Christian Crees Tear Down Sweat Lodge

[foxfeet]

By Valerie Taliman February 3, 2011

When Redfern Mianscum built a sweat lodge in his Cree community last October, he was hoping it would bring about spiritual healing. Instead, it brought criticism and a controversial ban on Native spirituality and sweat lodges.

Mianscum agreed last fall to build a ‘mitutsaan,’ or sweat lodge, in the backyard of a friend, Lana Wapachee, so their families would have a place to pray in the traditions of Cree spiritual teachings. “The sweat lodge helped me turn away from alcohol and things that were hurting my family,” said Miascum, who returned to Cree traditions four years ago after his family suffered the loss of a baby. “I went back to the healing methods of our ancestors, and it turned me around for the better,” he said. “I wanted to share that with my family and others who believe this way.”

A few days after the sweat lodge was constructed, Christian members of this James Bay Cree community circulated a petition, signed by about 130 people, demanding that it be torn down. “We further request that no native spirituality be allowed in our community such as pow wows and spiritual practices, and not even allow any person to come into our community to bring these kind of practices to confuse our youth,” it stated. “Our concerns are for our youth, our children and grandchildren. We have raised them with the Word of God and we will continue to do so. They know the difference between the Word of God and spiritual practices.”

More at: http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2011/02/free-to-be-intolerant-christian-crees-tear-down-sweat-lodge/

[ixion]

1. Ah, Freedom of Religion... as long as it's the same religion everyone else uses

:eyes:

[xchrom]

2. it was interesting to read the piece linked at the bottom

of the page as well.

fascinating that traditional practices have become controversial within some first nations communities.

[glinda]

6. Used to be that both practices were sometimes intermingled but I have noticed

that starting about 10 years ago, a definite push by conservative Groups infiltrating Reservations for political purposes. Recently the "Pope" also clamped down on fusions of this nature.
There is no separation between political intent and Religious suppression of Native practices.

[xchrom]

7. it doesn't necessarily have to be about religion per se.

if you think about the conflict that springs up on some of the lakota reservations between the 'established' council members and groups like aim.

it's about power -- maybe what happened here is the established group felt threatened right away by the more traditional cree practices.

well people might vote differently if they aren;t all on the same page.

[glinda]

9. Don't get me started on AIM....

[jwirr]

8. I volunteered on several rez during the 70s and the two were definitely

intermingled. My guess is that the fundies have been busy on that rez. We attended pow wows, joined in the prayers in sweat lodges and in general just had discussions about religion in general. They asked about what we believed and we talked about how the two fit together. This is they way religions used to act in the old wild west. Not a good move.

[glinda]

10. Fundies and Repubs have been very actively recruiting on Reservations since

many Natives tended to vote Dem.
Given the still existing poverty and difficulties present on many of the Reservations, attacking their "Spirituality" which has given many the opportunity to ground themselves, is a more common practice this past years.

[Odin2005]

16. On a language message board I post at there is a Cherokee guy who is a creationist fundy missionary

Here is the message board:

http://www.unilang.org

Look for posts by the poster "Fomiko".

I am always tempted to point out the "White Man's religion" thing to him, but haven't yet.

[glinda]

17. Cherokee is the largest "Tribe" in the Country due to lax rules on

"who is" and being able to prove actual "percentage of". Many people claim Cherokee heritage with little or just hearsay.
Perhaps the creationist fundy missionary is a wannabe or fake to begin with and just trolling for converts.

[Odin2005]

18. He says that his grandmother was a native speaker of Cherokee

[provis99]

27. Christianity aint the "white man's religion" either.

Christianity destroyed all the European, white religions: what we now call paganism.

[Newest Reality]

3. That's terrible news in times like these!

Sweats can be a deep, spiritual experience under the right circumstances. In other words, they are probably frowned upon because it is a "high" that brings personal experiences that dogma cannot be substituted for.

All the books, words, phrases and prayers of revealed religions are merely reflections or guides. Without personal, subjective experiences and insights, well, you just have to take somebody's word for it, huh?

