Kerry Wants A Mulligan

[MelissaB]

I don't know anything about Power Line, but I can tell it is conservative. Read the last two paragraphs carefully and tell me what you think it means. Surely I'm reading this wrong. Is this writer saying that he thinks the number of people who think the election was stolen will increase?

The most striking thing about this story to me was that Kerry and Dayton were simultaneously present on the Senate floor. Rumor has it that Kerry is so determined to run again in three years that he has resolved, after twenty years in the Senate, to begin actually performing his duties there.

Kerry won't be the Dems' nominee in '08. If last fall's election proved anything, it was that Kerry isn't a very good Presidential candidate. The Dems weren't in love with Kerry last year, but turned to him in a panic when Howard Dean imploded. Kerry is finished as a Presidential contender, I think, but he could perform one last valuable service. If he is really so determined to run again that he is angry about losing the endorsement of Mark Dayton, who is retiring next year and by 2008 won't be in a position to influence any voters outside his immediate family, Kerry might be fired up enough to go after Clinton hard during the primaries. That would make his candidacy worthwhile.

Orin's column concludes on this pathetic note:

Meanwhile, Kerry — and his outspoken wife Teresa Heinz Kerry — are increasingly claiming he was robbed last November and should have won.

On second thought, there might be method to Kerry's madness. Normally it would be a bad idea to base one's campaign on an appeal to voters who are delusional. But at the rate the Democrats are going, by 2008 that group could represent a majority of the party.

Link: http://powerlineblog.com/archives/010252.php

[Pacifist Patriot]

1. LOL! Oh there is nothing hidden about that point of view.

Well crafted insult though.

[MelissaB]

4. I know it's an insult, but are they saying

the delusion is growing because of the increasing number of people who believe our elections are screwed up? Am I reading too much in this?

[MelissaB]

5. Maybe the nuts are reading/listening to all of the work being done

on election reform and this is the way they are spinning it????

[Pacifist Patriot]

8. Exactly.

[Pacifist Patriot]

7. I think he is saying that Democrats are weak minded and...

willing to believe tinfoil hat theories once we hear about them. As the word spreads, more of us will fall right in line and become as delusional as he is. It's brilliant really. Set up the paradigm that belief in a stolen election can only be the product of a deranged mind and no one takes it seriously even if it is a belief held by a majority.

At least that's my take on it.

[FreedomAngel82]

34. Seems like it

Seems like Kerry could be working on election reform and they're trying to paint him as "mad" and a last resort canidate which I don't think is true. I was watching earlier this month/late last month the Iowa cacus dinner and Kerry was already winning in the polls they showed and they're trying to paint Kerry and us as well as "consperiacy theorists" and Kerry as an angry "mad man" who's "doing his job in the Senate." So they must be up to something (the democrats) and they're trying to get a head on the issue by framing them as nut consperiacy theorists who are sore losers.

[Nederland]

51. No

I believe they are saying that the size of the Democratic party is shrinking fast and will soon consist of nothing but far left nutjobs.

[Warpy]

10. ....And a great illustration of the phenomenon called "projection"

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

2. Powerline:

A synonym for "fecal". If they are breathing, they are lying.

[donco6]

3. Actually, they're just saying

more Dems will be delusional. Could be right, I guess.

[MelissaB]

6. Here is another article from the NY Post saying the same thing.

JEALOUS KERRY FUMES AS DEM BOOSTS HILL

April 23, 2005 -- WASHINGTON — A fuming John Kerry had "daggers in his eyes" after a fellow Democrat promoted Hillary Rodham Clinton for president — suggesting the 2004 loser is green with envy at a potential rival.
The flap was touched off two weeks ago when Clinton spoke at a Minneapolis Democratic dinner and Sen. Mark Dayton (D-Minn.) told the cheering crowd that he was introducing "the next great president of the United States."

Two days later, Kerry came over to Dayton on the Senate floor "with daggers in his eyes and said, 'What are you doing endorsing my 2008 presidential opponent?' . . . He was very serious," Dayton told the Minneapolis Star Tribune.

Meanwhile, Kerry — and his outspoken wife Teresa Heinz Kerry — are increasingly claiming he was robbed last November and should have won.

Link: http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/45050.htm

[candice]

31. We were all robbed in 2000 and 2004

...and as Rep. (California) Anna Escho just said in a town hall meeting regarding our current Congress, "Whatever industry wanted, industry got." She said it is time for public financing of campaigns. (She added that she is not against industry, just wants to do what is best for the people of this country).

