Vote FRAUD "zealots" check in!!

[ClassWarrior]

malatesta1137 claims he/she received an email from an ostensibly "normal" DUer that calls the people here who are concerned with vote FRAUD "zealots" who will rip him/her to shreds.

I maintain we're kinder, gentler "zealots," and so I make this plea. Please ignore malatesta1137's thread entitled "Wake-Up Call, DU," and instead declare your "zealotry" here...

NGU.

[JaneDoughnut]

1. Here!

And frankly, the point is not so much to expose fraud and/or overturn the election as it is to fix some of the very serious problems with this system. Partisan election boards, vulnerable e-voting machines, voter intimidation.... Are we really supposed to let this shit slide?

[BlueDog2u]

13. JaneD

Speaks my mind. I am not yet convinced one way or the other, for sure, about fraud, or rather about whether fraud -- which no doubt did take place -- is what really lost the election for Kerry. I can see solid arguments on both sides. But what I can't stand is people who think that the concerns voiced by JanD are unimportant. They aren't. They're essential to the preservation of a democratic tradition. In a sense, we're arguing about the definition of fraud. Even if the black boxes did not eat Kerry's votes, as many fear, this election was still fraudulent in the sense that coercion and lies carried the day for BushCo. Nov. 2 was as much of a fiasco as WMD. If we allow our election officials to carry on like Blackwell and K. Harris before him, as partisan zealots (and that goes for Democrat SOS's as well), our democracy is in trouble. Major reforms are not optional at this point if we are to retain any semblance of a democratic republic.

[BrightKnight]

21. The revolution only started in 1776.

This country was founded by passionate revolutionaries. The revolution only started in 1776. I hope that we will always be fighting for freedom.

I am very passionate about free and fair elections. This is far more important than any partisan political agenda.

[BrklynLiberal]

2. Historically speaking, many truth-seekers

were called zealots at one time or another.
And if our "zealotry" ends up winning good things for those that sit back on their butts watching "Survivor" will they thank us? Noooooooooooooo!!!!!
PS "First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me."
Martin Niemoller

[shelley806]

57. I got goose bumps reading your post. n/t

[Joe Chi Minh]

101. I think

at least two of the Apostles had been zealots, as well as the Good Thief. The occasional Barabbases will always turn up, as well, from time to time.

[fugue]

107. Actually, "First They Came for the Jews"

Google it.

[YellowDoginthehouse]

3. check

:bounce:

[merh]

4. Election fraud zealot

checking in!

I don't care if I am considered "normal" - as a patriot, I believe the protection of every vote is essential to democracy. Call me crazy, call me abnormal, call me a zealot, call me a liberal, I don't care!

Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words will never hurt me! :silly:

[Horse with no Name]

5. Nutjob zealot...

Do I need to list everything else I have been called to?
:7

[pointsoflight]

6. Add the Govt. Accountability Office to the "zealot" list

[BlueDog2u]

14. LOL

Right. And Now CNN is having Bev Harris on. I guess the infection is spreading.

[IndyOp]

115. When is Bev on CNN?

When will Bev Harris be on CNN? Where did you learn about this? Good source or iffy? If this is true - wow! B-)

[prof_science]

7. Checking in.

I'm not so much a voting FRAUD zealot as I am a voting REFORM zealot. However, investigation of the instances of fraud that we can all agree did happen (even those who say "give up" agree, in most cases, that fraud is present-- they just don't think that we'll ever be able to get anything accomplished with the present power structure) is the only way, IMO, to push the issue of reform.

Give up? Um, thank you, no.

[knowbody0]

8. zealous and proud

[Ducks In A Row]

9. Do I get to wear a robe.... with a hood? and gloves maybe?

[ClassWarrior]

10. As long as I get to wear one of those big conehead hats like the pope!

NGU.

[Ducks In A Row]

15. You On!

[Clark2008]

119. And we have to have some kick-ass boots, too!

Big, thick, high-heeled leathers...

Give me zealotry or give me death!

:hi: Just checking in.

[coeur_de_lion]

112. OK wait a minute! The recruiter never mentioned a uniform . . . . .

But if we have one I think it has to include a tinfoil hat.

And for seasoned zealots, a tinfoil body suit. Asbestos shoes . . .

[ClassWarrior]

118. Groucho glasses too.

NGU.

[Sinti]

11. Zealot

Yes, please.
I don't want a theocracy, or a corporate government, or faith-based voting, thank you.

[Karenca]

12. Zealot here..and Welcome to DU :))

MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS THINK I'VE SNAPPED.
I DON'T CARE......I KNOW WE'RE RIGHT!

[donkeyotay]

16. I'm giving this til Thursday... no, Friday... no, Saturday...SUNDAY

If nothing seems to break in our favor, then I'm through holding out hope. But this "election" was the last straw for me. Count me then as not among the zealots, but as among those who say, "It's no longer my problem."

