I pray for Obama once every day. I think I'm upping that to twice.

[gauguin57]

Ever since Obama took office, I've made a point to pray for him every day ... for safety, for wisdom, for strength in handling the challenges of running this country.

With all that's been going on, I think I'm going to make it a point to pray for him twice a day. At least.

[rcrush]

1. Sooner or later God is just going to send you straight to voicemail

I'd be annoyed if someone called me all the time to.

[Soylent Brice]

2. !!

:spray:

[Hutzpa]

8. .

:wtf:

[JuniperLea]

115. Dude... me too!

Jesus on the main line, tell Him what you want
Jesus on the main line, tell Him what you want
Jesus on the main line, tell Him what you want
You can call Him up and tell Him what you want

You can call Him up, call Him up and tell Him what you want
You can call Him up, call Him up and tell Him what you want
Call Him up, call Him up and tell Him what you want
Go on, call Him up and tell Him what you want



All these needy people who want too much! What ever happened to "Have thine own way, Lord?"

[Joe Bacon]

169. Jesus saves, but Moses Invests!

I'm Jewish and that's what I tell people who try to ram Jesus down my throat. Nothing is more irritating than intolerant fanatics!

[JuniperLea]

197. That's what I try to tell my Fundy family members...

If they are intent on cramming what they perceive as God's laws down the throats of the masses, then we have to open up the cramming to ALL religions. There's not a chance in hell (pardon the pun) that they want to give up their bacon and ham hocks or wash their feet and pray five times a day, so they better just be happy with the freedom to worship as they please and leave the rest of us damn well alone. From the Fundy perspective (as much as I try to shake it, it's ingrained and makes me wince) if God had wanted to force people into obeying his laws, he has the power to do so. If Jesus was sent to force his will upon the masses, he would have taught that message instead of the barefoot hippie live and let live socialist view he took... allegedly.

I'm sick of all organized religion... I'm betting Jesus is too... if he's for real:)

[Thickasabrick]

217. LOL....I have never heard that before.....keeper!!!!

[laconicsax]

235. +1

Mr. Deity and the messages

Jesus: ...so what you're saying here sir, is that you never answer any prayers?
Mr. Deity: Not really, no. There's just no incentive. I mean, look--if somebody prays to me and things go well, who get's the credit? Me, right? But if they pray to me and things don't go well, who gets the blame? Not me. So it's all good...I'm going to mess with that by steppin' in, putting my big nose where it doesn't belong?

[scheming daemons]

3. Two times nothing is still nothing.

Prayer is simply talking to yourself with a purpose.

[gratefultobelib]

188. Shhhhhhhh ............................!

[firedupdem]

4. Rec'd....I do too. n/t

[RepublicanElephant]

5. :)

O8)

[jonnyblitz]

6. i throw a virgin into the volcano daily for Dear Leader.

:patriot:

[bigwillq]

9. .......

:rofl:

[scheming daemons]

14. Where in the heck are you finding all these virgins?

Obama's been in office close to 250 days. Where you getting them all?


;-)

[jgraz]

18. He prays for them, of course

Sheesh, haven't you been paying attention?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

79. you too?

:applause:

[jgraz]

7. And how many times do you actually call the White House to voice your opinion?

At least you know someone's listening on that end, even if they don't seem to care.

[PurityOfEssence]

11. Enough with the reality crap

Haven't you been paying attention to this campaign for the last two years? It's not based on reality, performance or demonstrable fact, it's based on hope, faith, and the meek sweetness of the true-hearted that will inevitably prevail for the first time in human history.

The subservient hand-wringing and baleful beseeching of one's worldly and otherworldly superiors will solve all our problems and lead us out of the wilderness yet. It's the trustiest, faithalicious changiness we could ever need.

How dare you let your "concerns" darken the bliss of the good.

[Butch350]

201. I guess that means your way is not working?

[ChadwickHenryWard]

247. I'll say only this:

I'm glad that the Secret Service's operation do not consist of prayer, but of activities more substantial.

[Why Syzygy]

249. I dated a military intelligence officer

for a short time. He used the Tarot to help him find the "bad guys".

Hope you get to see, "The Men Who Stare at Goats". Don't bet any money on your theory.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

251. I have a friend who's in military intelligence.

He's confided to me that he just makes up his intelligence reports because he can't be bother to do his job right. What's you point?

[rd_kent]

261. Is it possible for you to make up something more plausible.

'Cause that is just shit, there.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

271. I'm sorry you feel that way.

Because it's absolutely true. I wonder though why you think it's not. I mean, really, why would I make something like that up?

[rd_kent]

274. I spent 21 years in the the same field as your "friend"

and NO ONE just "made up" intelligence. You are trolling here buddy, its very transparent.

[ZombieHorde]

10. So God won't give Pres. Obama safety, strength, and wisdom unless you ask him?

If God wanted Obama to be safe, strong, and wise wouldn't God just make Obama safe, strong, and wise?

Do you really think God takes requests?

Does praying twice a day double the likelihood for God to do your will?

[Jo March]

12. Ignore the nasty comments, gauguin57

I think that it's wonderful that you set aside time each day to pray for Obama.

:hug:

[Helga Scow Stern]

13. Keep it up! n/t

[immoderate]

15. This is hard, but I'm going to attemt an adult response. /child

Practices that comfort you and do no harm needn't be discouraged. All observations show that prayer, by itself, does nothing but warm the supplicant, who is feeling that they did something. What they are doing is wishing. I know that scripture says your prayers will be answered. That's overstated. Real world experience will show you that doesn't happen.

Prayer works best when accompanied by vigorous activity which leads you toward your goal.

I think though, that saying you're doubling up on prayer (and expecting different results) is more a statement of how much trouble we're in, and how little play our proposed solutions are getting, even with our chosen leader.

OK, I said I would attempt to be adult. :D

--imm

[Oregone]

16. creepy

[bigwillq]

17. Indeed.

Fanatics scare me.

[Rebubula]

21. Wow...

...so someone who prays for the good of our President is your definition of a 'Fanatic'?

[bigwillq]

22. I don't believe in prayer.

Or religion. To me, organized religions are a glorified cult. Who the hell is listening to the prayers? No one.

[Rebubula]

39. So what?

Billions of people do believe in prayer.

For the record, I have been an atheist for better than 20 years and see all religions as cults. However, some people need the distraction of god (or whatever) to get through the day. As long as they do not bother me (and the OP seems sincere and is not harming me), I do not care about their prayers.

We agree on principal, just not the parameters.

[CakeGrrl]

119. But you shit on what others believe in just because you don't?

Isn't that one of the biggest issues a lot of people have on this board about whatever socio-political issue concerns them the most?

I guess I don't see why it needs to be dumped on just because you don't agree.

[Oregone]

25. Sorta, yeah

Its strangely disturbing when magic religious rituals (like prayer) intersect politics.

A prayer is essentially a magic spell, where the prayer is trying to create an effect by channeling the power of a deity (they don't actually think they can do it themselves). It is just as a Wiccan may attempt to channel the power of Gaia to protect someone (and creepily enough, it isn't someone they know, but someone they watch and follow on their TV).

[Sugarcoated]

192. Fundie atheists scare me too

very creepy

[rd_kent]

262. What is a "fundie atheist"?

Inquiring minds want to know. I'm an atheist but I have never met a fundie atheist, so this is a new concept to me.

[Sugarcoated]

276. Some athiests, several here, unfortunately,

who seem to have a need to bully people who don't believe as they do and force their beliefs on others. It's the same thing that many fundamental Christians do.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

270. Stop with the idiotic "fundie atheists" slurs

It only makes you look ignorant.

[Sugarcoated]

277. I'm so glad you like it

:hi:

[JerseygirlCT]

284. Prayer makes someone a fanatic? nt

[spoony]

19. Yes, you are.

[xultar]

47. Why is it creepy. He needs all the help he can get. With all the people wanting

to kill him and all.

[Oregone]

52. Channeling the power of an invisible deity to magically protect a politican is a tad creepy

Doing it twice a day, is well, maybe something a professional should deal with

[xultar]

181. I now I see why people dislike 'progressives' so much.

[wryter2000]

228. Not progressives

Evangelical atheists. They seem threatened by the fact that someone might be praying for the President.

