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Is The Christian Creation Myth Similar To The Ones Of Other Religions?

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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 06:12 AM
Original message
Is The Christian Creation Myth Similar To The Ones Of Other Religions?
Did the major religions "borrow" creation myths from other religions and superstitions? Or is each one a unique creation?
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 06:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. Google is your friend
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 06:16 AM
Response to Original message
2. You have obviously not been touched by His Noodly Appendage...
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SeanQuinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 06:20 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'd assume so, yeah.
I'm still a believer in the more general ideas of creationism, but more of the details of evolution.

But it does seem like certain myths do build off older ones.
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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 06:28 AM
Response to Original message
4. Not really
In the Finnish epic Kalevala, the world emerged from a teal's egg floating in a vast ocean.

Many different societies have their own explanations for how the world came to be.
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flakey_foont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 06:29 AM
Response to Original message
5. Are there other creation myths
in which snakes talk? that one has always baffled me,
and de Lawd then made the snake to crawl on it's belly,,,,what did it do before? sit in a wheelchair? drive a Lexus? ...I wonder if the snake sounded like Tommy Chong....
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ixion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. as with any myth or fairytale
a certain suspension of disbelief is required. :evilgrin:

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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 06:35 AM
Response to Original message
6. Ye Olde Testament
has been stolen, borrowed, altered, copied and adopted from many ancient works, long before the Hebrew tribes created their version (probably about 4000 years before the Judas, Peter and Paul stuff over dinner. the Isis stories from Egypt are frequently compared to several stories in the Olde text.

The New Testament did not exist for many centuries after JC's birth. That is to say, for the first 500 years, there was a plethora (I ALWAYS wanted to use that word in a post) of gospels. One of the major competitors to the powers that were, before they succeeded in killing off those sects (literally) were the Gnostics.

Instead of having the final several gospels which the modern NT contains, there were upwards of 80 competing gospels, including those followed (and written) by the GNostics.

It wasn't until the Council of Nicea, and even the much later Council of Trent, that the bible began to take shape. Even then, it underwent major revisions over time. Suffice it to say, that if any Xtian from the so called biblical times (say, around the last or penultimate dinner or lunch or even breakfast) was handed a copy of James Revised, (in their language) they would most likely be scratching their heads and asking "Where the HELL did you come up with these ideas? This is all wet."
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. If "the" bible were literally true, then we'd all have a common story...
At least, up until The Tower of Babel, anyway.

In other words, we should all share a common history (including creation) up until that point.

At the very least, they should have much more in common than they do.

The only points after which our histories and myths should diverge would be after Noah's flood or The Tower of Babel. Everything before then should be in agreement-- if "the" bible was the literal truth.

And if I'm not mistaken, the Hebrew / Judeo / pre-christian tribes were not the first to invent a written language, either.

What could have happened?

Gawd wiped everyone's memory clean at some point and only the Judeo-Christian tribes go to keep their memory of "real" history?




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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Not to mention that the Hebrew method of telling the story
Edited on Wed Aug-03-05 07:38 AM by antifaschits
was initially by oral tradition.

Of course, any language or proto-language, without vowels, punctuation or telling you where one sentence ends and another begins can never be misconstrued or miscommunicated.

Reminds me of that joke. around 500 AD, the monk is asked why the trainees were being forced to make copies of copies?
"It is god's will."
How do we know it is accurate, he is asked.
"Because it . . . hmmm." He goes and checks the original text.

The next day, they find him with the original bible, as he rocks back and forth in the dimly lit corner, crying his eyes out.
What is it, Mr. Monk?
"The word was spelled C E L E B R A T E"
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arwalden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Oh Dear!!
:spray:
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beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. ROFLMFAO !!!
:rofl:
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 06:41 AM
Response to Original message
8. 45 Creation Myths from around the world
From http://www.makethemaccountable.com/

Babylonian Creation Myth
http://campus.northpark.edu/history/Classes/Sources/BabylonianCreation.html

African Creation Myth - Olori
http://www.tribalarts.com/feature/lawal/

Comparison of 4 African Creation Myths
http://dickinsg.intrasun.tcnj.edu/diaspora/jill.html

Korean & Japanese
http://www.aad.berkeley.edu/uga/osl/mcnair/94BerkeleyMcNairJournal/07_Yoo.html

Creation Myth comparisons
http://www.aad.berkeley.edu/uga/osl/mcnair/94BerkeleyMcNairJournal/07_Yoo.html

Navajo Creation Myth
http://www.earthbow.com/native/navajo/firstman.htm

Norse Creation Myth
http://www.meta-religion.com/World_Religions/Ancient_religions/Europe/norse_creation_myth.htm

Creation Myth from India
http://www.people.memphis.edu/~kenichls/1301HinduCreationCaste.html

Japanese Creation Myth
http://www.cybercomm.net/~grandpa/cretion2.html#japan

Comanche Creation Myth
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/ariel.htm#COMANCHE

