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I'd like an update on CA please.

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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 10:08 PM
Original message
I'd like an update on CA please.
OK, I've heard about Kevin Shelley, the Gropenator, McPherson, McCormack, InkAVote, Feinstein, Boxer:loveya: and all that stuff, but exactly where are you with voter-verified paper audit records, mandatory manual random auditing and recount law, with the emphasis on the law part? Do you have any of them on the books, or in the legislature, that would make your elections verifiable or what? McPherson seems to be in favor of the paper at least. If you don't like what he's doing, what about some legislation to improve things? Just thought I'd ask since you have all those electoral votes, and congressional seats, and people too! Hate to see you go any more red than absolutely necessary in '06 or '08, right? So what's the deal???
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. A law requiring paper trails of some sort goes into effect in '06.
That's the good news.

Bad news is McPherson has a commission that includes a Diebold rep and another member or two tied in with $chwarzenegger fundraising.

There is a hearing May 19 at the Secretary of State's office to consider whether to buy more Diebold equipment, never mind that Diebold has broken every promise it ever made to clean up its act, and has been caught loading backdoor software in CA on multiple occasions, from what I've heard.

Expect a very big stink from a raucous crowd next Thursday. Hearing starts at 10 am; be there at 9 if you can.

In other bad news, CA will be making a decision in the next few days on whether to award a contract to Choicepoint, the outfit that helped steal Florida for W in '02. They purged tens of thousands of supposed felons, mostly black Democrats, off voting rolls in "error". This is also the company that sold off consumers data
and has been involved in major security breaches. Yeah, sounds trustworthy to me, right?

CA officials insanely are leaning toward this. There is talk of trying to get emergency legislation enacted to force them to consider more than just low cost--ie, criminal records, integrity, etc.

Trust me, Californians are screaming about this stuff. But it's being done through channels other than our Dem-controlled legislature.
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Bill Bored Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks for posting Belle.
Paper trails, but what about auditing? Could the Dem-controlled legislature be prevailed upon to mandate some, or is that part of the law already? Or is it left up to the BOE or SOS Du Jour to figure out?
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. I wish I knew, but I'm not sure.
Our local expert on this stuff is away in France for a month.
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 02:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. The Choice (Gun?) Point deal is being discussed on the CA Board
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Peggy Day Donating Member (859 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. 5/19/05 meeting cancelled nt
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-10-05 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. Here's SB1438
http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/03-04/bill/sen/sb_1401-1450/sb_1438_bill_20040927_chaptered.html

I'm not sure that this is the form in which it was enacted into law.

It states, in part:

Existing law requires the Secretary of State to establish the specifications and the regulations governing voting machines, voting devices, and any software used, including the programs and procedures for vote tabulating and testing. The Secretary of State may not approve any voting system that does not fulfill statutory and regulatory requirements.

Existing law also requires the Secretary of State to adopt rules and regulations governing any voting technology or systems used in the state that provide blind and visually impaired individuals with access that is equivalent to that provided to individuals who are not blind or visually impaired.


This seems to leave a lot up to the SoS.

I see no discussion of audits or recounts, here. But there, too, is the "election code":

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/calawquery?codesection=elec&codebody=&hits=20
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Paper TRAILS????
What happened to paper BALLOTS?
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 05:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I don't understand your question.
Edited on Wed May-11-05 05:16 AM by Wilms
While paper ballots are used in a number of counties, they're not required. You could use a DRE (certified by the SoS) that has to be VVPAT, but it's not a ballot. And it doesn't seem to require that the VVPAT be "manually" countable. Nor do I see anything about mandatory audits. So it's useless to an even greater degree.

I fear that means the toilet paper roll version of VVPAT could be used. And I fear that's not the VVPAT we'd want (not that we want VVPAT but you understand).

My hope would be for a hand countable "record" to be produced by the machine.

And I pray we could turn off the DR in DRE and use it, if at all, as a ballot marker.
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Wilms, PLEASE read about the difference between "trails" and ballots
www.chuckherrin.com "Hack The Vote"

and

www.votersunite.org

PLEASE!
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Carol, please. What is the point you are trying to make?
I doubt I'm an expert, but I think I've a reasonable understanding of the differences between a paper ballot and VVPAT.

Is there some nuance you sense I'm missing?

I think, for the most part here on DU, we got it that VVPAT is not THE answer. But VVPAT is a reality to be dealt with. So if one is stuck with VVPAT, they may want to augment it with manual audits, for one instance. That's not advocacy, it's damage control.

Again, please lay out the particular concerns, beyond the 'ol "Paper Ballot-Hand Counted" refrain.