[New Earth]

18. i'm one

and i dont' care what anyone thinks

[ClassWarrior]

20. You should always hold out hope. Always.

As Rev. Jackson once wisely said, "Keep hope ALIVE!!"

That's why I'm signing my posts:

Never Give Up.

[MelissaB]

17. Reporting for duty!

Glad to know I'm not alone!

:toast:

[kk897]

19. zealot for the truth!

Plus, I've got to know how this all turns out! The suspense is killing me!

But seriously, I don't care what you call me; I'm sure I've been called worse.

[brindis_desala]

22. Somebody in Fla should get a FOIA and try and audit Accenture

there's something smelly about that Florida felon list.
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/10250475.htm?1c

[PeterPan]

23. i'm a zealot and i'm reporting for duty

:)

[unpossibles]

24. Patriotic and honest American with values reporting!

I am sick of being called unAmerican or that we have no values, etc.

I am in for the long haul, even though my wife and others may think I am a bit off.

As much as I can't stand many of the things Bullsh stands for, this is not my motivation.

My motivation is the freedom we all should hold dearly and protect with our every act, the voting which is the backbone of our democracy, the honesty and integrity which has in the past made other nations look up to us.

Regardless of the spin or the name-calling, I stand as a proud American and am proud of all of you for the hard work, the sleepless nights, and the feeling of doing something which is spreading like wildfire.

Sure, the cynics may be right; maybe we'll accomplish nothing, but how would I feel if I did not try? I refuse to lie down and take this.

:bounce: :grouphug:

[mopinko]

25. reporting for duty

tin foil hat at the ready. i am driving people crazy insisting that it's not over. i have my black moments, but i am not giving up.

[ClassWarrior]

27. I don't talk about it with anyone except true believers.

I just smile mysteriously whenever someone brings up the election. Or asks why my JK sign is still on my front lawn.

NGU.

[noonriser]

26. here I am! (n/t)

[Syd_]

28. I'm Zealot. I'm a Liberal. I speak for Democracy!

If the exposure of fraud doesn't put Kerry and Democratic Legislators in office this time, it will pave the way for the ousting of BushRoveCo one way or another. The American people will consider having their votes tampered with as PERSONAL, not something remote like Halliburton ripping off the government. Facism must be stopped or there will never be another real election.

[Kralizec]

29. ¡Hasta la victoria siempre! n/t

[ClassWarrior]

33. Yeah... what he said.

NGU.

[SmokingJacket]

I am indeed full of Zeal. n/t

[indy_azcat]

31. wow

zealous minds think alike

:7

[indy_azcat]

30. Full of zeal here

But please don't call me gentle.

:tinfoilhat:

Ya ever notice how militant looking those TFHs are?

[Chili]

72. LOLOL!

Do we get uniforms too? I'm in!

[mcg]

32. Live Free or Diebold!

[coeur_de_lion]

34. I'm a closet zealot! I'm coming out of the closet right now!

I sure hope this gets resolved in our favor. Another 4 years of * will be agony.

Has anybody seen this?
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/2004votefraud.html

[Chimpanzee]

35. What's so wrong with a little Zeal?

[goclark]

36. Here!

[truehawk]

37. Someone ring the fire bell?

[BlackVelvet04]

38. Signing in..............n/t

[Cadence]

39. If fighting for Truth makes me a zealot

then it be so!

[Duncan]

40. I think malatesta1137 has not been paying attention.

Perhaps malatesta1137 is not aware of the UC Berkeley study, or the Freeman study, or the fact that the Caltech-MIT study is based on bogus data, or the fact that the GAO is going to investigate, or that Ohio is getting a recount. Perhaps malatesta1137 is so pesimistic that malatesta1137 needs to post here to learn that malatesta1137's pessimism is unwarrented.

PS can somebody please tell me where to find an explanation of thread icons (eg, flaming icon) ?

[ClassWarrior]

52. I know the flaming icon means the thread is "hot," i.e...

...more than 20 responses. But I don't know where to find the full explanation.

NGU.

[Nimrod]

41. Been one for fifteen years at least

About the time I got into high school I had figured out that elections were a hopelessly rigged game. They probably have been for a long long time now.

[Dragonfli]

42. Anti-Fascist Zealot

Checkin' in!

Stolen votes=stolen democracy.

There were not enough zealots in 30's Germany; let's not worry too much about what some would like to call us and proudly spread our zeal to as many as is needed to protect our freedom.

[CantGetFooledAgain]

43. I joined DU to have a place to express...

...my zealotry about this issue. Since then I've been addicted.

If this election was stolen, at such a crucial time in history, we need to do every last thing we can to get the truth out.

"The people have the power..."

[Eloriel]

44. Good grief

Could anyone possibly doubt it about me? --

VOTE FRAUD LINKS - A DU Compendium - Thread #3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x4927

VOTE FRAUD Links Compendium - Thread #2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x3223

VOTE FRAUD Links - a DU Compendium
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=1984#

[ClassWarrior]

64. Keep posting those links, El!

NGU.

