While I'm still not giving up on this election , now is the time

[Jasper 91]

To instigate changes to your whole electoral process . I am horrified that the world's most powerful democracy , is unable to hold a fair election that gives all Americans an equal right to vote and also confidence that their vote will , indeed , be counted for their candidate .

As the outcome of the Presidential Election affects all Americans , regardless of the state they live in , and given that there have been so many 'errors' in this election , it is therefore time to recognise that it MUST be ran on a federal level . Now before there is an outcry that each state has the right to be self-governing , I am not suggesting that those rights be usurped in any way , in fact they should still organise the elections for their state offices , as they see fit , note I say STATE OFFICES . The Presidential Election , should just be separated from the rest of their electoral process's . This does not have to be difficult , it just means giving the voter two ballots , one specifically for the Presidential Election and the other for all the other elections .

Now once it is agreed that the Presidential Election should be ran on a federal level , it is necessary to select the most simple and , more importantly , accurate method of voting . To me , this solution is glaringly obvious . You must go back to the paper ballot that is marked by a pen and counted by hand . ALL MACHINES should be taken completely out of the equation . It is not sufficient that you have a paper ballot that is read by machine , because machines can be manipulated . And even the argument that these optiscan machines and the like , should be used because you still have the paper ballot in the event of the need for a recount , is flawed . Honestly , how often are recounts performed ? NO , the only way , is to ensure that your vote has been counted the FIRST time .

Here in the UK we use the paper ballot . We mark a cross next to our candidate's name and place the ballot in a locked box . The whole process takes a matter of seconds and there are never any queues . The results , even though they are counted by hand , are ALWAYS in no later than early the next morning .

Low-tech is really the only way to go .

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jasper 91]

2. "We need to stop this silly obssession with vote counting"

Vote counting is all that matters . If the people come out and vote en masse , what is the point if their votes aren't accurately counted ?

[maythebestmanwin]

12. There is a limit to how much you can shade the results.

In an election where you have have razor thin margins, Voter sneaks can get away with all sorts of shenanigans.

However, if you pull off a FDR type of victory, you can't hide the results.

It's like a horse race. When the mounts are fairly matched, it might be possible to get away with some carefully calculated cheating.

But if you end up in a situation where Man O War is whupped by Eeyore, people will stand up and make a difference. Kerry may have had the actual numbers, but he did not have a huge enough lead to counteract any funny business. If we do our job the next two years, there won't be room to pull funny business

[Bridget Burke]

6. Welcome to DU & thanks for your opinion.

It will be given due consideration.

Kindly do not tell "us" what to do. We need more votes. And they need to be counted.

[maythebestmanwin]

13. sorry for the misperception...

I believe in one man one vote.

I certainly have no business telling you how to run your business.

However, from your tone, you seem to be someone who sets the direction in the Democratic party. If that is so, is there a way to sit down and talk with you (well, ok, it's a techno kind of era...Chat) about what the Democratic leadership could have done differently?

You are certainly right. I don't have the right to tell you what to do. I do however, believe that I have a right to my opinion, however stiff-necked that might be

[SmokingJacket]

7. Hahahahaha!

"OK the media is not always on our side. But right up till election day, they reported every fact as soon as we knew it."

Thanks for the early morning chuckle!

How do you know a fact if no one reports it??

[maythebestmanwin]

14. You might have more info than I do...

Is there some Bush pratfall that didn't get covered in some way?

Sure, I would have liked to see a through investigation of his National Guard, but at least they opened the door. After that, it is our job as activists to keep it opened.

I kindof thing the bloggers and netizens could have done more, but at least the media did a little bit.

[tngledwebb]

16. You are joking, no?

If you want to find out what the 'liberal media' didn't tell you about BushCo, and what they decided trot out on a daily basis about Gore, Dean, Kerry, read the Daily Howler for a few months. Then get back to us.

[On the Road]

9. And If You Get More Voters

will there be just enough Republican votes registered to win next time? You don't know because we don't know the extent of the fraud. How can fraud be unprovable if it hasn't been investigated?

[maythebestmanwin]

15. I didn't say not to investigate the fraud

Believe me, its being investigated.

But I think our job in the grassroots is to build our base for the next election. We got some pretty intelligent people out there following the paper trail, and they aren't helped by us butting in.

Go out and talk to your neighbors. Figure out together how you are going to get an unstoppable landslide in 2006

[On the Road]

18. It Will Only be Fully Investigated with the Full Support

of the Democratic base. Look what happened in Florida. Prima facie evidence of fraud in several cases, but nothing was done about it. Now is the time to get behind investigations, recounts, and prosecutions. Even if it does not overturn the election, the wave of publicity will put Republicans on the defensive and diminish the sense of mandate that Bush is trying to claim.

There are four more years to build the base. That's what was done this time and it fell short. If massive fraud was the reason this time, it will continue to fall short no matter how many Democrats go to the polls.

[Tace]

3. You're Right

[tll]

4. Low-Tech, exactly!

We still use paper ballots and pencils in my precinct. They are perfectly simple and you know exactly which candidate you're voting for. Though this year, I took particular paranoid care to fill my little ovals in and avoid leaving stray marks!

Accuracy trumps speed and convenience, especially when it comes to voting.

Despite the outcome, I want to see every vote counted and every claim of error or fraud investigated otherwise, at the very least,
we'll lose any ground we've gained getting new voters out. At the very worst? I shudder.

[sadiesworld]

8. "...I took particular paranoid care to fill my little ovals in..."

Me too! I'm sure I looked like an engrossed 4 year old crayon-wielder. :D

Welcome to DU :toast:

[Eric J in MN]

5. I agree. Public hand-counts, in the same room the voting was

done in.

Do the voting in a gym (lots of space) and let people stay to watch.

Transparent ballot-box to prevent stuffing before the election.

http://www.votersunite.org/

support hand-counts.

[PATRICK]

10. Well, that's easy

Just convince 90% of the press to get a clue and get with us, convince all the rewarded coup party electees to destroy themselves and bow, unswervingly, to the public pressure that MIGHT surface.

Of course it is a simple solution. The underlying problem is massively greater than sanity. The coup won't surrender its guns. Happens all the time. The people are ignorant. A hard truth here in what used to be a free republic.

[maythebestmanwin]

17. If that is true

You need to be much more covert. Do you think your identity is untraceable in this day and age?

More reasonablly, in a sane world, we are living in a democracy, and we the people still have power. If some powerful bigwigs finangled some power in the short run, If we all get together, we still win.

How do win? By getting some lawyer to present some deadly wicked lawsuit? No win by the democratic process. Yeah, it's a pain in the neck to have to wait for another 2 years, but lets see if they can pull off any monkey business with the eyes of a concerned populace on every voting place.

Heck, just to be sure, why don't the Democrats run a secondary polling place right by every "official" one. Lets not just relay on the statistical math of an exit poll. Lets offer a 1 to 1 comparison. Let them cheat past that!

Hey we can whup their sorry elephant ass in 2006

[Sparkly]

19. Yeah, people are going to stand in line TWICE

and there'll be 100% participation in a "secondary polling place."

You seem to be spamming that first post you have on this thread -- I think it's the third time I've seen it already.

If your sole purpose on DU is to tell people to stop trying for an accurate vote count in this election, to stop trying to expose and resolve the problems, I'm perplexed as to why.

[GreenPartyVoter]

11. Already on it! :^D Lots of folks are working to make sure their

towns and counties are safe to vote in. And many of us are going beyond that and trying to add other changes to the system, such ad publicly financed elections and ranked voting.

-----------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm