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Why Syzygy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jun-16-09 11:03 AM Original message |
Science and religion: a history of conflict? |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jun-16-09 11:50 AM Response to Original message |
1. Well, the creationist and the moderate believer do draw the same line. |
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damntexdem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jun-16-09 12:10 PM Response to Reply #1 |
2. Actually, it's science that draws the line: |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jun-16-09 12:40 PM Response to Reply #2 |
3. If a "supernatural" (whatever that means) thing can be observed, it is in the realm of science. |
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ironbark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 06:28 AM Response to Reply #3 |
10. I am endlessly fascinated |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 06:53 AM Response to Reply #10 |
11. Wow, you sure did miss the point. n/t |
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ironbark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 07:44 AM Response to Reply #11 |
12. Oh don’t be coy |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 07:48 AM Response to Reply #12 |
13. It's really quite simple. |
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ironbark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 08:16 AM Response to Reply #13 |
14. Yup |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 08:28 AM Response to Reply #14 |
15. The "thing" itself may not be directly observable, |
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ironbark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 09:11 AM Response to Reply #15 |
17. Do you have a prohibition |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 09:35 AM Response to Reply #17 |
18. I'm trying to be as general as possible. |
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ironbark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 10:29 AM Response to Reply #18 |
20. My “totally useless definition for "god."..” is ‘omnipotence’? |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 11:25 AM Response to Reply #20 |
21. Yeah, it's useless. |
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ironbark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 12:48 PM Response to Reply #21 |
23. It isn’t ‘my’ definition |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 02:15 PM Response to Reply #23 |
24. Sorry, this is going nowhere. |
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ironbark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 05:43 PM Response to Reply #24 |
26. I will forever treasure the memory |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 09:40 PM Response to Reply #26 |
30. Answer this one then. |
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ironbark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 10:47 PM Response to Reply #30 |
31. What!?...Your back expecting more!? |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 10:52 PM Response to Reply #31 |
32. Answering my question will answer yours. |
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ironbark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 11:41 PM Response to Reply #32 |
33. No it won’t. |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-18-09 06:50 AM Response to Reply #33 |
34. *sigh* |
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Silent3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-18-09 01:24 PM Response to Reply #23 |
40. Ah, so you don't get the idea of "explanatory power". |
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ironbark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-19-09 12:29 AM Response to Reply #40 |
47. Well, I thought I “got the idea” of god being defined |
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Silent3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-19-09 04:27 PM Response to Reply #47 |
52. The problem isn't just the definition, which is suspect enough... |
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skepticscott (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-19-09 05:36 PM Response to Reply #52 |
53. One might just as foolishly as ironbark |
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ironbark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-20-09 03:49 AM Response to Reply #53 |
55. Lame ad hom, projected straw man and no substance |
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skepticscott (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-20-09 07:43 AM Response to Reply #55 |
57. I tried to make it as simple and obvious as possible |
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ironbark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-20-09 09:56 AM Response to Reply #57 |
61. Oh it was simple and obvious- |
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ironbark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-20-09 03:34 AM Response to Reply #52 |
54. The invented terms and suspect definition game |
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Silent3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-20-09 04:07 PM Response to Reply #54 |
64. You think you've been accused of personally making up a definitions!? |
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Why Syzygy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-18-09 12:14 PM Response to Reply #17 |
39. What about ... |
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ironbark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-19-09 01:47 AM Response to Reply #39 |
48. I would not attempt to deny or refute |
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Why Syzygy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jun-16-09 01:35 PM Response to Reply #2 |
4. Hi. |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jun-16-09 02:57 PM Response to Reply #4 |
6. I found the blockage. |
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ironbark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 10:20 AM Response to Reply #2 |
19. self delete |
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Silent3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jun-16-09 01:50 PM Response to Original message |
5. E pur si muove |
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skepticscott (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jun-16-09 09:13 PM Response to Reply #5 |
9. The "old chestnut" |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 09:22 PM Response to Reply #5 |
