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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 03:06 AM
Original message
The GOOD, the BAD, and the UGLY…Elections Forum News …
Edited on Mon Nov-13-06 04:06 AM by autorank
The GOOD…

The BAD...


And well…


18,000 votes seems to have vanished into thin air via ES&S iVotronic touch-screen machines (no paper "trails," much less countable paper ballots ) in Sarasota County, site of Florida's 13th U.S. Congressional District contest between Vern Buchanan (Rep) and Christine Jennings (Dem). There's currently a 368-vote difference between them, but there's no paper to to examine to figure out what may have gone wrong and explain how a 13% under vote rate was found in only in that race.

Ten other House races still remain "too close to call." Many of them will rely on "results."

They're (Democrats) so delighted to have won anything they haven't stopped to realize they might have taken 40 seats in the House instead of just 30 had they bothered to fight for an accountable, secure, transparent electoral system and instructed their candidates to concede nothing until every vote was counted, verified and audited for accuracy. COMPUTERWORLD. Brad Friedman

We’re not done…but we are having an impact!



We have yet to get a full read on the impact of the non computer voter suppression operations, which are huge. Denying minority voting rights is a huge part of election fraud. More on that as it comes in.


Never forget the pursuit of Truth.
Only the deluded & complicit accept election results on blind faith.
Election Reform, Fraud, & Related News November 13, 2006


All members welcome and encouraged to participate.

Please post Election Reform, Fraud, & Related News on this thread.
Please

"Recommend"

for the Greatest Page (it's the link just below).


Check www.electionfraudnews.com every now and then.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 03:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. Nation: Brad (The “BradBlog”) Friedman – Survey of one Big Election Mess

Friedman hit the cyber highway running just two days after the election with this excellent summary in COMPUTERWORLD. Thanks Brad.


Opinion: E-voting transition a disaster
Brad Friedman
COMPUTERWORLD 11.10/2006


http://tinyurl.com/yzou43

"I can't believe I'm in the United States of America," before he gave up and went home after waiting three hours in line when electronic machines broke down.



They didn't check with Bill Ritter, the Colorado gubernatorial candidate, who had to wait almost two hours to vote, or with Sean Kelley, a Denver resident, who said to the Post, "I can't believe I'm in the United States of America," before he gave up and went home without voting after waiting three hours in line when electronic machines broke down. Despite an emergency request, the courts in Colorado refused to allow the city's new consolidated "Election Centers" to remain open for extra hours that night.

On Election Day, the Electronic Frontier Foundation had received about 17,000 complaints on its toll-free hot line by 8 p.m. Common Cause received 14,000 calls by 4 p.m. John Gideon at VotersUnite.org performed the herculean task of logging as many news reports as he could in a searchable online database of reported election problems that day.



18,000 votes seems to have vanished into thin air via ES&S iVotronic touch-screen machines (no paper "trails," much less countable paper ballots ) in Sarasota County, site of Florida's 13th U.S. Congressional District contest between Vern Buchanan and Christine Jennings. There's currently a 368-vote difference between them, but there's no paper to to examine to figure out what may have gone wrong and explain how a 13% undervote rate was found in only in that race.

So, with multi-hundreds of news reports of election problems across the country -- a fraction of the problems that actually occurred -- you have to wonder what a meltdown would have to look like.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 03:10 AM
Response to Original message
2. Nation: VotersUnite John Gideon’s News Database – 200stories & growing

DUer John Gideon worked like a Trojan on election day. One of his products is this 206 and county database of news stories documenting election problems.




http://tinyurl.com/6yjyj

DUer John Gideon’s News Database –
Date Problem Type State


Vendor – Description
11/12/2006 Machine malfunction TX Hart InterCivic Nacogdoches County. Eight eSlate electronic voting machines malfunctioned on election day. One broke down while a voter was using it. Vendor technicians were called to fix it. Story Archive

11/11/2006 Machine malfunction AR ES&S Poinsett County. Candidate for mayor of Waldenburg voted for himself on the iVotronic, but the tally shows he received no votes. Eight or nine other people said they also voted for him. Story Archive

11/11/2006 Machine malfunction ID ES&S Bannock County. M100s couldn't read ballots. "voting machine malfunctions caused serious election night complications." Scanners failed to recognize the ink recommended by the manufacturer. One scanner broke down. Story Story2 Archive2

11/11/2006 Machine malfunction AR ES&S Carroll County. Officials had trouble merging totals from early voting, absentee ballots, and election day. ES&S technician didn't know how to help them. Story Archive

11/11/2006 Machine malfunction CA Sequoia Tehama County. A computer malfunction incorrectly labeled 500 paper polling-place ballots as absentee ballots. The Sequoia representative didn't know the cause of the problem. Assistant Clerk and Recorder Bev Ross said she was told machines had been incorrectly set to receive information for the wrong type of machine, although she wasn't certain of the cause Thursday. Story Archive

11/11/2006 Machine malfunction CA Mendocino County. Diebold memory cards were corrupted, losing votes counted on optical scanners. Ballots will be recounted in the canvass process. Story Archive

11/11/2006 Machine malfunction FL ES&S Charlotte, Sumter, and Lee Counties. Excessive "undervotes" in the contest for state attorney general. 21%, 22%, and 18% respectively. Officials speculate that the contest was not obvious on the ES&S iVotronic screen, but wonder why voters didn't notice the undervote on the review screen. Story Archive

• Note: In other counties using the iVotronic (Broward, Miami-Dade), voters complained that the contest did not appear on their screens.

