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WHAT IS THE PROBABILITY THAT BUSH WOULD GET 15.5-18% OF GORE VOTERS?

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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 11:56 AM
Original message
WHAT IS THE PROBABILITY THAT BUSH WOULD GET 15.5-18% OF GORE VOTERS?
Edited on Sun Aug-21-05 12:51 PM by TruthIsAll
There were approximately 3200 respondents to the National Exit
Poll question: How Did You Vote in 2000?			

The margin of error (MoE) for N= 3200 respondents is given by
the formula: MoE = 1.96 *sqrt(p*(1-p)/N), 

In this case, p = .15, since that 15.5% is the percentage of
Gore votes that Bush needed to win by 3 million votes, based
on the final exit poll. Thus, the MoE = 1.24% for this sample.
But...lets avoid using the MoE formula result. Otherwise, it
will just divert us from the point of discussion. 

So...let's remove the sample "cluster effect" or
"design factor" from the discussion. We will use 2%
for this analysis.

According to the Mitofsky MoE table, the MoE = 2% for the
sample-size range which includes N = 3200, assuming a 15-85%
characteristic weighting.

We'll use a 2% MoE  to calculate probabilities that Bush would
get: 

a) 15.5% of Gore voters assuming the Final National Exit Poll,
which Bush won by 51.11-48.48% and 

b) 18% of Gore voters assuming the 12:22am Exit poll, which
Kerry won by 51.41-47.62%.

__________________________________________________________

National Exit Poll: 12:22am, 13047 respondents				

Kerry wins by 4.5 million votes

Voted	Mix	Bush	Kerry	Nader	Votes
No	17%	41%	57%	2%	20.78
Gore	39%	8%	91%	1%	47.68
Bush	41%	90%	10%	0%	50.13
Nader	3%	21%	71%	8%	3.67
98%	100%	47.62%	51.41%	0.97%	122.26
	122.26	58.22	62.85	1.19	
_________________________________________________________


Assuming maximum 2000 voter turnout,
Kerry wins by almost 7 million votes.
	
Voted	Mix	Bush	Kerry	Other	Votes
No	17.31%	41%	57%	2%	21.16
Gore	40.25%	8%	91%	1%	49.21
Bush	39.82%	90%	10%	0%	48.68
Nader	2.62%	21%	71%	8%	3.20
	100%	46.71%	52.34%	0.96%	122.26
	122.26	57.10	63.99	1.17	
_________________________________________________________

Bush needed 18% of Gore voters for his 3 million margin

To get 18% of Gore voters, given the 8% exit poll result, the
probability is less than 1 in 450 trillion.
		
Voted	Mix	Bush	Kerry	Other	Votes
No	17.31%	41%	57%	2%	21.16
Gore	40.25%	18%	81%	1%	49.21
Bush	39.82%	90%	10%	0%	48.68
Nader	2.62%	21%	71%	8%	3.20
	100%	50.73%	48.31%	0.96%	122.26
	122.26	62.02	59.07	1.17	
_________________________________________________________

Prob =1-NORMDIST(X, 8%, 2%/1.96 ,TRUE)

X	Prob>X	Odds: 1 in
5%	99.84%	1
6%	97.50%	1
7%	83.65%	1
8%	50.00%	2
9%	16.35%	6
10%	2.50%	40
11%	0.16%	609
12%	0.00%	22,577
13%	0.00%	2,083,900
14%	0.00%	485,887,839
15%	0.00%	288,701,537,060
16%	0.00%	450,359,962,737,050
17%	0.00%	nc
18%	0.00%	nc < *************************


****************************************************


National Exit Poll: 1:25pm, 13660 respondents
Bush wins by 3 million votes				

Voted	Mix	Bush	Kerry	Nader	Votes
No	17%	45%	54%	1%	20.78
Gore	37%	10%	90%	0%	45.24
Bush	43%	91%	9%	0%	52.57
Nader	3%	21%	71%	8%	3.67
	100%	51.11%	48.48%	0.41%	122.26
	       62.49	59.27	0.50
_________________________________________________________

Assuming maximum 2000 voter turnout,
Kerry wins by almost 3 million votes.
					