Chinese Creation Myth
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/ariel.htm#CHINESE

Chelan Creation Myth
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/miranda.htm#CHELAN

Pima Creation Myth
http://www.earthbow.com/native/pima/creation.htm

Mayan Creation Myth
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/cordelia.htm

Miwok Creation Myth
http://www.earthbow.com/native/miwok/creation.htm

Scandinavian (Norse) Creation Myths
http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/creation.html

Salish Creation Myth
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/oberon.htm#SALISH

Australian Aboriginal Creation Myth
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/miranda.htm#AUS

Hopi Creation Myth
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/umbriel.htm#HOPI

Tahitian Creation Myth
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/ophelia.htm#TAHITI

Yokut Creation Myth
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/ophelia.htm#YOKUT

Comanche Creation Myth
http://www.earthbow.com/native/comanche/creation.htm

Egyptian Creation Myths
http://members.aol.com/egyptart/crea.html

African - Mande, Yoruba Creation Myths
http://www.fandm.edu/departments/Anthropology/Bastian/ANT269/cosmo.html

Several different short Creation Stories
http://www.waldorfhomeschoolers.com/creation.htm

Micmac Creation Myth
http://www.earthbow.com/native/micmac/creation.htm

Lakota Creation Myth
http://www.earthbow.com/native/lakota/creation.htm

Several Creation Stories: India, Romania, Mongol, etc..
http://wintersteel.homestead.com/files/Folklore/India_Creation_Myths.htm

Chinese Creation / Flood Myth
http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/chinaflood.html

Assyrian / Babylonian Creation Myth
http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Resources/Ane/enumaA.html

Maori Creation Myth
http://www.earth-spirit.info/stories/maori.html

Christian & Jewish Creation Myth (Genesis)
http://crab.rutgers.edu/~goertzel/genesis.htm

Aztec Creation Myth
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/miranda.htm#AZTEC

Digueno Creation Myth
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/ariel.htm#DIGUENO

Apache Creation Myth
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/miranda.htm#APACHE

African Creation Myths
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/miranda.htm#AFRICAN

Dakota Creation Myth
http://www.bluecloud.org/32.html

Hungarian Creation Myth
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/oberon.htm#HUNGARIAN

Iroquois Creation Myth
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/oberon.htm#IROQUOIS

Inuit Creation Myth
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/umbriel.htm#INU

Huron Creation Myth
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/umbriel.htm#HUR

Hawaiian Creation Myth
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/ariel.htm#HAW
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. great sites!
thanks for this. I need it for my research.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
9. The Hidden Book in the Bible
The Hidden Book in the Bible: Restored, Translated, and Introduced by Richard Elliott Friedman
by Richard E Friedman

ISBN: 0060630035


Synopses & Reviews
Publisher Comments:
Renowned biblical sleuth and scholar Richard Elliott Friedman, author of Who Wrote the Bible?, reveals for the first time his most startling and revolutionary discovery: embedded within the Bible is a continuous narrative that had been sliced apart by ancient editors who interlaced it with other stories, laws, and poetry. It is a singular work of genius, the core of the Bible. Across three millennia, this great work of prose comes back to us--pieced together as it was originally meant to be read--in a fresh and powerful translation.

In recent years, Harold Bloom's The Book of J and Friedman's own Who Wrote the Bible? have made the short work called J known to the public. But in The Hidden Book in the Bible Friedman presents his landmark discovery that "J is not a work. It is the beginning section of a work: a long, exquisitely connected prose composition full of artistry and power."

Using a creative blend of scholarship and detective work, Friedman has joined together this story from the dawn of written history, and what emerges is astonishing. Far from a primitive first attempt atr writing, it is an exciting and complex saga, a passionate work of love, deception, war, and redemption. Readers will experience the story that has not been read as a single continuous narrative for almost three millennia.

Friedman begins by leading the readers through the exciting story of his discovery of this hidden work. He marshals the evidence, showing how a unique use of language and themes--from the two cases of the famous "coat of many colors" to all nine references to Sheol (the place of the dead), and from incidents of sibling rivalry to sexual violation--recur in a connected way in certain parts of hte Bible but nowhere else. Friedman dramatically illustrates how these clues establish a singular author's voice guiding more of the Bible than was ever previously suspected.

This work, says Friedman, is a treasure. It became the core of the Bible and the beginning of prose literature. Readers now have the opportunity to see the first greatprose writer's full achievement: an epic work of the struggle between God and human, and between good and bad. The Hidden Book in the Bible will forever change the way we regard the Bible. "Exciting, provocative, ambitious yet reverent," says Donald Spoto, "Friedman's latest book is, as usual, grounded in impeccable scholarship."

More:
http://www.powells.com/biblio/16-0060630035-0


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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
10. Asimov's Guide to the Bible
Asimov's Guide to the Bible: Two Volumes in One; The Old and New Testaments
by Isaac Asimov

ISBN: 051734582x

Synopses & Reviews
Publisher Comments:
In Asimov's Guide to the Bible Isaac Asimov explores the historical, geographical, and biographical aspects of the events described in the Old and New Testaments. Asimov's attempts to illuminate the Bible's many obscure, mysterious passages prove absorbing reading for anyone interested in religion and history.

