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seaj11 Donating Member (506 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 10:27 PM
Original message
Buddhists and yoga practitioners...check in
I am a starting Buddhist who has not yet picked a tradition. I consider my spirituality to be sort of a mix of Buddhism and Paganism. My practice involves meditation, mostly.
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NewHampshireDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not sure that you have to pick a tradition ...
Remember ... Buddhism is not about belief, but the practice of lovingkindness.

Good luck.
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seaj11 Donating Member (506 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. True.
But picking a tradition might help me to aim my practice in the way that would best benefit me. Of course, I probably won't find one that fits me to a tee.
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NewHampshireDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. You might look for a sanga or study group to help ...
As with many things, the people you travel with can often be more important than the road you're travelling. :)
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seaj11 Donating Member (506 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Also true!
Which is why I'm happy about this new forum. I also go to this website.
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NewHampshireDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. This is my fav ...
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seaj11 Donating Member (506 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Thanks!
This site has some excellent resources.
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-13-04 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Someone call?
:-)
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CHICKEN CAPITOL USA Donating Member (174 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
2. cool, evolving toward awareness is our purpose on earth !
and I think that one doesn't necessarily need a religion to do it.
Great to see some true "progressives" out here in DU land!
Meditation opens up so much.
and yoga is a meditation too.
I think everyone should try it for a while.
(I've done both for 9 years or so, off and on)
There isn't anyone who would do it and not agree that they've never felt better.
A gym workout is not the same thing.
Flexibility of the body lends to flexibilty of the mind.
Buddhism is cool,
Hinuism is cool,
Awareness is cool!
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burythehatchet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 10:44 PM
Response to Original message
4. Namaste y'all
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John Dark Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-14-04 03:27 AM
Response to Original message
10. Yoga here
Tantric Shakti yoga is the living fount of the sacred for me. Did you know that Hatha yoga is one branch of Tantrism? Like other aspects of Tantrism, Hatha yoga involves developing mastery over mental and physical realities.

Years ago, I practiced a Tantric form of Tibetan Buddhism called Vajrayana, thanks to the Nyingmapa. I was fascinated by the many parallels found between Vajrayana and the Golden Dawn's Kabbalistic Magick which I practiced concurrently with it. I also read how the Dalai Lama hit it off with American Indians when they compared notes and found many parallels their ways shared in common.
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seaj11 Donating Member (506 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. have you also explored/practiced Wicca/Paganism?
I noticed that you use a pentacle as your avatar. Also, Wiccan magick is thought to have incorporated elements of Kabbalah.
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John Dark Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. Yes
Yes, I chose the pentacle because I feel drawn to the Wiccans and other pagans for several reasons. For one thing, my heart is comforted by thoughts of the Goddess when the masculinist religions are wreaking hatred and violence until I can't stand it any longer. The Goddess brings peace, healing, and sanity as a welcome alternative.

In Buddhism I was already familiar with this benefit from the Goddess, thanks to Tara. I have always felt a very great affection for Green Tara.* I had a thangka of her on my wall when I lived in Colorado, which I found at the Nyingma Institute in Boulder. Whenever I felt troubled, her mantra brought peace and healing.

om tare tuttare ture svaha.

I found a used music CD from Taiwan titled Mantra of Joy at a library sale. It consisted of the Tara mantra set to several different tracks of Taiwanese pop music. Some of which included Tibetan-monk-style chanting set to a hip-hop beat. The cover picture showed the words of the Mantra engraved in Tibetan script, but when the syllables were phonetically written in Chinese characters and then romanized, they came out quite different:
on da lieh du da lieh du lieh so ha.
Anyway, when the Taiwanese vocalists sang and chanted the mantra Chinese style, the pronunciation difference didn't matter because the spirit of the mantra came through.

