Madsen's third article!!!

[ailsagirl]

"Votergate: More details emerge"

http://onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/120104Madsen/120104madsen.html

[eleny]

1. Thanks!

[jamboi]

Article excerpt: Votergate: More details emerge

http://onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/120104Madsen/120104madsen.html

Votergate: More details emerge
by Wayne Madsen

Excerpts:
(snip)
"Since the late 1980s, Five Star Trust has been supplemented by additional money from the Saudis. According to Houston sources, the trust has been extensively used by the campaigns of both George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush. These sources also claim that the Saudis and Bushes use "Five Star" entities as vehicles to move large amounts of money for special purposes. Other names associated with this large Saudi-Bush multibillion dollar tranche are Five Star Group, Five Star Company, and Five Star LLC. The money used to move the money for the vote rigging was also said to involve accounts in Phoenix, Arizona and Houston.

The use of foreign nationals as election machine technicians on Election Day has also been confirmed. Sources with details of the vote rigging stated that some foreign nationals were involved in the reprogramming of Diebold and other machines in the four key states of Florida, Ohio, Texas, and California. The technicians successfully padded votes in Ohio to ensure that state's 20 electoral votes went to the Bush column. In populous counties in Florida, Texas, and California, the vote padding ensured that Bush's nationwide popular vote margin was well in excess of 3 million votes, giving him 51 percent of the national vote over John Kerry. One unsuccessful Democratic candidate in California voiced concerns about whether the alleged vote padding in his state affected his own vote count.

Vote padding for Bush's popular vote may have also been used in Maryland. Diebold ran a training program for volunteer election technicians on October 29, three days before Election Day, at a warehouse in Glen Burnie, Maryland. Volunteers were paid $14 an hour for their services. According to a Diebold insider, U.S. citizenship was not a qualification to work on Diebold election machines on Election Day and the volunteers could have been assigned "anywhere in the state on Election Day."

Sources familiar with the Votergate scandal have stated that foreign nationals from Mexico, Brazil, and Russia were used to "fix" selected machines in critical counties and precincts in Florida, Ohio, Texas, and California. Moreover, some of these individuals have been associated with organized crime activity, including computer hacking, in the United States and abroad. Those familiar with the use of Diebold machines to commit voter fraud have revealed that the hardware and software used in Diebold machines used in casinos and polling places is essentially the same, including the back door used to dial in over telephone lines to change payoff odds in gambling machines. The same mechanism was used to change votes, the sources contend."

(snip)

Thanks to members of the Democratic Underground for sending me news items, leads, contacts, and other relevant information.

Wayne Madsen is a Washington, DC-based investigative journalist, author, and columnist. He is the author of the forthcoming book, "Jaded Tasks: Big Oil, Black Ops & Brass Plates" and wrote "Genocide & Covert Operations in Africa: 1993-1999" (Mellen Press)."

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

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[understandinglife]

82. Kick

"Halt, Audit & Prove My Vote Counts, Now"

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

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[jamboi]

138. Five Stars = the stars worn by Gen Douglas MacArthur.

Five Stars = the stars worn by Gen Douglas MacArthur. The genesis of Five Star Trust money is the Philippines and Marcos.

[bunny planet]

89. Just read your thoughtful post.

I am very grateful to Olberman for what he's done so far and I did not see the show where he debunked Madsen. I read some stuff from Madsen awhile back on From the Wilderness website that seemed really believable. I'm going to do more research about him now.

Maybe Olberman does not want to give credence to Madsen's theories on his show for other reasons, perhaps he is just frightened. Perhaps he realizes that there has to be some danger in reporting this story. Up until now there hasn't been any proof, just suspicions, and KO wants to appear casual in his reporting. If he acts too serious about it, they will try and shut him down. This is why I think he maintains his sarcastic sense of humor tinged with scepticism throughout for the most part. He believes that something is there, but just doesn't want the * crime family to be all that threatened by what he's reporting, yet. Just my theory. They could make things very difficult for him soon enough.

I read bradblog all the time, he's got a really succinct and comprehensive coverage of Votergate.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IAMREALITY]

98. As I thought

Didn't think you'd respond to below. Thanks for confirming my thoughts.

[rdmccur]

107. I suspect same

[IAMREALITY]

93. Post No Longer Necessary hehe

Deleted Due To Justice Of Original Post

[bardgal]

46. same as a slot machine? can someone verify? seems a stretch.

"Those familiar with the use of Diebold machines to commit voter fraud have revealed that the hardware and software used in Diebold machines used in casinos and polling places is essentially the same, including the back door used to dial in over telephone lines to change payoff odds in gambling machines. The same mechanism was used to change votes, the sources contend."

ok - I have a problem with this part - slot machines use random number gens and are not hooked to phone lines..... of course, I'm not in NV, and don't work for a gambling software co - so could someone verify this?

I want to believe this - but I don't want another Rovian setup to distract and debunk what really happened.

I know the election was stolen. The exit polls are enough proof for me. But without hard evidence, this could be just another smoke and mirrors distract like the 60min memos.

I was in on this story until this paragraph. Now it seems I jumped from the rabbit hole, straight thru the Looking Glass, and now it's just gotten a bit too weird. I can believe someone putting a reg-key into the OS of a GEMS machine, to skew the vote to whatever numbers the BFEE wanted - but saying they use the same technology as a slot machine is too big a leap for me to make.

Anyone work for Nevada Gaming or something similar that can verify this?

[Zan_of_Texas]

51. Here ya go.

Someone else will have to provide casino info, as I have none.

But, early this year the experts hired by the State of Maryland to check out Diebold electronic voting machines did a "red team" test -- attempted to actually hack the stuff. They were "giddy" with how many ways there were to do it -- including using a laptop from anywhere, calling in using a phone line, changing the vote to anything they wanted, exiting, and leaving no trace of their visit. Sounds unbelievable, but it happened, and even worse, Maryland got the report, then APPROVED the purchase of the machines.

Md. computer testers cast a vote: Election boxes easy to mess with

By Stephanie Desmon
Sun Staff (Maryland)
January 30, 2004
<http://www.sunspot.net/news/local/bal-te.md.machine30jan30,0,4050694.story?coll=bal-local-headlines>

For a week, the computer whizzes laid abuse - both high- and low-tech -on the six new briefcase-sized electronic voting machines sent over by the state. One guy picked the locks protecting the internal printers and memory cards. Another figured out how to vote more than once - and get away with it. Still another launched a dial-up attack, using his modem to slither through an electronic hole in the State Board of Elections software. Once inside, he could easily change vote totals that come in on Election Day.

"My guess is we've only scratched the surface," said Michael A. Wertheimer, who spent 21 years as a cryptologic mathematician at the National Security Agency. He is now a director at RABA Technologies in Columbia, the firm that the state hired for about $75,000 to look at Maryland's new touch-screen voting machines scheduled to be unveiled in nearly every precinct in Maryland for the March 2 primary.

<snip>

*Giddy geek speak *
Yet on a recent morning at his offices, Wertheimer's computer programmers were practically giddy as they invented new ways to muck up an election. Some were simple - like the lock-picking or just yanking the cords out of a machine's monitor, disabling it for the rest of the day.

<snip>
*Sneaking in, via modem *
Meanwhile, William A. Arbaugh, an assistant computer science professor at the University of Maryland, College Park and part of the team, easily sneaked his way into the state's computers by way of his modem. Once in, he had access to change votes from actual precincts - because he knew how to exploit holes in the Microsoft software.

<snip>

[mackdaddy]

69. Here is the link to the original MD Report

http://www.raba.com/press/TA_Report_AccuVote.pdf

Pretty straight forward to hack the GEMS tabulator machines as they were unpatched winXP, and could use one of the worm enabling defects to install remote control software by just dialing the modem on the machine, or going thru an internet connection.

The locks on the voting machines were easy to pick, and all used the same key so if you had a key you could open any of them.

What were they thinking!

[AntiFascist]

106. Not only are the electronic voting machines hackable....

but so are the central tabulators, which is potentially far more serious. This is, apparently, how votes in California and Texas were padded in order to give Bush his 3 million vote "mandate."

[rdmccur]

108. Bev Harris

Bev writes about this quite a bit as well, corroborating what you print here.