For me, the crux of the election was in the Ohio recount. Had it been honest, I would have thought all of those people voted against their self interests because they were so afraid of gays and have low IQs, but the recount was so corrupt that I have no doubt who actually won Ohio.

[FreedomAngel82]

35. The republicans

are trying to claim that Hillary is going to run in 2008. I don't know where they got that idea. I bet you she won't. He must be on to something and/or about to do something so they're trying to paint him as the furious and jealous person so people will not think about what he's saying. I wonder what he's up to that has them so nervous.

[MelissaB]

9. ...and another

Heinz squeezes blame from pope

The Seattle Post-Intelligencer reported last month that Heinz blamed Kerry's inability to unseat President Bush on anything and everything but Kerry himself.

She implied votes might have been improperly tabulated because most optical scanning devices used to count votes in many parts of the country are owned by two "hard-right" Republicans.

>>>snip

Heinz recalls an election that might have been fixed, an election unduly influenced by a Catholic Church she apparently believes betrayed Kerry.


Link: http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/opinion/columnists/heyl/s_326763.html

[Botany]

11. a little late to the party John??????

Just look @ this story ......
one of thousands of "actions" that tipped the scales to bush .....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1232294

Gee, John do you think something was up?

Might want to see if water is wet or snow is cold too.

[MelissaB]

12. Thanks for the link.

I hadn't see this and will add it to the daily thread.

[MelissaB]

13. Crap!

I can't get the link to work, but I'm still trying to find the article.

[Botany]

16. They have another link to the article in the thread. But ....

.... the important stuff is in the thread written by IT pros.
Computer got busy so it had to add votes to bush.
Then the Dispatch publishes that horse crap as a cover
story.

[MelissaB]

18. I couldn't get it to work, either.

Thanks for trying to help. :hug:

[Botany]

19. I might have a tin foil hat but ....

.... I am sure the dispatch does not that story really looked @.

Again the good stuff is in the thread.

Computer tired = must add votes to bush??????

Gee, when my computer gets overloaded it crashes or sends an error
message. BTW adding #s such as vote tabulation is a very simple program .....

[ginnyinWI]

26. just because he talks about it now

does not mean he didn't know before now.

[FreedomAngel82]

36. From my research on Kerry

he seems to only come out and saying things when he knows he can. Maybe he has something to nail them with. Only thing I can think of. I thought it was strange how he and Mrs. Heinz Kerry were talking about this a while back and making some noise. They know how the media is in this country, so why would they risk talking about it? Only thing I can think of is to just keep watching.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MelissaB]

15. I live in Alaf*ckingbama, so I have no delusions about this.

I read here for sanity, but live in conservative heaven.

[Botany]

17. The election was stolen

I saw voter fraud with my own eyes.
I heard it w/ my ears.

No delusion here.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MelissaB]

24. Nobody said he/she believed everything said

in "this stupid article from this stupid, dishonest site". I think you could have made your point without attacking somebody's judgment, though.

[MissWaverly]

25. the voice of sanity

I am so tired of being belittled by people saying how do you know the election was stolen, I know it because I saw it myself, in Baltimore, MD. I've done statistical breakdowns which I sent to quite a few people. The results in Maryland are bogus, 5 minutes worth of examination will prove that. I am tired of being personally attacked for making factual statements. How do I know that it snowed in Baltimore this winter, because I shoveled my sidewalk, cleaned my car off, etc.

[FreedomAngel82]

37. There, to me, are a lot of clues

that shows the election was stolen. By how when someone tried to vote for Kerry but came up Bush, how OVER NIGHT a judge let the republicans challenge people and how they kept a lot of machines hidden so they could have people waiting for hours. They knew people had to work and couldn't stay all day. If you go to cspan.org and type in the search engine you can find the interview with Cliff Arnebeck with the Washington journal. According to him someone hacked into the computers and went through and whoever was a republican who voted for Kerry their votes got switched to Bush.

[MissWaverly]

41. I know that but even here at DU I am constantly defending

what I say about the stolen election of 2004, yes, I agree there are a lot of clues but because they have not been widely circulated in the press, people do not believe fraud occurred. Maybe this will improve too in the coming months as it is obvious that GWB does not
have a mandate.

[Chi]

21. They realize their original strategies are being bypassed.....

They set up the Falluja trap, so they could make anyone protesting the elections look un-American.