Frankly, I got so d*mn*d sick of BOTH sides misrepresenting my former faith (both sides being fundy Christians and atheists) that I went back to it, and I enjoy church a hell of a lot more than I enjoy the religion bashing on this site. I now pray for the Obamas at least once a week and more when I think of doing it. Like, right now...

[darkstar3]

242. I REALLY hate that term

I understand your frustration with the mockery exhibited on this thread. As an atheist, it kinda pisses me off too. But that phrase "evangelical atheist" just could not be more wrong.

Fundamentalist doesn't work when you put it with atheist, either.

If you want to, call them assholes, or any number of other things you can think of, or even alert on their posts if you feel like it. Just don't butcher the English language or the concept of atheism by throwing out that annoying-ass phrase...

[DeSwiss]

265. Agreed.

And when statements like these (evangelical atheists) are made by mods, it throws their objectivity into question in my view. I'm not saying that mods shouldn't be allowed to weigh-in with their opinions on threads. But they should also strive to use the correct wording, definitions and meanings of words -- not to mention how misnaming people and things tends to piss some people off. I thought the mods purpose was in part to promote civility. Particularly here in R/T. :P

In any event, the word: Evangelical atheists is an oxymoron since the definition of http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evangelical">Evangelical is: "relating to, or being in agreement with the Christian gospel especially as it is presented in the four Gospels."

There's no way an atheist can ever be evangelical. Period.

===============================================================
DeSwiss


http://atheisttoolbox.com/">The Atheist Toolbox

[Cha]

95. Yeah, I know..you really should do something

about that.

[spoony]

20. A religious person! Pile on!

Don't worry about the kids with keyboards.

[khal02]

23. Keep it up

I pray for the president everyday too and truly think God is with him. And ignore these people who don't believe. They are just as intolerant of those that do believe as fundamnentalist Christians are of nonbelievers. Not all democrats are atheists especially in the black community. We believe in God and in progressive principles...the 2 are not mutually exclusive

[Oregone]

28. I sacrifice a goat every day for Obama

And soon I will consider an Ox if these attacks keep up. The blood, I spread partially around my doorway to ward off spirits. And the rest, I sent to him in a box. There is nothing abnormal about believing and praying and sacrificing. I'm tired of the intolerant atheists and their gay atheist agenda

[restless native]

202. LOL

Um...some of us who believe in a 'higher power' (:puke: don't like this term) don't do crazy rituals, but get down with your bad self...

[rrneck]

252. I sacrifice a beer. Maybe I'll up it to two... :) nt

[margotb822]

24. I had a terrifying dream last night

I had a dream that one of the Glenn Beck loonies had committed the ultimate crime (the one we're all afraid of) and I literally woke up screaming. I guess this weekend really made me see that Obama is truly a target of the unstable right-wingers. I'm more concerned for him now than ever before.

I'm adding my prayers in now, too!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

26. l think, who you pray for should be a private issue

between you and your god/dess.

Not sure what you want us to say about this...

[liquid diamond]

29. So the OP should not start a thread on this?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

31. why would they? i dont quite get it. Some people will think its creepy,

and some will think "bravo"

And i think people who think its creepy, is not because they pray its because they publicize their prayers. as though looking for applause. its very strange to pray in this manner

[Oregone]

35. My creepiness went beyond the advertisment

It reminded me when I went into my neighbors' home and on top of their TV, which was set on FOX, there was a picture of George and Laura Bush smiling. They looked at that picture probably 2/3rds of the day, or more, that they watched TV. They were also fundamentalist right-wingers.

Look. These people are politicians. They are public figures (used to be servants). Its creepy that people constantly follow, stalk, and want them to be yet another figure in their life and household. And its creepier yet when they ask their magic fairy god to bestow magic fairy protection upon their infatuations.

Its not he, she, or it that you belong to. People need to get some fuckn lives.

[DevonRex]

43. That's some serious disdain you have for people of faith. Why do you have to

put them down like that? It's very petty. So you don't believe in a god? Big deal. Other people do believe in a god? Big deal. The OP isn't trying to force you TO believe in a god. But you're acting like anyone who DOES believe in a god is the stupidest of the stupid. Why? What's your motive? Are they gonna change their minds because you were a creepy, rude, nasty person on a discussion board?

[Oregone]

51. I expressed no direct disdain in that post for religion, specifically

I merely characterized such ritual religious prayer as a practice of magic & mysticism. The OP expressed their intention to channel their deity to magically protect someone they had in mind.

If you have disdain for that, its of your of doing.

[Oregone]

30. "But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door"

Jesus says you must definitely not pray as the hypocrites pray.

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen : for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

[liquid diamond]

40. I don't think the OP posted a prayer to protect Obama.

That wasn't the act of praying. They just said they do pray. Some people are so damn touchy.

[Oregone]

53. Yeah, they announced to the entire community they pray

And thats sorta the point of that verse. The hypocrites don't pray on the street corner for the sake of praying. They pray in order to let everyone know they pray. That verse is condemning publicizing prayer, and suggests it should remain entirely private.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

69. yes. and in this way, jesus in on my side of this ridiculous argument

he too finds public prayer tacky.

[Duke Newcombe]

300. Why crow about a "Sky Fairy" being on your side in a internet debate, exactly?

I ask for informational purposes only.

[liquid diamond]

90. Your interpretation is a stretch. Those in public want attention for the

act they are committing. Just saying I pray is not the same as praying in public.

[spoony]

206. Why are you being such a douchebag about it?

It makes you look microscopically small.

[gauguin57]

46. I'm praying for you, oregone.

And read my most recent posts (at the bottom of the thread) before you thump your bible at me.

[Oregone]

54. Im sacraficing a goat for you, gauguin

[La Lioness Priyanka]

57. why not a virgin?

:P

[Oregone]

60. Ive always had trouble finding one that stayed that way for any length of time

[La Lioness Priyanka]

61. well if you sacrificed her for your fav politician, she would have no choice

but to stay that way.

[PassingFair]

174. How about a virgin goat?

Kidding....

:evilgrin:

[gauguin57]

59. I'm calling PETA on you, Oregone!

LOL! Please don't kill any animals on my account. Voodoo dolls are permissible. I have one myself.

[Duke Newcombe]

286. Why quote the silly book with Sky Fairy sayings...

that you don't believe in, anyway? Kinda pointless.

[liquid diamond]

27. Sorry, but sadly you are going to be flayed. There is very little

tolerance for religion here.

[Oregone]

32. Sure there is

Just not for fanatics.

[spoony]

207. Fanatic = person who can't stop posting about other people's religion

[Duke Newcombe]

287. Where Fanatic = anyone Oregone knows who worships a deity.

At least from what I can gather by your past posting.

Kinda circular logic you're using, isn't it?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

33. its not the religiousity that is the problem, its that something are considered private

for instance if i said, i jerk off to obama, it would be creepy. not because people are sex negative, but because it is a private issue. obama is a gorgeous and brilliant man. i am sure he features in a lot of people's fantasies. however its way creepy to hear about it.

[liquid diamond]

41. You compare prayer to masturbating? lol.

Any reasonable person would find the latter more "creepy" than saying a prayer.
:rofl:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

45. no, i compare private issues to other private issues. nt

[PVnRT]

164. Why is masturbation more creepy than prayer?

[KansasVoter]

84. I tolerate it. Like I would belief in greek gods. It is silly.

[liquid diamond]

91. So much for being a progressive.

[mscuedawg]

34. My faith is strong enough to stand up to ridicule...

I'm with you Gauguin...I pray daily for our President...for his safety, along with his family, and for God to watch over him and his administration...

Be thankful that you know God's love...I couldn't imagine my life without it!


:pals:

[liquid diamond]

44. God bless you mscuedaw.

:grouphug:

[mscuedawg]

86. Thanks LD!

:grouphug:

[musicblind]

148. +1

:hug:

[darkstar3]

266. I'm curious about something.

What do people mean when they use the phrase "I couldn't imagine my life without x"?

