Foes try to nullify election of atheist in N. Carolina

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

http://www.examiner.com/x-8947-LA-Atheism-Examiner~y2009m12d8-Foes-try-to-nullify-election-of-atheist-in-N-Carolina

On Nov. 3, the voters of Asheville, North Carolina spoke and elected writer and builder Cecil Bothwell to the city council. Now, some who opposed his election are saying that he can't hold public office. Why? Because he's an atheist.

Article 6, section 8 of the state constitution says: “The following persons shall be disqualified for office: First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God.”

H. K. Edgerton, a former Asheville NAACP president best known for promoting "Southern heritage" by publicly dressing in a Confederate uniform and displaying a Confederate flag, said, “I'm not saying that Cecil Bothwell is not a good man, but if he's an atheist, he's not eligible to serve in public office, according to the state constitution.”

(...)

According to constitutional lawyers such as Bob Orr, executive director of the N.C. Institute for Constitutional Law, there's no question to be resolved. The US Constitution, with its First Amendment guarantee of religious freedom and Article VI's “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States,” trumps any state restriction. (more at link)

But, of course, it's Christians who are oppressed. :eyes:

[niyad]

1. apart from the sheer ignorant stupidity of this, I am still trying to understand how a chapter

president of the NAACP could wrap himself in a confederate flag and uniform. can someone explain this?

[drm604]

2. That is indeed weird.

Check out H. K. Edgerton's Wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._K._Edgerton

H. K. Edgerton is a black Southern heritage activist and former president of the NAACP's Asheville, North Carolina, branch. His most notable action to date was a march from North Carolina to Texas to build awareness of Southern culture and history. Edgerton runs a website, Southern Heritage 411, which portrays some of his views and research on Black Confederate participation in the American Civil War.

In December 1998, Edgerton was suspended from the NAACP after he approached Kirk Lyons, an attorney who had represented Ku Klux Klan leader Louis Beam in a 1988 conspiracy trial, to assist the Asheville NAACP in a lawsuit over housing policy. According to the NAACP, his suspension was due to non-compliance with the organization's rules when the Asheville chapter fell into debt. In 1999, he was voted out of office.

Edgerton is now the chairman of the board of directors of the Southern Legal Resource Center. He is also an associate member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans

Also check out his website: http://www.southernheritage411.com

Southern Heritage 411 Inc. is a corporation founded to inform the public about Southern Heritage from the perspective of the hundreds of thousands of black people who love and support the South, its people, its customs, and its history.

Mental illness, perhaps? :crazy:

[BurtWorm]

4. National Association for the Advancement of Conservative Putzes

[get the red out]

10. Is he the one?

Is he the one black guy at the Sarah Palin rallies? :shrug:

[FBaggins]

3. There's no case here.

Even if the state constitution could pass federal constitutional muster, the state constitution doesn't say he can't be an atheist... it says he can't deny the being of Almighty God.

So don't. Say "I don't know" or "I don't believe anything about the subject"... just don't say "I know there is no such animal".

[RaleighNCDUer]

6. A hoop through which he need not jump, because the state constitution

is WRONG. And will be so ruled.

[PVnRT]

18. So, you support religious tests then

Why should he have to deny himself because of an unconstitutional religious test requirement?

[FBaggins]

20. Not at all!

Just saying that he doesn't have to go through the hassle.

You could easily find state judges (even perhaps up their supreme court) who feel that they are bound by the state constitution... so he would have to wait until it got into a federal court for a reversal.

The US Supreme court avoided ruling directly on this question the last time it came up.

Unless he WANTS to fight this fight for the sake of fighting it (and not to hold the office to which he was elected)... his best option may just be to say "I haven't done that".

On edit - I'm also not sure that I trust the USSC to necessarily rule correctly. KWIM?

[struggle4progress]

25. ... In an earlier email to the Asheville newspaper, Bothwell explained that the exact wording of the

North Carolina constitution wouldn't apply to him anyway. "I am not 'an avowed atheist' ... I don't 'deny the being of Almighty God.' I simply consider the question of denial or acceptance irrelevant" ...

N.C. law rejects atheists; voters don't
By David Waters
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2009/12/atheist_swears_affirms_oath_in_nc.html

So, although I agree with you that such religious test requirements are unconstitutional, and that there would seems to be no good reason for Bothwell himself to take the position FBaggins suggested in #3 above, nevertheless -- that is exactly the position Bothwell took

[sinkingfeeling]

5. Note to H.K. Edgerton: The US Constitution trumps any state one.

[FBaggins]

8. Not in all cases

but almost certainly in this one.

[rd_kent]

7. I already stated a thread about this in GD.......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7187469

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

9. I know, I know. I just wanted to rub salt, if you know what I mean. -nt

[DeSwiss]

11. My state has the same stupid law.

And I've seen this guy on the nets before!!!! He dresses up in these Confederate soldier's uniforms. He's even got a few lines in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._K._Edgerton">Wiki

Here's a few pics:




- It's a free country.....

