"Food For Fraud Thought" on Machine Fraud (RE Madsen theory)

[Shalom]

Clearly, there are differences and similarites between gaming machines (such as slots) and different types of voting "machines".

We must be careful to distinguish between actual voting machines, and those computer systems used for tabulation. The actual voting machines are not hooked up to modems, while the tabulation systems are. Since the manipulation of tabulation computers has been discussed in some depth, this message focuses on stand alone systems. A scenario for fixing stand alone machines is discussed below, with the conclusion that it is unlikely. As such, this method of hacking is considered highly unlikely. It is offered as "food for fraud thought" for others, as it might stimulate some thinking along other lines.

The manipulation of stand-alone gaming machines is proven ; a good example is the murder of Larry Volk (killer confessed after Christian conversion) cited below. In this case, the "cheating code" must be preloaded with, and hidden within, the "honest code". The possibilities here are endless: a simple example is to add a vote for Bush for every 20 votes for Kerry. This is very crude, easy to detect, and not very flexible.

A more elegant way to hack stand-alone machines is to embed some code that is only invoked by a special entry sequence, somewhat like a combination lock. For example, if and only if the "voter" clicked on the Bush icon and then hit reset 3 times, and then clicked on the Kerry icon and hit reset 5 times, the computer would react as if Bush received 256 votes.

Without access to actual code in the machine, it is impossible to detect if such hidden "features" are in the machine. On the other hand, if this scam were perpetrated, there are hundreds if not thousands of machines sitting around now with the stealth code still embedded in them. It would require a fair number of agents who would have to be trained to rig the votes, and any one of them could blow the whistle on the whole operation. machines. It would likely result in a large disparity within a precinct from one machine to the other. As mentioned above, this particular scenario is not very plausible.

An alternate way to fix the machines is to have a "combination lock" that allows both the addition of votes as described above, as well as a way to accept votes after the polls have closed (are entries time-stamped ?) Then one could have enough lockdowns at polling places to allow a few poll workers to add votes to the machines, and then print and sign new tapes. This may be what Bev Harris witnessed in process.


Does anyone out there have other ideas ???

A Blogger looks at the relationship between gaming & voting machines July 1, 2004

http://www.rojisan.com/blog/2004/07/american_coin_vs_diebold.html

american coin vs diebold
(excerpt)
Back in december, i left myself a note to do some homework and make this comparison... with the election now just five months away, i guess it's time to get this on the record. this won't be as fully-developed as i might've hoped, but that's what comments and links are about. the comparison between slot machines and voting machines has been made before, but i wanted to tie the two companies together in a sort of risk-assesment way.

In 1990, larry volk was killed shortly before he was to give testimony on how he programmed video gaming (as in gambling) machines for american coin - programmed them to cheat. nearly a decade later, the story got hot again with the confession of his killer. the story is great stuff for crime drama and mafia stories, and that's been covered well already, but that's not what interests me.

[Shalom]

1. Self Kick...Falling off the Page....Does this make any sense ?

[Viktor Runeberg]

5. Makes sense

Makes sense as one of many ways these machines are vulnerable. So not finding this sort of code wouldn't mean they hadn't hacked the machines, while finding it would at least prove they the machines had been set up for this sort of hacking - although it wouldn't prove it was more than a rogue programmer, and everyone involved will claim security was so high that these means couldn't have been actually used.

Although the notion of setting it up so a single voter could tap out some sequence while voting, and that would trigger this - clever, but still probably better to hack the tablulaors. Then again, you could have the tabulators sitting with code that would itself only be triggered if a voter had cast a ballot in some incredibly-improbable way....

[jamboi]

17. Interesting! n/t

[Helga Scow Stern]

2. Post on the new Masden research thread in Voting Issues Forum. n/t

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=6212#6240

[Shalom]

4. Thanks! n/t

[sabra]

3. Franklin County Ohio

That county used Danaher Voting machines using the Guardian Management System (Windows 98/NT App) as the central source of the votes. This is the county that had the 4k extra Bush votes issue, where they still haven't given a reason to why it happened, as they weren't able to recreate it. I truly believe the vulnerability is with the central management system. And the 4k issue essentially reaffirms that. I don't know if the code it's self had "evil code", or just had various holes to allow people to manipulate the counting.

IMOP.

[OKthatsIT]

6. Hi....my husband is one of MS''s top Security Consultants

he has been looking at the different systems and code - ES&S, DRE.

I am suggesting he come on board now....if DU will allow him access to this thread, this would be the right time for his involvement.

Let's see if we can get him in here...

[Shalom]

7. Did You See Post From Ojai Person in this Thread ?

Ojai Person (447 posts) Wed Dec-01-04 04:56 PM
Response to Original message

2. Post on the new Masden research thread in Voting Issues Forum. n/t

Edited on Wed Dec-01-04 05:03 PM by Ojai Person
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

[mzmolly]

10. Good deal!

:hi: Welcome to you and your dh.

[sabra]

11. Welcome, and a great idea!

You might want to start your own thread, for further exposure. As I imagine alot of people might want to talk to your husband...

[newyawker99]

12. OKthatsIT!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[crispini]

8. Correction..

"The actual voting machines are not hooked up to modems, while the tabulation systems are."

Some of them are. Some of the Diebold voting systems would modem in to the central tab to deliver their results. This was part of what Bev was getting so steamed about back before the election.

[Shalom]

9. Thanks for correction, I was'nt very sure on this point n/t

[texpatriot2004]

13. kick

[NVMojo]

14. kick!

[Shalom]

15. Example of a "Combination Lock" Fix Using Sweet Screen Spots

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=100208&mesg_id=100208

I have recreated that prototype and posted it at http://www.justaflyonthewall.com/votefraudprogram.htm

It is essentially the same code that I built for the vote fraud demo for Congressman Feeney. You will notice that by clicking on the correct hidden spots on the screen, the vote will flip so that the Republican candidate will receive fifty one percent of the vote. The hot spots make it possible to flip the vote as often as necessary yet it will never fire accidentally so as to avoid detection. My prototype was actually very simplistic. The actual sequence to flip the vote could be as complex as the programmer wished or even to operate automatically. In cases when the Republican is already leading, the vote is left as is. I built the program to demonstrate that with proper supervision that the election machines would be safe. The code would not be able to be hidden.

The next day I complete the prototype and presented it to Mrs. Wong. I stressed how the tampering could be detected. She quickly set me straight as the to true intention. Her exact words were "If we can’t hide the manipulation, we won’t get the contract the program is needed to control the south Florida vote." Another confirmation of why I needed to get a different job. I would not build something that would defraud every voter in this country. Even better, I knew that as long as the election supervisors used proper computer procedures, no one else would or could either.

What I did not anticipate was that this country would allow the placement of voting machines where the source code was not provided. The programs were pre-compiled (you have no idea what is in them or what hidden triggers exist), and where no paper trail would be required to check their accuracy. Any moron could build a voting program that could flip the vote under those circumstances and no amount of testing could discover the deception.

[mulethree]

16. The combinationlock requires a lot of people?

Can't have one machine way out of whack with the others in the precinct.

So a lot of people need to 'vote' at many different machines to spread the fraud around? Or you expect one pollworker to combination most/all machines at his/her precinct?

I would think you could devise some 'actual use' pattern to trigger code like you would with a combination. Detect delays between votes, or say more undervotes on races or such that wouldn't happen during tests.

Even better would be a way that doesn't require actual candidate names in the code. For instance prefer the first name on the ballot.

[Shalom]

18. Not Mutually Exclusive....

I agree with the drawbacks you cited, but it was interesting that someone has written up an actual such "fix".

Just think about it, though - you could actually have more than one hack in the machine at the same time....the possibilites are endless.. - amazing how the criminal mind can operate !!