[m berst]

45. it is fear maybe

People who don't want to face the implications and consequences of a stolen election are probably not so much reacting to the "zealots" and rejecting them, but rather they are becoming upset in response to screeching and unpleasant fears in their own minds. They are wrestling with themselves, and projecting one part of the wrestling match in their minds unto the "zealots."

[zann725]

124. Excellent observation!

n/t

[molly]

46. Reporting!

[nashville_brook]

47. freedom fighter,

democracy insurgent -- words have power, and the freddies want to paint us with their smelly, unwashed language.

we will overcome.

[consciousobjector]

48. Me too...

everyone agrees with me that the election smells to high heaven...but when it comes to thinking that anything can be done, everyone still thinks I'm nuts.

But for me - better a nut that tries to change things than a defeatist who just sits and complains!

[hangloose]

49. ALL I'M LOOKING FOR IS JUSTICE IN THE VOTE

[driver8]

56. Me too! But if Bush and Co. go down...all the better! n/t

[dewaldd]

50. quote from Sam Adams says it all:

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. "

Samuel Adams, 1776

[pauldp]

53. I was looking for a quote like that!

That sums it up pretty well.

I prefer to think of us as patriots, but call me what you will, count me in for the long haul on this one!

I'm convinced our founding fathers would be proud of us.

[Melissa G]

66. Rabid Zealot Sniffing...

Massive amounts of FRAWD!
Right at this email address!

[anamandujano]

89. Almost as good as Jane D's take in post #1

"Are we really supposed to let this shit slide?"

And may I add, there is nothing else worth fighting for at this point. Everyone knows that the repukes can't win unless they cheat. Let the mudslingers do their thing. The quality of their abuse will be a direct measure of their skullduggery.

Please don't hurt our feelings. (/sarcasm)

[peabody71]

51. I'm here!

I'm not letting up!!

[RhodaGrits]

54. If we don't fight for democracy now, 1996 will be the last free

democratic election in the USA. They stole it and with each passing day, they become stronger and more able to keep us from wresting back our government.

"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." - Josef Stalin

He must have known Blackwell and Harris.

[O.M.B.inOhio]

69. AMEN! n/t

[txindy]

55. That's my cue

[tinfoil_beret]

58. I have the zeal...

my trusty decoder ring and my tinfoil turban, too. :)

[TruthOutDawg]

59. Zealot Am I n/t

[GettysbergII]

60. I'll be screaming fraud until they pry my tin foil hat off of my cold dead

...head

[KaryninMiami]

61. Zealot here and happy not to be alone...

Because I find myself losing friends, alienating family and becoming overwhelmed at times with it all. Thank goodness for you guys...
Today, when a relative said that "if this election thing is all that I have to talk about, perhaps we should cancel our plans to get together next week", I took a deep breath and held back the tears. She's right- I am a bit obsessed. But I cannot seem to help it - this is just to important to me to just let go and become "status Quo" about it or worse, take the victim mode "Yes it's a terrible thing but what can we do?". It's not easy being passionate when a fire burns inside you - but when it does, there's no turning back.

Then I reminded myself that if not for a burning passion for justice, women would not have the vote, African Americans would be sitting in the back of the bus, Nixon would have remained president and the Viet Nam war would have gone on for many more years.

And so it goes and so I repeat-- thank goodness for all of you who reaffirm the fact that I am NOT CRAZY and that what we are doing here is not only important and worthwhile, but crucial to preserving our democracy.

[pauldp]

78. for the naysayers

Why did they kill the paper trail if they weren't going to cheat?
When you ask a naysayer that it shuts them up right away.

If they ask "how do you know?"

Tell them it is a fact that HR 2239, the bill that would have given us a paper trail was killed in committee by the Republican leadership.

You may want to wait untill an hour after Thanksgiving dinner though, so no one gets indigestion.

NO PAPER TRAIL=NO DEMOCRACY!

[mirrera]

62. Rabid Hound of Hell Zealot here!

[B Calm]

63. Truth Seeker REPORTING IN!!

[floridadem30]

65. checking in

[stella2cat]

67. Passionate Righteously Indignant Zealot here n/t

[khz]

68. Zealous about investigation

I've got my tinfoil hat and will be happy to make one for you.

[Chili]

70. if demanding a fair and transparent election for all citizens

...and fighting for sweeping election reform makes me a zealot, then I'm a zealot.

Anyone can roll their eyes at the idea of fraud if they want to; but if it will ultimately make history in forcing reform, I'll proudly slap my tinfoil hat on my head. The fact - and it is a FACT - of the matter is, screaming "FRAUD!!!" has gotten us a recount in Ohio and gotten a GAO investigation into the use of papertrail-less electronic voting machines. If we can just get rid of those - JUST THOSE - if that's ALL it accomplishes, and nothing else - then I'll die knowing I fought the good fight and WON.

