To know the Neocons and the Religious Right, know their God...

[Clevenger]

To understand the political mindset of right-wing Christians, examine the nature of their ideal, the God of the Bible, as put forth by them. It's easy to see how they have cast themselves, and their leaders, in their image of this God. I have come to these conclusions after many, many hours of discussions with people who call themselves Born-Again Christians. A few points:

God is blameless. He is the all-powerful all-knowing creator of the universe, yet he is somehow blameless for evil. God knew every evil thing men would do, even before he created them, yet he is not responsible for what they do in any way. Some say that God isn't responsible because men have "free will", but how can that be when everything they will ever do has already been prefigured in the eternal mind of God?

God is an outlaw. He is not bound by the same moral laws he has imposed upon mankind. He can kill (or allow death) with impunity and ignore suffering, without consequences.

It's OK for God to abuse his children. God has the knowledge and power to spare his children from suffering, yet chooses to not do so. If we had full knowledge that our child would die if certain steps weren't taken, and willfully failed to take those steps, we would rightfully be found guilty of child negelect, perhaps even manslaughter.

In complete control, yet somehow not responsible. Above the laws they impose upon others. Exempt from reproach for even the most egregious neglect. Does this not sum up the mindset of the Neocons and their Religious Right base?

[burythehatchet]

1. when speaking of their god

it would be appropriate to use a lower case g.

[Goblinmonger]

13. Their god is the same god of abraham

that all other Christian sects use. They just pick and choose different passages than the liberal Christians. They think they are right; liberals think they are wrong. Nobody can really prove it either way.

I think liberal Christianity needs to come to grips with that before anything can be accomplished. All of this "they aren't really christian" "they don't believe in the same god" stuff doesn't get anyone anywhere because they are christian and they do believe in the same god.

[personman]

2. I call him "Sky-Hitler"...nt

[nealmhughes]

3. They love the idea of a "blood-thirsty desert storm god" revealed in

Genesis, Exodus, Lev., Deut, and Judges more than they do the more "advanced", i.e., Persian view of later times.
Slaying Amalkites, stoning "sodomites", smiting Gomorrah, etc. is their idea of a wrathful god, not a transcendent omnipotent Creator, rather a mad daddy.

The slaying God doesn't even appear to be the same entity of the later books.

[Goblinmonger]

14. You mean like the god

that sends his son/himself down to earth to be brutally murdered for the sins of mankind and then condemns mankind to an eternity in hell if you don't believe in the divinity of the son/himself? Yeah, that guy is a guy I want to party with.

[earthlover]

4. god in our image?

Well, that might be THEIR conception of God, but it is fortunately not the only one.

Yes, there is evil in the world. It is my view that God wanted us to have free will, but there was no way to give us free will without us having the ability to choose evil. Apparently God could have created pliant totally obedient robots, and then there would be no evil, but he saw the positives of freedom worth the negatives.

So God could be a loving just god even in the face of evil in his creation. God could also have given us help along away by sending prophets and Jesus to help point us in the right direction towards love, justice, humility, nonjudgementalism, peace, kindness,meekness, helping the poor and having compassion for our fellow humans, not to mention all of God's creation, the destruction of which could be viewed as blasphemy.

So it is quite possible for religion to bring out the best in us, to challenge us to be loving and peaceful contributors to society.

It seems, however, that the radical right has created their god in their own image, a judgemental god, who judges who THEY want Him to judge, allowing them to live their lives without following the dictates of Jesus to be nonjudgemental and to love others as themselves, even love their enemies.

It's not God that is the problem. God doesn't kill or hate--people do.

[Clevenger]

5. "God wanted us to have free will..." How can God have wants?

To say that God "wanted" something, that he evidently felt lacking in some way, says that God is somehow incomplete. How can God be God and still have wants? This is long been a point of contention in my discussions with Christians.

[earthlover]

7. huh?

To say that perhaps God wanted us to have free will does not in any way show that God is lacking. I think we all want Bush to stop the War in Iraq. This is not a testament to what we are lacking as people, it is what we would want Bush to do. If we are parents, we would want our children to grow up happy, to lead good lives, etc etc....does that mean a parent who wants his children to do well is somehow lacking as a parent? Of course not, any more than God is lacking for wanting us to be free.

Not every free choice involves evil. However, evil exists because of choices people make.

All I am saying is that it is our responsibility to do right, and it is not God's. When we do wrong, it is not God's fault, it is our bad. God gave us the choice to do good or bad. Perhaps this is the only way he/she could create us without us being totally controlled.

No, god is not lacking. He has the strength to create us with humanity instead of being robots.

[Clevenger]

9. You're putting the argument in human terms, but God isn't human...

Yes, we humans "want" this and that, but that's because we're limited beings with desires and needs. Your God must surely be above having desires or needs, isn't he? If he NOT above having desires and needs - if God really does "want" this and that - should people worship him?

Personally, I can't bring myself to worship a God who is less moral than I am. You see, if I had God's alleged power, love, and wisdom, I would have already told Bush to stop the Iraq War. God evidently hasn't felt the need to do that.

BTW, Do you think God can be surprised?

[earthlover]

11. then don't worship a god that is less moral than you...

...but if you think you are better than god, that is one step further down the path than those who think they are god!

Who says god is not moral? It was not God who decided that Bush was gonna do the Iraq War. Don't let Bush off that easy, it was Bush, not God!