More:
http://www.powells.com/biblio/7-051734582x-0

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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 06:47 AM
Response to Original message
11. Who Wrote the Bible?
Who Wrote the Bible?
by Richard El Friedman
ISBN:0060630353

Synopses & Reviews
Publisher Comments:
"It is a strange fact that we have never known with certainty who produced the book that has played such a central role in our civilization," writes Friedman, a foremost Bible scholar. From this point he begins an investigation and analysis that reads as compellingly as a good detective story. Focusing on the central books of the Old Testament--Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy--he draws upon biblical and archaeological evidence to make a convincing argument for the identities of their authors. In the process he paints a vivid picture of the world of the Bible--its politics, history, and personalities. The result is a marvel of scholarship that sheds a new and enriching light on our understanding of the Bible as literature, history, and sacred text.

More:
http://www.powells.com/biblio/2-0060630353-1

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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-03-05 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
17. Other people have covered your question.
I want to add a bit of logical rambling.

Historical linguists have a problem: they try to reconstruct as far back in time as they can, and rely on texts. Texts sometimes show new words or changes.

Take Russian, first attested just before 1100 AD, Old Church Slavic (a related tongue from the Balkans) first attested in the 900s AD, and Polish, really only first attested in the 1400s. And Lithuanian, from the 1600s.

First, no one language is older than another: all those languages can be traced back to one language that existed c. 1000 BC. Languages may have developed unique traits at some point, but there's seldom anything like discontinuity. We define Lithuanian as having probably existed longer than Russian, but it's our definition that's up for grabs--nobody 'created' Lithuanian, at some point it was just perceived to be different, i.e., non-Slavic, by its speakers.

Second, there are words attested in Russian that *had* to have traveled to Russian through Polish, even though the Russian word's attested centuries before the Polish word, and there are words in Russian that *had* to come from Church Slavic, even though the word's nowhere attested in the OCS texts we have. Attestation sometimes means squat.

Third, there are words (like the ones for 'carrot', 'cabbage', or 'peach') that occur all over Slavic. It's tempting to say that the words all come from an older, Slavic, word. But, no, we know that the monasteries spread cabbage, and how peaches and carrots were introduced in the area: all the languages borrowed the same words, tweaking them slightly in the process. The word followed the thing.

Linguists distinguish between inherited forms and innovations, things held in common (whether originally in common, or shared innovations) and differences.

The same goes for myths. If a myth is attested in Babylon, 2500 BC, and in the W Semitic OT from 800 BC (let's say), which myth is older? We can't say. We know one attestation is older, but since the OT says that the patriarch came from Babylon (the province), they're basically coeval as far as we can tell. Or, at least, we can't say that they're not coeval (which is, really, a different critter).

We know that myths can spread. A particularly useful myth--useful for cultural purposes, or showing greater insight--can travel from tribe to tribe, assuming there's contact. Sometimes by force, through conquest, sometimes through perceived cultural prestige or superiority.

At the same time, oral myths can change quickly, or be preserved for a long time. Horses are an important part of some Native American folklores, but some of those tribes only had horses for a couple hundred years before their folklore was written down by Europeans. Another anthropologist went to West Africa to check on how some tales that were written down in the 1920s were preserved, and found many of them, including creation myths and history of the tribes, altered, sometimes profoundly. Then you have the Zuni in the American SW who can transmit tales unaltered, even when the language changes to the point that they no longer understand what some of the texts mean.

In other words: there are likely to be some commonalities that are shared innovations at a distance. But some shared commonalities are likely borrowings; still others some result from how tribes merged and split. And just because a tribe doesn't share a myth doesn't mean that it didn't at one time: tribes can alter and lose myths just as they can borrow them.

When you compare the Babylonian and Hebrew and Canaan myths, don't just focus on similarities: those we can probably assume existed, since (1) the Semitic tribes that wound up in running Babylon displaced the earlier Sumerian tribes, of uncertain linguistic heritage, and presumably moved in from west of Babylon--so we assume there should be shared Semitic traditions. Also (2) Babylon was an important cultural and military center , and innovations there should spread. More important are the differences, shared innovations between Hebrew and Canaanite, Canaanite and Babylonian traditions, or unique properties in any of the three.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-05-05 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
18. Sure. nt
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catbert836 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
19. It's not just the Christian creation myth
It's also the Jewish and the Islamic one.
My opinion: I don't know. It's possible that the ancient Semites who came up with Genesis burrowed some of their stories from other cultures, traditions, and religions. For examle, there's a legend in the Sumerian tale of Gilgamesh that is exactly like the tale of Noah and the Ark. So some of it is probaly original, and some not.
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Nihil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
20. Appropriate place for a cross-post ...
... from the current Toons thread ...


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