11/11/2006 Machine malfunction IN Marion County. Doris Anne Sadler, Marion County Clerk, is unable to retrieve the votes from 520 ES&S iVotronic machines. The explanation? That is because the voting machine maker, ES&S, had programmed the machines for Pennsylvania's polls, which were open from 6:00 a.m. until 8:00 p.m. Story Archive

11/11/2006 Machine malfunction NJ Sequoia Ocean County. Votes from one Sequoia Advantage memory cartridge were counted twice "and some were also added to vote totals for the U.S. Senate, county freeholder and county sheriff races in Lakewood." The problems, officials said, all stemmed from a fault in computer software provided by Sequoia Voting Systems." Story Archive

11/11/2006 Machine malfunction NV Sequoia Nye County. Flawed programming on the Sequoia touch screen system caused tally problems. The tally program would only read header cards in precinct order, and not all the precinct numbers are used in the county. Story Archive

11/9/2006 Machine malfunction AK Diebold Anchorage. Diebold memory cards malfunctioned. Story Archive

11/9/2006 Poor design AR ES&S Faulkner County. Problems merging early voting totals with election day cause officials to call ES&S to walk them through the process. Initially, the early vote totals were added twice to the totals. Story Archive

11/9/2006 Poor design CA Sequoia Riverside and San Bernadino Counties. Printer problems caused long lines and many voters left without voting. The culprit was the limits of the printer-verification system attached to Sequoia electronic voting machines, registrar officials said. Story Archive

11/9/2006 Machine malfunction FL Sequoia Hillsborough County. An unknown cause hindered votes from being retrieved from three electronic voting machines. Sequoia technicians fixed the problem. Story Archive

11/9/2006 Machine malfunction GA Diebold Bibb County. Vote-switching on Diebold touch screens. Malfunctioning machine taken out of service. Story Archive

11/9/2006 Machine malfunction GA Diebold Bibb County. Problems reading memory cards. "The server receiving data from the memory cards had the incorrect host name and wouldn't read the information, Carr said. Technicians were able to fix the problem, which also happened during the July primary." Story Archive

11/9/2006 Malfeasance GA Diebold Bibb County. Malfunctioning Diebold machine taken out of service, put back into use when lines get long. The machine was initially shut down, but when long lines started to develop during the day, it was brought back into use, she said. Voters were told to be careful selecting their candidates and to review their ballots, she said, adding that she didn't think any voters cast incorrect ballots. Story Archive

11/9/2006 Machine malfunction KY Hart InterCivic Bell, Bullitt, Breckinridge, Henry, LaRue, Livingston, Marion, Pulaski, Union, Warren, Wayne, Webster and Woodford Counties. Scanners used to read absentee ballots weren't working properly. Story Archive

11/9/2006 Machine malfunction KY Hart InterCivic Scott, Woodford, Bourbon, Boyle, Bullitt, Daviess, Grant and Nelson Counties. Trouble combining totals from the old Danaher 1242 machines and the new Hart InterCivic eSlate machines caused headaches and long hours for election officials. Democratic House Speaker Jody Richards yesterday called the new electronic voting machines "horrible." Story Archive Story2 Archive2

11/9/2006 Machine malfunction KY Hart InterCivic Vote-switching on the Hart InterCivic eSlate e-voting machine was reported to the Attorney General. The eSlate is not a touch screen machine. Story Archive

11/9/2006 Machine malfunction ME Diebold Waterville. Diebold scanners malfunction. Results show 27,000 votes in a town with 16,000 registered voters. Story Archive

11/9/2006 Machine malfunction PA ES&S Luzerne County. Vote-switching reported on the ES&S iVotronic. Evelyn Graham, a Hazleton City Councilwoman, said she touched the box for Republican gubernatorial candidate Lynn Swann, and it highlighted as her selection. But when she moved on to the next race and picked Republican senatorial candidate Rick Santorum, Graham said she noticed that Rendell’s name had become highlighted as her selection. Graham said she returned to the governor’s race, de-selected Rendell and selected Swann. “I did it four to six times, and each time it changed back to Rendell.” ... "I do not believe that there is an honest election possible anymore with these machines." Another voter had her vote for Republican Santorum vote changed to Democrat Casey. Story Archive

11/9/2006 Poor design PA Hart InterCivic Lancaster County. A third of the county's 232 polling stations experienced malfunctions on the Hart InterCivic eScan ballot scanners. In many cases, the memory cards were test cards, not set up for election results. Story Archive

11/9/2006 Machine malfunction TN Hart InterCivic Knox County. Circuitry in a Hart InterCivic eSlate fails, calling into question over 2600 e-ballots. Knox County Election Commission Chair Pamela Reeves explains what happened to the machine. "Apparently, what it did was it smoked. I don't know what caused it to smoke, but it was literally smoking. So they unhooked it at the time. Of course, we don't read the votes and we didn't know there was a problem until we went to read the votes Tuesday night." Story Archive

11/9/2006 Poor design TX ES&S Hill County. The computer operator couldn't get the votes from paper ballots to combine with votes submitted electronically, delaying the results. The operator was an ES&S technician. Story Archive

11/9/2006 Too few ballots TX Falls County. A shortage of paper ballots forced many voters to use the eSlate e-voting machines instead, causing long lines and long waits. Story Archive

11/9/2006 Machine malfunction VA AVS Fairfax County. Vote-switching on the WINVote e-voting machines. Voters report that when they touch the screen for one U.S. Senate candidate, the other would be selected. Story Archive

11/8/2006 Machine malfunction AR ES&S Benton County. Printers in the ES&S iVotronic jammed. Story

11/8/2006 Machine malfunction AR ES&S Clark County. Unity software compiling results from the ES&S iVotronics added in the test ballots. Same thing happened in the primary. Story Archive

11/8/2006 Machine malfunction AR ES&S Sharp County. Votes tabulated on the ES&S software showed up multiple times. Some iVotronics had paper jams, delaying voting. The program glitch was allowing votes from precincts which had been counted earlier to show up on the tally sheet multiple times, as the votes from each succeeding precinct were counted. Story Archive

11/8/2006 Machine malfunction AR ES&S Benton County. Possible computer error with ES&S iVotronics. McCarthy said some indicators from the election results Tuesday led him to wonder whether the summary reports from voting machines reflected actual vote totals. He said he did not want to elaborate on what those indicators were. A recount could affect every race, he said. Story Archive

• 11/09/06 update -- The problem may be corrupted result data. Story Archive

• 11/10/06 update -- ES&S tabulation software subtracted votes as new totals were added. "Each time the election workers submit new precincts, votes already recorded were lost." The corrected totals show a change in the outcomes of 8 races. Story Archive

• 11/11/06 update -- Questions remain as some towns report more votes than the entire population of the town. Others report unusually low turnout. The countywide turnout is reported at 83%, which many agree is not believable. McCarthy is working with ES&S to determine what has happened. Story Archive Story2 Archive2

11/8/2006 Machine malfunction AR ES&S Lawrence County. Undefined problems with the ES&S iVotronics forced some voters to use paper ballots. Story Archive