And more - MOST - importantly, in the process, we're shining a light on the VOTER SUPPRESSION that took place in Ohio. It was a DISGRACE and should be an embarrassment to this entire nation. That is being exposed, too... all because we dared to complain.

Now laugh at that.

[boi1946]

73. Texas zealot here!

Knew from about 3 AM 11/3 that B* and RoveCo had stolen another election.
Here, I can help fight for the truth, and learn ways to make a difference....

[shraby]

140. Patriotic zealot checking in.

The truth will set us free from Bushco, Diebold (etal.), Rove, and tyranny.

[distantearlywarning]

71. I'm a zealot. I read and understood the articles. n/t

[AmyCrat]

74. Call me a zealot, call me a sore-loser, but I do NOT wear a tin foil hat..

and I DO believe in democracy!

[symbolman]

75. I'm so Zealous that we made a movie about it..

"Electile Dysfunction"

And here's and Animation to Preview from the film:

"What's Inside the Electronic Voting Machines?"

Here's my blurb about it:

Just wanted to share with you one of the many NEW animations you'll see in our film about Electronic Voting, called "Electile Dysfunction" and now a Premium at Buzzflash - it took us over a year of travelling the country, interviewing stars, experts, and people in the street about not ONLY E-Voting, but your actual RIGHT to vote.

You may be surprised to know that you don't have the rights you thought you had, no matter which way you vote.

So here's one of the more bizarre animations I created for the film, showing what REALLY is going on inside of a DIEBOLD voting machine - don't worry, most of the other animations are funny but not quite so wierd.

We took a completely different course with our movie, since it's a dry subject, we wanted to make sure that our film wasn't just a bunch of talking heads, that format can be like watching paint dry - we think you can be fun and educational at the same time, so we mixed the "incredible" with the "credible" and we have a lot of campy or edgy humor thoughout the DVD.

This flash is in large screen format, just like the film - let me know what you think of "What's inside those Voting Machines?" (Oh, and the little floating head is Wally O'Dell himself in all his glory - turn up those speakers for full effect as well) Take a look and pass it around, something fun to show people online over the Holidays..

click on the image or the link at the end if you want to see more about the movie. (more trailers)

From Take Back the Media.com to you,

Enjoy!

http://web.takebackthemedia.com/geeklog/public_html/staticpages/index.php?page=20041123211751110

[Chili]

79. that's your site? Great animation, I love it!

...and I once read an Edward R. Murrow quote on your site that struck me so hard I wrote it down, and intend to add it to my sigline the next time I change it:

"No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are his accomplices." -- Edward R. Murrow.

Great quote, and so damn appropriate for our times.

[symbolman]

88. Thanks!

we try and keep that attitude alive - respectful gonzo I guess :)

appreciate the props

[Nordic]

76. Yeah, wanting honesty and truth makes me a "zealot". Fine!

This country has gone so insane that my middle-of-the-road politics is now considered radical.

Go figure.

[dmac]

77. Fighting for Freedom Zealot also accounted for.

[Turn CO Blue]

80. ALL YOUR ZEALOT ARE BELONG TO US...

Yep. Got my ACLU card right here, and bloodshot eyes from staring at county returns. I received a response to my email from the Ohio Dems today. I have DU, BBV and DKos all up on separate windows, and I have a few flames dripping off me from malatesta1137 and his ilk of "why don't you just rollover" lay-downs.

I just adjusted my tin-foil hat (it has new antennae!) Yep, I got your zealot right here in Colorado, pal!

[bunny planet]

81. Welcome to Zealots R Us.

:bounce:

[Stand and Fight]

82. Damn it malatesta

You're god-dammed right i'm zealous -- I'm zealous thorugh and through when it comes to preserving our democracy no matter what the cost, no matter what the sacrifice. Hell, I didn't serve this country for five years in the Army to watch it go to hell in a handbasket under the idiot of idiots!

[GetTheRightVote]

83. Give me my Vote or Give me Death !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[alittlelark]

84. Yet another Zealot here

I KNOW that this election was a sham, even more so than 2000. I KNOW the truth will come out... the only question is WHEN......?

The sooner the better ( this week would be nice...).

[JoMama49]

85. Another Zealot

Count me in!
JoMama.

[pointsoflight]

86. Add CNN's Aaron Brown

[Old Mouse]

87. it's called critical thinking

and I would give it up if I could, but I've grown quite addicted

[Sideways]

90. WTF Is A "Normal" DUer? Aint No Such Beast.

Zealasaurus Rex here.

[ClassWarrior]

103. Exactly, Rex!

NGU.

[pat_k]

91. Yes, I'm a zealot when it comes to the sole principle on which this nation

Yes, I'm a zealot when it comes to the sole principle on which this nation is founded -- the principle that our leaders serve ONLY with the consent of the governed:

We the People Do Not Concede!
-----------------------------

In a true America, leaders serve only with the consent of the governed, and that consent must be obtained by lawful elections that accurately measure the will of the voters. We shall not tolerate any violation of this fundamental principle, the SOLE moral tenet on which our nation was founded and has since relied.