Don't get me wrong, I've said it before, but what troubles me is the fact that it is a patently impossible statement. Discounting for the moment that the human mind is capable of imagining anything under the sun (and some things elsewhere), by simply making the statement itself, you are actually imagining the very thing you fear, if only for a split second. In fact, I find that every time I have ever used this statement in the past, it has followed shortly after imagining just what I was talking about.

I think what you mean to say is that you don't like to imagine your life without God, or that you can't imagine your life without God while keeping your supper down.

And here's the part where I'm curious: Obviously you HAVE imagined your life without God, so when that happened, what did you see and why?

(I'm really not trying to be an ass here, so forgive me if I come off as one. I just think that this question will help us both better understand the gap between thoughtful atheist and thoughtful believer.)

[Duke Newcombe]

288. Replace the saying with:

"I can't imagine my life without my kids".

Make any more sense?

[darkstar3]

290. You're dodging the question.

"I can't imagine my life without kids" is no different from "I can't imagine my life without God", and it still means that you HAVE imagined it at some point, however briefly.

So would you care to take a stab at the questions I asked, or were you just driving by this evening?

[Duke Newcombe]

293. I was trying to make the concept more "accessible" to you.

Look, I don't know if you have kids or not. Those of us with them would not want to go on living in this world without the love, wonder, and joy that they give us. If they were taken away, we'd be devastated. We can't wonder how we got through and enjoyed life before we had them. That's what that saying says to me. Take the concept, applied to our God, time 1,000,000,000, and it comes somewhat close.

Any more snarky comebacks, or are we done here?

[darkstar3]

295. Snarky?

If I was being snarky, I had a whole multitude of 'imagination' references I could have pulled.

I'm not trying to be snarky. I am instead very interested in one specific thing, namely what exactly it is that believers fear in a world without God. You say you would be devastated. Why? You say you wouldn't be able to enjoy life. Why?

[Duke Newcombe]

296. Okay. Deep breath.

Do you have a wife/husband/significant other?

Any kids?

[darkstar3]

298. Stop looking at it from the point of view of loss,

and start looking at from the point of view of never having known God/kids/wife/etc.

[Duke Newcombe]

299. Then you don't get it, then. Too bad.

What I have now is better than what I didn't have then. I don't want to go back. That sums it up.

I'll leave it to someone with more patience that I have to explain it, if an explanation is really what you're after.

Good day to you.

[darkstar3]

301. You never attempted to answer the question.

You said 'What I have now is better than what I have then.' This would be true of anyone who has had children or been happily married. The problem is that these are physical world examples involving real people who have an impact on our lives, not supernatural examples whose impacts are difficult to scientifically prove.

In short, your wife/husband/kids examples have no bearing on my original question, which was, to restate: "What did you see when you pictured your life without God?"

[CitizenLeft]

36. you people ridiculing the poster are no better - NO better...

...than the rightwing freaks in this country who want to control your life.

Have some class and at least try to repress the bigot in you.

And you call yourselves liberals. Look the word up. Unbelievable.

[liquid diamond]

42. Hence my post on lack of tolerance. eom

[jgraz]

58. No one's trying to control anyone

Some of us just think that it would be nice to have one party that wasn't governed by worthless superstition.

[KansasVoter]

85. LOL.....so if I told you I talked to richard nixon nightly you would understand?

[Duke Newcombe]

297. You'd never know how I felt about it.

I'd keep how I felt about it to myself. Why needlessly ridicule?

[Number23]

123. +50. And your use of the word "bigot" is absolutely correct.

But they will fight and scream til the end of time about being called what they are.

[musicblind]

149. It's sad. But that is what these people are Biggots. They are no better than people ridiculing

someone for being gay.

[Number23]

158. And with that simple, plain truth you just won this entire thread

Beautifully said. Absolutely perfect.

[PVnRT]

165. Wow

Maybe you could call the atheists in this thread Nazis who invented eugenics.

Maybe you Christians could give us evil heathen atheists a list of things we are allowed to say, so we don't hurt your feelings.

[Duke Newcombe]

289. No list necessary.

Just try to refrain from assholery. That's good advice for anyone, no?

[darkstar3]

267. Actually, I think you lose with that argument.

And the LGBT people will back me up on that. Religion is a choice, while homosexuality is not.

Oh I agree with your use of the word bigot, I just think that if you're going to equate religion bashing with rampant homophobia, you'd better don your own flamesuit PFQ.

[Duke Newcombe]

291. Dangerously close to an "Animal Farm" mindset

All bigotry is equal...but some bigotry is MORE equal than others?

Inequity is inequity. Bigotry is bigotry.

[darkstar3]

294. The world is not binary, Duke

Not all bigotry is the same. To wit:

My neighbors are incredibly nice people. There is a large age difference between us and we run in different social circles, but whenever possible we talk over the fence about whatever happens to cross our minds. I trust the 'niceness', if you will, of these people so much that I have allowed them into my home, and even asked them to watch the pets while Mrs. Darkstar and I are away.

Here's the problem. He's a very enthusiastic racist. He voted for Obama because he thought McCain was a tool, but he still drops the n-word too frequently for my comfort. Which is probably part of the reason we don't talk as often as we could.

Anyway, his bigotry pales sharply in comparison to any member of the KKK or especially the local Aryan's, who chortle about killing n*****s and physically threaten members of their own race whom they consider traitors.

Having met both kinds of racist bigots, I can tell you there is certainly a difference in their bigotry, and in this example we haven't even left the field of racism.

Now when it comes to religion and homosexuality, there is also a difference in bigotry. Religion is a choice, while homosexuality is not. Telling someone, however vehemently, that they have made the wrong choice is not equal to telling someone that they are 'the lesser' because of who they are.

I can't put any finer point on it than that. If you truly believe that all bigotry is equal, I suggest an experiment: Find an Israeli-born Jew, a Mexican, and an old Black man, and sit them down in the same room. Tell them that all bigotry is the same, and watch the sparks fly.

[GrilledCheeses]

200. Making fun of prayer puts someone on the same ground as a...

"right-wing freak" who condones torture? the same "reich-wing freaks" who wish for our President to die?

:rofl:

[CitizenLeft]

203. did you draw that analogy out of your ass, the same place where...

...your brain resides?

No, it's the same as - as you can read (or maybe not) "rightwing freaks who try to control your life." Who want to control what you think and HOW OFTEN YOU PRAY. Denigrating someone with faith is the same as denigrating someone who lacks it. No mention of torture, or assassination wish-lists in that post.

Shouldn't have had to explain that, but I guess you're too busy rolling around on the floor in your own slobber to be able to read your monitor screen.

[GrilledCheeses]

205. hold on, let me get off the floor and wipe the slobber off...

You are the one who put people denigrating faith in the same category (they are "NO BETTER") as those who tell LGBT's that they can't marry (controlling people's lives), or adopt children. When I hear the phrase "right-wing freak" i assume you're using a broad-brush painting of a right winger...meaning they support torture, as well as things like the Patriot Act, DOMA, DADT...I just don't see people mocking prayer as being on equal footing as a right wing freak...but I see you do.

okay, now back to :rofl:

[CitizenLeft]

227. read your posts again.

You sound really... kinda... stupid.

Just sayin'.

[GrilledCheeses]

256. mocking prayer =/= "a right wing freak who wants to control your lives"

that's the bottom line.

I agree that it's in bad taste to mock someone who has nothing but good intentions for our President, but an immature atheist is NOT THE SAME.

It really shouldn't be that hard to understand what I'm saying.

[gauguin57]

37. Guess what, everyone! I'm not a Christian. Nor do I go to church. Organized religion not for me.

But I do believe in God.

And I do believe in putting positive energy out into the universe. Call it that, rather than prayer, if prayer isn't your thing.

I also call and write my congresscritters and volunteer for progressive causes (and my local Democratic party).

I am as far from a fanatic as you can possibly get. Unless you mean a fanatic for health-care reform, improving our foreign policy, job creation, etc. etc.

And I will pray daily for Obama.

[gauguin57]

38. ... and thank you to the folks who are also praying for the president.

He needs them ... and I think Obama would appreciate the prayers of those of us who do pray (along with our support through volunteering, calling, writing, etc.) I also, BTW, pray for his family. It has to be so painful to watch what the teabaggers are saying about your husband/father ... and it must be scary to be in the middle of that sh*tstorm of hate.