[jamboi]

60. See posting #45 that describes changing odds by flipping switches. n/t

[Lost Creek]

71. Slots are connected state wide

sometimes more than a hundred are playing for the same jackpot

[eowyn_of_rohan]

92. Connection between net-gambling, casinos, voting equipment & software

We found plenty of solid and possible connections when we were doing our research on Cybernet(s) a week or 2 ago. Many were implied, and I am not sure how many or which we were able to prove, but one was this:

Both Diebold and Cyberco were on the vendor list of Greektown Casino in Detroit.

Funny, I cannot get this link to work now, and get an "application hijacked" message. Haven't heard of that before.

Vendor Registration Application (over $50,000)
DIEBOLD, INCORPORATED - North Canton, OH 44720 - (#25-001583-2002) (Greektown Casino, L.L.C.)
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/Vendorlist_9219_7.doc
inc. diebold and cyberco on list of suppliers?? to Greektown casino LLC

[eowyn_of_rohan]

97. Adding this tidbit...

List of (Michigan) Vendor Exemptions, Suppliers & Exemptions
(11/05/2004 02:02 PM)

Vendor Registration Short Form ($600 - $49,999)
CYBERCO HOLDINGS INC (d/b/a CynerNet Engineering) - Grand Rapids, MI 49503 - (#25-002815-2004) (Greektown Casino, L.L.C.)

[LisaM]

118. Is this the same company whose CEO just killed himself?

http://www.crn.com/sections/breakingnews/dailyarchives.jhtml?articleId=54200945

[eowyn_of_rohan]

119. The very same company--yes. -nt

[LisaM]

120. Hmmm. Well that's a little weird. n/t

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[americanwoman]

62. Was skeptical ... now worried

I was skeptical after the first two articles. Now I'm worried. I think WM revealed quite a bit more in article #3. The problem is, if WM's sources are trustworthy, we're in dangerous territory. Getting to the bottom of this will take guts ... and people who know what the hell they're doing.

[jamboi]

143. Madsen: Congressman Conyers aware of evidence

Madsen writes:

"In a message dated 12/2/2004
jamboi writes:

Is it okay to let this out?

you can tell them there are hearings by House judiciary committee next week and that Conyers is aware of this fraud.

thanks

w"

[IAMREALITY]

144. Sounds like a reference to the PDF letter by Conyers

posted in the other thread. Is it?

[jamboi]

147. I just now scanned that document and I don't see anything that

directly ties in w/ Madsen necessarily. The narrative that Madsen is uncovering is still under the radar and folks like Conyer and MSM are cooperating by keeping the word mum for now.

[ailsagirl]

2. KICK

[Erika]

3. Ah, Do You Think The Republicans Would Vote Pad?

Yes. They have this God Worship of Bush tied into his producing the rapture and while they worship the rich at the same time and denigrate the poor. A real bunch of sickies.

[Syrinx]

4. what is keeping me doubting this story

Why would the Bushies renege on their promise of the 29 million? That's lost in the couch change to these people.

[jsamuel]

6. Money transfers are some of the easiest things to track

If all these former techies all of a sudden have a few million dollars show up in their bank accounts, or they start buying cars....

[Carl Brennan]

49. Bingo. I mentioned this in an earlier article discussion.

They don't want the downstream money trail.

But what is weird is they must have considered the possibility of these techs becoming disgruntled and talking. :shrug:

How many techs are we talking about?

[Liberty Belle]

11. They only need to pay if the techs live.

Has anyone considered the sinister possibility that they are trying to find these techs in order to wipe out evidence of their crimes?
Someone should ask Wayne if the techs are still in their customary locations, or if they've gone into hiding.

If the Mafia orders a hit on someone, it's not unusual to take out the hit man next.

[FULL_METAL_HAT]

132. "Oh sorry the cheque didn't clear. Come to the office for a replacement"

==============================================================================
> Quotes and Scene Summary {nh} {hmw}
==============================================================================
% Another week, another sting. The police force of Springfield, namely Eddie,
% Lou and Chief Clancy Wiggum, are preparing the police station to lure
% outlaws to the building.

Wiggum: I mailed these bogus prize certificates to every scofflaw in
Springfield. When they show up for their free motor boats we arrest
them and beat them to the full extent of the law.
Eddie: So the hook is baited.
Lou: Nice metaphore Eddie!
Wiggum: Yeah, good work, Eddie!
-- With sugar on top, "Lisa the Skeptic"

% Homer is one of the scofflaws Chief Wiggum spoke about, and he's driving
% the family to the station to pick up a motorboat Homer supposedly won.

Homer: Up and away in my beautiful my beautiful motor boat! Da da da da!
Bart: But we didn't enter any police raffle.
Homer: That doesn't matter, the important thing is we won.

Marge: I don't know, there's something very peculiar about
this!
Homer: Sheesh! You're the most paranoid family I've ever been
affiliated with.
-- Care-free Homer, "Lisa the Skeptic"

% Snake beat Homer to the station, but Homer tries to cut to the front of
% the line.

I'd like a yellow boat please, with extra motors.
-- Homer knows what he wants, "Lisa the Skeptic"

Snake: Yo! No cuts bro! Where's my motor boat pig?
Wiggum: Right through that door
Wiggum: Alright, Simpson, Homer. Your'e next.
Homer: Wohoo! Howdy gents. I'm hear to collect my free...
Oh, oh, my boating arm. What's going on?
-- He walked right into it, "Lisa the Skeptic"

Wiggum: Your'e under arrest slimebag, what's this punk in here for Lou?
Lou: 235 unpaid parking tickets, totalling $175.
Wiggum: I hope you brought your'e check book, wiseguy.
Homer: You lousy cops. Lucky for you I'm
double parked. Now, can I please have my motor boat?
-- Uh, sir, you didn't quite get the point, "Lisa the Skeptic"

[geo]

18. just a hunch...

while maintaining a healthy level of skepticism, I will say this: the Bush/Cheney folks have greater plausible deniability if money never changes hands. Then its a bunch of crazy conspiracy theorist criminals trying to get themselves in trouble in order to make the White House look bad. No money = no proof. Or so they think. :) -G

[Syrinx]

20. interesting take! n/t

[pointsoflight]

73. According to Madsen, the check didn't clear.

[bardgal]

109. If they didn't pay, then there is no proof of wrongdoing on their part....

so if they get caught, then the BFEE can say they weren't involved.

[pacalo]

5. He gave a nice credit to DU members who sent him information!

Thanks to members of the Democratic Underground for sending me news items, leads, contacts, and other relevant information.

Great going, guys!

[lizzieforkerry]

7. So the check is good or not?

I'm tired, I couldn't figure it out.

[jamboi]

42. I'm not sure but I thought in one of the articles it said that they'd trie

d to cash the check but hadn't had success.

[New Earth]

8. aww he thanks Democratic Underground

how nice.

i'm still a little skeptical, but feeling more comfortable with the story :)

[tandem5]

9. thank you n/t

[RevCheesehead]

10. It seems that this paragraph needs more details:

"Kevin Russell, a Nassau, Bahamas-based attorney representing Five Star Investments, Ltd., which maintains an office in Nassau and is the corporate entity that received a bank check for $29.6 million that was allegedly associated with paying vote rigging technicians, claims the check has not yet been cleared for payment. In addition, Five Star Investments claims the money has nothing to do with election scamming. Sources familiar with the vote rigging have reported that some of those involved in the operation balked when they were not paid the amount of money they were promised for their services and began revealing the nature of their roles."


The funny thing is, they (Five Star) never say what the payment was for...

[Vote4Kerry]

12. True, and we have serial number of check

Can't we check to see status of check/catch Five Star in a lie?

[lizzieforkerry]

16. later he talks about how 5 star investments is different from

5 star trust. SO are they together, does the check mean anything. I was following Madsen up to this point, but now he has lost me. Please don't let me be left behind!

[Alizaryn]

19. The check

He said it had not been cleared yet?

[idealista]

37. could it be as simple as

Madsen said earlier that the payer of the check was on a list of "unauthorized financial institutions". Maybe the check wasn't paid by the Canadian bank due to some glitch like that, thereby causing the technicians not to be paid.

Also, it makes sense to me to use foreign techs. They would be less loyal to our democracy, less likely to stick around or spill the beans, less likely to be missed if they disappear. Less likely to tell American friends while drunk on a friday night, and more easily disregarded if they do.

If this is all true, Bush has taken irony to a truly mind-blowing level by invading another country to bring it "freedom" and "democracy".

[newyawker99]

136. Hi idealista!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[truehawk]

121. I was wondering if it had been cashed. That may be what this is about

The techs may not have been paid because the check has not been cashed!!

