Nader at the beginning of this election said be patient you will see

[rainy]

Low and behold he is in the middle of the recounts? Could it be that he had this in mind all the time? Nader is not the enemy. He is like the good father who still loves us even when we dissed him.

[McCamy Taylor]

1. naw, nader's consumer protection side is just kicking in...

...welcome back the Ralphie we used to know and love. You keep America safe from corrupt businesses and let someone else do the politics.

[Skwmom]

4. Since politicians have become so corrupt and pro-corporate

who exactly is he supposed to leave the politics to?

It was Nader who spoke out against NAFTA and the GATT agreement which our idiot and corrupt politicians voted for w/out reading.

[senseandsensibility]

2. Whew, that's quite a conclusion

to jump to! Obviously, I can't prove that you're wrong, but I heard Nader on Air America yesterday. He was up to his same crap, saying that the Dems are in on this too. He basically said that the Dems aren't investigating fraud because they want to take advantage of it in other states, WHEN THERE IS NO SIGN WHATSOEVER THAT KERRY BENEFITED FROM ANY FRAUD!!! This is why I can't stand Nader. He flat out lied, and he knows that ALL the discrepancies favor the pukes.

[darthdemocrat]

11. I'm just tossing this idea out there...

but I heard grumblings from Dean supporters about Kerry winning some primaries where the tabulations didn't line up with exit research. I think they mentioned New Mexico. Is it possible that Nader was referring to the primaries?

My personal opinion is that the Republicans have clearly benefited in an election changing way through intimidation and selective ballot spoilage. If I see the Republicans sue to stop vote counting or media coverage of it in FL, OH or NM I will become very suspicious that there was rigging.

I personally thought Nader was right to run and to maximize attention to his slogan about "corporate occupied territory." I wonder if he might have gotten more exposure by running as a Democrat. If he had picked up votes in the primaries he gets a voice at the convention and possibly policy planks and concessions - even a cabinet position. Maybe he's wrong sometimes and a prick, but I think he'd make an awesome Attorney General.

I think we should all wait and see what Ralph accomplishes. If he's an important voice in uncovering the truth, whatever it may be, I say he's a hero.

[Nordic]

13. gee, that must be why the democratic party is fighting tooth and nail with

us.

NOT.

The Democratic Party has rolled over and played dead on this one, folks.

Until they clean house 100% and rebuild from the ground up, I am done with the Democratic Party.

Fuck them to hell.

[idiosyncratic]

3. I've supported Ralph in many elections

I lost respect for him this year when he took money from the Repukes.

Maybe he had a plan all along.

[Rawls vs Nozick]

7. I haven't understood this

I don't understand why people are mad at Nader for taking money from the Republicans.

Who cares where his money comes from? How could that money determine what he's going to do?

Maybe in many cases "following the money" helps us figure out the motives of the recipient of the money. But in this case, we see the *donor* of the money had such strong reasons to help Nader out, no matter *what* Nader's motivations are, that it seems like there is no reason to even think there is any connection between Nader's reciept of the funds and Nader's motivations in the grand political scheme of things.

You guys following me here?

-
RvN
-

[freeplessinseattle]

16. I'm with ya, he may figure the more they give to him the less they have

to give to repuke pols. maybe he fancies himself a Robin Hood. He couldn't have been putting on act for the past 30 years, he's obviously passionate aboit his beliefs.

[ever_green]

18. You're exactly right.

He shouldn't be faulted for that. He had little money to work with this election. Think how hard it is to compete with the two corporate parties. He needs all he can get.
I think it was disgusting that Democrats spent so much time and energy attacking him and trying to keep him off the ballot. Isn't Bush supposed to be our enemy. And isn't democracy our friend...?

[John Q. Citizen]

5. I'm not sure I would go that far, but Nader has been a friend of

democracy for a long time.

I never blamed Nader for running, this is America and anybody who wants to can run. Even if I, or anyone, doesn't like it.

I thought people who voted for Nader this time (especially those in swing states) were crazy. I still do. But they were no where near as crazy as the vast majority of the people who voted for Bush.


I want to give Ralph Nader a big thank you for his ongoing service to our country.

[joelogan]

6. putting spotlight on Democratic shortcomings?

I would suspect that Nader's motivation is to take away part of the excuse that cheating went on. That way the attention would focus on the shortcomings of the Democratic platform when it comes to addressing the economic needs of the working people.

[jasmineblue]

8. I was just saying that yesterday.

I think he knew along that the only way to be able to get a recount was if he was a candidate. I remember him saying not to worry.:)

[rainy]

9. I agree, I remember him saying it in a way that made me think

right then when he said it that there was a plan. I, at the time thought he was planning to get out at the very last moment if it meant JK losing but now I think it might have had something to do with this. Maybe he and Kerry are in this together. They had a meeting back then. Nader has always been for the people.