[xultar]

50. I just wanted to personally say thank you for praying for him.

[ecstatic]

82. Yes, thank you

I see your positive thread has brought out some of the worst of DU but many of us appreciate your OP.

[PassingFair]

175. Do you believe that you have supernatural intercessionary powers?

Do you believe that you will sway the fates
with your incantations?

Really?

Spend your time any way you choose,
but please don't expect accolades from
rational thinkers.

I BELIEVE that your time would be better
spent contacting your representatives or
volunteering somewhere, or even speaking
to neighbors and friends. Making sure that
you do THAT TWICE a day would be impressive.

However, if it makes YOU feel better or more empowered,
well, have at it!

[gauguin57]

48. Well. This thread certainly has been an education for me today.

I posted that I pray for Obama -- with no other info.

I suppose I should have said, "I think those of us who pray need to remember Obama in our prayers." And then everyone who doesn't pray (or believe in sending out positive, rather than negative :eyes: energy into the universe) could just ignore the post.

But then I probably would have heard, "WE DON'T PRAY, YOU FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIAN FANATICAL FREAK, YOU! THERE IS NO GOD! KEEP YOUR HOCUS-POCUS OUT OF OUR PRECIOUS MESSAGE BOARD! ATHEISTS ONLY! NO BELIEVERS ALLOWED!"

Despite the fact that I later posted that I am not a Christian (though I do try to follow Jesus' general example) and that I eschew organized religion. Just a plain old liberal believer in God and prayer. Not magic spells. Not praying to the exclusion of action (like volunteering, calling and writing congresspeople, etc.).

All I can do is sigh. And be sad that, not only is our country divided by nastiness, but that our board is so divided by nastiness (not disagreement ... nastiness).

[AspenRose]

80. Regarding what you should have said

It wouldn't have mattered. You would have gotten the same reception.

[xultar]

49. With all the people threatening his life...every little bit helps!

[Oregone]

56. Cept it, well, ya know, doesn't help

Magic isn't real

[musicblind]

150. You must live a very sad boring life n/t

[wryter2000]

230. Back when I was an atheist/agnostic

I always accepted people's prayers for me and people close to me. How absolutely rude not to. In fact, a friend had a mass said in a Catholic church for my husband when he died. Neither of us have ever been Catholic because we disagree with some church doctrine, but I found my friend's gift very touching, and I told him so.

[darkstar3]

269. Rude? Really?

Acceptance is one thing, and if I found out that someone was praying for me (and I'm sure someone is) I wouldn't mind. But I think you've overlooked something massive.

The condescension often involved in the simple phrase "I'll pray for you" when said to a known unbeliever is astonishingly high, and very insulting. Take it from someone who's had their share of "I'll pray for you"s thrown at them: It's not always a positive statement, sometimes it means "fuck off and don't talk to me anymore."

[grantcart]

55. Fortunately for everyone involved I know that She doesn't listen to me

[gauguin57]

62. She doesn't listen to me either. Or I'd have had a pony when I was 8.

However, I hope Gaia or God or Goddess or Dionysus or Isis or whoever might be able to hold out a protective hand over the president during these dark days ... well, I hope hesheit will do so.

[gauguin57]

63. I can't wait to tell all my friends the people on this board think I'm a religious fanatic!

They will BUST A GUT laughing!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

64. you dont have to be a fanatic to use your faith in a manner that is ridiculous. nt

[gauguin57]

65. Wow.

Just wow.

Judgmental, much?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

66. wow. defensive much?

[gauguin57]

67. Prayin' for ya, La Lioness.

Have a nice day!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

68. do what you want to, but when you call public attention on your prayers

expect that some people will find it ridiculous.

[gauguin57]

72. As I said before, I wasn't doing it to call public attention to me, but to encourage those who DO

pray, to pray for Obama's safety. Because things have turned so ugly and scary. And because it was meant as something positive, not as something "ridiculous."

And now I feel bad, because, in trying to put positive energy out there, and to defend it, I've taken time away from the letter I'm trying to write today to one of my senators about health-care reform.

And I've become very sad about Democratic Underground, which has been my refuge through some dark days.

Back to my letter.

On edit: Actually, because people have pissed me off today, maybe I'll write the other letter I have to write ... the one to my congressman, who wouldn't vote for health-care reform if he had no insurance and his mother was on fire. Maybe I need to be pissed off to write that one ... so thanks to everyone who completely mistook what I've had to say, and gave me the edge I need to write to this neocon!

[kimmerspixelated]

73. I think your post was wonderful.

I'm sorry so many felt the need to be mean. I worry about Obama as well. He needs all the help he can get-period.

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

237. Same here.

Its amazing how any form of prayer that helps people get through their days is pounced upon just because someone thinks its crazy. This place has surely changed... There is a lot I want to say but I just hold it in and limit my visits. Oops I might have said too much.

[spoony]

209. Why the fuck wouldn't someone be defensive after the likes of you

and your co-assholes attack them mercilessly for a harmless comment? Do you even realise what utter pricks you look like? Or is it just so much a part of your character, this flaw of yours, that you don't even care anymore?

[phoenixriz]

76. Thank you, gauguin57

We do not need to prove ourselves and our beliefs/nonbelievers to anyone. I believe in being courteous to everyone and you have been chastised for nothing but saying something about your personal feelings. I respect you for that and also pray for the state of our world including Obama and family. Prayer to me is the sending out of positive vibes to lift a person up. I am a intuitive person, and as others here I am sure, can feel a persons anger/happiness if I am in their presence. My son died at 21 yrs from an accident and I could actually feel the energies of love lifting me up through that difficult time.

I go to gratefulness.org and light candles in the "Obama" group. It helps me. Everyone has their own personal way of feeling they are doing something positive if we can't actually be there to give someone a hug.

[gauguin57]

156. Thank you, phoenixriz. I am so sorry for the loss of your son.

I felt the positive energy from my friends' prayers when each of my parents died, as well. I'm glad the positive energy helped you through what must have been the worst days of your life. I wish you blessings.

[JNelson6563]

162. Lovely post

I agree with you on the vibes thing. When I was a believer I knew prayer was really more like meditation in that it was therapeutic to the one "praying". To be thoughtful and wish another good is a kind, generous thing to do. It harms no one so i don't really get why it draws such venom.

That you could draw positive energy from the love you felt at the time of your son's death speaks of how intuitive you are. The kind thoughfulness of others can be a very healing thing, no matter what form it takes. Thank you for sharing your story, it speaks volumes about you--all of it good.

Julie--a not very angry atheist

[KansasVoter]

70. Any god who needs prayer to do the right thing is worthless!!!

[HopeOverFear]

71. Keep praying, my friend.

[Czar One]

74. I pray for his safety, too

And I'm a freakin' AGNOSTIC!

[Christa]

75. I don't believe in prayer

However, I sure hope his secret service men are on their toes.




*

[Hekate]

77. I'm with you, gaugin. I pray for all that and a LONG life -- a Ted Kennedy long life....

It's a funny thing, but I used to think that asking for divine intervention in US politics was too petty an endeavor to bother God/dess with. That was before Bush-Cheney Inc set about destroying all I hold dear. Now I figure that if I'm going to pray I might as well pray for all that I hold dear. It's a measure of my distress that I now do so.

Don't listen to the naysayers. Do they jump on DUers who ask for prayers/good thoughts/kind meditations on behalf of sick or dying family members? No, they do not. 99.9% of those who disbelieve in the efficacy of such things keep a decent silence.

:hug:

Hekate

[ChickMagic]

78. I'm not a religious person, but good for you

If that is your belief, then you are doing a good thing. Maybe it
could help bring a more positive atmosphere. Don't let the
anti-religious comments get to you.

[OwnedByFerrets]

81. Were you expecting applause?

[KansasVoter]

83. I butchered a chicken and screamed 'hootenannie'...should have the same effect!

[liquid diamond]

93. Is this necessary? You don't share our beliefs.

We get the point. Why be a jerk? You are just as nasty and intolerant as the right-wing hacks.