*What was the difference between Green Tara and White Tara again? Somebody help me out here.
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vajraroshana Donating Member (762 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. I just noticed your post
and I've been learning from the other way around. That is, I've been practicing in Nyingma for quite a while and was never all that interested in Western Magick. But I've come across a little bit of the literature of Western Magick and have also seen the parallels. Most Vajrayana Buddhists won't discuss the occult or magickal aspects, nevertheless it's thoroughly magick. I've read a little bit on the web that has suggested to me that the Vajrayana practices have a lot in common with something called "chaos magick"; but I don't know much about it yet.

I haven't read very much on the Golden Dawn, but have seen some parallels there as well and don't know which sources to read that are most authoritative; I suspect that, like in Vajrayana, you don't just come across the "real" stuff so easily.

It's all very interesting, isn't it?

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seaj11 Donating Member (506 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Yes.
A Wiccan once told me that Wicca is by nature a religion of research and learning. I take that approach to my spirituality. I'm constantly exploring both Wicca and Buddhism.
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John Dark Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. It's all truly very interesting
I'm grateful for the chance to exchange these ideas with you here. The person who got me started in Golden Dawn Kabbalistic Magick had also studied Nyingma Vajrayana under Tarthang Tulku. He had our group practicing intricate magick visualizations with sound vibrations that were borrowed from the Golden Dawn's use of Egyptian deities like Isis and Osiris. He adapted the Vajrayana techniques to this purpose. We would visualize everything within a dark egg-shaped space. (The dark egg being a traditional Tantric symbol of akasha -- 'space'.)

"Surrounding you is so much empty space. Within you, the atoms that make you up are just bits of energy within a lot of empty space too.
Pay attention to the emptiness outside you.
Pay attention to the emptiness inside you.
Now pay attention to both emptinesses at once.
Notice how when it's all emptiness, boundaries disappear."

In this way the meditation very effectively annihilated one's sense of separate existence and cleared the space for anything one chose to manifest. It was an admirable application of the Buddhist doctrine of sunyata for magickal working.

I like how you said the Vajrayana is all magick, even if they don't want to admit it. I think they would prefer you concentrate first on the Buddhist basics like the Dhammapada before going on to the advanced subjects. The Dalai Lama is the head of the Gelugpa order, which is oriented more toward conventional Buddhist teachings like compassion and the cessation of attachment/suffering. These are definitely worthy foci, and I'm glad Mr. Gyatso is doing such a great, saintly job. But there will always be people whose natural aptitude is for mastery over the elements of existence (to serve a worthy purpose, like helping other beings), and for such talents we have Tantra... Shamanism... Magick... the "Craft."

Fascinating to draw the parallel between Vajrayana and Chaos Magick. I would like to learn more about this. I had dropped Magick about 20 years ago when I converted to Islam, and have only recently begun to relearn it. At work I had the opportunity to read many files on Magick, Wicca, Thelema, Chaos Magick, Discordianism, UFOs, etc. that were seized from al-Qa`idah in Afghanistan. I'm not at liberty to tell how I was able to access these, but someday it will make for amazing memoirs. I hadn't gotten around to learning about Chaos Magick the first time around, but what I have practiced of Vajrayana Magick showed me the power the comes from voiding out a space. Maybe that's what was meant. One thing I gathered was that Discordianism drew upon Chaos Magick, but made it fun instead of serious.

The Vajrayana mandala, which I first encountered reading The Tibetan Book of the Dead, is really very much the same device as the circle of the elements in Magick and Wicca. Instead of angels, totems, or kachinas at the four elements, we find bodhisattvas. And their female consorts with whom they are joined in Tantric yab-yum sexual congress. Including the explicitly feminine wisdom along with each bodhisattva rates highly in my appreciation. The female emanation of Avalokiteshvara is Tara,* beautiful loving goddess of compassion. She will always be very welcome in my heart.

The meanings and powers of the bodhisattvas of the 4 directions plus the fifth one in the center are all held in the great mantra
om ah hum vajra guru padma siddhi hum.
To have this vibration within you is to carry around your magick temple or circle wherever you go, and having it activated to draw upon the insight, wisdom, and help it contains. Practicing it can bring you to where the vajra, the guru, the lotus, the power, and the wisdom are all present within you. No wonder I loved Buddhism so much after studying Magick. Living in Colorado with the mountain energy while studying Tibet added to the experience. I remember one sunset meditation on Amitabha in the mountains that was just ineffably blissful.