The voting systems and practices used in the conduct of this past election are so clearly flawed that the results in nearly every state are wide open to corruption by systematic vote suppression, data manipulation, human and machine error, and consequently, willful fraud. The only certain result is that we can have NO confidence in how accurately they gauge the will of the electorate.

We refuse to further descend into the Stalinist perversion of "democracy;" in which "Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything." Such was the clear underpinning of the 4-year-old edict of the 5 black-robed political operatives, who arrogated to themselves the perquisite of sentencing the nation by their fiat to live under appointed rule as opposed to elected leadership.

We the People, through our representatives, have set out our election laws to ensure that election results reflect OUR will. In far too many states, demonstrable errors and anomalous patterns of result have rendered the "official" tally suspect. More tragically, the systems and processes implemented by "experts" now make it impossible for us to rule out corruption without further investigation and audit.

Given the likely consequences of once again tacitly accepting corrupt results, the moral burden must now be on each state to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that their results are accurate and lawfully obtained. There is no other patriotic option.

But let us be clear, IF WE ARE UNABLE to obtain this proof under current election law, through civil and/or criminal judicial means, then we MUST RESORT to a political solution and demand that our Congress reject the electors from ANY STATE that fails to validate its results through comprehensive, apolitical investigation and audit.

Our law is intended to serve our will, not thwart it. We can never again allow a "technical" or "legal" arguments and rationalizations to trump reality as we did in 2000.

NEVER AGAIN.

What We Require
-------------

To prove that their election results were lawfully obtained and reflect the will of the voters, we demand that each state:

1. Provide the data required to prove they did not create discriminatory barriers to voting.

Across the nation, people were forced to wait for hours to even attempt to cast their ballots. This onerous waiting time constitutes a de facto poll tax (time is money). Each state must provide data on wait times at each polling place, demographics of the registered voters served by the polling place, and the number of resources (voting machines, poll workers) assigned and working during operating hours. The burden is on the state to prove, not simply assert, that its practices were not discriminatory.

We will not accept any argument that the discrimination would not have affected the outcome. Such arguments are a sham. Are systematic violations of voting rights OK for those who live in a state in which the margin of victory for one candidate or the other is large? Of course not! Further, if any discrimination is found to be racially based, as was the legal finding of the US Commission on Civil Right in the 2000 Florida election, such a result is unlawful, as well as being intolerably immoral and contrary to American values.

Whatever the margin of victory or number of electoral votes, if any state FAILS TO PROVE that the existence of poll-tax-lines, or any other unnecessary obstruction to voting, was not correlated with RACIAL, SOCIO-ECONOMIC, or PARTISAN STATUS of the voters, that state MUST NOT be afforded the privilege of participation in the electoral vote.

2. Provide to all responsible, professional investigators any necessary records and full access to systems and software, in order to PROVE THAT THE RESULTS WERE NOT CORRUPTED by manipulation, human or machine error, or fraud.

Acceptable investigators will be those sanctioned by any court, professional organization, political party, or other bonding entity willing to warrant their actions. These investigations must be provided the records and access required to examine:

* Every tabulation system that consolidates results at any level (e.g., GEMs tabulators).

* Every "black box" voting system.

* Every undervote, overvote, and spoiled ballot occurrence.

* Every voter registration record and known voter registration agents and entities.

* Every absentee ballot request, delivery record, return envelope, counted and disallowed ballot, any and all records of absentee vote and ballot disposition by any agent or entity.

* Every provisional counted and disallowed provisional ballot, unfulfilled provisional ballot request, provisional ballot inventories for each polling station, any and all records of provisional ballot disposition by any agent or entity.

ANY STATE THAT REFUSES to make every effort to successfully confirm that their published vote tallies are free from manipulation and/or error MUST BE considered morally irresponsible and acting contrary to agreed upon American values. There CAN BE NO ACCEPTABLE EXCUSE or rationalization that can compete with the restoration of confidence in our electoral process.

For such a circumstance there can be no other moral or patriotic response than full criminal investigation and prosecution, civil pursuit of maximum remedies for damage to the body politic, and DENIAL OF THE PRIVILEGE of participation in the Electoral College for any tainted, irregularly appointed, electors who might endeavor to infect the process.

We will accept no verbal assurances, no misleading representations from partial investigations, no shifting of responsibility onto the media or the public at large, and NO DELAY OF ANY KIND.

On this there can be NO COMPROMISE of what is required of us, NO RETREAT from our historic duty, and NO SURRENDER to any agent, foreign or domestic, that would even contemplate any act of obstruction.

November 7, 2004

[sepia_steel]

92. Present

and more than ready to hear and bear whatever the ostriches can dish out.


-a zealot for common sense

[ClassWarrior]

93. kicking for morning zeal...

:kick:

NGU.

