God's plan....

[PCIntern]

OK, it's been a long Saturday morning and I'm tired. tired after a six-day week, tired of people's bullshit.

Today, a lady was telling me how her co-worker had left the building right down the street here, and was hit by a turning Fed-Ex truck. she was catapulted about 25 feet or so and 'miraculously' landed in a pile of old blankets and sleeping bags which a couple of homeless guys normally inhabit. She sustained substantial injuries, but it would have been much worse, apparently, had she not landed on this 'cushion'. So the lady today, stated that the victim was 'blessed'. I couldn't help it...I asked her, with all seriousness and humility, "Please don't take any offense, but wouldn't the fact that she was hit by a truck sort of mitigate against the notion of her being particularly blessed by landing relatively 'softly'?" The lady gave me a polite argument why I was wrong, and that we just don't argue with God's plan." I told her that I had no argument, but that it really wasn't all THAT good a day for the young lady, but OK, I understand."

I made her laugh when I said to her, "Look at it from the vantage point of the Fed-Ex driver: he was driving along and the next thing you know - WHAM! - he hits a lady and sends her flying through the air BUT she lands on rags and is relatively unhurt - at least not dead - and he lives to maybe drive another day. Certainly HE thought he was blessed...until....until about 150 lawyers came rushing out from the building which she was exiting - The Philadelphia Public Defender's Office, to offer advice, help and probably, Counsel - at least that of their best friends' practicing personal injury."

So it got me to thinking: OK, OK...there is no such thing as Evolution, all right? God put man on this Earth and for some reason known only to Him, placed a fossil record and falsified the notion of Carbon Dating, just for His own reasons...and OK OK, Methuselah lived to 969 years which would have taken him through all of these eras and he may have been living about when Jesus was, who only lived thirty-something years and probably hitched rides on the backs of brontosauri, as he toured, and OK OK, although there were Babylonian pottery samples known to be over 4000 years old in the museum in Baghdad before it was overrun by 'liberated' Iraqis, maybe that happened because God made a mistake...no, sorry, an error in judgement...no, sorry, a misplaced vase, and accidentally left some things around which were not trampled by Triceratops and made right after the Creation, while Adam and Eve's grandchildren were getting to know each other in the Biblical Sense. Boy THAT's a weird thought...and where did those other towns come from so quickly after Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden of Eden? Obviously, they just appeared, since it was in the Plan to not evolve as a civilization, but to just 'appear'...out of nowhere.

As the grandfather weepily said in the film Moonstruck: "I'm so confused."

[Lars39]

1. So God made those guys homeless so she'd have somewhere to land?

good grief

[PCIntern]

2. Absitively...Good point...

that hadn't even occured to me....

[rasputin1952]

9. I have often heard people say, "there will always be poor among you"...

My standard answer is, "yeah, but do there have to be so many, what have ypou done to alleviate the problem/" I never get an answer...:(

[Ozymanithrax]

3. Actually, I was told that the Devil created the fossil record and all the...

false signs that lead people to think that there is evolution. You see, the Omnipotent, loving, benevolent God allowed the Devil loose among humans to destroy their lives and take the majority of human souls to hell where said devil can torture them for all of eternity by the will of said Omnipotent, loving, benevolent God. The Omnipotent, loving, benevolent God created billions of souls just so they could be tortured and a small percentage of those billions will go to heaven and spend eternity as part of a choir singing praises for that omnipotent, loving, benevolent God.

If that makes sense to you, then understaning God's plan should be a piece of cake.

[PCIntern]

4. It's like a script from a Monty Python TV show...

isn't it?

surreal...

[Ozymanithrax]

5. I never considered that God my be a member of Monty Python's flying circus...

but it fits.

[PCIntern]

6. I like the unrec I just got....

affirms my faith that I'm still here at DU...

[Ozymanithrax]

12. I just recommend you...incase it was my disrespect that brought it on...

I occasionally recommend a topic but never unrec.

[rasputin1952]

7. I worked for a woman that had some serious misconceptions...

whenever something didn't turn out precisely the way she wanted, it was "a test from God".One day, a gentleman was $5 short on the rent, and cold not pay it for 3 days, she went on about "personal responsibility" and a couple of Biblical passages about being "a burden upon others". She did this with the door to the office open and for all within earshot to hear, I was actually embarrassed by the whole thing.

After the man left, looking humiliated, (he was in his 60s and was there because this was low-income housing), she came out and said to me, "that was a test from God", to which I replied, "in that case, you just failed the test." She looked at me like I was from Mars, no one ever contested her before.

I went down, gave the guy $5 and told him to go up and pay the bill. I asked how he was on food, and he said he was OK. 3 days later, he saw me, gave me back the $5 and a Pepsi...normally, I would have declined the $5, but he was so happy to pay it back, I felt obliged...:)

If it was a "test", I think he and I "passed"...I hope someday, my former employer will have learned that lesson...:hi:

[rasputin1952]

8. Oops, posted in wrong spot...

:blush:

[HysteryDiagnosis]

10. God plans to put sleeping bags and blankets on the front

of FedEx trucks during the rapture. I'm almost sure of it.

