New Yorkers! We got a paper ballot bill! PLEASE SUPPORT IT!

[Bill Bored]

NY State Assembly A6503. It has bi-partisan co-sponsorship too!

http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A06503&sh=t

What we need is for those of you in NY state to tell your State Senators to introduce a companion bill in the Senate and make it law!

Also write or call the HAVA Committee members listed on this page:

http://nyvv.org/actionConferenceCommitteeMembers.htm

and tell them to support this too. Note that Assemblyman Thiele (R) who sits on this committee is actually one of the authors of this bill!

Also contact:
The Speaker of the Assembly, Sheldon Silver (D),
The Senate Majority Leader, Joe Bruno (R)
and Governor Pataki (R) and tell THEM to support this too!

AND PLEASE SPREAD THIS AROUND!

[Wilms]

1. Bill, what about the other ones listed here.

New York

Assembly Bill 5
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A00005
An Act enacting the voting systems standards act of 2005; includes electronic display within the definition of ballot; implements a statewide uniform voting machine; establishes the election modernization fund; Help America Vote Act Bills
Sponsor: Rep. Wright
Status: passed Assembly, delivered to Senate

Assembly Bill 122
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A00122
An Act to provide for county board of elections control of voting machines and other functions relating to the election administration process. Help America Vote Act Bills
Sponsor: Rep. Wright
Status: passed Assembly, In-Committee (Senate Elections)

Assembly Bill 1089
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=A01089
Allows voting ballots to be presented via an electronic ballot form; provides the format of ballot frames may present either printed or electronic presentations of candidates for the purpose of voting on a voting machine and does not require such ballot frames to present all candidates together on a single ballot frame; and requires voting machines contain certain visual devices; provides that machines must indicate which offices and propositions have been voted for and which have not.
Sponsor: Stringer, et. al.
Status: referred to election law

Senate Bill 1809
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=S01809
An Act prohibiting the use of punch card ballots after November 1, 2006; providing for the certification of voting machines by the state board of elections; requiring such systems to produce and retain a voter-verified permanent record.
Sponsor: Sen. Flanagan
Status: passed Senate In-Committee (House Election Law)

Senate Bill 1669
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?bn=S01669
Requires any voting machine or system authorized within this state at which public or party officers are to be nominated or elected to produce a voter-verified paper record suitable for a manual audit or superior to that of a paper ballot box system; requires such voter-verification system to provide the voter with an opportunity to correct any error made before the permanent record is preserved for use in any manual audit; and requires such voter-verification system to meet certain standards for disability access; requires disclosure of software use.
Sponsor: KRUEGER
Status: 02/01/2005 REFERRED TO ELECTIONS

[Bill Bored]

9. What about them?

If we can't get paper ballots, we will NEVER get hand counting or even Optical Scanning, or even a voter-verified paper ballot.

IMHO, this is the bill to support, if it's not too late.

Otherwise it will be necessary to fight for this with the BOE or the individual counties. And we will be fighting lobbyists.

We will be sitting here in 2006 or 2008 wondering if the election was stolen and why 31 electoral votes were even close to being in play. Of course there will be some poli-sci-based explanation for it all like who can and can't get married or what color your favorite stripe on the flag should be, and that will explain away everything just like in 2002 and 2004.

Forget those bills. If this one is passed, they will probably have to be rewritten anyway.

The issue is whether or not to allow DREs and the answer should be NO! This bill comes closest to providing that answer for NY.

[Wilms]

12. What do mean, "what do you mean?"?

I thought you might give me a thumb-nail sketch of the differences between 6503 and the other VVPAT Legislation.

Also, I'm scratching my head that 6503 doesn't show up in any of the VVPAT Legislation Databases I've seen (some of which are being relied on by a few big organizations). So I'll pass that along.

Was it through VVNY that you learned of this bill?

[Bill Bored]

16. Yes NYVV. A6503 was not introduced until March 15!

The other bills, particularly A0005, allow both DREs w/VVPATs AND paper ballots with Op Scans. A0005 actually REQUIRES one DRE per polling place to satisfy the access requirement for the disabled.

A6503 says paper ballots w/Op Scans statewide, precinct count, w/accessible ballot marking devices for the disabled. In other words, it seems that it would ban DREs. What a cool idea!

Now of all these bills A0005 and A122 and S1809 are the only bills that have actually passed their respective houses, while A6503 is in Committee. But the fact that a HAVA (Joint) Committee member wrote it is a good sign, IMO.

The Senate bill S1809 is a bit vague, but says the DRE must have a VVPAT and has the same 3% MMRA requirement as A0005. These two bills require disclosure of software held in escrow, but only in the event of a contest of election, and they both require the paper to be the ballot of record only if a full manual recount is performed, unless a DRE breaks down or something. A0005 is much more specific in its DRE requirements, some of which are on the right track such as no data transmission during the election, but are also not totally satisfactory since it's almost impossible to completely test or secure DREs.