They may be creating too much notarity for the check to be cashed.

[ValleyGirl]

129. ah, that makes a lot more sense to me now

I couldn't understand how the check could have been copied and leaked out there, but I forgot about the payer being listed as a non-Financial Institution, so that would make sense. The FBI could have gotten their hands on the check after it was flagged. But wasn't it a cashier's check from a legitimate bank? Now I am confused again, lol.

[geo]

15. For that amount...

the FBI and CIA are no doubt asking. ;) -G

[deansyawp]

35. That's the thing

Who told Madsen that this check was for vote rigging? How did they know this (this goes back to the question of why the techies would know the source of the big check)? And how could it ever possibly be proved that this money was for this purpose? Too much on the money, not enough on the rigging.

It's especially going to be hard to prove if, as he suggested in his DU Q&A, his sources aren't going to tell their story to the authorities for fear of retribution. It's just his word, via "unnamed sources," and this isn't going to go very far, I'm afraid.

[grumpy old fart]

72. Why would he?

First of all, he's not supposed to. He's a lawyer. Second of all, this is all smoke a mirrors so far. Nothing but so called "informed sources" so far. Nothing solid at all yet, and all this exposure at this point does nothing but drive everything (if there is anything)underground.

[mountebank]

13. Russian programmers associated with Diebold in this article.

http://www.dangerouscitizen.com/Articles/904.aspx

Diebold Internal Memos Admit Voting Machine Flaws

"According to Harris, this means that only three people in the world know what's in the Diebold software code used to run several elections, particularly in California. Two of these individuals are Canadian and one is a Russian living in Canada. Their names: Ken Clark, Talbot Iredale (a stockholder), and Dmitry Papushin."

Think it's related to Madsen's article? We need to dig up more info on these Diebold people who were lurking around CA precincts during the 2002 election, like in San Luis Obispo. This was all hashed through about a year ago on www.blackboxvoting.org and on DU. Anyone with links? Eloriel? - I know you bookmark like mad....

I'm still VERY skeptical of this story, and this addition did not help. Still, it would be such a huge story, it's worth it to be on the crest of the wave.....

[Vote4Kerry]

17. That's great information--send it to Madsen!

That's good information you just posted! You should send it to Madsen here:

[e-mail]

[Twist_U_Up]

22. wasnt bush in canada today ?

hmmmmmm

[Paligal]

55. OMG, you cracked the case, Columbo!

Are you SERIOUS???
I was hoping to find rational people here. Instead, people actually thinking they figured out Bush's REAL reason for visiting Canada. The whole meeting with the Prime Minister thing was a big coverup. Yeah, Bush's real M.O. was to track down the Russian computer programmer in Canada and murder him. All you need is a computer disc with the secret code to destroy the world and some CIA operatives lurking in the shadows, and we've got a Hollywood blockbuster!

[nodictators]

81. What was Bush's real reason for visiting Columbus, OH on 11/2?

Yeah, 11/2 was Election Day. So, Bush flew from Texas to Columbus to DC. His stop in Columbus was to thank his campaign workers, or so they say.

Reportedly, Bush also met with "Uncle Ken" Blackwell, Ohio secretary of state and co-chair of the Ohio Bush/Cheney campaign.

Which is more rational, Bush stopping in Columbus to thank his campaign workers, or Bush stopping there to huddle with Blackwell?

I don't know what Bush might have done in Canada. But secret meetings have taken place with some of our elected presidents.

[peacetalksforall]

140. Don't worry about Bush being in Ohio on Nov 2...don't ya know, they

keep Prezzies dumb when it comes to their crimes so that they can say they didn't know a la Reagan, Bush-poppy, and now probably Bush jr. Why have them get their hands dirty when they have a cast of thosands to do the work?

[Alizaryn]

25. All sorts of "support "conversations here (Talbot Iredale)

http://search.yahoo.com/search?_adv_prop=web&x=op&ei=UTF-8&prev_vm=p&fr=fp-top&va=&va_vt=any&vp=Talbot+Iredale+&vp_vt=any&vo=&vo_vt=any&ve=&ve_vt=any&vd=all&vst=0&vs=&vf=all&vm=i&vc=&fl=0&n=10

[ailsagirl]

27. I just looked up Dmitry Papushin and came up with 1350 hits...

[mountebank]

33. MORE ON PAPUSHIN from Bev's book....

From Bev's book Chapter 13 pgs. 180-181 on www.blackboxvoting.org. Hope I can cut-and-paste this without stepping on toes.....

Papushin uploaded more voting-system software
Security Breaches 181 onto the unprotected Diebold Web site than any other programmer.
Papushin has been a keeper of the passwords and the king of singlesentence
memos. He knows the voting-system programming intimately
and has uploaded computer code that programs your smart card,
captures your votes at the polling place and accumulates and reports
them at the county.
His programming skills and his ability to distribute programs to
techs and county officials make him a tempting target for bribery.
We assume that Dmitry Papushin has integrity and ironclad ethics.
But to deter the unscrupulous from making inappropriate solitications
to programmers like Papushin, we need to enforce regulations which
require that only authorized software be used, and we need fraud-deterring
audit procedures.

[geo]

14. Dissect! Dissect! Dissect! :)

Hi all,

Mr. Madsen inicates that modems were used, and that the technique was similar to how people cna change odds in Vegas machines.

Does anyone know how it is done? :) Does the machine have to be hooked to a phone line at the time? Are we talking central tabulators or machines in individual precincts?

Anyone? :) :)

Warmly,

George

[ailsagirl]

30. I would think that anyone who works with BBV would know

I just so happen to have the email address of a man I know works for them. I could shoot him a message and put to him the questions George posed-- can't hurt!!

I'll do that right now and will get back to you with any relevant information.

A.

[AnIndependentTexan]

31. you mean like this?

This happen on the first day of early voting in FLA. My question is are these these phonelines connected to the central computer database that stores the votes? I also want to know why it says 2000 and not 2004? Does this mean these machines were used in 2000 as well as 2004? Or are they refering to what happen in 2000

http://www.stpetetimes.com/2004/10/19/Decision2004/Voters_abide_waits__g.shtml

Three of the counties with problems - Hillsborough, Orange and Broward - use the same Internet provider to connect computers at polling sites with a central computer database, said Jenny Nash, a spokeswoman for Secretary of State Glenda Hood.

The computer glitch did not affect the controversial touch screen machines installed in 15 counties after the 2000 election.

Instead, the problem shut down the laptop computers that elections officials need to check voters' identities. When voters arrive at the polls, officials use those computers to verify voters' identities and ensure they get the correct ballot.

When computers were down, elections officials were forced to use phones to call for the voting data, a far more lengthy process.

[RevCheesehead]

38. WHOA! Were laptop glitches used to disenfranchise voters?

Maybe this is a wild theory, but what if the laptops couldn't get into their program because the VOTING DATA was being cooked? Change an address, a middle initial, a delete here or there, and you've got lots of spoiled ballots or people who appear as not registered.

[Vote4Kerry]

125. kick!

[Woo]

45. Now I don't know anything...

About hacking computers -- and most of us probably know about 'gambling theories' and how reliable they are -- but several years ago when the casinos hit big in Tunica, MS -- a friend told me about 'turning sections of slots on and off' -- or changing the odds -- So I started watching the folks in the casino when I went -- there are central computers for sections of slots located all over the casino -- I would see the guy unlock these cabinets -- punch in a few buttons and sure enough one section of slots went cold and another one would go hot --

So my point is -- it would seem to me you could do all of this from a central computer just like they do in casinos.

[eowyn_of_rohan]

99. Suspected as much with my electronic poker streaks -nt

[AnIndependentTexan]

48. Slot machine experts consulted on voting technology

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/10/28/nevada.evote/

It was an unusual request but an interesting challenge for the engineers who spend their time testing, dismantling, and figuring out how a cheater might compromise any of the thousands of loud, dizzying, dazzling slot machines licensed in the state.

The lab where these engineers and computer scientists work has dozens of slot machines, with music and video displays ranging from "Wheel of Fortune" to "Wayne's World" to "The Platypus Game."

"Once it gets down to the real heart of the matter, a processor is a processor, it is only the interface that makes a difference," said Marc McDermott, chief of the electronic services division of the Nevada Gaming Control Board. "On a slot machine the interface is the spinning reels or the video display, on a voting machine you have different buttons."

While he could not actually take apart any e-voting systems, McDermott reviewed tests and literature available on several electronic voting systems. The state eventually decided to put its money on touchscreen machines from Sequoia Voting Systems.

[AnIndependentTexan]

52. I do not believe this is what he is talking about

I'm going to add a disclaimer just to be safe. I don't think this has anything to do with what he is talking about, but it goes into telling how slot machines can be hacked.

http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,19433,00.html

Nikrasch apparently bought a slot machine to practice on at home and obtained extra computer chips from the machine's manufacturer. He probably got the keys required to open the casinos' machines on the black market, where casino employees can sell copies for thousands of dollars.

In the casinos, his partners would crowd around to block the surveillance camera's view while Nikrasch opened the machine and the housing around the computer chip. He would then attach clips to either side of the chip, use a handheld device to force-feed it the jackpot code, and close the works back up -- all in under a minute.

One of Nikrasch's partners would then sit down to "play." The next coin, of course, would trigger the jackpot.

There's no way of knowing how many other technology-driven scams are going on or how much they cost the gambling industry. Unlike other businesses, there's no lost inventory to count. "You don't know you're being cheated," said Copher, "until you catch someone."

Copher should know. Just last year, Gaming Control arrested a man for rigging the computer programs in several slots to scam $50,000. The cheat turned out to be one of his own agents.

[Zan_of_Texas]

54. see the fourth post, above, re the RABA hack test

eom

[DoYouEverWonder]

59. Yes, modem lines and Internet transmissions are used

In the FL counties that use optical scanners the results are transmitted via modem after the polls are closed. The results are then tabulated at the Board of Elections office (or wherever the tabulator happens to be kept). At the poll, two tapes are printed out. One tape is stays with the box with the ballots, the 2nd tape is attached to the precinct door. The next day the SOE compares the tapes from the precincts to the totals on their print out. At that point, the 'unofficial' results are transmitted via the Internet to the SOS in Tallahassee. The local SOE also sends a written report with just the totals to the SOS for comparison.

So at two different points in the process the numbers are transmitted via modem and/or over the Internet.

[americanwoman]

83. Tally before Modeming?

DoYouEverWonder,

That would seem fine if:

1) At the poll, the tape printout totals compare favorably to a set of voter-verified printed ballots.

AND

2) The printout tapes at the polls are compared to (and equal) to the results put out by SOS.

If either one of these doesn't happen --> leaves a big hole for error.

(In other words, the modem transmission in and of itself isn't bad, IF there are proper checks.)

[DoYouEverWonder]

126. The only way to know for sure

is to do a manual count of the ballots.

For about $35/hr anyone can go count ballots now that the election in FL has been certified.

[Twist_U_Up]

21. He mentions DU !!!!

Thanks to members of the Democratic Underground for sending me news items, leads, contacts, and other relevant information.

[budkin]

24. Sweet!

God I love DU!

[Chasing Dreams]

32. Me too, even more than

the Blazers' victory over the Magic last week.

Hey, none of us here has had much to smile about lately other than the information compiled at/by DU, and an occasional win by our home town team.:)

[jamboi]

50. Yes, I'd asked him to somehow publically acknowledge he'd been on doing

Q&A the other night and that's how he did it. Sweet! So much for all the "was that really Wayne Madsen?" silliness.

[Pepper32]

102. lol, I'm so glad he did that...

Some people have their tin foil hats on too tight.

[Chasing Dreams]

23. One reason why the Nevada judge threw out the recount suit:

gaming industry pressure?

"Those familiar with the use of Diebold machines to commit voter fraud have revealed that the hardware and software used in Diebold machines used in casinos and polling places is essentially the same, including the back door used to dial in over telephone lines to change payoff odds in gambling machines. The same mechanism was used to change votes, the sources contend."

[Woo]

26. Maybe we should check out ...

Northstar -- which is mentioned in this article, not to say they are the same thing I'm speaking of below

I was in the shower while this was on -- but my mother was telling me something about a story she saw tonight on NBC Nightly News(Tom Brokaw) -- and I'm certain she mentioned the name Northstar -- seems they were hired to do the accounting as it pertains to Iraqi oil money(she was astonished because this Northstar is operating out of someones house) -- a bunch of money is missing -- something about they paid people in cash -- sorry, I got the story second hand -- I'll check up on it... but I'm lazy about google searches...

[Tace]

29. Five Star NOT Northstar -- Same Thing Went Through My Mind When

I read about the Iraq "accounting" firm. Similar-sounding, but different, I think.

[Woo]

34. Maybe not...

Madsen mentions a Northstar in his article --

'Northstar Investors' Trust of Bellevue, Washington'

I need to read again to understand the tie ins...

I'm not sure it's the same Northstar but here's the story that aired today on NBC news -- that mentions Northstar... a consultant company, not an accounting firm -- that has possibly 'misplaced' billions of Iraqi oil dollars...

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6621523/

Should we try to connect these if it is relevant -- or just forget it?

[Carni]

78. What was the name of the company Nick Berg had ?

I cannot remember if his partner was Iraqi or a Saudi but Nick Berg (the guy that was beheaded) I thought had a company with a name like Northstar but I am most likely confused!

[Razorback_Democrat]

88. Berg's Company: Prometheus Methods Tower Service-n/t

[Carni]

91. Yes, that's it

I really botched that one!

[RevCheesehead]

39. Well, the Northstar Investments definately tie in with Five Star:

"Ferrera's name also surfaced in a 1994 Securities and Exchange Commission investigation of Northstar Investors' Trust of Bellevue, Washington. In that case, Grady Lewis Hand was indicted for a $3 million investment fraud. However, Hand was defended by the former head of the Drug Enforcement Administration's secret "CENTAC" unit, Dennis Dayle. Hand and Dayle claimed the investment fraud was actually a CIA front to fund off-the-books intelligence operations being hidden from Congress. They said the money actually went to "General Robert L. Ferrera," said then to have worked for the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), the forerunner of the CIA."

[Carni]

87. You won't believe this Faux news anchor heads Northstar equity group

Get a load of this...Is Northstar equity part of the Northstar Madsen is talking about? Look at the below!

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:_h3cupHu978J:inn.globalfreepress.com/modules/news/article.php%3Fstoryid%3D294+nick+berg+northstar&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Ambassador Marc Ginsberg
Ginsberg is managing director and CEO of Northstar Equity Group, an affiliate of APCO Worldwide, a global consulting and public affairs company headquartered in Washington, D.C....He appears frequently on Fox News Channel and CNN as a foreign policy analyst.

INN found one New Fields -conference on December 4 in Arlington, a "two-day Second Rebuilding Iraq conference" brought together a high-level delegation from the Iraqi Governing Council and representatives of companies eager to do business in Iraq.

400 attendees packed a conference center at the Sheraton National Hotel in Arlington VA to hear Sami Izara al Majoun, the Iraqi Minister of Work and Social Affairs, and Rend al Rahim, the Iraqi Governing Council's newly appointed representative to the United States.

Moderated by Pillsbury Winthrop partner Ayaz Shaikh featured Ambassador Michael Mele, the Iraq Program Manager of the US Army Corps of Engineers, George Sigalos, Vice President for Government Relations at Halliburton, and Ambassador Marc Charles Ginsberg, CEO of Northstar Equity Group.

I also just happened upon an article about the first lesbian couple who were married in Boston, or wherever, (was it this summer?)...
to get to the point Diane Sawyer interviewed the women and the one named Julie works for Northstar - what a coincidence (probably NOT IMO)

No wonder the gay marriage issue was so heavily blasted out there so conveniently before the election...it could just be a coincidence, but I tend to doubt that.

[seafan]

100. Ginsberg has ties to task force offering "business advice" in Middle East.

Marc Ginsberg, former U.S. ambassador to Morocco, will coordinate the task force for APCO (www.apcoworldwide.com). Ginsberg is a senior vice presidentat APCO and runs its affiliate, Northstar Equity Group, which offers business advice to companies operating in the Middle East.

Might be worth looking into more.

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:ZPcPxvG8kZUJ:washington.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2003/06/02/newscolumn5.html+Ambassador+Marc+Charles+Ginsberg,+CEO+of+Northstar+Equity+Group.&hl=en

[Carni]

113. "Doug Baker" is involved in the rebuilding of Iraq/Baker III's son

Baker III's son DOUG and all the usual suspects are involved in the Iraq rebuild so I would assume that Ginsberg fits in with all the usual suspects somehow! In addition I wonder if he's the son of the Ginsberg that had to resign from the bushit campaign?

Below are the goods on "Doug Baker"

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:xdPAZC-350IJ:www.ibgc.com/wibr/2003%2520WIBR/November%252003%2520Who.htm+TSA+james+baker&hl=en&ie=UTF-8


International Business - Government Counsellors, Inc.
DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY AND CHAIRMAN OF AFGHANISTAN RECONSTRUCTION TASK FORCE AND IRAQ TASK FORCE - Kevin Murphy has left the Department to pursue other interests. No replacement has yet been named. However, Murphy’s Iraq and Afghanistan Reconstruction portfolios will shift to Douglas Baker, who will continue as Deputy Assistant Secretary for Service Industries, Tourism and Finance. Baker is the son of former Secretary of State, James Baker.

More below about Doug Baker's appointment by Bush in Nov 2001

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:LRmQ8iD44uAJ:www.state.gov/g/oes/rls/25874.htm+Douglas+Baker,+deputy+assistant+secretary+for+tourism+at+the+U.S.+Department+of+Commerce&hl=en&ie=UTF-8


Baker, Douglas B.
BIOGRAPHY

Douglas B. Baker
Deputy Assistant Secretary
Service Industries, Tourism, and Finance
International Trade Administration

Mr. Baker was appointed by the Bush Administration to be the Deputy Assistant Secretary for Service Industries, Tourism, and Finance, within the International Trade Administration in the United States Department of Commerce. He has served in this position since November 13, 2001.

Mr. Baker oversees and manages four separate offices, which develop trade policy and implement trade promotion activities for US businesses in the service, tourism and finance industries. The services sector represents approximately 75% of the economy of the United States. This office also works with companies that seek to increase exports under the Export Company Trading Affairs Act, which was signed into law in 1982, by then President Ronald Reagan. This program provides certain antitrust protections for businesses that create partnerships for the express purpose of exporting, with a strong focus on small and medium-sized businesses.

Prior to joining the Bush Administration, Mr. Baker served as the executive director and deputy general counsel for the Harris County-Houston Sports Authority from 1999-2001. During his tenure, the Sports Authority financed and developed more than $1,000,000,000 in sports-related infrastructures.

[Razorback_Democrat]

90. Ferrera Info:

United States v. Hand, 76 F.3d 393 (10th Cir. 12/15/1995)
http://www.quatloos.com/hyip_hand.htm
II. Testimony of "General" Ferrara
Hand argues the trial court erred in failing to compel Ferrara to testify or in failing to require Ferrara to invoke the Fifth Amendment before the jury. Ferrara was allegedly one of Hand's high placed government contacts who was a liaison between the Mexican and American governments. Hand delivered a total of $215,000 in cash to Ferrara in three separate installments at the Orlando airport during the summer of 1993. During Hand's trial, Ferrara was awaiting trial for alleged wire fraud and securities violations not related to the instant offense. After examining Ferrara and his attorney, the district court declared Ferrara unavailable for purposes of Fed. R. Evid. 804.
Ferrara was clearly entitled to invoke the Fifth Amendment privilege of self-incrimination. Any admission concerning the receipt of funds by Ferrara from Hand because of Ferrara's fraudulent representations could have constituted a federal or state crime. The privilege is to be liberally construed in favor of a witness. Hoffman v. United States, 341 U.S. 479, 486, 71 S.Ct. 814, 818, 95 L.Ed. 1118 (1951); United States v. Hart, 729 F.2d 662, 670 (10th Cir. 1984), cert. denied, 469 U.S. 1161, 105 S.Ct. 914, 83 L.Ed.2d 927 (1985). Additionally, a defendant has no right to force a witness to invoke the privilege in front of a jury. Hart, 729 F.2d at 670. Therefore, the district court did not err in refusing to compel Ferrara to testify or to force Ferrara to invoke his privilege in the presence of the jury.

[GDoyle]

28. Kevin Russell

Not sure I completely follow the article. But is this the Kevin Russell attorney he is referring to?

http://www.russlawbahamas.com/

He's in the Bahamas and has an e-mail address. Maybe we could e-mail him and asked him if he rigged the United States elections?

GDoyle

[RevCheesehead]

36. I'm confused by something.

The article begins by claiming 5-Star Trust is the one who rigged the elections. Yet Kevin Russel, the attorney for 5-Star Investments, says that they have received the check for $29 million. Later in the article, Madsen says that FS Investments claims they have no connection to FS Trust. Yet the case in Mexico seems to prove there was a connection between the two:

"In the case summary it is stated that Ferrera "assigned and delivered some of the Mexican notes to an associate in Lexington, Kentucky, who owned Five Star Investments, Ltd." According to information from the Internal Revenue Service, Tax ID Number 61-6234232 was issued to Five Star Trust, a Foreign Asset Protection Trust registered in the Isle of Man. Five Star Investments claims it has nothing to do with Five Star Trust."

So why did FS-Investments get a check for $29 million? Who was it from, and what was it for? Was this one of the steps in a money-laundering scheme? Did the check get flagged by the FBI or CIA? Or are they truly an independent company - and if so, what do they have to hide?

[Razorback_Democrat]

94. Try To Find "Five Star Trust" or "Five Star Investments"

not much shows up,

But here is what i've found:

Five Star Development Company- a commercial real estate company doing business along the border of the US and Mexico.
http://www.fivestardevelopment.com/?OVRAW=five%20star%20investments&OVKEY=five%20star&OVMTC=advanced

A web site that had a number of companies listed, but I don't read this language:
126113,"Five Star Investment Corporation",,7/24/2002 0:00:00,7/24/2002 0:00:00,"TITLE: 7-1.1","DBC","TO HOLD MORTGAGES AND OTHER INVESTMENTS ON BEHALF OF ITS PARENT, THE WASHINGTON TRUST COMPANY OF WESTERLY","8,000 $0.01 PAR VALUE","RHODE ISLAND","CT CORPORATION SYSTEM",,"10 WEYBOSSET STREET","PROVIDENCE","RI","02903-","JOHN","WARREN","C",,"DIR","171 B OCEAN ROAD","NARRAGANSETT","RI","02882-","USA

The most interesting link requires registration and paying for information, so I didn't go any further than this:
http://www.kycnews.com/story_index.asp#f
has some info to subscribers on “five star trust”? “Know Your Customer” news about offshore investing and fraud.


But I have no idea if any of these are related to the Five Star that Madsen is talking about.

[Paligal]

40. This article even worse than the last two

I'm starting to get really PO'd at this guy. Every time I think "Now he's going to come up with some evidence", he merely makes more unsupported allegations, and now, he even retracts that whole 29 million dollar check thing everyone was screaming about as "proof".

I mean, this is beyond bad journalism. He alleges that foreign nationals were used to "fix" the machines, but then goes on to talk about some volunteers- VOLUNTEERS- that were paid $14 an hour to learn how to help at polling places. With the amount of immigrants we have from Latin America, I hardly think that's unusual. I mean, it's about as unusual as...let's say, an investment firm getting a check for $29 million. In other words, not.

So, while he has some very tempting and "the jig is up" allegations, NONE of the actual hard evidence he cites has anything to do with the allegations, and it doesn't even back up his allegations.

I'm so done with this story until Madsen comes up with something to actually confirm his claims. I mean, I really really want there to be something there, but we now have THREE stories of: Zilch that we can follow up on. Theories woven together through completely unrelated truths, in the attempt that the rest will appear true as well.

You actually want me to believe that a bunch of Mexicans, Brazilians, and Russians who were never paid for a fraudulent vote rigging operation DIDN'T run to the media to become big huge superstars and change the course of history as we know it? Not one of them? Please. Call me a freeper, as you undoubtedly will, but many of you have lost your perspective in all of this, and at this point, I am starting to suspect Madsen of messing with our heads.

A dose of skepticism, people. If this theory is true, then Madsen needs to do his investigation, and report when, and only when, he has at least one piece of hard evidence. Then, believe me, I will be the first to climb on board. Till then, I feel I am being toyed with.

[jamboi]

43. Actually there's tons there to check out. But feel free to ignore it if it

doesn't make sense to you. There's plenty of fraud to go around. :-) Healthy skepticism is fine. Also though this is investigative journalism being released in mid-investigation which is not the way you'd normally get it, so its definitely going to be only partially digested. That's just the way it is for now. I for one would rather get what he has quickly then wait around for the complete story. We've already helped in fleshing out parts of the story.

[Woo]

58. Well...

He's essentially told you how it was done -- there's a backdoor in the software exactly like what they use in casino slot machines. I don't think it's much of a back door in a casino, is it?

I thought it was widely known that the casino could control odds on machines(like stated in a post I made up above) The machine just has to pay out a certain amount of money in its lifetime and the casino has to pay out a certain amount over the course of a year -- but there was no regulation in how all of that was controlled.

So it's as simple as them seizing some of these machines that they haven't scrubbed yet(the clock is ticking) and finding out if such a thing exist. -- or maybe it's not that simple.

Something that serves the same purpose in a casino would have no earthly business in a voting machine... there's no way you could explain it away -- that's your smoking gun...

[Carni]

80. Wait a minute--In the case of slot machines isn't there a hand held device

That cheaters were using to crack them/ hack them, or whatever at one point in time?

If the voting machines work the same way as a slot machine then couldn't basically anyone carry in a hand held device that changes the tabulation, or whatever of the machines?

That to me would make more sense than getting poll workers to get on board with such a project.

[americanwoman]

85. Similarity to casino machines almost irrelevant

It seems to me that getting hung up on how closely the Diebold machines are to casino machines is practically irellevant. Fixing votes takes little more than unsupervised access (by someone who knows the software) to voting machines and/or tabulators. In other words, as illustrated by Bev's book and Chuck Herrin and others, the HOW is really the trivial part. It's (unfortunatly) a piece of cake.

[jamboi]

145. Hmmm... interesting. n/t

[ValleyGirl]

70. Re: the $29m check

I have no idea if Madsen's reports are correct or not (although I am keeping an open mind to all this), but I don't think he necessarily was retracting his belief about the check. What he did was relay what their ATTORNEY said - and really, does anyone expect a lawyer to say "Oh yeah, the $29m check? That's my clients' election rigging money, you bet." Of course he would deny it. That doesn't make it true/untrue, I'm just sayin.

[bunny planet]

101. the check is the hardest thing for me to believe. I know there is rampant

imperial hubris with this crowd of Rethugs but don't they usually carry attache cases full of CASH!!!! A check seems so risky. Even payment in diamonds (or dubloons, they are pirates after all) makes more sense than a check.

[americanwoman]

104. The check thing ...

is addressed to some degree by author in this summary of his discussion w/ DU members here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x88322

[bunny planet]

105. But his latest article says the check was not cashed. I am confused.

[ValleyGirl]

128. Five Star Investments said that

His article says that Five Star Investments (or their attorney, Kevin Russell) is who's saying the check hasn't cleared yet. That may or may not be true, who knows. It would seem to me that the check would have to be deposited in order for Madsen to get a digital copy but who knows.

[pointsoflight]

74. Retract? Uh, read again, nowhere does he retract.

[in_cog_ni_to]

133. Uhhh, in case you didn't know this,

people who tell Bush secrets DIE. If his informants came forward, they would be killed by the BFEE. THAT, you can take to the bank.

[Twist_U_Up]

41. kick

[jamboi]

135. .

[proudtobeadem]

44. Does anyone think the dem that lost candidate knew??

"One unsuccessful Democratic candidate in California voiced concerns about whether the alleged vote padding in his state affected his own vote count."

If yes, we can try to find out who that is.

[bardgal]

47. same as a slot machine? can someone verify? seems a stretch.

"Those familiar with the use of Diebold machines to commit voter fraud have revealed that the hardware and software used in Diebold machines used in casinos and polling places is essentially the same, including the back door used to dial in over telephone lines to change payoff odds in gambling machines. The same mechanism was used to change votes, the sources contend."

ok - I have a problem with this part - slot machines use random number gens and are not hooked to phone lines..... of course, I'm not in NV, and don't work for a gambling software co - so could someone verify this?

I want to believe this - but I don't want another Rovian setup to distract and debunk what really happened.

I know the election was stolen. The exit polls are enough proof for me. But without hard evidence, this could be just another smoke and mirrors distract like the 60min memos.

I was in on this story until this paragraph. Now it seems I jumped from the rabbit hole, straight thru the Looking Glass, and now it's just gotten a bit too weird. I can believe someone putting a reg-key into the OS of a GEMS machine, to skew the vote to whatever numbers the BFEE wanted - but saying they use the same technology as a slot machine is too big a leap for me to make.

Anyone work for Nevada Gaming or something similar that can verify this?

[Paligal]

53. I agree

While I want people to quietly keep following this trail, there are some major holes in this story, and I am starting to feel really toyed with. One of the main points of contention that I read from computer programmers was that Diebold makes software for Casinos that is completely secure and can't be tampered with, so why can't they make election software the same? Now Madsen asserts that the casino software is not secure.

Also, I don't know why he can't name the democratic candidate in California who wonders if he might have suffered, should the story be true about padding. This is not a source for sensitive information, and there should be no reason to have to protect the identity of a failed candidate who is merely wondering something.

I feel the same- that there was DEFINITELY fraud in this election. But I suspect (and hope I am proven wrong) that this story is a wild goose chase that will ultimately lead to nothing and embarrassment. It just has too many red flags. My final straw was the allegation that several foreign hackers from Mexico, Brazil, and Russia were used and not paid, yet we are to believe that they spoke to nobody about this except him. Knowing human nature, I believe if this were true, at least one of these guys would go to someone with a big name and spill the beans for fame and a book deal. If they were going to risk it all by going public anyway, why go to Madsen? Plus, if they did go public with their story (to Madsen), it would be foolish for them to do so without any proof of their work, which begs the question, where is the proof that they would have provided? Madsen cites none of it, yet makes the claim.

Sorry to be the naysayer. It doesn't mean I'm not behind the election fraud cause. I just want people to use their logic and wait with dissemination of this story to the broader non-believing audience, until Madsen can flesh it out for us with some harder evidence. I understand the sort of thrill this story brings. I must admit that I spent a good hour digging on the Internet with the prospect that I'd come up with the proof to crack the case. After discovering dozens of "Five Star" companies and scouring hacker websites, I realized the folly of my enthusiasm. We want to believe, so we are seduced by stories like these. Who knows? The truth may be as sinister as this. But I just don't see the chunk of hard evidence that anchors this story so that we can fill in the connections. It seems all hazy connections, and no verifiable anchor to tie it together.

OK. I know I'm viewed as the humbug, but I worry that this will be sent to the media and then we will be forever featured on Anderson Cooper's "Conspiracy Theories" show along with the UFO guys (in fact, this is already true). I want the media to take our outrage seriously, and that means showing them some proof, not just allegations. So as long as this story stays floating around here, I don't have a problem, but there was talk of sending it all over the place last I checked.

[Zan_of_Texas]

56. Skepticism is healthy.

Whether you are listening to Fox News explain how we are bringing democracy to Iraq, or reading Madsen's prose. (He does need to write better -- he must be in a hurry.)

Remember, the kind of "evil" the Right Wing likes to expose involves someone with their zipper down -- it's easy to understand, takes no small print or paragraph after paragraph of names no one has ever heard of. Of course, an extramarital affair does not ordinarily involve killing 100,000 people in a war either.

The kind of evil that is really affecting our world and making life difficult for all but a tiny few is quite complicated. The money trails are obscure by design. The people with their hands on the levers of power are concealed, by design, and use front people, just like drug kingpins do not dirty their hands by dealing nickel bags on the streets.

I say this as someone who has researched constantly for over two years, for several books (not mine, but published authors).

Demand proof that the vote went as THEY say.

Demand proof that the vote was stolen as Madsen says.

And, demand proof that the officials and judges we supposedly put in office to serve us and protect us are doing just that.

[BlueDog2u]

64. Regretably, I have to agree

with the last few posters who have expressed skepticism. This third article simply does not deliver. It's filled with more unsubstantiated speculation and doesn't even tell us what the five star attorney claims the check was supposed to be for. If Madsen can't do better than this, then he's not giving anyone much to go on. One would expect by this time, if these stories were true, that he would have something more tangible and conclusive to point to.

[jamboi]

146. Keep an open mind. The next article uses sworn affadavit evidence

so hopefully we'll have something more solid than "unamed sources". Also he writes:

"In a message dated 12/2/2004
jamboi writes:

Is it okay to let this out?

you can tell them there are hearings by House judiciary committee next week and that Conyers is aware of this fraud.

thanks

w"

[jamboi]

57. See posting #45 that describes changing odds by flipping switches.n/t

[Igel]

68. The (supposed) switches are on the machine.

The claim is that you can hack casino machines by phone. Is it a true claim?

It's a simple empirical question. Does it have an answer?

[bobbyboucher]

123. Please explain the identical, consecutive posts,

thanks. What, posting it once just wasn't enough so you had to run down the thread and post the exact same thing again?

I think that I'll call bullshit on you. BULLSHIT!

That slot machine complaint is a very red herring. Good effort.

[jamboi]

61. Anyone who's serious about organizing research on this plz join me here

New, Improved Madsen Research Project Strategy Thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=201

[jamboi]

103. Corrected Link for Madsen Research

Corrected Link for Madsen Research
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x6212

[Bread and Circus]

63. Did you catch this: he thanks DU'ers....

"Thanks to members of the Democratic Underground for sending me news items, leads, contacts, and other relevant information."

Man, if what he says is all true that is so cool.

If what he says is make believe then........ :shrug:

[Karmadillo]

65. Still appears not to have talked directly with anyone involved.

"Sources with details of the vote rigging stated that some foreign nationals..." etc.

There's really not much to be skeptical of here because there's really not much here, at least not yet. To be honest, I think he's being played. The earlier stories read like disinformation and this one does, too. Until he can back up his claims with something better than what he's provided so far, I think I'm going to pass.

[suziedemocrat]

66. Notes from poll worker.

I worked at the election in Indiana. We used Diebold touch screen machines.

But - I don't get the Modem connection. Maybe some machines were hooked up to a modem, but ours weren't. Where I worked, the machines we used were never hooked up to a phone line. I don't know if any other precincts had their voting machines hooked up to a modem, but we didn't. I would like to know if someone actually can confirm if any of these machines were ever hooked up to a modem.

Out voting machines WERE at the site before we got there (unsecured) and we LEFT the machines at the polling place (also unsecured) and took the printout of totals to the Elections Board. Each poll worker had to sign two copies of the totals printout of each machine. Some of us actually wrote down the totals for our own knowledge on scrap pieces of paper. We signed printouts from each machine at the beginning and end of the day. I didn't pay attention to the beginning - but I assume it was to assure the machines started at zero. There was no record of each vote cast, but the totals did have to match the number of signatures in the book of people registered. You sign that book when you come in to vote. If the machines totals and the signatures are off by even one - you have to explain it. We had to turn in the registration book with all the signatures along with the signed, machine total printouts to the elections board.

I have come up with a few ways the vote could be rigged.

1) Bad code. This seems the most straight forward to me. I am a computer programmer - and that is how I would have done it. You could say - every 20th vote goes for Bush or something like that. Something very low key. No one has seen the code. And even if we DID see the code - how would we know it was the code loaded on to the machine? The executable, compiled code loaded on the machines would not be readable by most humans. An unscrupulous person (or well paid Foreign National ;-) ) could even show up at the polling place ahead of the election and load his own code onto the machine. Our machines weren't locked up or anything. Someone could have had access the the machines at midnight before the election and loaded new code onto them and left. No one would have known, unless security saw them. Our polling place was not locked the night before. I know - I'm new to the area and went there the night before to make sure I didn't get lost the next morning. Or, a VERY small group of people working at Diebold could have slightly modified the accepted, tested code and loaded the modified code onto at least some of the machines just before they left Diebold. To me modified code would be the best way to steal an election. Absolutely NO PAPER trail at all!!! Each voter didn't get a written receipt of his vote. All you have are the total printouts. It seems to me "Foreign Nationals" would be very conspicuous if they showed up during the day on Nov 2nd. Each polling place has at least two workers from each party. (Although - I just moved here and for all the Democrats know - I could actually be a Republican.) I would think the names of the poll workers would be public knowledge. It seems to me contacting the poll workers for some of the more problematic precincts would be a good idea.

2) Somehow alter - or create new signed printouts before they were given to the elections board. Does anyone remember the reports on dKos of poll workers not taking the signed printouts straight to the election board. There was even a photograph posted on dKos where people were loading information into a pick-up truck with Bush/Chenny stickers. That to me is very fishy!

2) Change the totals AFTER the election. To do this I would think people at the elections office would need to be involved. This seems to be what Bev Harris is investigating. Someone could easily change the totals on the machine, even by casting extra ballots after the election, then just create another printout. The printout would be dated, but I have NEVER worked on a system where you couldn't change the system date. The new printout of the totals wouldn't have signatures of all of the poll workers, but I wouldn't think it would be impossible to forge a few signatures and create new "signed" total printouts. If someone REALLY wanted to cover their tracks, they would need to also add signatures to the registration book. Assuming anyone ever looks at that book after Nov 2nd. From what Bev Harris is turning up - the people in Florida seem to be doing a piss-poor job of covering their tracks!!!! I hope I'm not giving them any pointers.

Anyway -- those are my thoughts. A lot of this goes along with my experience. But not the modems/phone lines. I would like someone to verify that some of these machines were hooked up to phone lines. Every state/county/etc does elections differently - so it is very possible some machines were hooked to phone lines. But I'd like that verified.

[suziedemocrat]

67. Just read post #59 from DoYouEverWonder

It explains everything. Thanks!

[myschkin]

84. thank you, great reflections

I think this is important. Can someone forward it to the important people... (Bev etc.)?

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NVMojo]

76. And thank YOU, Mr. Madsen!!

If we all stick together and focus our efforts, who knows what can happen?!

The repuke neocons are really gonna be p-o'd when they read this article and see DU mentioned on there for helping out!! An army of freelance investigators and questioners!! WOOOO-HOOOOO!

[wlubin]

79. This certainly explains why Palm Beach county will not hand over records.

"In populous counties in Florida, Texas, and California, the vote padding ensured that Bush's nationwide popular vote margin was well in excess of 3 million votes, giving him 51 percent of the national vote over John Kerry."

[mzmolly]

86. He thanks DU in his article.

Thanks to members of the Democratic Underground for sending me news items, leads, contacts, and other relevant information.

:hi:

Thank you Wayne!

[Syd_]

110. Congratulations

Now that Madsen has thanked DU, Du now shares his credibility or lack thereof.

[IAMREALITY]

111. Hmmm. Credibility

Exactly the word on my mind right now...

[AntiFascist]

116. In addition to being a journalist and writer, Madsen is also....

a Senior Fellow at EPIC, the Electronic Privacy Information Center.

http://iml.dartmouth.edu/ists/madsen.html

[IAMREALITY]

117. Oh I trust Madsen, He wasn't the one I was referencing the hint to.

[mzmolly]

112. Well if were comparing his credibility to Bush's I'll take Madsen any day.

Cheers. Enjoy us while you can.

:hi:

[Syd_]

114. Bush's credibility is absolute

absolutely the opposite of what he says. We can count on that.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

115. A banker's analysis of the check/money flow...

When a bank issues a cashiers check, the purchaser receives the real check with a stub or copy. The bank retains a copy -- Laurentian Bank of Canada, the payor.

The real check is eventually given to a recipient. In his post he says that the check is made payable to Five Star. So Five Star is the recipient.

Then he states that on 10/6, before the check was issued,on 10/22, Equity Financial Trust transfered $29.6mm to Five Star for the scam.

So, now you have Five Star with $29.6 X 2 (if they had actually cashed the check)

He also mentions that Equity Financial Trust was deemed not a real bank. This doesn't seem to have anything to do with the story about the check, since Laurenthian was the payor. (Sorry if I missed reading any info on them that would make me think they were not a viable bank) My only guess would be that it was the transfer on 10/6 that he refers to, that was stopped or caught or reversed.

A bank check, drawn on a viable bank, can not be returned as unpaid. That is why it is trusted. The only way a bank check can be reissued is if the original was lost or stolen. Also, Madsden didn't mention anything about the check having any stampings on it like "unpaid" or "returned", etc.

So bottom line, if Five Star was simply a pass-through in the chain, I could see them getting the money once and turning around and passing it on. But not twice.

Of course, as others have mentioned, at what point did Madsen get a copy - is it a real copy or is it a copy of the real check? Also, for him to get a copy of the check he would have to have gotten from either the 1) purchaser (UNKNOWN) or the 2)recipient (FIVE STAR), or the 3) Laurenthian Bank, or 4) One of the Techies who was sent a copy of the check as proof of future payment??