*Sometimes I read about Green Tara as the emanation of Avalokiteshvara, bodhisattva of the dhyani buddha of the west, Amitabha. Sometimes I read about her as the consort of the bodhisattva of the north, Vishvapani/Amoghasiddhi. My memory has faded since I studied these topics many years ago, someone please help me out here.
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AgadorSparticus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 01:24 AM
Response to Original message
11. i'm Buddhist. i hear HHDL will be in tucson next year. woo hoo!
i'm going to call tommorrow to make reservations.
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vajraroshana Donating Member (762 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
13. Buddhist for about 18 years
or thereabouts. Mostly practice in the Nyingma tradition, but try to study all the traditions.
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ZenLefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
14. What if I don't practice Yoga?
:shrug:
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vajraroshana Donating Member (762 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. buddhist practice connotes yoga
Yoga doesn't always mean the physical yoga; that is more properly called "hatha yoga". "Yoga" is also the mental, contemplative disciplines of meditation that is the hallmark of Buddhism. Even within the hagiographies of Buddha, there's the recurrent theme of him learning contemplative practices from many teachers from various strands of ascetic/thaumaturgic/contemplative practices, before finding "enlightenment". Those practices were "yoga" and can still rightly be called "yoga", though they're not necessarily the physical practice we now call "yoga".

So, if you practice zen, as your moniker suggests, then you are also practicing "yoga".

Does that make any sense?
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ZenLefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Well, I do meditate
I never heard it called Yoga before but, actually, it makes sense. Thanks for the enlightenment. :think:
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. I could listen to you
forever.
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fiorello Donating Member (140 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-18-04 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
18. zen Buddist with an odd background
Raised a scientific atheist and still loyal... in college (30 yrs ago) I fell in with a Hindu "cult". The cult past, but meditation stayed.

For many years now I define myself (and off-and-on practice) as a zen Buddhist, largely through the writings of the Korean z.m. Seung Sahn. Because he defines DOUBT as a central part of the spir. path. And because the goal is not some big-daddy in the sky, but to see clearly. It fits perfectly with my ancestral scientific/atheism.

Plus- meditation is just my spiritual base.

But in times of great trouble/distress, I still do a yoga-meditation which is more focused on God, rather than clarity.

Political note: I want politicians who are comfortable with the religious mainstream! As a Democrat, this Buddhism is more like a "private vice". Yeah, politicians can be Buddhist - but only if their parents, and their parents' parents, and parents parents parents were Buddhist. Converting to something non-traditional is just too flakey for middle-Americans.
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2nd_class_citizen Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-20-04 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
20. I'm sort of a secular Buddhist...
I don't really give a lot of thought to religion on a daily basis, but Buddhism meshes most with my beliefs and there are aspects of it that just make me go "wow, that makes so much sense!".

So, hello all!:hi:
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. Hi 2nd_class_citizen!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
23. Here is a good BB and info
Edited on Wed Nov-24-04 11:09 PM by indigobusiness
http://www.e-sangha.com/

A tibetan buddhist center, in the redwoods above Santa Cruz Ca.
http://www.vajrapani.org/



I helped a friend build this bridge.
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independentpiney Donating Member (966 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Access to Insight-another good link
http://accesstoinsight.org/

A Theravadan site. They have a lot of the Pali canon in recent translations and many good articles. I particularly like those by Thanissaro Bikkhu.

Sacred-texts.com is really good for comparative religious studies-
http://www.sacred-texts.com/index.htm
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2nd_class_citizen Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Looks interesting
http://accesstoinsight.org /

Thanks for the link. This site looks very useful. I sometimes have a hard time finding Theravada sources.
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Zen Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-06-04 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
28. Currently reading "Paths to God" by Ram Dass and I recommend highly.
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