[grilled onions]

4. Why Deny Their Heritage?

Why can't many religions be more tolerate of traditions and beliefs of their ancestors or other religions? If their belief is so strong why does it take so little for them to feel threatened? A true believer can look temptation in the eye and can accept the beliefs of others. If their are all on the same path to another plane what does it matter what path they travel????

[JuniperLea]

5. That's very sad

Human beings have sought spirituality since day one. To deny those early attempts their place in history is very sad. I would think there would be great pride in that quest, regardless of where it led.

[Desertrose]

11. Hundreds of years later and we are still moving backwards.....

Where to start on such narrow minded insanity......

[Angry Dragon]

12. They know the difference between the Word of God and spiritual practices

I guess that gets rid of the holy ghost

[tblue37]

13. This made me laugh:

"They know the difference between the Word of God and spiritual practices.”

They just said that their version of the Word of God is NOT spiritual! (I would have to agree that they are probably right about that, too.)

[Jester Messiah]

14. In Canada, no less. What the hell, Canucks? [nt]

[Odin2005]

15. Anyone else find it sad that Natives are using White Man's Religion against each other?

[cleanhippie]

19. So much for Freedom of Religion, I guess, but I am sure this is not indicative of all christians.

right? Liberal christians oppose this, right? Liberal christians support a persons right to believe, or not believe, what they want, right?


Do I NEED to use a sarcasm smiley?

[struggle4progress]

20. It's impossible from this story to be sure what happened, since the story comes from only one side

he Indian country article refers to "Chief Louise Wapachee" but Canada's Indian and Northern Affairs website lists "Chief Sam R. Bosum" -- see http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/ai/scr/qc/aqc/prof/Ouje-eng.asp

Oujé-Bougoumou has a website, but the "Chief's Welcome" page is only "coming soon": http://www.ouje.ca/content/index.php

The community seems to have an activist bent, particularly in regard to reclaiming jurisdiction over its traditional territory. The town is planned as a sustainable development, with a common plant for household heat and hot water. The community is rather small, perhaps 600 people: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouj%C3%A9-Bougoumou,_Quebec

The Oujé-Bougoumou website suggests that tourism is contemplated as a source of economic activity. They got money last year from the Canadian government to build a cultural center:

Government of Canada invests in the Aanischaaukamikw Cultural Institute in Oujé-Bougoumou
http://www.dec-ced.gc.ca/eng/media-room/news-releases/2009/11/2227.html

All sorts of different things could be going on here, and I wouldn't assume from a single account that I knew the facts. It is, of course, possible that one merely has a proverbial small town intolerance. But it is also possible, for example, that the story has been badly misreported; perhaps what is really happening is that a small town, which hopes to become a tourist attraction, is enforcing something like community zoning laws, with the aim that tourists not come to find yards filled with rusting junk or ad hoc buildings or other visual distractions

[darkstar3]

21. Being unable to verify the story from other sources is one thing,

but your blatant speculation is pointless, not to mention beside the point. People have an opinion on the story as it stands, and until and unless you can provide CONCRETE contradictory facts, you need not comment beyond "I cannot verify this information."

(My point: If you're going to act like the final arbiter of facts with your Google-fu, you should stick to facts.)

[struggle4progress]

22. My first interest is to try to understand the context properly

As I said before, this might simply be an example of small-town intolerance. But it might be completely misleading to understand the town by comparing it to European-derived settlements: the notion of community and of the resolution of issues may not closely follow our private-property models. The community was relocated repeatedly in the 20th century as commercial interests expropriated territory for resource exploitation

History of relocations of the Ouje-Bougoumou Crees
http://www.provincequebec.com/first-nations/ouje-bougoumou/

These relocations fractured the community, but it finally won a fight for some territory and reparations which, beginning about 20 years ago, led to the current planned town. The community may still be in the process of trying to recover what it regards as a "traditional" way of life and "traditional" values after generations of disruptions. The town is based on a common Vision statement: the houses all share a common plant for hot water and winter heating (for example); and "traditional" notions of what can be done in the town may depend on community consensus.

