printed ballot."

A DUer had that exact perception a month or so back when we were thrashing VVPAT, as inferior to VVPB.

Glad we ain't alone.

[Bill Bored]

3. I think it was Land Shark. nt

[ISUGRADIA]

4. FYI in Iowa testing of voting equipment is open to the public

in a county with tabulators a member of the public may request a test deck be marked in a certain way and then see it run through a tabulator to confirm its accuracy. And a public test of test decks marked by election officials is also run on each machine by county election officials.The test deck results become part of the records of the election.

[Bill Bored]

5. Sounds good but if the precinct totals are uploaded to central tabulators

the only tabulation at that point is in software. Can that be witnessed too, or are the precinct totals posted elsewhere for comparison?

[ISUGRADIA]

6. Here's the Iowa Admin Code with public testing info

http://www4.legis.state.ia.us/IAChtml/721.htm

takes a while to load the html, but scroll down to 721?22.41(52)

As to your question, are you refering to election night? If so, the tabulator in a precinct count county is closed out, results are printed, and then the results are uploaded via modem. So there should be a paper copy of results for each precinct _before_ any transmission. Anyone is legally able in Iowa to watch the "closing of the polls" and transcribe printed results as long as they do not interfere with the elction officials. Here in MN same process, but another copy of election results is posted on the wall of the precinct for public viewing.

[feelthebreeze]

7. Bo Lipari is doing excellent work

I feel more confident on a daily basis for the resolve that our state is showing. Keep the pressure and push on the state assembly. I have written a number of letters and faxes.
The response from those written to is optimistic and they seem open to persuasion. No outright embrace of DRE's or central tabulators. I think we might be getting through with the help of NYVV.

[ISUGRADIA]

8. DREs are the worst for another reason other than the manipulation potentia

the inconvenience to voters. They are expensive and it takes time to vote on them jamming up the lines. You only need one tabulator to service CHEAP voting booths. The booths all filled? People waiting? Election staff can bring out 10 more $50 voting booths to ease the logjam.

The lines backed up at the DREs? Counties cannot afford to have extra $3-5,000 units in reserve. Those voters are out of luck.

Good luck in NY

[Bill Bored]

9. Yes! I hope so breeze. Spread the word if there's still time left.

It would be nice not to have to lobby the BOE to use paper ballots if the law can spell it out.