11/8/2006 Machine malfunction CA Diebold San Diego County. Paper jams on the Diebold touch screen machines in Vista. Story

11/8/2006 Machine malfunction CA Across the state: "Voters ran into a veritable zoo of problems at polls across California, from power outages to jammed ballot scanners to electronic voting machines designed for access to disabled voters that either wouldn't work or weren't handicapped accessible. Problems with touch screens and electronic ballot marking devices were reported in San Joaquin, San Diego, San Bernardino, Orange, Sacramento and Contra Costa counties, representing the products of every major voting machine vendor." Story Archive

11/8/2006 Machine malfunction CA Diebold San Joachin County. Diebold touch screens malfunctioned and polling places ran out of English ballots. Story Archive

11/8/2006 Machine malfunction CA Sequoia Santa Clara County. Five Sequoia Edge touch screens broke down. Story Archive Personnel Experience

11/8/2006 Machine malfunction CA Diebold Marin County - San Francisco. Scanners wouldn't accept the first page of the ballot. Story

11/8/2006 E-Poll book malfunction CO Denver. E-poll books failed, computers crashed and voting machines broke down across the city, causing long lines and waits up to three hours. Story Archive Computer glitches prevented thousands of residents from voting, piles of absentee ballots are still to be counted, and Denver Auditor Dennis Gallagher today asked that Denver's two elected voting commissioners - Susan Roger and Sandy Adams - resign and that the mayor fire Clerk and Recorder Wayne Vaden as well as the entire senior staff of the election commission, including executive director John Gaydeski. Story Archive

11/8/2006 Too few machines CO Hart InterCivic Douglas County. The county's 300 eSlates weren't enough to handle the turnout with such a long ballot, says the County Clerk in an apology to the voters. 200 more are needed to avoid long lines. Story Archive

11/8/2006 Machine malfunction FL ES&S Sarasota County. The Jennings-Buchanan Congressional race was impacted by ES&S iVotronics malfunctions. The race did not show up on some screens, and dozens of voters complained that their selections did not appear on the review screen. There were more than 18,000 undervotes in that contest, while the contest above and below it on the ballot had fewer than 2000 undervotes. Story Archive Jennings attorneys say the law allows a recount for the small margin (less than 1/4%), and they believe machine problems caused a loss of votes. Story Archive

• 11-9-06 Update. While the touch screen undervote in the Jenning-Buchanan race was 13% in the county, paper absentee ballots showed a 1.8% undervote in that race. Story

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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 03:15 AM
Response to Original message
3. Nation: ESS, largest vendor, has nationwide problem - DROPPING VOTES!!!

This is the company in which Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, Nebraska (no relation to the German philosopher) held significant shares when he ran for office the first and second ties. He beat the Democrat 85% to 15% in that second race. Damn, he’s good. But apparently the company has a few problems…but not in the Senator’s race.


ES&S VOTING MACHINES FAIL AGAIN: More Votes than Voters in Arkansas, Thousands of Votes Missing in Florida and Zero Votes Recorded for One Mayoral Candidate
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=3780
Paperless iVotronic Touch-screen Systems Report Unprecedented Voter Turnout in one AR County, Thousands of Undervotes in U.S. House, Attorney General Race in Four FL Counties

Zero Votes Recorded on ES&S System for Mayoral Candidate in Small Town


Orlando Sentinel's coverage on Friday began with these incredible words :

Touch-screen-voting machines in at least four Florida counties recorded unusually high percentages of ballots with no votes in Tuesday's election — a sign that new electronic-ballot machines may not be as foolproof as hoped.

"Not as foolproof as hoped"?!

Just who exactly are the fools they're referring to there?

Electronic voting machines made by ES&S, the largest supplier of voting systems in the country, failed across the country on Election Day. We're beginning to see more and more of the results of the failures from those machines — as "foolproof", apparently, as the Titanic was "unsinkable".

An unprecedented 83% voter turnout has been reported from ES&S iVotronic paperless touch-screen systems in Benton County, Arkansas after the Election Commission reviewed it's balloting when it was found that tabulated votes were being dropped from the system as new votes were being entered into it on Tuesday night.

The results: More votes than citizens in several areas of Benton County and an overall turnout described as "eye-popping" by a University of Arkansas political science professor who pointed to Idaho's 63% turnout as having made news for a midterm election record. Idaho's got nothing on Benton County, apparently.

Four different Florida counties are reporting enormous undervote rates on the same type of ES&S iVotronic paperless touch-screen systems in at least one key U.S. House race and in their election for State Attorney General.

And in one small town, ES&S voting machines are reporting zero votes for a mayoral candidate who swears that, yes, he really did vote for himself!

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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 03:16 AM
Response to Original message
4. CO; What Went Wrong in Denver?
Edited on Mon Nov-13-06 03:16 AM by autorank
What a mess. People are very upset. The rolled out large voting centers and they did NOT work. Smart…nice research…


susan barnes-gelt
What went wrong in Denver


By Susan Barnes-Gelt
Article Last Updated:11/11/2006 03:33:28 AM MST

Maybe Denver Mayor John Hickenlooper ought to ask the neighbors for advice.

The breakdown of Denver's voting and ballot-counting system last week was the big story of the election, and in the aftermath Hickenlooper declared "enough is enough," demanding quick answers and solutions.

As usual, the mayor will appoint a business-dominated task force to address the issue.

Instead, the mayor should drive west on Sixth Avenue and meet with Jefferson County officials. He might learn how the state's second-largest county managed to report 81 percent of its election returns Tuesday night while Denver was reporting 2 percent.

Both counties had to meet the same federal mandates for disabled access. Both used electronic voting machines. Both experienced big turnout.

The answer is Jefferson County did not use vote centers. Instead, it stuck with neighborhood and local voting centers with old-fashioned poll books instead of electronic voter rolls.


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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 03:17 AM
Response to Original message
5. CO: Demand for Investigation of Voting System Crack Up

Great editorial…and a call for an INVESTIGATION…yes!!!!


The damage is done; time for an investigation
The Daily Press 11/13/06


http://tinyurl.com/v3yev

Daily Press Editorial

Next week, Montrose County citizens may know the unofficial results of Tuesday’s election. The wreckage of last week’s voting process will reverberate. And it should. Citizens have every right to trust their ballot will be counted correctly. Like it or not, doubt lingers.


