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Paul Dlugokencky Donating Member (409 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 08:10 AM
Original message
Sign MoveOn's Petition to Repair the Vote!
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
1. signed
and will forward.

Was terribly frustrated with moveon though that they didn't take up this issue 2 years ago when it was at the top of their forum for several months. There was a rumor at the time that they wouldn't because of some alliance with the ACLU and concerns that the EVM's were good for people with disabilities

Sheesh. . .Well of course the disabled should be able to vote and have their votes counted but so should the rest of us.

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Peggy Day Donating Member (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
2. what about auditing and paper receipts for recount?
Edited on Mon May-02-05 08:32 AM by Peggy Day
Maybe they want that, but it isn't mentioned. I want more than paper receipts now-I want REALLY FAIR elections. I want recipts that are left for the recount if needed.
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Jo March Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. No receipts - Voter Verified Paper Ballots
A receipt does us no good. In a recount, we need a ballot that is legal to be counted.

A receipt can just be a piece of paper that says, "Arnheim voted." A ballot would show that my ID voted, who I voted for and it has the legal weight in a recount.

In honor of Andy Stephenson: Ask for what you want - VVPB!!

Not fussing at you - it's just that some folks make receipts sound great when they aren't worth the paper they are printed on in the event of a recount.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
4. THIS IS SO DISGUSTING. I absolutely will not sign a petition calling
for verified paper receipts! What is WRONG with these people? Is this their version of election reform? Have they not studied this issue at all? They are harming our cause, not helping it. With all the thousands of emails their readers have sent on this issue, they should know better by now. Do they not read ANY of their emails? Thousands have tried to educate them on these issues, and NO RESPONSE.

BALLOTS, not receipts. and that is just the beginning. Even if all they did is have a page of links to info, it would do a huge amount of good.
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emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'm sending them a letter requesting that they pull it
and redo it. I'm hoping in the next few hours to get this letter signed by other election reform activists. If you'd like to be a signer, please PM me with your name and organizational affiliation.

Here's my letter:

Dear Wes Boyd, Joan Blades and other MoveOn staff:

As leaders in the election reform movement, we are deeply concerned about
your newly released petition to
"repair the vote." While we are pleased that MoveOn wants to motivate its
members to take action for fair elections, we regret to say that we believe
that the wording of your petition is more harmful than helpful to the cause.

A "paper receipt" does not solve the problems of electronic voting
technology. A slip of paper with a happy face on it that says, "Thanks for
voting!" could qualify as a receipt. Even a receipt that specifies the votes
cast by the voter is insufficient, because DRE (direct recording electronic)
voting machines can easily be programmed to print a receipt that tells the
voter they voted for candidate A while actually counting their vote for
candidate B. What is needed to ensure that the results of the election
represent the will of the voters is voter-verified paper ballots. It is
these ballots, not the electronic machine tally, that must be used for the
official vote count. Receipts are not simply a "band-aid," but are band-aid
in a bathtub--completely useless.

By asking your loyal members to endorse a paper receipt, you have
miseducated them in a way that we believe is dangerous to the cause of fair
elections. We respectfully request that you replace this petition with a new
one requesting voter-verified paper ballots that are the ballots of record
for every election, and that you notify signers of the original petition of
the change. We further request that the original petitions not be submitted
to lawmakers or other government officials.

For a bit more information on this issue, we direct you to Gary Beckwith's
brief article, "Understanding the difference between paper ballots and paper
audit trails." (Please note that a "receipt" is even less helpful than a
paper audit trail.)
http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/1201

We would like to take this opportunity to offer to assist you in coming
up-to-speed on the intricacies of the election reform issues and movement.
If you would like to meet with representatives of grassroots election reform
groups or would like more written information, we would be delighted to
arrange that for you.

Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,
(list of signers being compiled now)
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Paul Dlugokencky Donating Member (409 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Devil's in the details...
Good letter, agreed that the petition could be worded better. Should a version of your letter also be sent to Senator Clinton? Her "co-sponsor" page for her Count Every Vote Act is at http://www.friendsofhillary.com/CountEveryVote/



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JunkYardDogg Donating Member (618 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
6. Sounds like they are poaching Velvet Revolution's Mantra

Without understanding the Whole Concept
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emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
8. Apparently this petition's three months old!
So many people have signed it that they're not going to pull it, according to Will Doherty of verifiedvoting.org, who spoke to Noah Winer at MoveOn about it today.

At this point I don't know if my letter will still be sent.

If anyone wants to make their own version of my letter (preferably a stronger version that talks about the importance of hand-counting of the votes) and send it to Clinton or whoever over their own signature, be my guest.
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Paul Dlugokencky Donating Member (409 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Sorry
Argh... sorry about getting a bad ball rolling here.

I don't see why MoveOn can't amend the wording, which is

"Congress must support electoral reforms such as guaranteeing paper receipts for electronic voting machines, providing remedies for long lines, and prohibiting partisan election officials."

I would think that "such as" leaves room for improvement.

-Paul



http://www.cafepress.com/kickindemocrats
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emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. Some good may come of this
-MoveOn is being asked to stop collecting signatures on this petition. No response yet.
-A discussion is now happening among election reform leaders about making a concerted effort to reach out to MoveOn and become their "goto" people on issues of election integrity.
-I found out that MoveOn has supported legislation on a state-by-state basis that calls for Voter Verified Paper Ballots. They send those alerts out only to members of the state where the legislation is proposed, so that's why many of us don't know they're doing it. It's good to know.
-I discovered that I can indeed write a response letter quickly and get a group of movement leaders to sign it. Also good to know.

And, yeah, it's still true I had other things to do today. I appreciate your apology. Any of us could have done what you did. Forgiven.
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Paul Dlugokencky Donating Member (409 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Lemonaid out of Lemons
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-02-05 06:09 PM
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