How many progressive Christians here follow traditional theology?

[DerekG]

Many of the progressive Christians I speak to echo the sentiments I find in Quaker and Unitarian literature: that is, Jesus was not so much the only Son of God; rather, he was the most enlightened of God's children. In a sense, their perception of Jesus is akin to Jefferson's: Jesus as the best of moral teachers, who offered to the world an ethos that would be tragically perverted by Paul. Our duty is to follow Jesus' cue and recognize, and embrace, our inner light.

I myself once subscribed to this, reckoning that Jesus was but a wisdom teacher, and that it would be best if we eschewed the dogma, ritual, and, dare I say, mythos.

Oddly enough, as my liberalism gave way to socialism (that is, I veered sharply to the left), I would discover that believing Jesus to be a "nice guy" was inadequate. It wasn't enough that Jesus was a healer, a social prophet, (the aforementioned) wisdom teacher. It wasn't enough that he was my brother; no, I needed (H)im to be my savior. Indeed, the only way the Christ narrative could survive for me was if its central figure actually *was* Christ ("the annointed one"). I turned to reverence; I turned to the notion I long resisted: that 2000 years ago, God incarnated, and served as the Paschal Lamb for the children He loved so dearly--whose sorrow so saddened Him--that He would endure all the agonies of the world and snatch victory from Death's arms. I needed this love story to be true, and I now find myself exhilarated, and, even as I remain an advocate for religious pluralism (there are many paths to the Divine), I have become ever more fastened to my faith.

I am aware that the word "virgin" is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word 'Alma (young woman/maiden); yet despite this, I believe in the Virgin Birth, and honor Mother Mary.

I am aware that the oldest of the gospels, Mark, wasn't even written until at least 40 years after the death of Jesus; yet despite this, I believe the gospels are the living witness to Jesus Christ.

I am aware that Jesus never even referred to Himself as Messiah in the narratives; yet despite this, I believe Jesus to be the Messiah.

I am aware that there is scant evidence to suggest that Jesus gave sight to the blind, healed the lame, turned water into wine, raised Lazarus from the dead, and transcended death himself; yet despite this, I believe Jesus was the human incarnation of God.


Chalk it up to a fool's faith, but faith is what it is.


Who here embraces "traditional" (for lack of a better word) theology?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

1. I'm not quite as traditional as you, but if Jesus was

God incarnate on Earth, then there is no logical problem with the Resurrection or any of the miracles. I find the position of "Jesus was divine, but the Resurrection is scientifically impossible" to be an inconsistent position.

If Jesus was just a really charismatic teacher, then we have to take the miracles etc. as later additions to the story.

[trotsky]

2. Do you believe in hell and do you think non-believers are going there?

Just curious.

[madrchsod]

4. there is no hell

there is no heaven. heaven is within and without you. it`s what ya do now that matters,death will take care of everything else.. i don`t know where i am going but i can tell others where i have been and what i`ve done and that`s how others will judge me.
how many angels can fit on the head of a pin was a great debate along time ago and it seems now the great debate is who is going and staying. they can debate all they want but i care about the here and now cause life is to dam short to worry about how many angels fit or who`s staying and who`s going...

[megatherium]

5. a good question.

Personally, I think the notion of a hell, either in its traditional fire-and-brimstone imagery, or a more modern notion of eternal separation from God, is unworthy of a loving God, even a God who demands justice.

There is such a thing as evil, however. Some time ago I read of men who kidnap or lure preteen girls from desperately poor Nepal, to sexual slavery in India; these girls typically are forced to serve as prostitutes until they are too ill to do so -- 80% of them die of AIDS. I cannot help but think there must be such a thing as perdition when I am confronted with this kind of evil. I believe that those guilty of such enormities will, as we all will, stand before God and will understand how terrible their sins are. Their regret will be complete and all-consuming. I don't however believe that this means they will suffer eternal separation from God, or the torments of a medieval imagination. I believe that the story of God's redemption of humankind is not yet complete, and will somehow include even those malefactors, even as it will somehow include myself.

[DerekG]

7. Yes and no, respectively

I assume when Christ spoke of damnation, He was harkening back to that which was posited by many within the Jewish faith; that is, Hell as separation from the Divine, a result of one's poisoned spirit. The ecstatically violent visions we find in the works of Milton, Dante, and even in the Book of Revelation--while majestic and imaginative--do not necessarily fit this construct.

As indicated in my OP, I believe there are many paths to the Divine. I have been fortunate enough to meet people of many different faiths, and even staunch atheists, who exude Christ's radiance, without actually being adherents. No, I believe the "damned" are those who reject the call to agape, nonviolence, and charity (the way of Christ).