The city of Montrose announced Friday the call for an independent investigation of the county clerk’s office and how it manages elections. Tuesday’s election debacle — where machines malfunctioned, where voters frustrated by long waits walked away without voting, where ballots were printed on a copy machine — affects the city because of municipal tax issues that were voted upon. The Town of Olathe, too, had a dog in the fight with its 2A/town administrator vote. Ditto the Montrose Regional Library District (West End/Naturita) and West End Schools Re-2.


All of these governmental entities pushed issues before voters. Most of the races had clear winners, but that’s not the point. The point is trust and accountability and today, those virtues of government are damaged. We urge the county commissioners and county managers to accept the call for an independent investigation.

Another issue is the dissemination of results. We published stories that by Wednesday evening, only 58 percent of the votes were counted. That was a figure given the Daily Press by county elections supervisor Debbie Rudy. Now a few days and much-needed sleep later, that 58 percent figure was the turnout total. When the election staff went home Wednesday, most of the votes had been counted, says Ms. Rudy. We hope the investigation will address this breakdown in communication as well.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 03:19 AM
Response to Original message
6. ID: 50 State Strategy!!! Democrats Take on Idaho Elections Officials
ID: 50 State Strategy!!! Democrats Take on Idaho Elections Officials
These Idaho Democrats sound like the Alaska Democrats who demanded and continue to demand 2004 ballots and voting records. You go Idaho and thanks Dr. Dean for the 50 state strategy.

Dems critical of Idaho election officials
11/09/06 Casper Star Tribune


By REBECCA BOONE
Associated Press writer Thursday, November 09, 2006
http://tinyurl.com/yzqoay
BOISE, Idaho -- Problem pens, broken scanners, low supplies and long lines plagued some of Idaho's polling stations on Election Day, prompting some political candidates to compare the state's woes to a more infamous election in the south.

"This is like a Third World country. This is like Miami in 2000," said Democrat Jerry Brady, who lost the governor's seat to Republican C.L. "Butch" Otter on Tuesday. "We should make this more easy."


State election officials say final turnout figures won't be known until canvassing of votes takes place, but they were confident it would approach the predicted 63 percent, the highest in a non-presidential election since 1994.

The slowest vote counts came from eastern Idaho's Bannock County, where optical scan readers failed to recognize the ink used to mark ballots. The county was using the Bic pens recommended by the company that makes the scanner, Idaho Secretary of State Chief Deputy Tim Hurst said, but the machines still didn't work.

Once the problem was discovered, the thousands of unread ballots were handed over to a resolution board, which included a Republican and a Democratic representative, Hurst said. They marked over each ink spot with a blue highlighter -- allowing the voter's original mark to show through -- and fed it through the machines again, Hurst said.j
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 03:20 AM
Response to Original message
7. TX: Republican and Democrat in Runoff

Ciro Rodruguez is a true grass roots Democrat. He wrangled a runoff with legendary Republican Henry Bonilla in San Antonio. Texas needs Rodriguez. Good luck!!! This is an old fashioned runoff. We’ll watch it closely.


Ciro facing a new ballgame in District 23 runoff
San Atonio Express News 11/12/06


http://tinyurl.com/ye3jpz

Greg Jefferson
Express-News Staff

Democrat Ciro Rodriguez swears he's knocked on doors on nearly every street of San Antonio's South and West sides in his three rocky decades in politics. Often enough, his wife, Carolina, has been by his side.

But political analysts say there are too many doors in the 23rd Congressional District, where the 59-year-old is challenging longtime incumbent Republican Rep. Henry Bonilla in a December runoff. Rodriguez's old-school approach to campaigning, they say, could crumple against Bonilla's well-funded modern operation.

Snip


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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 03:21 AM
Response to Original message
8. Connecticut Coincidence - TruthIsAll Calculates the Odds

Look, Democrat Lamont had the same vote total as Lieberman’s last opponent. OK, that makes no sense. Now TIA gives us the odds. :evilgrin:


http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/fe2000/2000senate.htm#CT
http://www.fec.gov/pubrec/fe2000/2000senate.htm#CT

http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006/pages/results/states/CT/S/01/index.html
http://tinyurl.com/vsvmx

From TRUTHISALL:

Determine the probability that Lamont would receive exactly the same number of votes as Lieberman's opponent in 2000.

The probability is 1 in 17,191.



Assuming a 3% MoE, the probability is 95% that the recorded
votes will fall within the High-Low range {Votes-3%, Votes +3%}.

Votes:
Lieberman--562,850 (High: 579,736 – Low: 545,965) Difference: 33,771
Lamont-- 448,077 (High 461,519 – Low: 434,635) Difference: 26,885

Total Votes 1,130,817
__________________________________________________________

Assumptions:

1) The final pre-election poll exactly matched the final vote.
2) The polling Margin of Error was 3% (95% confidence interval).

Method: (Do it yourself if you have Excel)

Use the Excel normal distribution function (NORMDIST) to determine the
probability Lamont would receive exactly 448,077 votes.

Step1:

Calculate the standard deviation based on the 3% MoE at the 95%
confidence level (1.96 standard deviations from the mean).

Stdev = 6858 = MoE * 448077 / 1.96 = .03*448077/1.96

Step2:

Calculate the probability using NORMDIST.
The probability of getting EXACTLY 448,077 votes:

Prob = NORMDIST(448077,448077, 6858, FALSE) = 0.00582%

The probability is 1 in 17,191.

HERE'S A COMPREHENSIVE ELECTION 2004 SITE:
POLLING DATA, ANALYSIS, DISCUSSION
and
THE EXCEL INTERACTIVE ELECTION MODEL
http://www.truthisall.net/
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. This Lamont thing is apparently a prank so disregard the above.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Disregard only if you presume its true. The probability analysis is excellent.
Edited on Mon Nov-13-06 12:22 PM by autorank
And that's the point. If this had happened, and it that's either been demonstrated or in serious questions, the point of the exercise above by TIA is valid in terms of determining probabilities.

Just a clarification. I didn't take the entire clalim that seriously, hence the capricious nature of the post here but apparently others are quite upset regarding a possible "prank." That is beside the point. The illustration above is deermining probabilities etc.