K&R

[Historic NY]

12. if atheist believes in the non-existence then he has a belief....

thats not a denial.

[Meshuga]

13. Hopefully

This movement to nullify the election will backfire as the article is unconstitutional.

[struggle4progress]

19. I doubt whether H.K. Edgerton qualifies as evidence of a "movement" in Asheville NC

[Meshuga]

23. If this is just noise from one person

Then the article in the NC constitution is meaningless. Which is a good thing. However, it would be great to have the NC constitution amended before it is misused.

[struggle4progress]

24. The article in the NC constitution has been meaningless for nearly fifty years, ever since

TORCASO v. WATKINS, 367 U.S. 488 (1961)
367 U.S. 488
APPEAL FROM THE COURT OF APPEALS OF MARYLAND.
No. 373.
Argued April 24, 1961.
Decided June 19, 1961.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=367&invol=488

I, of course, agree that it would be ideal to amend the NC Constitution to remove the provision

[struggle4progress]

14. New City Council members seated; Newman vice mayor (9 Dec)

Joel Burgess • December 9, 2009
... Three new members took the oath of office Tuesday to join the seven-member Asheville City Council. The new governing body also unanimously elected a new vice mayor, picking two-term Councilman Brownie Newman to replace Jan Davis, who held the post for two years. Davis will continue serving as a regular member of the council. New council members Cecil Bothwell, Esther Manheimer and Gordon Smith and re-elected Mayor Terry Bellamy, who was also sworn in Tuesday, campaigned on issues ranging from improving public transit to finishing overhauls of city programs ...
http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20091209/NEWS01/912090328

[struggle4progress]

15. Kirk Lyons and Suspended NAACP Officer Collaborate (December 23, 1998)

Kirk Lyons wrote a December 16, 1998 letter to various organizations in the Asheville, NC area (including WNCCEIB) asking them to join with him and "Chairman" H.K. Edgerton in forming the "Asheville Fair Housing Alliance" ... The Asheville Citizen-Times reported on December 19 that Edgerton, who describes himself as President of the local NAACP Branch, is working with Lyons because he does not have money to challenge the City of Asheville's housing practices ... The legitimacy of Edgerton using the title of President is questionable since WNCCEIB has learned that the fall election that should have taken place has not been held and members may be withholding payment of dues. Moreover, according to the State office, the officers of the Asheville NAACP Branch are suspended "until further notice" for non-payment of branch dues ... Edgerton and Lyons created controversy on March 28, 1998 when the Asheville Citizen-Times printed a picture of Lyons, Lyons' assistant Neil Payne and Edgerton wearing hood-mimicking napkins on their heads and joking about the KKK. The Citizen-Times editorialized that Edgerton was discrediting himself, the NAACP, and everyone who had been a victim of the KKK ... UPDATE: In January 1999, the State Office of the NAACP held a re-organization meeting of the Asheville Branch. New elections resulted in H.K. Edgerton being defeated for President ... http://www.main.nc.us/wncceib/98LyonsNAACP.htm

WNCCEIB Letter to Franklin Press dated May 5, 2000
May 5, 2000
The Editor
The Franklin Press
PO Box 350
Franklin, North Carolina 28734
Re: H.K. Edgerton's Connections With White Supremacists Very Strange
To the Editor:
It doesn't get much stranger than the spectacle of an African-American former President of the Asheville Branch of the NAACP carrying a Confederate Flag in front of Franklin High School just as the KKK has done. Yet that is what Franklin residents have seen in recent weeks. For us in Asheville who have known H.K. Edgerton for years, that spectacle has moved beyond strange to a kind of pathetic side show. Two years ago Edgerton's hanging out with area white supremacists was the final straw for an NAACP chapter that had dwindled to almost nothing in response to Edgerton's ineffective leadership. Even the Asheville Citizen-Times called for him to step down. The State NAACP came in, suspended Edgerton, and reorganized the chapter into what is now one of the most active and vibrant in the State ... http://main.nc.us/wncceib/lyHKFranklin550.htm

Intelligence Report
Summer 2000
In the Lyons Den
Despite his extremism, Kirk Lyons, a white supremacist lawyer whose clients have been a 'Who's Who' of the radical right, is becoming the attorney for the neo-Confederate movement ... No matter that he has attended and spoken at a slew of white supremacist events around the nation. No matter that he has walked at the head of a Klan parade, lionized Adolf Hitler as "probably the most misunderstood man in German history," and reportedly proposed carving America up into racial mini-states ... http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=251

Intelligence Report
Winter 2002
Neo-Confederates
... Since the late '90s, H.K. Edgerton has earned local notoriety by staging one-man protests of Confederate "heritage violations," such as attempts to remove the Confederate battle flag from public schools ... Edgerton has become a darling of the white-supremacist wing of the "heritage" movement ... http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=81