[WiseFawn]

94. I'm proud to be a zealot!

Every spare moment I have, I spend working on this! I can't imagine not being anything else.

[Straight Shooter]

95. I would rather be a zealot for truth than a whore for complacency.

:thumbsup:

[WiseFawn]

96. Forgive me

for putting this here, but I'm always finding info and never sure where to post it. Has anyone seen this yet?

http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1649813

Wishtv is doing a series and they had a demonstration and they had undergraduates put together a rigged system in half an hour!

[ClassWarrior]

102. That's great Fawn - you should post this in Late Breaking News...

...if it's less than 24 hours old.

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

98. Isn't that harlot for truth and whore for complacency?

:7

NGU.

[Straight Shooter]

120. Yes, and the harlot shall confront the beast

Or something like that.

:evilgrin:

[Vidar]

97. large angry zealot here

[leanin_green]

99. Lurking Zealot!!!!

[Joe Chi Minh]

100. You gat it.

How can anyone know what will happen between now and January 6! if the Dems are facing one helluva fight. So what! There can only be one loser... no names, no pack-drill...

This board is for grown-ups, malatesta (why is it your names and avatars are so often revealing!). You need to think more realistically. Maybe you could come back in a few years' time, say five years from now, and let us know your thoughts. You'll a little more experience of life by then.

[ClassWarrior]

104. malatesta's poison thread is BACK!!

Resist the temptation to post to it - sound off here instead!

NGU.

[Angry Girl]

105. Hey, some things are worth zealing about!

I know chocolate's on the list.

And justice might be a close second....

And

[fugue]

106. Never thought I'd be willing to be called a zealot, but

if we don't have real elections, we don't have a country.

I would point out that the most important time of year to the powers that be is here: the holiday shopping season. I propose that we skip the usual consumerist traditions we have in favor of injuring our enemies' bottom line.

Don't buy anything you wouldn't buy in, for example, March. When you do buy anything, buy from local small businesses. And get your money in a credit union already! We have an alternative to banks. Why are we still fattening Citibank and their kindred?

Call it the "Buying Back Democracy" campaign. We can't spend our money 'cause we're saving it up for what we really want: democracy.

[ClassWarrior]

111. I and mine are removing ourselves from the retail sales statistics...

...this holiday season. I'm glad you are too.

NGU.

[fugue]

116. Well . . .

I did buy a few Tofurkey roasts from my local cooperative grocery. I don't think Turtle Island (the folks who make Tofurkey) are owned by any major cooperation, though, and certainly the grocery store isn't. (Lovely place. Their lowest paid workers have a living wage according to our local credit union's calculation of it, as well as health insurance and the largest discount available on groceries.)

It's an unusual expense, but they only carry them at this time of year, and I might want some Tofurkey in February.

[Turn CO Blue]

134. Count me in to starve the Beast...I am going to mom and pops

local artisans and craft fairs for any purchases this holiday season. WalMart would go bankrupt if they counted on my dollars.

I am sick of these big banks and corporations and conglomerates running the government!

[fugue]

135. Great!

Good to know I'm not the only one working at it!

[tex-wyo-dem]

108. I, for one, do not accept our elections as legitimate.

And I don't accept outcome of this election until someone can PROVE to me that votes were counted as accurately and fairly as possible, that this election was not tampered with, that legitimate voters were not purposefully disenfranchised or suppressed from their right to vote and that the American people were not otherwise defrauded. I want to see a full audit of all voting precincts in every county in every state in this great country of ours by independent non-partisan groups. I want PROOF that our voting systems are accurate and protected by the highest level of security and are not compromised by partisan evil-doing hackers.

I want this proof because it is my right as an American.

If this makes me a "zealot," then so be it.

[pointsoflight]

109. I prefer "Voting Reform" zealot...

...but of course issues of fraud are part of that.

[Banazir]

110. Checking in.

I joined DU over this issue.

I'm tempted to paraphrase a psych survivor slogan, "You bet your ass we're paranoid," into "You bet your ass we're zealots." But I'm sure those who think we're zealots also think we're paranoid, so there may be no difference. :grr:

There's another positive thread in the vein of "what are we doing about this?" here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x76164

[GetTheRightVote]

113. Yes I am a zealot enought to go to NYC for War Protest Convention

*******************************************************************

New Thread as follows in Activism and Events calling for action:

Emergency Anti-War-Conference, all day SAT. 12/4, NYC


"I am going to march all over downtown Wash, D.C. this weekend and go on and on about the stolen election, even if I am alone it will make me feel so much better about everything .... I can't wait to see the looks on people's faces when I walk by with my sign. I am strong, I am an American, I have rights no matter what they say, I will be free, even if it is just me, I will march."


" Power to the People "

[ClassWarrior]

127. Godspeed to you as well.

I will be with you in spirit.

NGU.

[Ladyhawk]

114. All I want is the truth. Is that so much to ask?

Apparently, yes. :(

[ClassWarrior]

117. Why is that so much to ask?

It took two years for the truth about Watergate to slither out. We just need to keep the faith.