Thanks,

Another Choir Member :)
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-11-05 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Yes, and a LOT of people are missing the point!
Edited on Wed May-11-05 04:03 PM by Carolab
Chuck and VotersUnite "Mythbreakers" can tell you much more about it. Essentially, a VVPAT is just a paper record of what the machine outputs. Even if you have a paper receipt in front of you that you can check and drop into the ballot box, there is STILL no guarantee that the counters are recording the votes accurately. Also, these receipts, since they are not identified in any way and therefore you cannot verify whether the trail in the box is actually yours or not, your "trail" can be easily "substituted" for others with different results that would match the machine-counted tally. It would be much, MUCH more difficult to substitute BALLOTS that voters have to laboriously mark themselves--filling in lots of ovals with a pen--and therefore much, MUCH more difficult to cheat with them.

If machines are forced on us to do the counting, then we need to ensure they are secure. A paper receipt will only tell us how we voted before we drop it into the box. How do we know that the votes on that receipt are in fact what the counter will count? How do we prove that the counter is lying? Another receipt can be substituted for our receipt and we won't even know. Additional receipts can be printed out and dropped in the box for voters who never even actually voted.

How can we prevent that? We have to AT LEAST make sure we have paper ballots that we can count manually. We have to be sure those paper ballots are hand-marked by people in such a way that in order to substitute them or to create fake ones it would be much harder. We have to have better accounting practices so that the number of voters who sign in or mail in their ballots count the actual number of ballots/receipts that are counted. We have to make sure the machine counts match the number of ballots/signatures at the polls and in the registration books.

A paper trail is just a printout of what a machine says happened. How do you prove that what the machine says happened is what actually occurred?

http://www.chuckherrin.com/paperballots.htm

<snip>

Before we started using computers, it was unthinkable that you wouldn't have a piece of paper that could be used in the event of a recount- now, when there's a request for a recount, all we hear about is bitching because somebody has to hook a printer up to the machine! And do you know what you get when you recount inaccurate results? A paper copy of inaccurate results.

Have we lost our frickin' minds? We don't even have paper receipts, much less ballots! And it's not just the touchscreens - that's something else that a lot of people are missing. You have to take a step one level back in the tabulation process to the computers that actually do the tallying. That's where votes from touchscreens, as well as optically scanned AND absentee ballots come together to be counted.

<snip>

http://www.votersunite.org/takeaction/handcounted.asp

The "central finding" of a 2001 CalTech/MIT study was that, of all voting systems used in the United States, hand counted paper ballots have the lowest average incidence of spoiled, uncounted, and unmarked ballots.
- Errors in the software, firmware, and election-specific ballot programming of both paperless electronic voting machines (DREs) and optical scan tabulation machines have caused hundreds of election problems in recent years, including high levels of uncounted and unmarked ballots. It is unreasonable to believe that all such errors have been detected.

- Manual recounts of optical-scan ballots have overturned initial, inaccurate machine results in many such cases. It is only reasonable to believe that the outcomes of many other elections (both DRE and optical scan) have been inaccurate, and the inaccuracies were not detected.

- Computer-counting errors have a much greater potential impact than hand-counting errors.

- The electronic voting systems used in the United States, both optical scan and DRE, have severe and unresolved security and accuracy flaws that are not being remedied by election procedures.

- While we advocate the use of computers to assist people in marking their ballots, computers cannot count those ballots reliably.

Therefore, in order to protect the accuracy of our election outcomes, we demand the following:

- All ballots shall be paper ballots and hand counted.

- Every voting system using automated or electronic means of recording and/or counting votes shall provide a paper ballot whose accuracy can be verified by the voter, and that paper ballot shall be the legal ballot used for the official canvass, audit, recount, and final record.

- Ballot counts shall be done by precinct with public oversight.

- Ballot-count results shall be made public immediately at each precinct.

- Media outlets shall wait until all polling places close before reporting any election results or outcome predictions.

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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. It may say that, but I'm not sure.
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GuvWurld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 02:55 AM
Response to Original message
12. Diebold (De)Certification Delayed
This just in...
Please be advised that the May 19th VSPP meeting has been cancelled. All the agenda items for that meeting, including the Diebold system, have been tentatively rescheduled for consideration at the June 16, 2005 VSPP Meeting.

Bruce McDannold
Election Specialist: Voting Systems
That info comes courtesy of the Open Voting Consortium newsletter, and refers to the (de)certification meeting that election reformers have been planning to swarm. It also mentions a "rumor" that the delay may have come at Diebold's request. Regardless, this is somewhat of a reprieve. We may be close to getting the Humboldt County Supes to create an election reform task force (see below) but we must still keep emphasizing No Deal With Diebold!

More in the GuvWurld Blog...
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-12-05 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Thanks so much for this info, GuvWurld! They probably heard tell of...
...the crowd gathering and sidled away into the night. Best keep an eye on the VSPP meeting updates online every day. I seem to recall being advised that VSPP does shenanigans like this--meeting changes (trying to prevent public in-put--and that was with Shelley in charge--could be much worse with McPherson). Also it looks like they may have fired Michael Wagaman--very public friendly guy--along with all the other good Shelley staff. Just a guess--never heard of Bruce McDannold.
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