29. After all the times as we have gone around heliocentrism in this forum, I would expect |
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rrneck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-18-09 10:01 AM Response to Reply #29 |
36. Reminds me of |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-18-09 12:01 PM Response to Reply #36 |
37. Or Lilliputians, quarreling about the proper opening of eggs |
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Silent3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-18-09 12:13 PM Response to Reply #29 |
38. Changing degrees of heavy-handedness... |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-18-09 08:18 PM Response to Reply #38 |
41. That particular plot has been exhaustively plowed over the last four hundred years, |
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Silent3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-18-09 09:49 PM Response to Reply #41 |
42. There are modern examples too, however. |
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Why Syzygy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-18-09 10:14 PM Response to Reply #42 |
43. Simple. |
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Silent3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-19-09 02:40 PM Response to Reply #43 |
51. What should I care that "science and religion used to be one and the same"? |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-18-09 10:42 PM Response to Reply #42 |
44. While claiming to defend science, you have a remarkably Platonist attitude towards abstraction |
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Silent3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-18-09 11:27 PM Response to Reply #44 |
45. Joyous for while powder epsilon triumphant likely northern facing crumpet. |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-19-09 12:15 AM Response to Reply #45 |
46. You provided what you claimed as evidence for a general thesis "religion is hostile to science" |
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Silent3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-19-09 02:20 PM Response to Reply #46 |
50. This is about definitions of words, not theories. |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-20-09 07:05 AM Response to Reply #50 |
56. An abstraction such as "duckness" has scientific utility only insofar as it is abstracted |
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Silent3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-20-09 08:18 AM Response to Reply #56 |
58. What on earth do you mean by "inherits scientific meaning"? |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-20-09 08:39 AM Response to Reply #58 |
59. It's dishonest of you to portray me as a creationist. I'm not, and you know that. |
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Silent3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-20-09 11:37 AM Response to Reply #59 |
62. I didn't portray you as a creationist... |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-20-09 09:39 AM Response to Reply #58 |
60. Let us review. You want to argue generally religion conflicts with science. The problem with |
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Silent3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-20-09 04:02 PM Response to Reply #60 |
63. Tell that to Galileo |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-20-09 05:21 PM Response to Reply #63 |
65. How ironic that you reference Galileo to support your view of definitions! Let us cite him |
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Silent3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-21-09 12:12 AM Response to Reply #65 |
67. Galileo still had to start with a definition of "motion". |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-21-09 06:17 AM Response to Reply #67 |
68. You think one begins by defining "motion" -- but in fact one begins by pointing to it |
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Silent3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jun-21-09 10:03 AM Response to Reply #68 |
69. You forgot to add "Grasshopper"... |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-22-09 04:42 AM Response to Reply #69 |
70. My point of view is completely coherent: instead of starting from a vague term like "religion" and |
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Silent3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jun-22-09 10:57 AM Response to Reply #70 |
71. Consistency, hobgoblins, etc. |
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skepticscott (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jun-20-09 05:47 PM Response to Reply #63 |
66. I wouldn't even say that subscribing to an objective reality |
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charlie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jun-16-09 04:00 PM Response to Original message |
7. Who is this guy? |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jun-16-09 04:43 PM Response to Original message |
8. The "people thought the earth was flat" thing is a bad example. |
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TZ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 08:51 AM Response to Original message |
16. LOL-these types of articles are so stupid.. |
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rrneck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 11:43 AM Response to Original message |
22. It's not about |
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Silent3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 06:06 PM Response to Reply #22 |
27. I don't think you need to invoke power politics... |
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HiFructosePronSyrup (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 03:29 PM Response to Original message |
25. This is an interesting post |
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TZ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jun-18-09 07:45 AM Response to Reply #25 |
35. considering this poster believes all scientists are liars. |
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struggle4progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jun-17-09 08:57 PM Response to Original message |
28. The idiotic claims pop up continually: here's R/T discussion about whether church banned forks: |
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ironbark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jun-19-09 02:24 AM Response to Reply #28 |
49. Thanks Struggle |
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