Note: Please understand, I find the reward/punishment aspect to religion as diverting and pointless as the debate on all things apocalyptic.

On edit(s): Spelling corrections

[megatherium]

3. I consider myself to be a progressive and a traditional Christian.

The central teaching of Christianity is the resurrection. It is clear to me that the immediate followers of Jesus believed he appeared to them after his death, and that this transformed them from demoralized and frightened followers of a crucified teacher and healer, to courageous evangelists.

I don't exactly hold to the theology of Jesus's death as a substitutionary atonement for the sins of humanity, however; I think of it more in terms of God's affirmation that he is with us even though suffering and death, and that we will be with him in the next world.

I do (as an Episcopalian) believe in the Real Presence of Jesus in the sacraments, just as he promised us that if two or three are gathered together in his name in prayer, he would be there with them.

I try to be a follower of Jesus in my personal life, through celibacy (until I am married) and sobriety (well, I enjoy a pint of good beer with friends now and again). But mainly by trying to be a caring, responsible person to those around me. Naturally, I believe that my progressive stands on peace, justice, the environment, and tolerance are an expression of my faith (although I have been progressive even in those days I was more agnostic than Christian).

[supernova]

6. I never was much for traditional theology

I find thinking about alternative theologies to be more meaningful.

I left the church when I was a teen as a lot of people do. I returned in my mid-30s after my parents' deaths. Not unusual, either.

But upon my return, I began to chafe at the standard Church line. Mostly it was a sense of having heard it all before. We seemed to say the same things every year. Repeat the same bible verses with the same messages, if not the exact same sermons every year. I simply wasn't learning anything new.

I began to look and think deeper. What I wanted, was what I imagined in my walk with God. What must it have been like to be there? To expereince those events with him? To be part of the disciples, to be one of the throngs who heard him preach? That's when I went looking for the historical Jesus.

To a certain extent, we can't know. But we can get a feel for what it was like. And that's what I'm after. Substitute attonement has never turned me on either. I'm more energized by believing that we are all children of God.

[erichzann]

8. I do not.

I believe in a relational theology rather than a creedal one.

[Done]

9. Yes, but not evangelical.

I am a non-evangelical Christian; a member of a splitter group of the Primitive Baptist or Old School church, although I haven’t been to church in many years. We did not believe it is necessary for anyone to “accept” Jesus. It is my belief that there is one God. While the spirit (love) within us came from God, the Spirit within Jesus was not merely created by God, but God sent part of Himself into the body of Christ, and Christ was perfect in both thought and action and--from the Earth--only Christ deserves eternal life.

I believe that in the end, Christ will go back to God and again be One with God. Becoming One with God means that Christ will discard His fleshly body. Since Christ discards His fleshly body, it will be fair and reasonable for us to do the same thing. Our spirit and our flesh are judged separately, and thus our spirit, which is without sin, deserves eternal life. This redemption applies for all who possess the spirit (love) regardless of their belief or non-belief, and it requires no effort on our part. If everyone possesses the spirit then the Universalists are correct. I believe that most people are capable of unselfish love, meaning most people possess the spirit, though perhaps not everyone.

While the Bible seems to suggest different methods for getting to Heaven, I believe that there is a heaven and a hell in this world, and often this is what the Bible is referring to. While we might all end up going to the eternal Heaven, we will still be punished or rewarded in this life (or perhaps purgatory) for our actions. This is not to say that events in our lives are determined by our acts of sin or righteousness; I believe the heaven in this world is internal. I believe that Mother Teresa was one the most successful, one of the happiest--she had one of the most joy filled lives of all the people who have ever walked the Earth. This, I believe is the reward for righteousness (True righteousness, not the self-righteousness of the religious hypocrites).

Those who have the spirit (love) were given that spirit by God, and thus God “predestinated” all who would go to Heaven. This is why the Bible talks of predestination. Only those who are given a spirit of love in their hearts have something inside themselves which is perfect, and something which can be separated from their flesh and found worthy of eternal life. Our spirit and our flesh are both judged based on their “works”; this is why the Bible says that we are judged on our works. Yet we make it to Heaven by the “Grace” of Christ, by our spirit being separated from our flesh and judged as a separate being, and this is why the Bible says that Christ is only way to Heaven.

[Stunster]

10. I do

I believe in classical Catholic doctrine--Creation, Incarnation, Atonement, Trinity, grace, sacraments, the Mass, the papacy, Catholic morality---the whole kit and caboodle.

I'm a democratic socialist.