[DevonRex]

99. They're acting like a buch of 13 year olds trying to look cool.

And they're failing, just as the 13 year olds do.

[liquid diamond]

103. Their behavior contradicts what it means to be a liberal...open-minded and tolerant.

[DevonRex]

105. I agree. What's more shocking to me is seeing DUers opening making fun of

OTHER DUers. It's shameful.

[musicblind]

151. This whole thread is shocking to me. These so called "progressive" posters are full of so much hate.

Thank goodness they don't seem to be in the majority. The people making fun of religion are just like the bigots who hate on gay people, or the bullies in school for that matter.

I wonder why they even try so hard? Are they trying to make up for something or convince themselves or something? They know, for a fact, that acting like a 13 year old won't do anything but make them look like another Kanye West... and yet still they persist.

[PVnRT]

166. LOL. Are you new to GD:P?

DUers attacking each other in this forum is a daily occurrence.

[Critters2]

216. Every community has some subset that functions as a scapegoat.

Read Rene Girard. Every human group has a subset that the community agrees that its okay to discriminate against, or even to drive out. All groups do it. On DU, the scapegoat group is religious people. Not saying I endorse it, being a religious person myself. It just demonstrates that we're not special in this way.

[spoony]

210. So you're a prick, congrats.

[PurityOfEssence]

87. So...ANY thread questioning our President is unreced to less than zero, but this poppycock is +13???

For what possible reason? What makes this the least bit "GREAT"?

Personally, I think we should sacrifice a few sheep and call it a day.

[KansasVoter]

88. Praise The Lord!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

89. virgins please people. virgins are the only acceptable sacrifice. nt

[DevonRex]

94. I think you've shit on the original poster enough for one day. It's very telling about YOU.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

110. or its very telling that YOU dont have a sense of humor. nt

[DevonRex]

116. Belittling other people is not humor. Sad you don't know that. nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

189. sad, you cant see that it is funny and i am not belittling whomever posted this.

just making a joke out of sacrifices. ofcourse i find you sad, in general

[CakeGrrl]

146. If the OP doesn't share your humor, it isn't working.

What is it that YOU care about? What interests you? How do you express yourself?

Hopefully you don't run into someone who's so self-amused they can't figure out when they've crossed over into insulting what matters to you.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

190. the op doesnt have to share my humor for it to be funny. s/he is not five years old.

and should be able to stand some humor, in their rather amusing thread

[CakeGrrl]

219. Interesting. When I went back and read your comments, they were

either not understanding the point of the post, or jabbing at the OP for defending their position. I didn't see much humor in your comments at all, but whatever floats your boat.

[Why Syzygy]

244. It's a deep seated insecurity (fear)

that motivates those who tear down others. Psych 101.

I'm glad so many are defending the OP. :applause:

[ProSense]

96. Oh get over the self-righteous whining crap, as if postive Obama threads aren't being unrec'd

People unrec threads. Get use to it and stop the whining.

[DevonRex]

98. +1. nt

[musicblind]

152. +2

[DesertRat]

92. Same here

I appreciate your post and hope that it encourages others to pray for President Obama as well. :thumbsup:

[FrenchieCat]

97. I'm right there with you!

[Jackeens]

100. Hey gauguin57, I'm so sorry you've got all this abuse when you meant nothing but good.

It's pretty extraordinary that you get labelled a "fanatic" simply because you have faith and choose to use it to pray to your God that the President is kept safe from harm. It says so much more about those who abuse you than it does about you.

[firedupdem]

101. +1

This thread is really ugly. It's shameful that someone would be ridiculed this way for believing in God and praying. If they don't believe, fine... move on...why harass the poster? Shameful.

[DevonRex]

107. It has shown me a very ugly side of DU, unfortunately. I can't believe

the things people are saying here.

[CakeGrrl]

122. These hot-button topics are enlightening, aren't they?

You never know what will bring out the sometimes-unpleasant attitudes of people.

[DevonRex]

124. Yes, they are. I've really had an eye-opening experience, reading

some of the posts. I'm a recovered fundie and I don't practice any formal religion, except that of my own making. And I would never, not in a million years, poke fun at anyone because they said they prayed for something good.

[spoony]

212. Except that, in the real world

making the innocent comment the OP did does not carry the attack pheromone it seems to here.

[Why Syzygy]

241. Yes.

They usually confine themselves to the dungeons.

Frankly I'm glad more DU'ers are seeing this display of aggression we have in our midst.
Some of us see it often. It makes me feel good, though, to read comments like yours and others who obviously understand the value of kindness.

[Political Tiger]

118. I agree! I admire those who use their faith for good

unlike the right who uses faith to promote hate and intolerance.

[DevonRex]

102. You know something? I'll light a candle for him as darkness sets

every evening. I have my own way of doing things since I don't belong to any organized religion. But you have inspired me to include Obama in my evening rites.

And what the heck. I'll include him in my morning, too, as I fire up the kitchen to get my family ready for the day.

[DutchLiberal]

104. Oh good golly, I'm sure he'll win every political fight *now*!

:eyes:

[DevonRex]

106. Another one trying to be in the "in" crowd in Jr. High. Shame on you. nt

[DutchLiberal]

108. I think make-belief, the kind the OP engages in, is more fitting Jr. High.

[Jackeens]

111. No, your sneering at someone's sincerity, because they have different beliefs to you, is...

...the stuff of Jr High.

[DutchLiberal]

113. No, believing in magic spells to protect a human being, is Jr. High.

No wait, that's actually too immature for Jr. High. It's more like something you would expect in kindergarten.

[Jackeens]

126. So, practising Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Jews, etc are to be sneered at? Very liberal of you.

[DevonRex]

127. I'm rather glad, all in all, that the sneerers have exposed themselves.

It's a really unpleasant trait. You just never know who you're talking to on these intertubes, do you?

[Jackeens]

128. The usual suspects, DevonRex, the usual suspects. And I thought 'progressive bigot' was an oxymoron!

[DevonRex]

136. Apparently it's not. Who knew?

Ah well, I have seen many like myself who don't follow any formal religion taking up for those who do and for those who simply pray or light a candle or send positive energy out. That was something good.

:hi:

[Jackeens]

141. But, but, but: "something good" is positively EVIL!

:toast:

[DutchLiberal]

131. Oh my, are you going to make a list of all the "sneerers"?

[Jackeens]

133. Scribbling as we speak....is there one bigot or two in DutchLiberal?

[DevonRex]

138. OMG. ROFLMAO!!!!!

That's a Duzy!!!

[DutchLiberal]

186. Oh my, did you come up with that all by yourself?

[DevonRex]

139. I can remember the few folks who acted like jerks without having

to write it down.

[DutchLiberal]

187. Good for you! You're doing such important work!

[DutchLiberal]

130. Finally! You got my point at last!

[Jackeens]

135. Cool. Do you prefer gas chambers or crucifixes, or are you not fussy?

[DutchLiberal]

185. You, sir, are an imbecile.

[Mrs. Overall]

232. So, who are the liberal politicians that you respect? The Kennedy's, Jimmy Carter, Joe Biden, Obama

(to name just a few) all profess faith and attend church regularly and have talked about their personal faith.

Are you going to call Ted Kennedy and Jimmy Carter kindergartners?

[Jackeens]

109. Hey DutchLiberal, go **** yourself. Best wishes.

[DutchLiberal]

114. Oh no, YOU'RE very mature, I must say!

:eyes:

[Jackeens]

129. Why, thank you!

:hi:

[spoony]

213. Your childish antics deserve nothing more elevated

In fact, you got off easy on that.

[JuniperLea]

112. I visualize him and his family surrounded in protecting white light...

I lift up to the Universe the feeling of love I have for this family, and my sincere hope that light surrounds their lives, their thoughts, their paths, their work, and their love for one another.

[Political Tiger]

117. Good for you! n/t

:applause:

[Window]

120. K/R. Twice a day here.

:kick:

[CakeGrrl]

121. Good vibes, thoughts and well-wishes in any form can't hurt!

It's nice to hear anything positive in an antidote to the toxic, stupid thoughts of Teabaggers and their ilk.

[DevonRex]

125. Now, that's a good vibe I can leave on for the night.

Thank you.