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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 03:25 AM
Response to Original message
9. Mexico: For Democracy “Day of the Dead in Oaxaca” Amazing!!!
Edited on Mon Nov-13-06 03:26 AM by autorank
This is how democracy works in Mexico. First they steal the election from your candidate - who won (Obrador) - then they shoot you when you demand democracy. Anybody says that was a clean election – remind them of this. Permission to reprint.


Day of the Dead in Oaxaca


Laura Carlsen | November 1, 2006
http://americas.irc-online.org/am/3665

Americas Program, International Relations Center (IRC)
americas.irc-online.org


Dear friends,

At this moment the Mexican Federal Police are trying to retake the University in Oaxaca, where protestors have a stronghold and have been operating a radio station crucial to their movement. The fighting is fierce-the police are launching tear gas from the ground and from helicopters (it was impact from gas grenades that killed at least one protestor in past days), and using high pressure water hoses on tanks to beat back the people. They are entering private houses and people fear the kind of vengeance attacks as seen in Atenco earlier this year. The determination and resistance of the APPO is strong though, and they have called out sympathizers to join them. Radio APPO continues to broadcast a blow-by-blow account. Please take the time to send a message to President Fox (in English or Spanish, see contact info below) to CEASE THE REPRESSION IMMEDIATELY and calling for the resignation of the governor of Oaxaca, Ulises Ruiz.

Presidente Vicente Fox Quesada
Phone: 52 552 789 1100 / Fax: 52 555 277 2376
E-mail: vicente.fox.quesada@presidencia.gob.mx

Licenciado Carlos Abascal Carranza, Secretario de Gobernación
Fax: +52 (55) 5093 3414
cabascal@segob.gob.mx

Copy to Newspapers:
www.lajornada.unam.mx
www.eluniversal.com.mx
www.milenio.com/mexico


Today, November 1, is the Day of the Dead. It's the day that Mexicans flock to the cemeteries to visit family members that have passed on. Or if you believe the traditions, to wait for the dead to visit them.

This year among the dead are 17 people killed in Oaxaca. They are dead because they dared to challenge a political and economic system that bound them to poverty and powerlessness. Most were assassinated by forces affiliated with the state governor, Ulises Ruiz. Some, whose blood has still not dried, were murdered by federal police sent in “to restore order” on October 28.


A man open fires on an APPO (democracy supporters)
barricade on Calicanto street in Oaxaca, Mexico.


The movement in Oaxaca began on May 15, national Teachers' Day, when state members of the education workers' union mobilized to protest against the latest imposition of a contract negotiated between corporatist leaders of their national union and the government. They asked for a pay raise and initiated a sit-in in Oaxaca City's central plaza.

There was nothing unusual in their action. Section 22, the teachers' union in Oaxaca, has historically been a bastion of the decades-old democratic movement to free the national union from the control of leaders tied to the country's most powerful political figures.
But their protest sparked a wildfire when Governor Ruiz sent in armed security forces to evict them. The deaths as a result of the repression enraged a society already angry at what many viewed as a stolen gubernatorial election. Ulises Ruiz is an old-style politician from the Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI) that ruled Mexico single-handedly for 71 years and still exercises control over parts of the Oaxacan countryside through violent party bosses. Over 350 organizations grouped to form the Popular Assembly of the Peoples of Oaxaca (APPO).

Suddenly there was no middle ground in Oaxaca. Indigenous communities mobilized by their own grievances, students, professionals sick of the pretence of democracy, vendors, and workers, joined ranks with the teachers to demand the ouster of the governor.
Oaxaca is among Mexico's poorest states. It's also among the most organized from the grassroots. Oaxacans have a reputation for stubbornness, and their resistance to successive forms of domination has continued for over 500 years. Their movements long ago learned to grow in the rocky soil left after everything valuable was systematically taken from them.

Now they have emerged not just to protest, but to build. Networks of solidarity, autonomous forms of communication, and spontaneous expressions of frustration and hope have come together to form what Luis Hernandez Navarro, a founder of the democratic teachers' union, calls the “Oaxaca Commune” in reference to the Paris Commune of 1871.


Brad Will, an American journalist from Indymedia New York,
lies on the ground after being shot during the October 27 attack
on an APPO barricade in the municipality of Santa Lucia del Camino.
Will died while being carried away from the area.


But just as a re-alliance of the ruling class brought down the Paris Commune, the alliance between the rightwing National Action Party (PAN) and the PRI has launched an offensive against the popular movement in Oaxaca. It began as a war of attrition, with several protestors killed by plainclothes gunmen a week in an undercover dirty war that included kidnappings, torture, and selective assassination. With the entry of the Federal Police, repression now wears uniforms—about 4,000 of them. The national politicians know that Oaxaca means more than a state struggle for teachers' pay raise. The battle for Oaxaca is the first of the administration of Felipe Calderon, although he does not take office until Dec. 1. As the president-elect woos leaders of foreign countries (he recently returned from South America and next meets with Bush), the home front is far from calm. Protests against fraud in the July 2 federal elections continue, other sections of the national teachers' union are threatening work stoppages in solidarity with Oaxaca, and the APPO has announced that if troops have not been withdrawn it will disrupt the inauguration.

Both chambers of Congress have voted to ask the governor to step down. In Mexico City thousands have marched and participated in roadblocks in solidarity with Oaxaca.
In Oaxaca, over thirty movement leaders are in prison and others kidnapped. Altars to the dead have been constructed in the city to pay homage to those killed by police and snipers over the past four months. The movement for democracy and economic fairness in Oaxaca has rebaptized one of Mexico's most hallowed holidays. This year, the protesters have proclaimed it “the day of no more dead.”

Laura Carlsen is director of the IRC Americas Program (www.americaspolicy.org) in Mexico City, where she has been a writer and political analyst for more than two decades.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Mexico: Oaxaca Democracy Movement Fights Back (Excellent badkground)

Background from a highly knowledgeable and reliable source. Permission to reprint.


ZNet | Mexico 11/12/2006

Oaxaca Fights Back


by Laura Carlsen; Foreign Policy in Focus;



In regional lore, Oaxacans have a reputation for being like the tlacuache. A recurring figure in Mexican mythology, the tlacuache plays dead when cornered. But woe to the enemy who thinks the battle is over. The small but fierce creature merely awaits a more propitious moment to fight back.

