Paperless DRE could bite back in Virginia

[struggle4progress]

E-voting machines lack trails, and now a recount's expected

November 08, 2006 (IDG News Service) -- ... As of 1 p.m. EST Wednesday, Democratic challenger James Webb held a lead of less than 7,000 votes over incumbent Republican Senator George Allen, with more than 2.3 million votes cast and 99 percent of precincts reporting results.

If those results remain, Virginia law would allow Allen to ask for a recount, but e-voting critics said that without paper printouts in jurisdictions with e-voting, there will be no effective way to recount the votes. The e-voting machines would spit out the same numbers as they did the first time during a recount.

None of Virginia's jurisdictions using DREs have paper backups, according to government watchdog Common Cause. A recount could audit absentee ballots or other voting methods used in a handful of jurisdictions.

"In some places, there will be nothing to recount," said David Dill, founder of e-voting watchdog Verified Voting and a computer science professor at Stanford University ...

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=government&articleId=9004911&taxonomyId=13&intsrc=kc_top

:evilgrin: I may foresee broad bipartisan support for verifiable voting. And I think I like the way it happened ...

[CrispyQ]

1. lol

Love it!!

[reprehensor]

2. I hope you are right.

I believe it was Hasturd who would not let the damn Russ Holt bill out of committee.

[dave502d]

3. I think this will help us get voting machines with paper printouts.n/t

[bullimiami]

4. arrogant, over reaching, short sighted ... republicans.

[In Truth We Trust]

5. K&R Hand Counted Paper Ballots NOW! Karma is a Bitch!!!

[Epiphany4z]

6. I can't believe

how many times I was told only tin foil hat types needed paper trails by republicans. I would try to explain ..it should be something both sides want...but nooooooooooooooooo not as long as they where soooo sure it was there side that would benifit....of course now all machines will have paper trails...with 100% republican support...

[tavalon]

9. Annoying but who cares how we get the paper trail

It is so needed - for all of us.

[Laelth]

10. Repukes tend to be hypocritical bastards like that.

n/t

:mad:

-Laelth

[texpatriot2004]

7. Oh you are so right

:evilgrin:

[adamuu]

8. you're right... it happened in a good way. n/t

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

11. It's really hard to find all those electrons and count them again

On a more serious note, I'd like to see the exit polling data by precinct and see if there is any differences based on how the vote was registered.

I suspect that Allen stole votes where there are DRE's.

I think Allen had the fix in, but the turnout gave Webb too much margin for them to overcome.:tinfoilhat:

[Amaryllis]

18. Someone told me that the machines are so unreliable that it's hard to even rig them and

count on them carrying out a reliable rig...that is, of course, different from altering the numbers on the tabulator.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

20. The tabulators are the easiest place to hack for sure

It is as simple as changing a few numbers in a database.

With a DRE, there is no audit trail. Once the numbers are placed in the central tabulator, there is no good way to check them against the precinct numbers during a recount, since the precint has no record other than the DRE memory cards.

If there is no audit trail, it is much easier to cheat without being caught.

As a matter of fact, if there is no audit trail, there is no way to prove to the electorate that this election was valid. An audit trail should be an absolute legal requirement for our election systems, whether they are computerized or all paper.

IMO, the best solution is to use optical scanners where you mark the circles with a pencil. That way you have a paper ballot, in the form of a scanner card that can be preserved at the precinct level. This provides a precinct by precinct audit trail if it is needed.

[Straight Shooter]

12. Hoist on their own petard.

:nuke:

[EFerrari]

13. Me, too.

:evilgrin:

[adamuu]

14. allen to concede

i guess they eventually came to the same conclusion regarding the recount.

in a way its nice to see they have made it impossible to contest elections.

but, today, everything is nice. its just a matter of degree.

[struggle4progress]

15. Well, that's still just an unprinted assertion attributed to an anonymous source

[adamuu]

16. what? what I just said?

sorry... I saw it on MSNBC
apparently some others on DU heard it too....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2604635&mesg_id=2604710
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2947621
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2604635&mesg_id=2604697

[struggle4progress]

19. I'm not sneering at you. And I'd seen some of those threads. But

nobody's quoting anybody by name yet, so I'm not counting on it yet

[adamuu]

21. oh i see. well we'll find out today hopefully. good luck. n/t

[w4rma]

17. I voted for Webb on one of those damndable things. *Paper ballots*! (nt)