Intelligence Report
Summer 2007
Neo-Confederates
Lonely Black Neo-Confederate Furls His Flag
The neo-Confederate movement isn't known for its racial diversity, but there long has been one dedicated black man willing to fight for the Southern cause: H.K. Edgerton. A constant fixture at protests in support of Confederate symbols, Edgerton at one point walked from his home in Asheville, N.C., to Austin, Texas, dressed all the while in Confederate gray and toting a battle flag. In March, after being accused by white neo-Confederate colleagues of financial improprieties, Edgerton quit the fight and furled his flag ... http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=791

[struggle4progress]

17. Neo-Confederate Kirk Lyons on race, immigration and what could be his final flag case

12 AUG 2009 • by Dick J. Reavis
... Though also middle-aged, one of the men, known to everybody by the initials H.K., didn't fit the mold. Instead of a suit coat and tie—the attire judges require of adult males in federal courtrooms—H.K. was wearing a Confederate uniform. His stories weren't about soldiering days, either, but about his brushes with civilian law officers in 2002-03, when he marched from Asheville, N.C., to Austin, Texas, as a standard bearer for the Confederate battle flag. The trek had taken four months. Unlike the other men, H.K. is not a member of the Sons. He hasn't been able to satisfy its chief requirement that applicants cite one or more ancestors who wore the Confederate gray. H.K. Edgerton is the defrocked president of a western North Carolina chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. He is black. Sitting on the first-floor bench, Edgerton told the others that being barred from the courtroom because of his Confederate getup didn't sit well with him. He went upstairs to query the judge, who was not available. So Edgerton knocked on the door of a room for attorneys and their clients to ask the counsel of the fellow Life Member whose arguments the others had come to hear, Kirk D. Lyons of Black Mountain, a small town 15 miles east of Asheville. At Lyons' urging, Edgerton changed into a dark suit ... The matter at hand was a suit originally brought to enjoin the school district at Latta, a South Carolina town about 25 miles northeast of Florence, from banning items of clothing bearing Confederate symbols. The suit arose out of a 2004 incident in which a teacher at Latta Middle School ordered student Candice Hardwick to turn her Confederate-flag T-shirt inside out or don a T-shirt supplied by the school. The teacher's order was in keeping with school policies banning "disruptive" clothing, under which Malcolm X T-shirts had also been forbidden. When Hardwick refused to comply, the teacher sent her to a detention hall for the rest of the day ... http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A399347

Federal judge sides with S.C. district in Confederate-flag case
By The Associated Press
09.17.09
COLUMBIA, S.C. — ... Hardwick's attorneys argued that the teen — who was forced to change clothes, turn shirts inside-out and was suspended twice for Confederate-themed clothing in middle school — felt that a ban on wearing the Confederate emblem violated her right to free speech ... In his 33-page ruling, U.S. District Judge Terry Wooten wrote that district officials, fearing possible disruptions if Confederate-themed clothing were allowed in the racially diverse schools, acted reasonably in banning such items ... http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=22077

[struggle4progress]

16. Getting Testy: Asheville Agitators Want To Deny Council Seat To Atheist (AU)

December 8, 2009

... In 1961, Roy Torcaso was appointed to the position of notary public in Maryland. He was ultimately denied the commission and ousted from office, however, due to his refusal to declare a belief in God.

In deciding his case, the Supreme Court unanimously held that Article 37 of the Maryland Declaration of Rights, which required a “declaration of belief in the existence of God” as a qualification for “any office of profit or trust,” was demonstrably unconstitutional, violating the religious liberty clauses of the First Amendment.

“There is, and can be, no dispute about the purpose or effect of the…requirement before us,” wrote Justice Black almost 50 years ago. “It sets up a religious test which was designed to, and if valid, does bar every person who refuses to declare a belief in God from holding a public office, the power and authority of the State of Maryland thus is put on the side of one particular sort of believers — those who are willing to say they believe in the existence of God.”

Black concluded, “We repeat and again reaffirm that neither a state nor the Federal Government can constitutionally force a person ‘to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion’” ...

http://blog.au.org/2009/12/08/getting-testy-asheville-agitators-want-to-deny-council-seat-to-atheist/

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

21. Seems you're in the perfect position to give us a good view of the case.

Was it mentioned in local TV news?

[struggle4progress]

22. Asheville is not terribly close to the Triangle: it's about three hours down the interstate;

local city council issues usually aren't reported except locally; and I hardly watch TV nowadays

Search current news for this "controversy" and you'll find H.K. mentioned in the Asheville press. Nobody else is interested. I've lived in NC for twenty years, and I never heard of H.K. until today. I'd guess he made the news back here a few years ago, based on my memories of something my brother-in-law once said to me about seeing a "black confederate" on TV

Frankly, BS like this doesn't fly here in the Triangle. We may have the highest per capita Ph.D. rate in the US; we have several world-class universities; we have several top law schools; and the Triangle is overall reliably blue. Nobody wants to waste time thinking about an isolated lunatic who threw himself into the neo-confederate camp after he got booted from the NAACP. Bless his pointy little head: the guy is nuts, and I'm not worried he's going to carry the day on anything