Voted	Mix	Bush	Kerry	Other	Votes
No	17.31%	45%	54%	1%	21.16
Gore	40.25%	10%	90%	0%	49.21
Bush	39.82%	91%	9%	0%	48.68
Nader	2.62%	21%	71%	8%	3.20
	100%	48.60%	51.02%	0.38%	122.26
	122.26	59.42	62.37	0.47	

_________________________________________________________


Bush needed 15.5% of Gore voters for his 3 million margin					
Voted	Mix	Bush	Kerry	Other	Votes
No	17.31%	45%	54%	1%	21.16
Gore	40.25%	15.5%	83.5%	1%	49.21
Bush	39.82%	91%	9%	0%	48.68
Nader	2.62%	21%	71%	8%	3.20
	100%	50.81%	48.40%	0.79%	122.26
	122.26	62.13	59.17	0.96	

_________________________________________________________


To get 15.5% of Gore voters, given the 10% exit poll result,
the probability is 1 in 28 million.

Prob =1-NORMDIST(X, 10%, 2%/1.96, TRUE)

X	Prob>X	Odds: 1 in
5%	100.00%	1
6%	100.00%	1
7%	99.84%	1
8%	97.50%	1
9%	83.65%	1
10%	50.00%	2
11%	16.35%	6
12%	2.50%	40
13%	0.16%	609
14%	0.00%	22,577
15%	0.00%	2,083,900
15.5%	0.00%	28,322,049 < **********


*******************************************************
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. ITA as always.
There was NO Miracle of the Religious Bigots. That was the cover story for the Democratic votes that suddenly appeared in Republican columns.
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Arkansas Democrat Donating Member (142 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I don't understand
these numbers. But I do know that last October I saw very few Bush/Cheney bumper stickers in my area. Hubby and I volunteered at the local Democratic Headquarters 3 days a week leading up to the election and could hardly believe it when we heard that Arkansas had gone to Bush!!! Shortly after the election I see LOTS of Bush/Cheney stickers! Hypocrits!!
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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. TIA, you just don't understand.. It was a MIRACLE!!!!!
those silly, deluded Gore voters went in those voting booths and talked to those exit pollsters thinking that they voted for Gore or Kerry BUT IT WAS THE HAND OF GOD THAT GUIDED THOSE VOTES AND THEY WENT TO STRAIGHT TO BUSH!!! THe HAND OF GOD I TELL YOU!!!HALLELUJAH!!!
:sarcasm:
there is no other accounting for it is there?
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. On the other side...No matter who the Dem Candidate is, How many
Bush Voters will come on over and vote Dem/Blue?
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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. No, OPI, you don't understand, only Gore voters forget or lie
Edited on Sun Aug-21-05 12:41 PM by TruthIsAll
about who they voted for.

Did you ever know a Bush supporter who forgot or lied about anything?

Besides, Gore voters loved Bush.

Especially after he stole the election from them.
Especially after he did nothing to stop 9/11.
Especially after he lied about WMD.
Especially after he outed the CIA's Valerie Plame.
Especially after the Abu Ghraib torture.
Especially after giving tax cuts for the rich that we pay for.
Especially after spoiling the environment.
Especially after making a mockery of our elections throughout the world.
Especially after dissing the U.N.
Especially after not attending ONE soldier's funeral.
Especially after taking us from massive surplus to massive deficits.

Of course Gore voters wanted to identify with Bush.
Everyone loves a winner.

Come, we go do the fire-walk.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I know, they been in the Spin Zone with Chris whatshisface....
Come, we go walk on FIRE, do the :smoke:
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. no it was the "Christian" hidden vote from 2000 and the miracle of the
exurbs that gave bush his #s. Karl told us so.

Funny I know some of those rural white good old boys in Ohio and a block
of them in Knox County registered and voted this year ..... and they voted
against bush. They live rural but many had or have blue collar factory jobs
and they saw those leaving so they voted against bush.

Funny, the vote #s showed bush winning those areas.