:hi:

[Kaylee]

132. I haven't formally prayed in a while. I'll make sure to say one

tonight for both his safety and the country's well-being (....and for more tolerance at DU!). At least it'll make me feel better.

[Number23]

134. The most shameful and illuminating thread I've seen in a looooong time

Please note the names of the main posters in this thread showing their behinds. They'll be the ones screaming about "intolerance" and "bigotry" at others shortly.

[Jackeens]

137. + 50,000,000, or thereabouts.

[DevonRex]

140. Yep, yep, yep.

I don't suppose it occurred to them that they simply didn't need to take part in a thread about someone praying for something good to happen. So they had to come in and berate and belittle those of faith. Illuminating is exactly the word I was looking for.

[PVnRT]

167. Let me know when Christians face the same prejudices in this country as atheists

kthxbai

[spoony]

214. So, what, you're here to level the field by shitting on someone online?

Way to strike a blow for civil rights, lol. Do yourself a favour. Look around this thread and try to put two and two together as to why atheists may not be the most liked group of people.

[PVnRT]

254. Maybe you could point out where, on this thread, I've "shit on" anyone

I notice just as much vitriol and anger coming from your side as well. Your posts in this thread, for instance.

Yes, three or four people said something biting. Boo hoo. If your faith is so weak you just can't stand anyone making fun it, maybe you ought to withdraw from society for the rest of your life. Not one single fucking atheist in this thread has suggested that, for instance, you shouldn't be able to practice your religion, or that you shouldn't be able to talk about it, or that you shouldn't be able to hold public office, or anything like that.

Go down to R/T sometime and look for the threads tacitly calling atheists and scientists Nazis sometime, and put two and two together yourself.

[hileeopnyn8d]

172. Or writing

long screeds about how the unrec button marginalizes them.

[rockymountaindem]

142. Man, what a bunch of assholes around here

I guess I'd better not let it slip that I'm going to synagogue on Yom Kippur lest anybody think I'm a fanatic for taking a little personal time and directing it toward prayer. Let me relay a conversation I had in high school for the benefit of some of you people here...

The exchange occurred between me and a young man who is/was a HUGH!!!11! Republican and right-wing Christian of the Dobson/Falwell stamp. I remember it distinctly because it is one of only a handful of times anybody ever put me down for my religion even in one of the most Christian conservative places in America. Here goes:

Me: I'm not going to be at tennis practice on Thursday.
Him: Why not?
Me: It's Yom Kippur
Him: What's that?
Me: It's a Jewish holiday.
Him: Why can't you come to practice? You gonna be in church all day?
Me: Well, I'm not going to be in synagogue, which is what we call our house of worship, all day, but even when I'm not there I can't eat or drink all day so I had better not come to play tennis in the hot sun in that case.
Him: Why can't you eat anything?
Me: We don't eat or drink for 25 hours to show our contrition for the sins we have committed. It's a way of showing repentance and that we're serious about asking for forgiveness.
Him: So you think you'll be forgiven just by praying and not eating all day?
Me: Well, that's the gist of it.
Him (this is the important part) : That's the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard.

Now for this young man, the main issue was that I was fucking stupid for thinking God would absolve me of my sins without me becoming a believer in Jesus. I didn't need to ask him to explain that because in Colorado Springs, you just understand these things when people say them. However, the point I'm trying to make is that a lot of you here sound *exactly* like that guy but from the opposite perspective. I didn't appreciate it coming from him and it doesn't sound any better coming from you. And if you think you don't sound like that, let me reassure you: yes, you do.

[musicblind]

154. I'll second that. Yes, they do.

They sound frighteningly similar.

[AspenRose]

195. It's ok, most of the hostility (and insults) here is/are directed toward Christians.

If you read through the thread, there have been people here who have expressed their faith as being something *other* than Christian, but the majority of the vitriol and prejudice is saved for the Christians.

[Clio the Leo]

143. And THIS is why the GOP OWNS the Bible belt....

..... not your OP Gauguin .... your point is excellent.

Some of the replies, not so much.

Who says Democrats have the big tent party? ;)

[Boomerang Diddle]

144. K & R!

[Sugarcoated]

145. Aw, man

I just don't get the meanness from some non-believers.

Good for you gauguin57, maybe I will, too.

[proteus_lives]

147. And the dark, ugly side of DU surfaces.

:puke: I can't believe so many so-called "liberals/Democrats/progressives" are pissing on a person because they have religious faith.

It's sad.

Gauguin57 thank you for embracing the tenets of your faith, whatever that faith might be. Does pray help? I don't know and guess what? All the snide little boys and girls mocking don't know either. That's one of the reasons they're acting so cruel.

Good thoughts and intentions are always welcome!

:pals:

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

170. Take the same anti-religious approach to black folks...

and you're a racist.

Apply the same rhetoric to gays and lesbians, and you're a homophobe.

Say similar things, limited specifically to Jews, and you're an anti-semite.

If you've been around DU long enough, you know that religious intolerance is welcome here.

[PassingFair]

179. Because we don't applaud prayer, we are "anti-religious"?

Seriously?

You confuse the belief with the believer.
It is possible to disagree with the practices
without CONDEMNING the practitioners.

No one's calling the OP a bad person, just
doubting his methods.

[Name removed]

183. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

215. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PVnRT]

255. I didn't realize people chose to gay or black

[Duke Newcombe]

292. So if people "choose" the the thing that they're harassed for..

the the bigotry and assholishness is all good, then. Thanks for clearing that up for us.

[PassingFair]

176. Why did he post it? Are we supposed to be patting him on the back? If I win the LOTTO....

I'm giving HALF of it to you!

Thank me in advance!

Aren't I selfless and wonderful!!!

(Although I never buy any tickets)

[mscuedawg]

223. Well said... eom

[musicblind]

153. Please ignore the insecure 13 year old haters who are proving themselves not to be progessives

by bashing your sincere post with no tolerance.

As a gay, anti-death penalty, single payer supporting, Christian, I hope you continue to send Obama all the positive energy you want.

And if someone doesn't believe in prayer, then more power to you... feel free to not pray. I do not judge anyone's religion as that person does not harm others, and as long as that person is not intolerant of other peaceful people.

[gauguin57]

155. I'd like to say thank you to the folks who understood what I was trying to say ...

... and stood up for my right to say it. And my right to say I pray for the president without being made out to be some kind of freak.

I was so depressed to read those comments earlier. I was even thinking about taking a break from DU, because I was just so sad and exhausted over all the rancor I've read on this board in so many threads (about healthcare reform, in particular).

But many of you have restored my faith, so to speak. So thank you, fellow DUers. See you tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow.

[xultar]

182. Apparently being progressive means, being a bully to anyone who doesn't think

like you.

Oh wait, sounds like a freeper.

Apparently being a progressive means putting down anyone who doesn't think like you.

Oh wait, that sounds like a freeper too.

That's why I'm a Liberal because I think we genuinely care for others and their views and try to understand them. Doesn't mean that we should adopt the views or even like them, but just understand them.

[Sugarcoated]

191. I agree.

It is a huge contradiction that a Democrat would be so intolerant, but, bullies are everywhere, even in the atheism movement. I call these derisive bully type of atheists fundie-atheists because they seem to take such pleasure in thumping believers on the head with their beliefs. Another similar trait is they feel the need to convince others they are right. Underlying the bullying is a need to feel they are superior . . . just like the fundamental Christians.

Live and let live, no need to be mean or ridicule others.

[rufus dog]

157. Come on people!

What if a DUer said "I think positive thoughts about Obama daily, with all of these whack jobs I think I will double that!"

My reaction would be good for you, and that is the same reaction I have to guagin57. If it makes him/her happy then fine. I was not told to pray for Obama daily, I was not told that if I didn't I would fry in Hell, so why would I take offense?

[GivePeaceAchance]

159. It's nice thing to do, but it's bizarre that we have to do that for a person that ...

is so clearly a good man with honorable intentions. While the bad guys are getting idolized the world doesn't make a lick of sense to me no more. I'll just hope more that the truth will over come and sanity returns, but definitely every prayer is needed. I'm nixed race and I never get upset by racism anymore it's more wasted energy. It mostly just very silly it's like saying I like the green candy over the red candy they all taste the same, likewise with people we're all the same in the end.