My first thought after reading all this is 1) Madsden doesn't understand banking and 2) he's only giving us pieces of info (sorry "duh")

But my biggest question is WHAT THE HELL DO YOU NEED $29 MILLION FOR if they were taking $14 bucks and hour

[harmonyguy]

124. Wouldn't the bank transit numbers be easy to check?

If I'm not mistaken, didn't the original article about the check give the bank branch-transit numbers?
Shouldn't those numbers, or at least some of the initial digits, match the transit number of the Laurentian Bank? (039?).
Should be able to be checked through the Canadian Payments Association or the American Banker's Association, although I think the ABA has a different name for it.
What if the numbers don't match?
Or do these kind of bank documents use some other numbering system?

[kc.ink]

127. what if the check was a second payment?

could it also be that the EFT was the only payment and the check is a decoy? (dan rather)

The 29M was for the stuffed shirts supervising the low-life techies doing the actual work. . . . because we all know that ADMINISTRATION gets a bigger slice of the pie.

Just a thought.

[senegal1]

130. kick

[jamboi]

142. "check is a decoy" hmmm... think you're onto something there. n/t

[jamboi]

131. .

[jamboi]

134. .

[gl2]

137. Certain implications of Wayne's report

The intel implications of Wayne's latest article (in a Mexican $11 billion counterfeit scam, General Robert L. Ferrera sent sent $ to Five Star Investments, Ltd. Another man indicted in a $3 million fraud in Washington state, Grady Hand, was defended by Dennis Hayle, head of DEA's CENTAC narco unit). In the Washington case, Hand and Hayle said the $3 million was sent General Robert L. Ferrera as part an off-the books CIA operation---to hide it from Congress. Given the info. about General Robert L. Ferrera, plus the DEA and narco connection, we should be looking for narco $ links. Once you see the CIA and narco $ links in this, it begins to look WORSE THAN Watergate! We should all go out and do research, then post it here.

The Five Star stash of Marcos secret criminal cash hoard (seen on http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=4566 ) and the Cook Island routing of Iran Contra $ also look suspicious. Ollie North is reported to have been a crook. Ret. Lt. Commander Al Martin, who actually participated in Iran Contra, then later exposed his knowledge, writes:

"Ollie (North) was complaining that Armitage and Clair George had ramped up cocaine imports in the United States at the prices, which had been cut in half from 1985 to `86, from $30,000/ kilogram in `85 to $15,000/kilogram in `86.

"Ollie’s idea was that he used to call it “Reaganomics of Cocaine.” In other words, you keep moving the price down and eventually what you’re doing is building more revenue in the future by driving down the price now because you’re going to have more demand at a lower price level.

"What Ollie said was absolutely true. He said, “Our cost equation is such that net delivered, that we are trading for every one kilogram of refined 90-proof--he used to call it proof. I like the way he used to say it. He used to call it proof. Ollie would say, for every one-kilogram of 90-proof coke, we are trading one factory-fresh M16 rifle with a full field kit and a thousand rounds of ammunition that cost us $650. And he said, even when delivering costs are put in, our net deliverable cost to put that kilogram of cocaine in a port city in the United States is still only a thousand dollars a kilogram. So $15,000 was still a lot of money. And he figured what it was doing was Reaganomics. He used to use the term all the time, as the Reaganomics of the cocaine business. You drag down the prices and you create ever more demand by dragging down the prices. Of course, what Ollie didn’t figure on is that prices would continue to plummet as much as they did. In the spring of 1986, cocaine was $15,000/ kilo on the street that was at primary-dealer level. By the beginning of 1987, cocaine had fallen to $7500/ kilogram, after Iran-Contra was over, because the CIA had absolutely flooded the market with this stuff.

Read Daniel Hopsicker's new book, Welcome to Terror Land, the definitive book on CIA corruption, lies, and narco $ wrapped up in the Venice FL school where Atta and cohorts studied. Hopsicker points to narco trafficking and is corroborated by FBI translator Sibel Edmonds.

*Looking back, please remember: Before the election of '64, JFK was hit--according to Col. Fletcher Prouty, by Gen. Ed Lansdale (the Du Pont-Dulles protege--see Prouty's website for photos and story).The hit threw the election to pro-war LBJ as a sympathy vote, BUT in '68 M.L. King was hit in another of the same Army 111th, Army 113th schemes (see the famous court win re the case). This caused rioting, which made Democratic sectors look bad and helped move the South into a Republican posture (ironic, given the origins of the R party). Nixon won. Then in '72 it was Watergate---"the Bay of Pigs thing... As Nixon said, the Warren Report "was the greatest hoax ever perpetrated." (Nixon's own words, uncovered in '03). Then in '80 it was the October Surprise, then in 88, Gennifer Flowers, which led to Monica Lewinsky, a carefully orchestrated partisan dig. Republicans won in '00. Then 9-11 occurs, albeit not yet proven a direct Republican scheme, yet the narco $ and CIA fingerprints, plus FBI silencing of witnesses to Mohammed Atta/Marwan al Shehhi doings in Venice FL (see Hopsicker's book, sic), which redounds to Bush gains. Now, it's an e-vote scam unfolding. Mob $, assassinations, coups and stolen elections---it's all consistent with the animal logic of corporate greed, the power and control of the Republican party (an awkward gaggle of noveau riche and old industry $ (Du Pont, Rockefeller, Smith), lightly sprinkled with new $ washouts like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet. Maybe they're not literally evil, but they enjoy power and control, especially when it comes through manipulative prestige doings among their $$ peers. Add a little foreign danger and, voila! they feel like they're fortifying the nation.

Too bad it's killing the planet and making soft enemies of all who challenge US$ coups and domination... When the thinking behind it all is modeled on the animal logic of Darwinian elitism, we're all in deep trouble. Animal logic? The same channels that route CIA narco $ into US accounts also feed a growingly secret and exotic black budget establishment, the new medieval fiefdom of domination here in the US and all across the world.

[m berst]

139. nice to see

Nice to see so many new members so passionately interested in this issue. Looks like we have tied in just about everything and everybody in the country at this point. ;)

By all means, pursue all leads. The success of anything that is done will depend to some degree upon the credibility and solidarity of the community. With that in mind, I would caution people from throwing around innuendo as to the intentions of members who express healthy skepticism about any aspects of the research.

And, just a reminder for those who are serious and sincere about this, you will definitely want to plug into the existing community of people who have been working on these issues, if only for the sake of nit duplicating efforts and for coordination and verification purposes.

There is a trustworthy, coordinated, ongoing effort to look into all of the issues surrounding the election.

VOTE FRAUD Links - a DU Compendium
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=1984#

VOTE FRAUD Links Compendium - Thread #2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x3223

VOTE FRAUD LINKS - A DU Compendium - Thread #3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x4927

VOTE FRAUD LINKS - A DU Compendium - Thread #4
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=201&topic_id=6166&mesg_id=6166

[peacetalksforall]

141. I'm open to his theory...with just a few troubling thoughts....

why would money launderers not launder business names?

Would they really think they are protected by operating off-shore?

Why would disgruntled contractors take things into their own hands so early in the game after not being paid? Very drastic action - no patience? Surely, they weren't left stranded at the airport without money on their way home and found their compatriots were also stranded when they talked to each other on their fancy phone/remote controllers?

The Maryland 'training center' ties in neatly to the geography of it all. That's a credible tie-in if the whole thing ends up being credible.

What really makes me wonder is the rovian aspect. It would make sense that rethugs would set up all kinds of diversions that they can mock and ridicule for years when anyone brings up the theft of another election (if they get away with this one). A variety and excess of diversions can confuse people who only get snippets of propaganda. It washes everything to an equivalent of a whiteout. But, this story, if it is a diversion, would be really risky because of the history of rethug connections(that no one seems to be refuting). There are way too many pointers to history that is not quite dead. I love the son of Baker and all the Houston, Mexico, and border links.

We are getting taken to the cleaners. What a sham we live.

Ever feel like a potato growing serf?

[progressoid]

148. Umm, interesting but still

not really anything there.

Lots if maybe, could-be, and what-ifs. And again a lot riding on unnamed "informed sources". So far he has a copy of a check. That doesn't mean much unless, in the memo area of the check it says, "for 2004 election rigging".

He's going to have to find some hard connections rather than quoting historical associations and purported duplicities .

One other thought...if this is a bona fide story and Madsen has found a weak link, he's shown his hand to his foe. While he is slowly spilling the beans, anyone connected probably spent the last week covering their asses and putting out disinformation.

We need the smoking gun not just smoke.

just my $0.02