<}The Oaxacan protest movement burns slow, but deep. Oaxacan teachers, who mobilized for a pay raise last May, consciously built on years of protest against social inequality in their state. On June 14, the state government goaded the Oaxacan tlacuachewhen it attempted to evict protesting teachers from Oaxaca's central plaza. Oaxacans responded by forming the broad-based Popular Assembly of the Peoples of Oaxaca (APPO). The federal government confronted the growing movement on October 28 when it sent thousands of federal police to occupy the city. The murders, wounding, and disappearance of the protestors have only deepened the resolve of the movement as a whole. [/div>

Although the stage was set for confrontation, the movement continued to insist on non-violence. They lay down in front of advancing tanks and distributed flowers to riot-geared cops. On November 2, a crucial battle took place when the police attempted to retake the university. Inside the university, the radio station that has been the backbone of the protest organizing over the past five months was under siege the entire day. Radio APPO did not cease to broadcast and the people did not cease to defend it, despite the grossly uneven odds against them.

“Our eyes are burning with tear gas, but at least now we can see the government for what it really is,” a young woman commented over the air in a voice filled with urgency and determination. “We're not budging.”

[]People all over the world heard her. Radio APPO streamed through the computers of listeners who followed the battle for the university in blow-by-blow accounts. They instantly activated networks to plan their own protests. Within days, demonstrators gathered in front of Mexican consulates and embassies in the United States and Europe, calling for an end to police repression of the movement. People whose names are well known throughout the world wrote and published letters, and people whose names have been printed only in phone books signed petitions. In a small town in Italy, hundreds of young people gathered to discuss North-South cooperation and declare their solidarity with Oaxaca, and in New York several protesters were arrested in front of the Mexican consulate. The Zapatista Other Campaign mobilized a binational roadblock on the Mexico-U.S. border. The list of actions worldwide goes on and on.


Both houses of the Mexican congress and the secretary of the interior, who is charged with domestic policy, have called for Oaxacan Governor Ulises Ruiz to step down. Despite the breakdown of governance in the state, he has refused saying it is his duty to hold on to his job. On November 5, the movement mobilized tens of thousands of people in a march through Oaxaca. In the pre-dawn hours of November 6, bombs exploded in the offices of the electoral tribunal, the Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI), and an international bank. No one was killed or injured, but the tension rose several notches. Several guerrilla groups claimed responsibility for the acts, demanding the resignation of the governor, freedom for political prisoners held following police repression in the town of Atenco, and investigation of the charges of electoral fraud.

The APPO immediately condemned the bombings and repeated that it has no relations with guerrilla groups. It has continued to try to negotiate a peaceful settlement of its demands. In the turbid political atmosphere following Mexico's presidential elections on July 2, Oaxaca's conflict has now catalyzed a series of events that threaten Mexico's stability.

Why Oaxaca?

The mountains of Oaxaca became the refuge of pre-Columbian civilizations that were never fully conquered. The history of resistance and persistence that developed there permitted the survival of cultures that bucked a colonizing mentality and rejected tacitly or explicitly the wholesale imposition of colonial political systems. At the same time, to subjugate the rebels required some of the nation's most brutal forms of repression. Many of these remain fundamentally intact to this day. The governor, whose resignation has become the principal demand of the current Oaxacan insurrection, has inherited the mantle of this centuries-old tradition of repression.

Oaxaca is a land of many peoples. The state encompasses 16 languages within its borders and has the nation's largest number of municipalities (570), in large part due to the determination to preserve and strengthen local self-government. Even in Oaxaca City, where fighting between police and protesters has transformed the urban landscape, diversity precludes any easy characterization. Mixtecos converge with Martians (the local name for the city's large population of foreign artists, writers, pensioners, and NGO workers), tourists with beggars, the rich with the poor.

This diversity, which in another context could fragment a social movement, has become the wealth and collective strength of Mexico's most important social justice rebellion in recent years. Oaxacan teachers have drawn on over 26 years of experience in the democratic teachers' movement. Section 22, the group of Oaxacan teachers organized in the National Education Workers Union (SNTE by its Spanish initials), has long been a stronghold of the democratic faction of the union. For years its leaders have been elected from this dissident faction and have become leaders in Oaxaca's social movements beyond the union as well.

Oaxaca's rebellion also has roots in the battles of the indigenous communities for autonomy and, since the 1970s, for the restoration of communitarian forms of self-government, collective work, and identity. Added to the mix has been the anger of a new generation of high school and university students sick of getting short shrift from governments impoverished by structural adjustment and corruption. And as a final ingredient in a recipe for rebellion, citizens sensitized to the injustice expressed in daily life rose up against a disputed gubernatorial election that seemed to doom their society to more of the same or worse.

Leading Edge

The significance of the Oaxacan movement to Mexico is obvious. It is the first challenge to a federal government with little legitimacy or credibility, elected amid charges of fraud last July. Although Felipe Calderon takes office on December 1, the rules of Mexican politics dictate that all major, and especially very visible, decisions like the repression of the Oaxacan movement must at least be approved by him. The government's decision to send in federal police is in part based on a desire not to pass on a problem to a weak president who lacks the political capacity to resolve it.

The frustrations that led to the formation of the Popular Assembly of the Peoples of Oaxaca (APPO) exist throughout the country. Elections that fail to reflect the popular will, inequalities that sunder communities, brutality and corruption that flourish with impunity—no region is immune from the kind of social unrest that gave birth to the Oaxacan movement. Many Mexicans openly celebrate each victory of the Oaxacans, and each day they maintain the resistance. Knowing this, the government seeks to repress the movement without conceding political ground, so as not to provide a dangerous precedent in a system that relies on the complacency of the political and economic have-nots.

But why do other people care? Does Oaxaca have a meaning beyond an inspirational tale for those who aspire to a more just world?
If the movement for global justice were a territorial battle, Oaxaca would be a tiny point on a very large map, of little consequence except to the people involved. But symbolic battles, although very real for the combatants themselves, are the true terrain of the movement for global justice. They offer an opportunity, even when lost, to defeat the myths that uphold the system.