Then they set the 'conspiracy nut' trap, so that anyone speaking out about election fraud is boxed into it.

Now they realize people are collecting proof of fraud, and they need to suck them in because they aren't speaking out about the fraud.

So multiple articles are now saying that the Kerrys 'believe' in the fraud, because they can't use the 'conspiracy nut' tactic if the Dems don't say it out loud.

I think it shows their scared.
Uncle Karl be afraid...be VERY afraid!
Because we are coming, and hell is coming with us. (quote from Tombstone)

[bleever]

28. I agree. There's a lot of defense being played now; and for good

reason.

"Uncle Karl be afraid...be VERY afraid!
Because we are coming, and hell is coming with us." Nice.

[FreedomAngel82]

39. Exactly!

That's exactly what they're doing. By making John Kerry look angry, jealous and a "consperiacy theorists" people will ignore it. I think he has something planned and that's why all the articles are coming out. He's a brilliant person so I can't wait to see what happens next.

[jsw_81]

22. This idea that Kerry is "finished" is nonsense

Many presidents (e.g. Johnson, Nixon, Reagan, both Bushes) lost their first campaign for the presidency but managed to win later on. I think Kerry has an excellent shot, especially if Hillary continues her swing to the right. At this rate she'll be Rush Limbaugh by 2008, and that isn't going to fly in the Democratic primaries.

[FogerRox]

23. 60 days after Nov. 2nd 20 % thought there was fraud

90 days after Nov. 2nd 30% thought there was fraud

[TruthIsAll]

38. Let's regress that...

60 days after Nov. 2nd 20% thought there was fraud,
90 days after Nov. 2nd 30% thought there was fraud:

1. Jan 20%
2. Feb 30%
3. Mar 40%
4. Apr 50% ?

Are we at critical mass yet?

By September, look out!!!!!

[tommcintyre]

43. A new reciprocal formula/ratio for you TIA

As Bush's approval rating drops, the number finally willing to admit he may not have REALLY been elected will go up inversely (proportionally?). (Preferably, exponentially, ahh... but perhaps I'm waxing too optimistic now.) ;)

[Ellipsis]

45. Really 30%? Source? .... I believe ya.... still like the source.

It will come in handy when I have my next "discussion" with my conservative evangelical landlord.

}(

[FogerRox]

47. AAR--either Randi or MAlloy

[tommcintyre]

49. Annenberg study

1 - January 7th, 2005 National Annenberg Election Survey (page 2 - 30% of American voters were NOT “very confident that their vote had been counted accurately”. This number is up from 20% in surveys taken the month before.)
http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/naes/2004_03_mindset-bush-kerry-supporters_%2001-05_pr.pdf

<This is implied since since the report states that 70% were very confident...>

I think this is what is being referred to, if there is another/better reference, please post it.

[ginnyinWI]

27. Yes. The repubs want Hillary to be the nominee

She'll be easy to beat, and she'll stir up their base to give lots of money to do it with.

[tommcintyre]

29. No matter what (the motives) this is good news for us

Whether Kerry is doing it because he REALLY wants to fight/expose the fraud that gave Bush the election; or it is a gambit for re-nomination in '08, doesn't matter. The publicity will only help us since it will make more Americans aware that "something MAY have been wrong" (create legitimate doubt in the outcome). And such publicity/exposure can only make our job easier.

But, there IS an important question that is NOT being addressed: IS Kerry actually speaking out - or are others "putting words in his mouth". I'm seeing this trend resurface (starting with the "jen" thread here - and now these three articles).

We had PLENTY of this type of "Kerry really thinks it was fraud, but..." stuff before he threw cold water on it in January when he clearly said on MTP that "Bush won because of Osama". (Of course he, and other Dems, have also continuously held the position: "despite the "irregularities", Bush really won".)

But whether Kerry is really "on board" or not is really secondary. The fact that, no less than three journals are SAYING he is, gives us "free exposure", either way. And that's good.

[MelissaB]

30. I agree, tommcintyre.

I have posted MANY articles about what THK said. Many were from conservative sites, but many were from liberal sites. If anyone wants me to drag these up, I'd be glad to.

[tommcintyre]

32. Teresa's remarks add an interesting element

On one hand, anything she says can't be automatically assumed to be "the words of JK". During the campaign, he said: "Teresa speaks her mind" (implying no-one can control her). Some saw her as a "loose cannon" (political liability); I see her as a "breath of fresh air" (in the stale world of carefully contrived "spin" politics).