[The_Commonist]

11. You obviously saw this earlier...

http://toptenproofs.com/article_dinosaurs.php

Yabba Dabba Doo!!!

[Iggo]

13. It was God's plan that she get nailed by a truck and end up in the hospital?

God sucks.

[blueworld]

14. Why do you keep judging God by human standards & behavior

and then being shocked that you're confused? I find that confusing.

The religious right of any denomination doesn't speak for God any more than I do or you do. I don't find that particularly shocking, just something to guard against.

[stopbush]

17. Because we made up god in the first place?

That would be my first - and only - guess.

[Silent3]

31. If a supposed God can't be judged by human standards...

...what sense is there in talking about such a God at all? What of value or meaning can any human being utter about such an unfathomable deity?

If humans aren't qualified to speak about whether "God's plan" makes sense or not, they aren't qualified to decide there's any plan at all. If they aren't qualified to decide that a God who allows all of the terrible things that happen in this world would be a cruel God, they also aren't qualified to decide that God is "loving" or "just" and that it all somehow just "works out" in ways we don't understand.

Why is these tired old arguments about applying human standards and limits of human comprehension only dragged out to counter negative things said about God, but not positive things?

[Wizard777]

15. How do you know evolution isn't a mechanism of God's creation?

The two theories of God an evolution are not incompatible. If you really study God's creation. You'll find change or evolution all over the place. It's every where. Hell even Stars evolve. I hate to say it but. The Torah and Bible are very bad sources for information on God and His creation. Considering that God's creation still exists. Why would you want to read out dated theories about it instead of studying it yourself? You would technically be engaged in Theology (the study of God.) Theology just like any other science is subject to revision. Hencefourth the procession of prophets bearing those revisions.

[stopbush]

16. As Laplace said when Napoleon asked him why god wasn't mentioned

in his theory of black holes, "Je n'avais pas besoin de cette hypothèse-là." ("I had no need of that hypothesis.").

God isn't needed to explain evolution, so why toss him into the theory? Seems a little gratuitous to me.

That said, IF evolution is god's mechanism, then all one can say is - lousy designer. Considering that 99% of species that have ever inhabited this Earth are extinct, one would have thought that any divine creator could have come up with something a little more efficient. If not efficient, maybe something less violent and painful than is life for ALL of the creatures that inhabit this orb. Face it, 75% of those sparrows that neither toil nor worry that Jesus says god provides for end up dying horrible deaths from disease and predators within a few short months of birth. Most creatures on this planet face a short life that ends with their being eaten alive by a predator.

All things bright and beautiful, as the hymn goes.

On edit: it also comes down to infinite regression. If you believe that everything needs a creator, ergo, god, then who/what created god? If you say that god didn't need a creator, then there's no reason to assume that the Big Bang needed a creator, either. If god could exist out of "nothing," then so could the Big Bang.

Ergo, god is irrelevant to the discussion of evolution.

[Wizard777]

18. The first thing God created was Himself. So even God has a creator.

In Alchemy*, don't laugh, The infinite regression is not really infinite. It's taken back to primal forces such as First Movement and even First Life. Very much in the same way the Big Bang is. Except the ancient Arab and Persian Alchemists were contemplating these primal forces thousands of years before the words big bang would ever be perceived or spoken.

* Alchemy from the Arabic Al Chemia or the art of change. The greedy foolishness of the Western Alchemists has sullied a great Eastern art and science. Sir Issac Newton and Nicolas Flammel were the only western Alchemists worth their weight in gold. ;)

[trotsky]

20. An appeal to pseudo-science to try and save a mythology.

That's some good stuff right there. :rofl:

[Wizard777]

21. You need to read up on the history of science. Alchemy is the grandfather of all modern sciences.

Even if you read some of the centuries old texts from when they quit calling it Alchemy and began calling it Physica or Physics. The body of work within was still essentially Alchemy. Even Historically famous scientist like Sir Issac Newton were Alchemists. The greater body of Newtons work was in Alchemy. Not Physics or Science. Alchemist have made contributions to science that still exist in labs to this very day. The alembic condensers algebra etc. etc. Alchemy is a noble Eastern Art who's integrity was destroyed by the Western fools that tried to solve it's mysteries.

[trotsky]

22. Oh yeah, I know.

I saw the first Harry Potter movie. It was a documentary, right?

(From Wikipedia: It is a popular belief that Alchemists made mundane contributions to the "chemical" industries of the day—ore testing and refining, metalworking, production of gunpowder, ink, dyes, paints, cosmetics, leather tanning, ceramics, glass manufacture, preparation of extracts, liquors, and so on (it seems that the preparation of aqua vitae, the "water of life", was a fairly popular "experiment" among European alchemists). In reality, although Alchemists contributed distillation to Western Europe, they did little for any known industry. Long before Alchemists appeared, goldsmiths knew how to tell what was good gold or fake, and industrial technology grew by the work of the artisans themselves, rather than any Alchemical helpers.)