Oaxaca is the South of the South. It is the truth to the lie that Mexico has joined the First World by grabbing onto the coattails of the United States through the North American Free Trade Agreement. The failure of this integration strategy in Oaxaca and other southern states in Mexico was so obvious that even a recent World Bank report felt obliged to address the issue. Its conclusion—“the southern states did not benefit from NAFTA because they were not prepared to reap the benefits of free trade”—was foregone and surprised no one who has studied the Bank's blame-the-victim logic. If forced to do an evaluation of globalization in general, defenders of neoliberalism would no doubt castigate the entire global South for this supposed failure. Needless to say, it is of little consolation to the hungry, the displaced, the disenfranchised, and the discarded.

The Oaxacan rebellion is proof that for many people, even physical preservation can become secondary to fighting for a conviction. With only the raw material of their own lives in their hands, they have set out to mold a different future. Although demands today center on the governor's resignation and fair pay for teachers, the new forms of organization and consciousness created will endure long after this movement and become the seeds of future movements.

They will also be the seeds of popular rebellions in other places. The Oaxacan rebellion is a reminder that an evaluation of the consequences of free trade and globalization is indeed overdue — and that the World Bank has no right to be the evaluator. The people who have suffered the consequences should evaluate the system. Too often in the North, the reports of protest and rebellion around the world are seen as disparate battles or isolated complaints and not as part of a growing consensus that something is gravely wrong. Those who have benefited from free trade rules, especially those living in countries that designed these rules, have a responsibility to get the message.
What could have been a local conflict has detonated a national confrontation and contributed to the revival of violent factions. The government's lack of political will has blocked real negotiations. It has failed to respond to Oaxaca's valid demands and open up talks on the reforms needed to assure Mexico's peace and stability. Instead, the country is now perilously close to the opposite.

Laura Carlsen is director of the IRC Americas Program in Mexico City, where she has worked as a writer and political analyst for the past two decades. The Americas Program is online at http://americas.irc-online.org/.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 03:29 AM
Response to Original message
11. FL: Sarasota Recount 18,000 ballots lost, Republican wins by a hair...roflmao
Hey, what’s 18,000 votes. The voters don’t care, it’s only Katherine Harris’ old district…and, oops, the Republican won by a hair. What a surprise.


Work begins for recount 11/12/06
Sarasota Herald.



By PAUL QUINLAN and TODD RUGER
STAFF WRITERS

http://tinyurl.com/v43nj

SARASOTA – (Republican Buchanan wins by only 373 votes over Democrat Jennings in 13 Congressional District, Patricia Harris’ old seat. 18,000 votes eaten by machines.).

Supervisor of Elections Kathy Dent, meanwhile, prepared for Monday's recount, and the

But Jennings, a Democrat, has claimed widespread voter disenfranchisement.

She points to more than 18,000 ballots that showed no choice in the congressional race, a nearly 13 percent undervote she blames on the ballot's layout and the failure of the paperless, touch-screen machines to record votes.


Sarasota County was alone in having such a large undercount.


"What we don't know is the cause, so we're trying to document the symptoms to determine what caused this system wide failure."

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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 07:50 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Can a re-vote be called and the "results" of the first "election" be
nullified?
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 03:30 AM
Response to Original message
12. MD: US Attorney’s Office Tries to Chill Election Fraud in Pre-Election Statement

We need to keep an eye on this. They promise to look into everything but lets keep an eye on it. This may have been a back fire operation to challenge Demorats on a win in Maryland.


U.S. Attorney's Office: We're ready to investigate election fraud
Baltimore Business Journal - November 1, 2006



by Robert J. Terry
Staff
http://tinyurl.com/y49ma2

In a preemptive move that underscores the highly partisan and tightly contested races for public office that will be decided next week, the Maryland U.S. Attorney's office said Wednesday that federal prosecutors and FBI agents are prepared to review and investigate allegations of election fraud.

A federal task force has been formed to look into any allegations of ballot forgery or theft, voter intimidation, campaign finance violations and corruption, among other federal election crimes, Maryland U.S. Attorney Rod J. Rosenstein said in a statement.

The task force has consulted with Maryland Elections Administrator Linda H. Lamone, Attorney General J. Joseph Curran and Special Prosecutor Robert A. Rohrbaugh on how it will handle fraud or voting rights violations, and will have a team of federal prosecutors and FBI agents at the ready while polls are open Nov. 7.

"Our goal is to prevent election fraud and preserve public confidence in the integrity of the democratic process," Rosenstein said in a statement. "Fair elections are the foundation of American government. Because elections involve high stakes and strong emotions, allegations of wrongdoing frequently arise. We will review all allegations in a nonpartisan manner and pursue any evidence that warrants criminal prosecution."

Such a move isn't unprecedented; the U.S. Department of Justice has long mobilized its resources in election years to quell electoral corruption, said Marcy Murphy, public affairs specialist for the U.S. Attorney's Office.

But Murphy also conceded "a lot of people are talking" about voter fraud in Maryland, and Rosenstein and his top prosecutors want to get the word out: We're ready to investigate wrongdoing.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 03:31 AM
Response to Original message
13. FL: F’ is for Fraud in Florida
Oops, just assumed this was election fraud. Can you blame me.




F' is for fraud in Florida
November 12, 2006



The Florida Gators will be the No. 3 team in the country in this week's BCS rankings. If the BCS isn't enough of an embarrassment, the notion that Florida is the third-best team in the country is not just embarrassing -- it's appalling.

Sure, their record says they are. The computers say they're a great team. Urban Meyer thinks his team is worthy of championship consideration, and the pollsters will reward it because four of the teams ranked around Florida lost this week.

However, anyone -- and this means anyone that has any football knowledge at all -- knows the Florida Gators are a complete fraud. They simply have no business winning week after week. They are winning by the slimmest of margins and are making a galling amount of mistakes. This is an allegedly great team, but great teams don't do that.

I have no problem with a team winning a hard-fought 17-14, 24-21 type of game if you play well and it's a close football game between two evenly matched teams. I have no regard for margin of victory, but when I evaluate teams in any sport, I look beyond the score and bottom line. I look inside the soul and the guts of a team.