Her "lightening rod" qualities (as any prominent out-spoken progressive women is to the sexist right-wing), only adds to the exposure. Again, this can only be good, since I'm sure more moderate conservatives (potentially convince-able about election fraud) also visit these sites.

[TayTay]

33. I heard him speak about this on April 10th

In Boston at Faneuil Hall. There was an event to honor kids who had written these great essays about what we learned from the last election. Sen Kerry took his wife's place at this event when she had another committment come up.

Senator Kerry spoke about 5 things he wanted to focus on in the remaining four years of his Senate term: Health Care, the Environment, American Foreign policy, America's own infrastructure needs and Election Reform. He didn't have to include that latter item. He could easily have gotten away with the points he was making on his KidsFirst health care program, the environment, the mess America has made in the world and the crying needs we have at home. But he stated that the 5th thing he is going to work on is election reform.

I heard Senator Kerry bring this up, on his own, in a program where he could have easily talked about something else. So, I think it's on his mind.

[tommcintyre]

44. Election Reform talk is good, but we really need FRAUD talk too

It's sure good that he includes "election reform" in his talks (many other Dem politicians are doing this too); but we really need him to "up his game" to include possible fraud - as the articles are claiming he is doing. Teresa certainly did it, but there are no instances of him doing it to date.

I know there are people who claim he will be called a "sore loser" if he does, but there are less drastic things he can do (that would certainly help) than say "Bush stole it!"

For example, if he would just come out and say something like: "there is enough evidence that COULD POSSIBLY cast doubt on the outcome of the election. So a serious investigation is now called for."

If he ever does this, I, for one, will be jumping for joy! :bounce:

[TayTay]

46. I don't think the name calling is much of a factor

After you've been called a murderer, a coward who faked his service record in order to get undeserved medals and had his patriotism questioned and called a gold-digger who only married for money, I should think that being called a 'sore loser' is rather vague and quaint at this point. It beats being called a baby-killer, having your wife ridiculed in public and called a crazy person on TV and all the other stuff that was said about John Kerry and his family during the last election. I think if he gave a good deep shit about that stuff he would have resigned his seat in the Senate and gone somewhere to recover. He didn't, the name-calling continues and I still see no evidence that he gives a shit. He is still there and doing a pretty good job too!

I see Kerry as a very careful man who is very deliberate in his speech and in his actions. (Didn't that drive some of us crazy during the election? One of the most frequently voiced complaints was that he was too slow to respond and too careful.) The DNC budgeted $500,000 to investigate what went on in Ohio. I haven't seen anything about that lately. I have seen and read Congressman Conyers initial report on Ohio and that dirty tricks that were played there. I have seen the video about this on the 'net. I think that Kerry has as well. (His daughters have made comments about this as has Teresa Heinz Kerry.) Now they have to get proof of what happened in the electronic voting and counting.

The Senator mentioned election problems in front of a Boston crowd around Jan. 17th at a MLK breakfast. It was dismissed as pandering to an African-American audience. He appeared as a co-sponsor of a reform bill in the Senate with Hillary Clinton. And he spoke about election troubles and specifically mentioned the long lines, the brochures that were distributed that said Democrats vote on Wednesday and other irregularities at the forum I saw. Each time I have heard him speak, the charges get more specific. It appears that it is leading somewhere, but I do not know yet where they are leading. I will stay tuned to find out.

Again, I really don't think the name-calling matters. I think that is what his speech this week on the floor of the Senate was all about. The Rethugs have gone about as far as you can go in that regard. How much worse can you get than 'Vote for this or you hate Jesus?' I mean, come on, after a while, it's all just so much noise.

[tommcintyre]

50. Well... if he even implies MAJOR Fraud...

please let me know. I will be able to do something with this. Although, if he does, we will probably both find out since it will be even BIGGER news (at least on the Internet) than when THK did it. ;)

[FreedomAngel82]

40. To me

the media doing this big spin shows me there is something going on. Whether, like you said, to give the fraud issue exposer or if he is doing something. Either way it works out.

[Carolab]

42. If he wants a shot at 2008, he'd BETTER get mad.

And get dedicated to proving he was robbed.

Glad to see his dander up--FINALLY. Don't just get mad, John--GET EVEN!

[FogerRox]

48. Madder than hell--hes gotta give a knockout punch to

these Nazi's