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anaxarchos Donating Member (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. You know, TIA, I am not at all sure that anyone has really...
...come forward to claim how they won this election for Bush. I'm talkin' ANYONE - not just freepers, not just "commentators", not just "strategists", nobody. There is a surplus of Democrats explaining "why we lost" and there is a host of Republicans claiming the same thing, with 10 times the stridency, but who has claimed to be able to reconstruct 2004 into a legitimate and believable victory for Bush?

For starters, it sure wasn't Karl Rove (at least not as a legitimate political strategist) who "won". Rove was going for something entirely different. In 2001, he thought he had the elements to turn 9/11 into a real Republican majority. By 2003, with Iraq and the economy, he had given up on that completely. The "strategy" was:

1) You let inertia freeze the 2000 election elements in place (reasonable as politics usually change slowly).

2) That leaves you with about a 3 million vote gap (.5 million Gore advantage plus maybe 2 million Nader votes plus maybe a .5 million disadvantage if the new voters break against the Republicans). Key is that this happens in a total turnout of 110, maybe 112 million votes... tops.

3) The Rove "plan", repeated endlessly, was to take a "hard right" in politics in order to import in 3 million nut jobs (out of a maximum of 4 million evangelicals who had fallen off the right end of the 2000 elections).

4) With the exodus from Mars in the point above, you could essentially match the Democrats or, maybe, barely achieve a political majority. You then counted on favorable geography with the electoral college to "eke out" (his words) an electoral win.

Two things went "wrong" for the Rove plan in 2004:

1) 122 million people voted (instead of 112 million) - That put Rove down by AT LEAST 1 million votes.

2) Bush "WON" by 3 million votes; not by a "bare majority" if any.

How?

Now before I get bombarded with "It was fraud, stupid", I guessed that already. But there are an awful lot of people who claim not to believe that. You would think that out of that multitude, someone would come forward to explain it.

There is no shortage of partial "explanations"... it "musta been this" or "coulda been that" ...BUT, I can't think of a single comprehensive explanation or even an attempt at an explanation to address the above. Not in 9 months...

If it wasn't Karl's "victory", whose was it?

Someone must want credit for this turkey....

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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Brilliant question Anax! Perhaps someone with the right answer will come
to visit us in the 'game' thread and answer this question...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x390193
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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. We'll soon know to whom the opposing players give credit for the Bush"win"
Edited on Sun Aug-21-05 08:38 PM by TruthIsAll
Remember Roscoe Tanner?
130 mph server.
But he faulted a lot.
Not much of a return.
Didn't win too many matches.

Remember Chris Evert?
Hardly ever faulted.
Nothing flashy.
Just kept the ball in play.
Relentless.
Right to the point.
Won a lot of matches.
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anaxarchos Donating Member (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. This is one of hundreds of media pieces....
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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
10. Typo fix: Bush needed 16% of Gore voters based on Final Exit Poll
Edited on Sun Aug-21-05 06:43 PM by TruthIsAll
In the Final Exit Poll (13660 respondents), 0% of Gore voters
went to Other (Nader et al). I had it as 1%. This slight
change makes a big difference in the odds.

National Exit Poll: 1:25pm, 13660 respondents					
Bush needed 16% of Gore voters for his 3 million margin.		

The probability that Gore voters who voted for Bush would
increase from 10% in the Final Exit Poll to 16% in the vote is
1 in 485 million.

Final					
Voted	Mix	Bush	Kerry	Other	Votes
No	17.31%	45%	54%	1%	21.16
Gore	40.25%	16%	84%	0%	49.21
Bush	39.82%	91%	9%	0%	48.68
Nader	2.62%	21%	71%	8%	3.20
	100%	51.02%	48.60%	0.38%	122.26
	122.26	62.37	59.42	0.47	

X	Prob>X	Odds: 1 in
5%	100.00%	1
6%	100.00%	1
7%	99.84%	1
8%	97.50%	1
9%	83.65%	1
10%	50.00%	2
11%	16.35%	6
12%	2.50%	40
13%	0.16%	609
14%	0.00%	22,577
15%	0.00%	2,083,900
16%	0.00%	485,887,839
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-22-05 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
13. You and I know this was bullshit!
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tommcintyre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-05 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
14. kick - In tribute to his tremendous contributions - WHY??? :( n/t
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-25-05 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. Kicking for truth, justice, and TIA's invaluable work.
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