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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 03:55 AM
Response to Original message
14. DU: And don’t forget TIA’s Vote Fraud Model..it’s looking very good.
Edited on Mon Nov-13-06 03:59 AM by autorank


Analysis: A Formula for Catching Election Fraud
Tuesday, 7 November 2006, 5:17 pm
Article: Michael Collins

PROTECTING THE DEMOCRATIC VOTE: Part 3
A Formula for Catching Election Fraud


Democrats Should Take Up To 40 House Seats And 6 In The Senate

Michael Collins and TruthIsAll
“Scoop” Independent News
Washington, DC
http:tinyurl.com/y2o4qn
Part 1(10/26)Part 2(10/31)

VOTE FRAUD MODEL - TruthIsAll
• Determine the level of fraud required to reverse the true vote (assumed equal to the final poll)
• The level of fraud is based on two components: uncounted votes and switched votes.
• Approximately 3% of total votes cast are never counted (lost, stolen, residual ballots)
• The majority of uncounted ballots are located in minority districts.



Applying this model to the probable – possible wins by the Democrats against incumbent Republicans (see chart below) 14 likely wins emerge outside of the fraud margin, but 27 seats remain within the Margin of Fraud as defined above. These require careful monitoring and analysis. They are critical targets if the plan unfolds to keep the House at any cost.



This table represents the races to watch, target for support and monitor post election. Every win on the right side of the blue line is a victory for the Democrats and more importantly for democracy. Holding fair elections isn’t that complicated. As a result, any meltdowns, supply shortages, switched votes, voter intimidation, etc. etc., take place in these districts need to be questioned and examined thoroughly.


What can be done?

This question has been answered already by the absence of action over the past two years. Those concerned about the security and sanctity of our elections were told that voter verified paper ballots were the solution. These purported auxiliary ballots pop out of the touch screen voting machines. They verify only what is printed on them and but not necessarily the votes that have been cast (the computer can record whatever it is programmed to record and print a separate item as a verification). Due to widely varying but almost always restrictive recount laws, they are not likely to be used at any time in the near future to settle the outcome of an election. There are 13 states with both verified paper ballots for touch screen voting machines and a mandates to use them. We should watch closely and see if those original 13 are exempt from the anticipated problems on election day.

We are in an era of inherently unverifiable election results both in actual fact and in the public perception. Thus, any result can be challenged for any number of reasons, most of which cannot be investigated. The computer voting process typically eliminates any ballot record other than that stored on the voting machine. The only evidence of voter intent is recorded in secret in the voting machine which, like any computer, can be programmed to do just about anything with that ballot record.

Given the tentativeness of the election process, we need to bring the best analysis to bear, expose glaring problems, and demand investigations immediately. This article is the final of a three part series on election 2006. Mathematician and prolific internet poster TruthIsAll’s provides a forecast of probable wins for the House and Senate by the Democrats. In addition, he offers a clear method of analyzing election results and provides methods of identifying possible/probably instances of election fraud.

Ask yourself these two questions…

How many election challenges have you seen in your life? How many of those were initiated by the candidates involved?


It is clear that in order to clean up our election system and ensure free and fair elections that include all of those eligible without hindrance; the citizens are the responsible parties for change. The politicians have their own agenda as do the parties. It is up to each of us to make political process work in a way that produces vastly different results. Neglect of the process has given us a President who advocates torture as a national policy, invades nations without any real justification, ignores the environment, and, as his first Elections Assistance Commissioner pointed out, shows no respect for the election process. It is now time for the people to take responsibility for the conduct and outcome of the elections that have such great influence over their lives.


***** ENDS ******


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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Personally I know of two people who would have contested
Their loss in Marin County CA - But Registrar of Voters wanted on the order of $ 161 000 for a recount of 101,000 votes
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. That ought to be a crime that has mandatory time.
Preventing the determination of the people's will. It's an outrage.

Amazing.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Yeah and in one of the races
The absentee ballots to eight hundred people did not arrive in time - according to the ROV because the printer made a boo boo

Local voting activists are right on top of this - and things should be better within six months (Both candidates who wanted recounts were in races of six months ago or earlier...)
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Erechtheides Donating Member (126 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
21. hmm
If Katherine Harris isn't The Ugly with a capital "The," well, I just don't know what is.
For the record, I think bashing politicians for their appearance is generally tacky.
But let's face it, so is having that much work done.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. It's a take off on the Clint Eastwood movie of the exact same name.
I could care less what politicians look like, it was a little humor, which is oddly out of style on a forum occupied by people who've had their first major political victory in six years. You should see the movie, it's a classic (but not a comedy).
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Erechtheides Donating Member (126 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Uhm...
I've seen the movie. I was making a joke about how trashy Katherine Harris is.

When I said it was in bad taste to dis politicians for their looks, I was referring to my own comment.

Sensitive much?
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Yep,I am.
Edited on Mon Nov-13-06 09:28 PM by autorank
It's been a bad day at the ranch. No offense intended. Speaking of trashy, here's one for you.

Florida Senator Mel Martinez is being talked about for head of RNC. http://tinyurl.com/vdvbq I presume, but may be wrong, that if he takes that, he'll resign from the Senate and the new Republican Governor Crist will appoint the replacement. Two choices a) Katherine Harris or b) Jeb Bush. Jeb is the logical choice in my hypothetical but, I suspect that you and I would both prefer a scenario that would invoke strong flash backs of "Twin Peaks," The Honorable Katherine Harris, the Junior Senator from Florida.

It doesn't get much better...

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Erechtheides Donating Member (126 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-14-06 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Hope today is better for you! (n/t)
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-14-06 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. It is...forgot tosay WELCOME TO DU!!! n/t
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Erechtheides Donating Member (126 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-14-06 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Thank you. (n/t)
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
22. autorank - we are NOT done is right...


but we sure are feeling GOOD!!!
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. You and I are...that's for sure.
We're not done until there is enough awareness to make any election fraud unacceptable.

We don't spend enough time on the race and class based fraud - voter suppression through intimidation, cumbersome regulation, deliberate lies,etc. And then there's the grand daddy of election fraud, felon disenfranchisement. The racists who dismembered Reconstruction in the old South enacted a series of laws to greatly reduce the black vote. Their inventions included the poll tax, literacy test, and the elimination of the right to vote for felons and ex felons. Well, you can be sure that they arrested and convicted many black males for "felonies," thus taking their right to vote...forever. In Virginia we bear the disgrace of 300,000 black males unable to voe due to this stupid law. They've all served their time, "paid their debt to society," and they'll never vote. Only 10% committed crimes involving any type of violence (not that you should be excluded for that if you're a citizen). In florida the number is 700,000.

Who benefits?
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