Just got ten copies of your CD burned by a PC-owning friend by the way. Thanks - they're going out this weekend!

NGU.

[marions ghost]

121. The Truth is Out There

You voting fraud zealots have given me hope so I guess I am one too. Some people are better than others at denial. A lot of people know this election stinks, but they submerge such a disturbing thought. Some of us are just compelled to say it out loud. Don't let anybody discredit this fledgling voting reform movement by calling it a bunch of zealots. It's about the most fundamental rights in a democracy.

[Banazir]

122. You describe the reaction that scares me the most, in the long run...

...the one where people go, "Something's not right here. No, wait, I don't want to think something couldn't be right here. But it's right in front of my eyes. But I'm not going to look at it. Nobody will ever prove anything. It's too scary to contemplate anyway. Maybe if I ignore it it'll go away."

Then something else comes up, same thing. "Something's not right here. No, can't be. Maybe if I ignore it it'll go away."

And then eventually the "something's not right" creeps right up to them and they can't ignore it anymore. Then it's too late.

I really, really fear the consequences of too many people doing that.

[ClassWarrior]

123. Yes, I too am afraid that some of our fellow travellers are in denial.

There are some Radical RW disruptors out there, but there are also some pitiable Dems who are truly in denial. They've bought into one of the Radical RW's favorite memes: that "all politicians are crooked." Nixon disgraces our Presidency and exposes the GOP for the criminals that they are, and they turn it into a weapon against us.

NGU.

[zann725]

125. As evidenced by those thousands of Ukranians standing in the snow...

for three days and nights. That is true zealotry! I also hear their zealous news anchors walked off their jobs on election night when the bogus 'returns' starting coming in...REFUSING to cover it! Seems they could 'teach' us a little about zealotry!
But we're learning...

[ClassWarrior]

126. Yeah, I'm sure you're convinced that the news anchors at Faux...

...would do the right thing if there was any hint of vote fraud in this country. LMFAO.

NGU.

[lakeguy]

128. FUCK BUSH

SORRY, HAD A FEW BEER AND MY CAPS IS LOCKED}(

[flaminbats]

129. my votes were not counted..

http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/2004-10-28/rant.html

All were thrown out due to undervoting.

[nolabels]

130. I am not a zealot, I only want the truth

Willing to pay all consequences regardless of what they are for it

[ClassWarrior]

131. Oh sure, ruin all our fun by being realistic.

Spoilsport. :7

NGU.

[masaka___]

132. No need to fear those who point out vote fraud.

There's no need to be afraid of us unless you're one of GWB's puppeteers.

The only ones who is going to be "ripped to shreds" are the ones who perpetrated this fraud, and we WILL bring them DOWN.

What really blows my mind is that so many people AREN'T willing to give credence to the vote fraud position. To me, it's SO FUCKING OBVIOUS that you'd have to be delusional not to think something was fishy.

We need to instill more courage into those around us.

(how was that for zealotry?) ;)

[ClassWarrior]

133. I think a few Dems may be afraid of the awful truth.

True, most are trolls, but a few have truly bought into the Radical RW meme that politicians aren't trustworthy, and that's why JK has supposedly "deserted us." I'm actually more concerned about the possibility of US deserting HIM and our democratic values.

Thanks for the awesome display of zealotry by the way...

NGU.

[malatesta1137]

136. NOT zealot, naive and ineffective

Zealot was not my choice of word.

You may ignore my thread "Wake-Up Call, DU," but you won't be able to ignore Bush's inauguration on Jan 20.

The imminent civil war in Ukraine proves my point. So you say people on DU are 'concerned' about fraud. Do you see vote fraud as a 'CONCERN'? How pitiful and laughable. People in Ukraine know that fraud is not defeated by petitions, lawsuits, recounts, protests or threads on DU (140 people responded to this thread so far, that should make a difference, sure). Petitions, lawsuits, recounts, protests in today's America are a WASTE OF TIME.

Fraud is defeated by ACTION.

And that's NEVER going to happen in America, first, because half of the population is indeed made of evangelical nutbags. Second, because the other half is very smart, but WILL NEVER act, as we saw in 2000, as we saw when it was evident that Bush knew about 9/11, as we saw when Bush went to war on lies, as we saw when Ohio, New Mexico and Florida were blatantly stolen in 2004.

There's no way out, not until America doesn't follow Ukraine's example.

[ClassWarrior]

137. Wrong. But thanks for kicking the thread.

NGU.

[malatesta1137]

138. we'll see who's right on Jan 20

I'll be right once more.

[ClassWarrior]

139. It doesn't matter who's right. It matters WHAT'S right.

And having hope is one of the most righteous things we Progressives have.

NGU.

[Joe Chi Minh]

141. I'm not that

familiar with Italian, but "malatesta" sounds like "wrong in the head". If so... On the other hand, if not, likewise.