Their racism mostly about a sense of superiority, but even the bible say only the meek will inherit the earth but just in that sense racism is completely wrong. It's all about the ego with is a destructive force if untamed intellectually and physically. It's why a lot of celebs become a danger to themselves the endless praise empowers the destructive of our personaility, but not for those that manage to keep a sense of groundedness. "Keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars." which is a wise phrase.

[Douglas Carpenter]

160. good for you!!! It cannot possibly hurt!

[KansasVoter]

161. 40 recs! This place is really nutty at times!

[Sugarcoated]

193. Our President prays

and he'd probably be very pleased that others are praying for him.

[GivePeaceAchance]

163. I'm not religious but I don't think we should isolate people who happen to be religious..

from feeling they can be part of the Democratic party. It is a big tent party. Just because the right give a bad representation of Christianity doesn't mean everyone following it is bad. We can believe differently, no need to ridicule those that believe different, there's a lot of Christians out there. I won't put off any that want to join the more tolerant party.

[AspenRose]

196. Thank you.

[R. P. McMurphy]

168. k & r . . .

because of negative comments in another thread about this post.

[CBR]

171. I am surprised at these replies. I am agnostic but I

say to each his own. Keep going Gauguin!!

[Odin2005]

173. I'm not a religious person, but if I were I would be praying for his safety every day.

If anyone even tries to assassinate him we will have Civil War 2 on our hands. :scared:

[Bill McBlueState]

177. Is it working?

Can you tell whether it's working?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

184. He's still alive, isn't he?

So far, so good.

[Bill McBlueState]

178. It's odd

that a thread containing a mere inquiry into the effectiveness of this approach became so contentious that it had to be locked.

When someone asks whether contacting your representatives has an effect on the political process, people often say "yes" and respond with an anecdote. When someone asks whether praying has an effect on the political process, it's considered an attack. The defensiveness is an answer of its own, I think.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

281. That answer being "no."

[pleah]

180. Good luck with that. n/t

[southernyankeebelle]

194. I do too. To many people give him the horns. I thank you for praying. We all could use some prays

for this country not to be taken over by the wackos of the religious right.

[Butch350]

198. I pray for this damn country. Cause it don't stand for what it use to.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

199. if you believe that we are energy...

and that we are all connected, as energy or vibration...

You don't have to be christian to send out prayer.

Thoughts, words and deeds are energy, or vibration.

What we send out, we are.

Worth considering wrt all the nastiness here.

[Beacool]

204. That's a nice sentiment.

Don't let the naysayers stop you. I pray regularly too and also attend church on Sundays if I'm in town.

God Bless!!!

:hi:

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

208. "Overnight I became a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can't see the sun at night.

But first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I could mention, I can actually see the sun. I'm big on that. If I can see something, I don't know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know? So everyday I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat, light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we're not setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us.

Sun worship is fairly simple. There's no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry, no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, and we don't have a special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. And the best thing about the sun, it never tells me I'm unworthy. Doesn't tell me I'm a bad person who needs to be saved. Hasn't said an unkind word. Treats me fine. So, I worship the sun. But, I don't pray to the sun. Know why? I wouldn't presume on our friendship. It's not polite.

I've often thought people treat God rather rudely, don't you? Asking trillions and trillions of prayers every day. Asking and pleading and begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It's not nice. And it's no way to treat a friend.

But people do pray, and they pray for a lot of different things, you know, your sister needs an operation on her crotch, your brother was arrested for defecating in a mall. But most of all, you'd really like to fuck that hot little redhead down at the convenience store. You know, the one with the eyepatch and the clubfoot? Can you pray for that? I think you'd have to. And I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about the Divine Plan?

Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn't in God's Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a Divine Plan. What's the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and fuck up Your Plan?

And here's something else, another problem you might have: Suppose your prayers aren't answered. What do you say? "Well, it's God's will." "Thy Will Be Done." Fine, but if it's God's will, and He's going to do what He wants to anyway, why the fuck bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me! Couldn't you just skip the praying part and go right to His Will? It's all very confusing.

So to get around a lot of this, I decided to worship the sun. But, as I said, I don't pray to the sun. You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Two reasons: First of all, I think he's a good actor, okay? To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't fuck around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with.

For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog, Joe Pesci straightened that cocksucker out with one visit. It's amazing what you can accomplish with a simple baseball bat.

So I've been praying to Joe for about a year now. And I noticed something. I noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half the time I get what I want, half the time I don't. Same as God, 50-50. Same as the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe, the wishing well and the rabbit's foot, same as the Mojo Man, same as the Voodoo Lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing the goat's testicles, it's all the same: 50-50. So just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself."

George Carlin

[DeSwiss]

263. Thank you for that!

[spoony]

211. DU is a cesspool because of the sort of people bashing the OP.

It isn't the least bit fun to be at, because it is infested with assholes.

[Thickasabrick]

218. I think this is more of a lounge post. Prayers between people and

their own version of the spaghetti monster should be private. God doesn't like when people try to get attention by bragging about praying to him. I think that's somewhere in the bible, not exact words but basically same meaning.

[Sugarcoated]

225. He's not bragging

he's saying he's concerned for the president and wants to do what he believes is something positive to protect him. Is the President bragging when he talks about his practicing the act of prayer?

[AspenRose]

240. And for the umpteenth time, the OP is not a Christian.

So bible quoting is moot.

[Why Syzygy]

245. Who are YOU promoting by

objecting to someone discussing prayer? Who gets the attention? Not YOU? It's okay for you, but not God. ic

[gauguin57]

220. What I've learned in the past 24 hours (since I innocently posted this thread) ... (please read #3)

Here's what I learned after posting what I assure everyone was meant to be the most innocuous post in the world ... merely stating that, because I pray for the president, I'm praying more these days because of the threatening climate created by the teabaggers and their hate and their guns:

1) You post something. A sh*tstorm comes down on your head. You realize the editing period for the OP is over, so you post a few more times, giving more information about yourself that proves the purpose of your post was "x" not "y" (in my case ... I simply meant to say, hey, if you pray, or if you believe in sending out positive energy on behalf of this president, maybe you could redouble your efforts because things are BAD out there, people.). You post that, of course you write letters and make phone calls and volunteer for the local Democratic party. You just happen to pray for the president in addition to that. You post that you're not a Christian, Muslim or Jew -- that you don't go to church -- that you're not a member of any organized religion. You just believe in god, and pray as part of that belief.

You don't claim any special relationship, or influence, with any given deity. You make it clear you're posting out of concern for the president and our country, not for the purpose of calling attention to yourself or your faith. You say nothing about religion whatsoever (in case some folks don't realize it ... prayer doesn't have to have anything to do with "religion" per se; I consider myself a person of faith, but not "religious"). You believe the tenents of any given organized religion should be divorced from laws and politics (which has nothing at all to do with wishing the president well on a spiritual level, which is all you're really doing when you're praying for him).

BUT ...

2) People either don't read the additional posts or they choose to ignore them so they can continue to make false assumptions about you and hurl nasty, NASTY, REALLYREALLYNASTY insults. At you and those who support you.

3) THE BEST THING I WAS REMINDED OF: There are always great people in the liberal/progressive movement who believe that everyone who wants to inform, discuss, debate in the realm of Democratic/progressive/liberal politics is welcome here. Today, I'm feeling like the atheists and agnostics who encouraged me to do what feels right to me, as long as it's positive, are the heart and soul of the Democratic party and the progressive movement. You guys (and the believers who encouraged me, as well), rock. Those of you who disagree with me, and made your position known without being nasty or insulting ... you also rock.

4) I have learned to try to be more sensitive, myself, about other people's differences. For example, I've been known to slam the hierarchy of the Catholic church (in large part because of they way they treat women). I'm a woman who grew up in that church, and have my issues. I try to make it clear that I'm not insulting individual Catholics or their faith ... just the patriarchy that will not allow change (or women in leadership). HOWEVER: I'm going to watch myself in the future, because I can feel what cruel words about one's faith can do. I'll be more cognizant if I'm being nasty in my posts in the future.