Since A0005 and S1809 have already passed, if A6503 and a companion Senate bill are passed, there would probably have to be a new bill that resolves any conflicts, the main one being whether or not to allow DREs! This bill can probably be identical in both houses, drafted by the HAVA Committee which has 5 Senators and 5 Assembly Reps and is totally bi-partisan.

S1669 doesn't go into effect until 2008. Most of its provisions are already in A0005 anyway.

A1089 just allows e-ballots. Also not passed.

So the way I see it, if A6503 and a Senate version can be passed, DREs may be out, but we could push for the other desirable features of A0005 such as the random auditing, disclosure of the software, etc.

The main thing to do right now is therefore to support A6503 and get the Senate to come up with a companion!

As you can see, this is quite a process, but by not rushing it, we might be able to come close to getting it right and leave the door open for other improvements that would be difficult or impossible with DREs.

[Wilms]

18. That's very cool AND the first VVPB Legislation I've heard of.

Perhaps there are others somewhere, but most seem to be VVPAT.

Be interesting to know where the bill came from (so late, and all).

Thanks for the Teach-In, Bill.

Wilms

[Me.]

2. Done!

Wright's office said that as he is chairman of the election committee he is behind all voting reform, especially paper trails.

[Bill Bored]

8. NOT Paper Trails PAPER BALLOTS!

Call back and make that clear.

He must support this bill because it's the Paper Ballot bill.
The others may ALLOW paper ballots, but to my knowledge, this is the only one that actually says it's the way it will be - a statewide paper ballot voting system.

Wright's bill, A0005, allows this but also allows DREs.

[Wilms]

3. The Daily Star On-Line: Head of voting group discusses machines

http://www.thedailystar.com/news/stories/2005/04/13/vot6.html

[Bill Bored]

10. Yeah! Bo know votin' machines! nt

[Kip Humphrey]

4. A good start... But not enough!

Here are the facts:

Start with a paper ballot - good!

Scanning paper ballots "interprets" the voter's intent on the paper and "derives" a data record which is then tabulated or counted. Hence, the paper ballot is NOT counted; the interpreted and derived data record is counted, and is, therefore, the REAL ballot.

If New York adopts Diebold's GEMS software, for instance, the tabulated totals and data records are all subject to undetectable vote tampering.

PAPER BALLOTS - HAND COUNTED!

OR

A. Open the master vote database to public inspection and independent tabulation (No secret counting!)
B. Provide a means for voters to verify that their data record is correct (Show me my ballot that's counted!)
C. Provide a mechanism whereby voters can challenge and correct erroneous data records (stop programmed fraud in its tracks!)
D. Supply the public with total precinct-level vote "head counts" by counting up the number of paper ballots (prevent vote data record database stuffing)

[Ellipsis]

5. Well said.

Paper ballots, hand counted... all of it.

Simple common sense, easily embraceable by public opinion.

[FogerRox]

6. DRE's are the most expensive voting system available today

3 times more than the next cheapest: opscans--which still feed results into a tabulator- a PC.

A DRE can process at best 10 ballots/hr.

"GIve me freekin paper or give me death". by TOm Jefferson--er ah no it was ahhhhhhh Archie Bunker--yeah right-thats the guy.

[Amaryllis]

14. Not only that, they perform miserably. Break down, don't boot up, stop

when they shouldn't...read Myth Breakers. The list goes on and on. They are garbage.

[Wilms]

15. They are not only expensive to run.

They're also expensive to STORE!

[kster]

7. Agreed..........n/t

[Bill Bored]

11. The bill calls for precinct-count scanners.

The totals can be added up outside of GEMS.

The scanners will be set to reject under- or over- votes, giving the voter an opportunity to correct the ballots.

Still, it is not a panacea.

There are other concerns about Op Scans and GEMS.

The main advantage of this bill is that it's the only one that provides for paper ballots statewide. A DRE bill w/VVPAT has already been passed.

The mere fact that this is in the legislature at all is encouraging and we should rally around it.

[Kip Humphrey]

22. I agree, with BIG, LOUD, NOISY emphasis on PAPER BALLOTS!

Scanners could be useful for "proofing" the ballots (under/over votes), and for providing quick PRELIMINARY unofficial election night numbers, AS LONG AS THE PAPER BALLOTS ARE COUNTED to certify the count by the federal deadline. Anything less, and you either need the safeguards I specified (previous post above) or New York becomes a target for some future Blackwell-type RNC (Robotic Nazi Collaborator) goon.

[Wilms]

23. Perfect, limited, use of opscans.

Assist with VV. Provide preliminary results.

[truckin]

24. This is great!

Bill,
Excellent work. We are trying to get our legislators in CT to seriously consider OP Scan but they seem intent on DRE with VVPAT. Maybe if CT sees NY doing this CT will follow.

[Amaryllis]

13. kick! GO NY!

[Amaryllis]

17. Did you post this on NY forum?

[Bill Bored]

19. Is my name Bill Bored? nt

[Amaryllis]

21. :) Don't know if that's your real name or just your screen name. :)

[Wilms]

20. New Yorkers

;)