Yes, the issue of an omnipotent god--could this god be good if he allowed evil in the world, why couldn't god create a perfect world? Well, this is a question that just about anyone ponders. Perhaps the answer is that a perfect world cannot exist if you include the idea of freedom in it. Yes, an omnipotent god could have created a world where nobody did wrong, and everyone was totally controlled by god, ie, they were not free, and everything was preordained, predestined. But that is NOT the world we live in, it is NOT the world God created. And who would want to live in a world such as this anyway? What's the use would be the operative attitude. There are positives with freedom as well as negatives. So we have to use our freedom to choose to do things that will help make the world a better place, and use our freedom just as strongly if not more strongly than the evil ones, like Bush, who make the other choice. No, I don't think god has preordained everything, so therefor we, not god, are responsible.

[Clevenger]

16. Can God be surprised?...

If he can be surprised, then he's not in control; if he can't be surprised, how can we have "free will"?

[Evoman]

6. Something about this line of reasoning bothers me.

I do not understand how anybody can claim that there had to be evil in order for us to have free will. Why can't we have the free will to choose between two good choices?

For example: you could argue that god gave men the ability to rape women so that we could have the choice to rape or not to rape. We don't want to be automotons, right? But it would have been just as easy for a creator to require humans to have some sort of mating dance, in which the man was physcially incapable of sustaining an erection if the female did not choose him. He is not an automoton...he gets to choose (or excercise his "free will") which woman he wants to give his attention too. But get this...so does the woman.

It really suprises me when people justify abuses with this, "God doesn't want automotons". No, evil is not around because god does not want automotons. Evil is around because god likes excitement, and get his jones off by watching us kill, rape, and murder each other. Or...lets see..another possibility is that god doesn't exist and the "evil" is a result of our human minds taking note of things we don't like and that adversely affect our survival.

Just be glad that he didn't give us Rocket Launcher arms.

[MistressOverdone]

10. Personally

I think it would have been a great idea if human women had bottoms that turned bright orange and swelled up when we were in the mood, and that it was impossible to mate with a woman who wasn't.

Then we'd all get extra days off work.

But being women, we'd worry and compare our orange bottoms with each other and we wouldn't be happy with our own. Too big or too little, too orange or not orange enough.

[Evoman]

12. Better comparing orange bottoms than being brutally raped.

No?

[MistressOverdone]

15. Indeed

I think my plan is much better than the original.

[J Williams]

17. I agree, and here's another truth....

Earthlover, I totally agree. And let me show you a quote that is appropriate to the discussion.

Quote:

“There is no creature which is not destined for the supreme goal, as there is no river which is not winding its way toward the sea. But only in the human form can consciousness be so developed that it is capable of expressing the True Self, which is the Self of All.” – Meher Baba

Literalist Christian fundamentalists simply do not understand that, because they are interested in organized religion and control. They want to believe in a god made in their own image. They do not understand that Jesus was not talking about a physical characteristic when he spoke of the “face” of God being seen through him. Jesus was talking about the spiritual reality that God is Light, because God’s “face” is not the face of a man. God is not made in our image. We are made in God’s image, and the “Godhead” is the eternal, infinite, omnipresent Light-Energy-Source-Consciousness of Divinity. It is written throughout the Bible, that “God lives in light,” that “God is Light,” and that those who have really witnessed God are “children of Light.” (Exodus 24:10, Psalm 104:2, I Timothy 6:16, Isaiah 2:5, Isaiah 9:2, Isaiah 60:19, I John 1:5, etc.)

Most people simply don’t realize that spiritually we are all one with God, one with all humanity, and one in the Spirit, as Children of Light. Our spiritual existence is not dependent on the physical body. What we are is far beyond the physical. We are all spiritual children of God, and God is the omnipresent, internal, infinite and ethereal Divine Light that is far greater and brighter than the sun. God is primordial “Word,” which was in the beginning and is made flesh in all of us. It lies dormant within us until we are spiritually awakened and reborn, and thus it is fully expressed in a Christ, an Avatar, a Buddha, and all others who realize they are one with the Supreme Consciousness which is God. But there are many degrees of enlightenment. Many glimpse God, but very few fully realize God. Many are called, but few are chosen. That is why God’s “face” could be seen through the Christ Jesus who was actually enlightened and fully realized his oneness with God. He had a “halo” or aura of Light. He was not God “Himself,” but he was enlightened by God.

That truth was confirmed by Jesus when he said, “The Father himself, which has sent me, has borne witness of me. You have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.” (John 5:37) Jesus said that because there is no particular form to the Divine Light of God. It is formless and yet it is manifested in all form. That is the reason Jesus did not contradict himself when he said two apparently contradictory statements — “through me you see the face of the father,” and “you have not seen God’s shape at any time.” Both statements are true, but many Christians simply do not realize what Jesus meant. They focus on the first statement and take it literally, but they ignore the other. They want to believe that God took form in one specific man, and they don’t realize that their error causes them to in fact indulge in idol worship.

Quoted from Memoirs of a Prodigal Son of Man, by Joseph J. Adamson

http://realprophecyunveiled.netfirms.com

[J Williams]

8. The Best Idea of God

There are an awful lot of ideas of God, but precious few are correct.

Here is an author who's view is indeed correct, and he totally turns the tables on the religious right, including zealous right-wing Christians, Jews and Muslims.

http://realprophecyunveiled.netfirms.com