[malatesta1137]

142. do you always attack the messenger

when you can't dispute his message? lol

[Joe Chi Minh]

148. A hollow laugh,

if ever there was one! How do I know? Because it's taken you such a long time to respond to my goads. I can hear you worrying, "If I don't respond, maybe less people will notice his post and laugh at me...". But you're now risking putting your wee toes in the deep end.

You know I'm not going to jump into a whirlpool to stab a drowning man in the back.... When a wise man argues with a fool, you end with two fools. So pardon me if I pass on that, won't you. I've nothing to gain but a net loss of intelligence.

Why would you be interested in speaking the truth? You've shown your colours, unmistakably. I'd be mad to take anything you say seriously. You and your pals are only good for a laugh or two.

I think you need a new username.

[malatesta1137]

151. lol

your post should win THE EMPTIEST RHETORIC IN A POST AWARD.

You can't dispute anything I've written.

[ClassWarrior]

156. So you're slippery...

...like GWB** and Cheney**. You're proud of that?? LOL

NGU.

[Joe Chi Minh]

158. I'm amused to see

you dignify my gutter insults as rhetoric! You can't get anything right, can you! You must fondly magine that your infinitely cynical posts merit more sophisticated treatment.

If Dems followed your advice and rolled over, you know full well that there would be no significant efforts to conduct lawful elections in the future, and no way that so many African Americans, young people and Republicans would ever again come out to vote Dem in such extraordinary numbers.

[ClassWarrior]

152. LOL! Any "Progressive" who'd say hope is for losers must be...

...sick in the head. Or a troll.

NGU.

[malatesta1137]

143. hope is for losers

ACTION is for winners.

[ClassWarrior]

144. Well this zealot has volunteered to go to Ohio to witness the recount.

What action have YOU taken?

NGU.

[malatesta1137]

149. witness??

are you witnessing the Republican Secretary of State rig the final recount numbers on the main central recount computer like he did in the first count?

If not, you're wasting your trip.

As for me, I helped Kerry for 8 weekends in 3 of wealthiest New Jersey counties that were going for Bush.

[Chasing Dreams]

145. * May be sworn in, but

like Nixon in'73, his days are numbered. I can taste the overwhelming Democratic victories in '06 and '08

[Wiley50]

146. Vintage Tin Foil Hat Stuff

Many of us here are novice tin foil hatters who have only been at it since the election.
To better frame this discourse and bring it into perspective I offer this link (http://www.hermes-press.com/Voting/vote_rig.htm) by the late Dr. Norman Livergood concerning the danger of electronic manipulation of voting.
Dr. Livergood had been at this stuff so long that he died with gold brocade on his tin foil hat and golden tin foil epaulets on his shoulders.

This link has expired. If you just try to go directly to it you will only get 404 page not found.
You must first go to www.archive.org and then paste in the link.

This is a REALLY GOOD read!

Wiley

[bleever]

147. Zealot, and other names you can call me.

First, checking in with Webster's, we find:

"zealot

\Zeal"ot\, n. lote, L. zelotes, Gr. ?. See Zeal.] One who is zealous; one who engages warmly in any cause, and pursues his object with earnestness and ardor; especially, one who is overzealous, or carried away by his zeal; one absorbed in devotion to anything; an enthusiast; a fanatical partisan."

Sounds right to me, even the part where one is considered to have gone overboard by the people who don't get it.

And interestingly, a little historical contrast between the zealots and the Pharisees:

Biblical literature -- Encyclopædia Britannica Article

"The Zealots were revolutionaries who plotted actively against the Roman oppression. That the Pharisees did not react in this way was perhaps because of their belief in Providence: what happens is the will of God, and their free will is expressed in the context of trust and piety in conjunction with an eschatological hope of winning God's Kingdom through obedience…"

So the lay-down-and-roll-over crowd can have their own nickname.

I say, "No taxation without representation." Call me a zealot. Or, if you like, a "democracy nut".

[keepthemhonest]

150. yup I'm a zealot n/t

[Gyre]

153. The circumstantial evidence of fraud alone

is enough to get a criminal conviction, but you wouldn't find a US prosecutor to take the case. The seriousness of the allegations alone require pretty much IRREFUTABLE DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE, along with a human to vouch for it's accuracy, or else it's the end of a career (at least).

The issue isn't really whether fraud occurred, but whether the outcome would've been different in the absence of fraud. So you have to prove systematic fraud in key portions of the electorate that shifted a number that would've resulted in a Kerry victor. THAT will be difficult to prove to say the least.



Gyre

[ClassWarrior]

154. Wrong. The issue IS whether or not fraud occurred.

AND HOW WE - I REPEAT, WE - ARE GOING TO MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN. It's be good to have a real President again, too. But at the very least, heads should roll and the vote be reformed.

Paper and pen in 2006!!!

NGU.

[cynthia]

155. zealous

I refuse to just let this go, it is just too obvious

[ClassWarrior]

157. Exactly, Cyn.

NGU.