[Wizard777]

26. Alchemy comes from the Middle East. Not Europe.

The European Alchemists, save Sir Issac Newton and Nicolas Flammel, Contributed less than nothing! Even if it was Bramagupta that introduced the world to nothing and the concept of less than one. But in the middle east Alchemy even extends to Astrophysics. Alchemy has little or nothing to do with converting lead to gold. That is just one of many changes in this universe that is possible. The European, ahem, Alchemists were obsessed with that very small part of Alchemy.

Btw, Not all that long ago Nicholas Flammel revealed himself to world in a big way. Except that he did it under the non de plume of Peter Lorre AKA Laszlo Lowenstein. Do you know how many cigars it takes to fill an urn? Bwahahahahahahahaha!

[trotsky]

27. You need to work on your reading comprehension.

That is all.

[Wizard777]

28. No you need to work on your understanding of Alchemy.

I'm not the one that doesn't understand it's intrinsical value or inner workings. We can leave it at that.

[trotsky]

29. Oh I think I understand alchemy's "intrinsical value" just fine.

You, however, can't even read a Wikipedia article correctly. And we can leave it at that.

[ironbark]

23. Al Chemia, Al gebra, and other guys called Al….

It’s great and interesting history but they wont "read up on it" because they don’t want to know.
They don’t want to know because of the links to Islam.
Can’t have pure science sullied by the taint of religion and all those guys called Al ;-)
Tried in the past to discuss the Muslim contribution to civilization here…it’s a no go zone and only evokes mockery and abuse.

Sad really, it’s human history…belongs to all of us.


“God and evolution are not incompatible”

Clearly…and the human understanding of God (religion) may well in itself be evolutionary ;-)

[Wizard777]

25. Al Chemia, Al Jibr, and Al Gore. Al Gore invented the internet and Algore Rhythms. LMAO

Very Good! You follow the spirit yet you do not get lost in the Metaphor and Allegory. Therefore you arrive at the new plateau. I think you would stand a chance of actually comprehending the Alchemical Mysteries. If you haven't already done that. ;-)

[Silent3]

30. Astrology is the origin of astronomy, but that doesn't mean...

...that astrology isn't bullshit. What does one thing being the "grandfather" or any other sort of forebear of another thing have to do with the value of the forebear?

What does Newton's work with alchemy prove? If Einstein did Tarot readings would that lend any real credibility to Tarot? Not really, unless, of course, there was just as much experimental evidence for Tarot working as there is for special and general relativity working.

[johnlucas]

19. Humans deal poorly with reality and finality

You shouldn't be surprised when people talk like this.
Life is hard. Life is hell to be honest.
This place will break down the strongest of people given enough time.

All religions & philosophies came out of humankind dealing with the fragility & chaos that permeates existence.
If saying "it's God's plan" or "it's God's will" makes them feel better than let them. If you know the truth, why worry about it?
If they suddenly reject those views & start living in mortal fear every moment of their lives who is that helping?

The honest TRUTH of it is that on our bodies are billions & trillions of tiny tiny tiny little bugs crawling around. If they weren't so small as to be invisible to the unaided human eye we'd be picking our skins off trying to get the bugs off of our body. The same little creepy crawlies exist in our stomachs & actually do the digesting of the food.

The universe is NUTS man! So let people have their peace of mind. The truth don't always set everyone free.
John Lucas

[ironbark]

24. Hey!...You might be covered in bugs but I'm.....

………………..oh dear…………covered in bugs.

Ever had a look at the parasites that can live in and around the eyelash?-


“The universe is NUTS man!”

Yup……and infinitely entertaining in its insanity ;-)


“So let people have their peace of mind.”

Yup….Right up to the point at which their “peace of mind” answer to everything is-
1/ Doorknocking black suited twins. 2/ Messing in the State school curriculum


“The truth don't always set everyone free.”

Nope……you need a lotta soap, scrubbing and insecticide for that ;-)

[Silent3]

32. If it's a matter of discussing such subject matter in a forum...

...like this, those who are fragile and clinging to illusions to get through the day had best learn to stay away. A forum like this makes no sense, and would be incredibly dull, if everyone was always walking on eggshells. Even your own post, read by someone who gains comfort from believing in things like "God's plan", would make that person realize that you doubt their beliefs too, and if you're nice to them about it it's only because you're humoring them like you might humor a small child's belief in Santa Claus.

Out in "real world" I certainly don't go out of my way to challenge everyone on every bit of superstitious nonsense that I hear. I do "live and let live" for the most part. In some cases, however -- like the woman haranguing a poor old guy for being $5 short on his rent -- her belief in "God's plan" goes from being a mere personal crutch to being an excuse for callousness. Belief in "God's plan" can be an excuse for ignoring and denying problems from global warming to health care. The unfortunate truth is that many people can suffer from the side effects of the superstitious crutches other people use as their own coping mechanisms.