A POSTSCRIPT: I don't think I have ever posted anything that had to do with my private faith, except to offer prayers to other DUers who have lost loved ones. Which, I've noticed, a lot of people do here without having their heads taken off. I was moved to post what I did because I was struck by how frightened I am becoming because of all the teabagger hate -- the guns being carried to presidential events -- the fomenting of murderous hate against Barack Obama by the right-wing media clowns. I posted in the "presidential" forum because my post was about the president's safety ... not about religion/theology.

I am done posting on my original thread. Every time I've posted, the vitriol seems to get stunningly worse. An innocent thread bred other threads of intolerance.
I had the purest of intentions, and I didn't mean to open a gaping wound that demonstrates, in microcosm, just how much we've been at each other's throats in this place. Can't we disagree without tearing each other down? I've been on this board a long time, and I depend on you people to help me stay informed (I see articles here I miss in my other reading), and to debate with me in a civil way so we can come to some understanding and work on this country's problems together.

Despite how bad I've felt over the last 24 hours ... I love you guys.

Please let the thread die so we can save our strength for the work ahead.

[Critters2]

221. Why did you post that you're not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew?

Do you believe the piling on would have been appropriate if you had been a member of one of those faiths? Those people can be thrown under the bus, but not you?

[DevonRex]

222. And the nastiness continues. Shame on you. nt

[JohnnyLib2]

224. Good.

[cherokeeprogressive]

226. I'll throw in with ya, even though we may not believe in the same "Higher Power".

And I would also say a hearty Fuck You to all the people on this thread who would ridicule your wish that President Obama remain safe, and your method of expressing that wish/hope.

Certainly not a SINGLE one of those haters have ever picked up a penny and thought it "lucky", nor have they ever done something like step over a crack in the sidewalk. Surely they've never witnessed a "falling star" with someone else and said "Did you make a wish?" In their whole lives they've never heard the muse in their head say "Starlight, star bright... First star I see tonight..." because well, they're so much more intellectual than that.

They'll never tell their children to "Make a wish!" after lighting the candles on their birthday cakes, if they deign to give them birthday cakes at all.

What a cold and antiseptic life it must be when one comes to the belief that a prayer is a thing to ridicule and exists only in the shadow of their giant intellect.

[DevonRex]

229. Hear hear!!! Great post. nt

[Big Blue Marble]

231. I concur: a wonderful post.

It is so sad that arrogance and contempt have a home here on DU.

[CitizenLeft]

234. FANTASTIC post.

:yourock:

I applaud you.

What a cold and antiseptic life it must be when one comes to the belief that a prayer is a thing to ridicule and exists only in the shadow of their giant intellect.

Perfect. Thank you, and thank you again.

Gauguin, if you come back to your thread (I wouldn't blame you if you didn't), big hugs to you. :hug: And also to all of those under fire who merely wish for the safety of the man they voted for in the face of the most virulent, open racism we've seen in decades. Where the hell have we come to when THAT has to be defended with over 100 posts?

[Why Syzygy]

236. +1

:applause:

[ChadwickHenryWard]

246. Cold and antiseptic?

I can never understand people that look at this universe, filled with unfathomable splendor and wonders beyond imagining, and "That's not enough, I have to make up childish, superstitious bullshit to keep myself entertained." I never do any of that crap because it's pure bullshit, and your anti-intellectualism does not make me consider any of it more favorably.

I, for one, am also concerned for the President's safety. This country is populated by cretinous mouth breathers, and a staggering number of them wish the President harm. Maybe if we didn't teach our children at a young age to be so readily accepting of outrageously false bullshit, these people wouldn't be demanding to his birth certificate or shouting about death panels.

[cherokeeprogressive]

248. Wrap post #243 around the index finger of your right hand.

When you have it on good and tight, stick that finger up your ass and give with a wiggle.

Afterward, find some cold antiseptic and rinse your finger really well.

[ChadwickHenryWard]

250. Well, I see when I'm beat.

Your response is too mature for me to handle.

[Uzybone]

233. This is bullcrap

I'm agnostic (I couldn't give a shit what/who was out there or what/who believes) but to slam this poster simply for praying is beyond contempt.

And moving this topic to another forum is a shitty thing to do as well. Anti religious bigotry is bigotry all the same.

[XOKCowboy]

238. Well said. I'm an agnostic bordering on athiest and DU treated this poster terribly

She didn't impugn anybodies beliefs or proselytize in any way and got completely slammed. I expect to have my beliefs respected by people of faith and in return I respect their beliefs until they try to impose them on me.

I also share her concern for our President and commend her for doing what she sees as best.

[ZombieHorde]

239. "moving this topic to another forum is a shitty thing to do"

Why is moving a religious thread to the religious forum a shitty thing to do?

[Sugarcoated]

243. The President prays

[mamaleah]

258. And I am sure that might upset some here. nt

[rrneck]

253. Interesting thread.

It doesn't matter who you pray to. There is no reason to believe there is anyone listening except you. And you are the one that most needs to hear the prayer.

Expressions of faith motivate people to do the right thing, or at least they should. Sounds you are going about it right.

Carry on.

[mamaleah]

257. You are brave for posting this. The lynch mob is out in full force I see.

We might not practice the same religion, but every day I pray not only for our country but for our President as well.

And if that upsets the anti-religious, they can go seek some professional counseling.

[onager]

259. Thanks, but I'd rather read the "Kerry Election Prayer Thread" from 2004

That one worked out really well.

:rofl:

Signed,

Your Local Fundamentalist Atheist

[laconicsax]

260. +1

[mamaleah]

268. LOL

Yeah, the thought that it may pain you that the President is not an atheist makes me giggle.

[onager]

272. Giggling is better than self-righteous whining, I guess.

From your post above:

You are brave for posting this. The lynch mob is out in full force I see.

Posting poutrage over religious opinions on the internet is not exactly my definition of "brave."

I grew up in the American South, where people faced real lynch mobs.

Judging strictly from your posts in this thread, you strike me as one of those people who would define the statement "I'm not sure a god exists" as "religious persecution."

[jonnyblitz]

278. naaa, the reality based folk aren't the ones that need

counseling. we aren't the one mumbling to santa claus in the sky with our wishlists.

[armyowalgreens]

264. ehh... I don't agree that your prayer is doing anything, but maybe I'm wrong.

Hopefully I'm completely full of shit and there is a God and that God is protecting Obama.


But, then again, that also means that I probably have a front row seat in hell waiting for me. Or maybe it's the Dante version and I get to chill in purgatory with all the godless philosophers. I'd be okay with that.

[TZ]

273. I see the bigots on BOTH SIDES are out

The ones who mock people for the religious beliefs and the ALL ATHIESTS ARE UNHAPPY FUNDIES group as well.
If you want to pray for Obama, fine. But a lot of people think its nonsense or won't do anything. Fine. There are actually some religious beliefs that think its arrogant to announce this sort of thing in a public/secular setting. Fine.
But lets not broad brush any groups for the idiotic comments of a few okay?
Considering how many of us also have heard about people praying for Obama's death, I think you can understand why there is a religous backlash here as well. Do I think its right. No. But telling those of us who think prayer is ineffective as soulless and unhappy is just as bad as the "fundie atheists" who attacked this poster.

[jonnyblitz]

279. at least we do it to their faces and not behind their backs in the

SKEPTIC'S forum like "SOME" hypocrites around here...*cough*.

[Evoman]

275. It's probably a good idea. All the conservatives praying against him need to be cancelled out.

We have to pray at the right wavelength though, or the prayers won't cancel out and instead, there will be constructive interference where the amplitude of the prayers double. What happens then is anybodies guess :scared:

[ChadwickHenryWard]

280. Your post made me laugh.

Hard.

[ZombieHorde]

282. Everyone who has watched Ghostbusters knows to only cross the streams in an emergency. nt

[sspeilbergfan90]

283. Ok. Whatever floats your boat.

[NotTheist]

285. Hmm?

Which god do you pray to?
How are you praying?
Are your prayers always done the same way?
If not why not?
What sort of results are you getting?
How do you know these resuts are related to your prayer and not the muslim who lives next to me?

[Name removed]

302. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.