Here's the sweat lodge resolution text:
http://www.scribd.com/Ouje-Bougoumou-Resolution/d/46988007

The resolution seems to support the story in the OP, more or less, but this is not entirely clear in context. One problem is that notions of community may not have precise Western equivalents, and community standards might effectively function rather like zoning laws, according to which what people are allowed to do in "their" yards depends somewhat on community acceptance.

The Ouje-Bougoumou council resolution refers to a community Vision statement of 24 August 2010, which the resolution asserts "did not include ... adopted traditional practices from other First Nations."

For some reason, the Ouje-Bougoumou council would cite a Grand Council of the Cree resolution on "Freedom of Religious & Spiritual Beliefs" when insisting someone not maintain a shamanic structure in the community; I can't find the referenced Grand Council of the Cree resolution on "Freedom of Religious & Spiritual Beliefs" -- the closest I get is this:

Draft 2010 AGA Resolutions
17-21—AUGUST 27, 2010 ...
RESOLUTION 2010-08
Subject: Freedom of Religious & Spiritual Beliefs
WHEREAS Freedom of Religion is recognized and protected by the Canadian Charter of Rights and freedoms and Quebec’s Charters of Human Rights and Freedom;
WHEREAS it is up to each individual to continue to freely practice their religious and spiritual beliefs within the Eeyou Istchee
BE IT RESOLVED:
THAT the delegates of the 36th AGA of the GCCEI and the 33rd CRA do hereby recognize and respect the attached resolution, submitted by the delegates of Whapmagoostui First Nation
PROPOSED BY: Chief Stanley George
SECONDED BY: Roger Sandy ...
http://www.nationnews.ca/index.php?option=com_zine&view=article&id=739:draft-2010-aga-resolutions-

The Ouje-Bougoumou council resolution suggests to me the GCC resolution is cited as support for enforced uniformity of practice in town, especially since there seems to be a church in town: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sbenoit/5370587597/in/set-72157625737244209/

But the GCC resolution could be serving some other purpose in the Ouje-Bougoumou council resolution, such as making clear that the man has a right to practice his own religion (even if the council will not recognize a right to build a non-traditional sweat lodge near a home in the community)

And here's a quote in English from a community member: “Go build it somewhere else, not at someone’s house. All this wouldn’t have happened if they’d built it across the lake." http://aptn.ca/pages/news/2011/01/17/crees-ban-sweat-lodges-fns-spirituality-from-community/

Here's a collection of interviews, that I can't understand:
Wednesday December 1, 2010
OJ split over sweatlodge debate
http://www.cbc.ca/winschgaoug/episodes/2010/12/01/oj-split-over-sweatlodge-debate/

The fact, that I can't understand what they're saying, does nothing to increase my confidence further in the accuracy of the story as translated for me, largely by people outside the community

I don't know any method by which one can understand matters like this, other than by asking questions, considering possibilities, and seeking further information. I suspect that many of the Ouje-Bougoumou Cree, if confronted by someone asking today why they had dismantled a sweat lodge in their community, might ask in return "Why are you so interested now? Where was your interest in us when we were repeatedly forced to relocate so our land could be taken from us?"

[darkstar3]

23. And you purposely missed my point.

[struggle4progress]

24. I've given you ten links. You've given none. Have a nice day.

:hi:

[darkstar3]

26. Oh I see, you spent too long in GD and think that more links = more authority.

The three-fold problem here, of course, is that:

1. There is no "context" under which the actions cited in the OP would be anything less than reprehensible. (In fact it's flabbergasting to see you take the "context" argument outside theological texts and try and apply it here.)
2. Your links provide little useful info to the topic at hand, as usual. You need to research the concept of breadth vs. depth.
3. Most importantly, blatant speculation is in no way validated by links.

[ZombieHorde]

25. So typical. nt

[_ed_]

28. Beautiful to see irratinoal beliefs supplant other irrational beliefs

I suppose Cree who convert to Scientology will be tearing down the Christian stuff one day.

[Vehl]

29. :(

It's truly sad to see native traditions being sidelined by the so called "natives" themselves.
Europe saw similar events nearly 2 millennial ago..so did parts of Asia...

the "one(my) truth only" religions have done irreparable damage to human civilization and culture as a whole. :(