[mzmolly]

10. Bah! Nader loves attention and wants to perpetuate a "white knight"

persona. I'm glad he's doing what he's doing .. but I think it's more about being in the limelight than anything for Nader.

[Nordic]

14. I'm sorry, but I'm realizing that Nader is WAY WAY ahead of us

and he has been for a while

He said it doesn't matter if it's Dem or Repuke, and he turned out to be right.

We need to go back and look at everything Nader has said. I fear he will be proved correct on pretty much everything.

We need to put this hatred and prejudice against Nader aside and start fighting the good fight against both the Democratic Party, who has conceded this election and even this fight against vote-honesty.

This country is fucked up in a way that goes WAY BEYOND Republican/Democratic partisan politics.

[ever_green]

19. Finally! Thanks for the sensible comments!

It's about time I hear something sensible. Partisan politics tends to blind people. I think Nader can be trusted. Certainly much more than any politician.

[mzmolly]

25. Sorry, Nader likes to think he's ahead of "us" but the man ain't ahead of

me. :hi:

Ralphie helped * get in office in the first place, were it not for him the Supreme court - Katherine Harris and Jeb Bush would not have been an issue.

[Carolab]

12. I think that Nader has been around long enough

to know "how the games are played". I would trust him on this. I think there were some rather strange results in the primaries and I found it hard to believe Dean came in third based on just the negative ads and dirty tricks in Iowa/NH and Kerry ended up first. McAuliffe and the DLC front-loaded the primaries in order for Kerry to become the candidate right away--that much is CLEAR. Wes Clark even admitted that he was put out by the Clintons to thwart Dean.

[Nordic]

15. "Wes Clark even admitted he was put out by the Clintons to thwart Dean"

Can you provide some backup for that claim?

I'd be really interested in seeing that.

As would many others I'm sure.

[Gore1FL]

17. I concurr -- I think it was the pundits that "admitted" that.

n/t

[ever_green]

20. I wanna know too!

[IAMREALITY]

21. For Sake of Levity

Hey, smoke a bone and imagine for a second that Nader is right, that the Dems and Kerry are in on it. Imagine that the investigation snowballs at a high rate and shows that both the Bush team and Kerry team are guilty of Federal Crimes of fraud and are disqualified from the election. The electorate then meets and gives their votes to the next candidate with the most votes, Ralph Nader. Then Ralphie would be our President.

Ok ok, back to reality hehe

[MileHiStealth]

23. Maybe not Levity ...

That's exactly what I was thinking, and
why Kerry isn't challanging the election ...

[Rose Siding]

22. This is the result of leadership starvation

I think maybe the legions of dems and their lawyers had better, WAY more important things to do than battling Nader's repub funded lawyers for MONTHS in the courts of a dozen different states. Can we think of a better way for them to have channeled their money and time and organizations? I bet we can.

[davsand]

24. I've really come to wonder about Ralph.

I've gone back and forth on it since he ran in 2000. I know the local folks who Ralph went to when he was first thinking of jumping in--and they are honest to gosh progressives. They are not hung up on party labels. Dem/Green/Socialist/DSA--call it by any name, these are just folks who want something better than the Dems and the GOP have provided over the last few years.

I dismissed a lot of the things Nader said about the Dem party at first because I've been inside the local Dem party for SO long. I know the inner workings here locally, and I just don't doubt their sincerity. That, however, is a FAR cry from the DNC at a national level. I don't give money to the DNC--I haven't for a long time. I only support Dems I know locally or National Dems I regard highly.

No matter how I rejected Ralph's comments originally, I've come to realize that he's not saying much that I disagree with. My only issue with Ralph was he was not associated with the Dems, and I thought he was bashing the entire party--not just the national one.

If I step back and look at it--yeah, I stopped trusting the DNC a long time ago. Locally my party is OK--but I stopped accepting the DNC lies and fuckups several years ago. How's THAT for a rude awakening?

My local party is doing OK (most of the time) but I really DON'T trust the national Dem party. So, who really DOES orchestrate the primaries for the Presidential races? I'll give you a clue--it isn't your LOCAL party. I have NO problem accepting the idea that maybe the DNC DID just back off on the last two elections because they thought fixing the votes was something they could use sometime down the road...

Just a couple of months ago I defended Kerry when some folks locally started speculating that he was just going thru the motions in his race. When they said the fix was in, I came back with the argument that Kerry was a strong closer. Funny thing--that "strong closer" stuff came out of the DNC originally--didn't it...

I dunno. Ralph may not be as far out as I thought he was. Ain't that just a pisser?

Laura

[libertypirate]

26. Months ago.

Nader said something in an interview or appearance that struck me funny. Think of me as an advocate for the consumers of our voting system, the American people. This was around spring this year.