If it weren't religion, it would be something else.

[cali]

Lots of people here blame religion for, well, a lot and no doubt it bears a fair share of responsibility for wars and violence, but religion is nothing but an outgrowth of human nature and if not religion, that aspect of human nature would project onto another screen.

[FiveGoodMen]

1. Something else with the force of...

"The creator and boss of the entire universe will torture you forever if you disagree"?

What might that be?


I agree that religion grows out of human nature, but so does fascism.

They both need to be stopped.

[Hugabear]

3. Kinda hard to trump the fear of eternal damnation

I'm sure there would be something else. But it likely wouldn't have the same weight as "if you don't do what i say, you're going to hell" and "those people over there are infidels, they must die"

[dmallind]

2. If not for rape it would be murder I guess, but that still makes rape bad.

The fact that human nature, in many or even most humans at least, requires comforting lies and a sense of belonging does not excuse any use of a system providing those things to drive exclusionary politics, judgmentalism, xenophobia, and oppression.

ANY "ism" that posits something more important than benefit to living humans in the real world is dangerous, ripe for exploitation, and frankly borderline insane - at the very least irrational.

[TBF]

4. Please define "outgrowth of human nature". nt

[BOG PERSON]

12. X

[snooper2]

5. I blame it on the phone cops

Damn phone cops around every corner these days

[Horse with no Name]

6. Jesus is just another drug

for those that "need" something in their lives to fill whatever void they have...whether they are recovering alcoholics, drug addicts, pedophiles, etc., Jesus does quite nicely and the addiction appeases other zealots in society and they are taken quickly and easily into their fold.

Now, I do acknowledge that there are TRUE Christians who do not use religion as a crutch/vice or as a weapon against others. They concentrate on the works, beliefs and teachings of Jesus and the apostles--but do so in help of humanity. Honestly, I MISS these Christians.

Just as in politics, the radicals are taking over the republican party--they are also taking over brand name Jesus. Some of these "followers" wouldn't recognize Jesus if he walked up beside them and hit them over the heads with their own Bibles.

[Mimosa]

7. 'Those Christians' are still around.

There are some very nice and diverse Christians here on D.U.. Most don't speak up. ;)

I have posted on boards where the right wing 'personal salvation I've got mine' Christians embarrass the very idea of Christianity. So I understand the antipathy.

[Horse with no Name]

11. I instantly think of Jimmy Carter when I think of "Good Christians"

I think of my Grandfather.

I know quite a few personally. Problem is...the others are getting so vociferous that they are drowning out the real ones.

It is sad.

[MellowOne]

23. I was going to say the same thing

about many on DU who don't speak up. Some have tried but are relentlessly and violently attacked for their beliefs.

As for the "personal salvation I've got mine Christians" many are well-meaning people who get over zealous. It's like a very excited person who discovers the cure for cancer and just wants to share and help others. But no one wants to listen.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

8. Oh, Sky Cake.............

.............why are you so delicious?

[Taverner]

9. Really. Do you think Communists would kill UN workers if an American burned 'Das Kapital'?

Or do you think Ayn Rand acolytes would react that way if "Atlas Shrugged" were burned

How about if someone burned a book by Lyndon LaRouche. I mean they're pretty crazy over there, but they would never go on a killing spree over it.

As Weinberg put it: With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

[riderinthestorm]

10. +1. nt

[Riftaxe]

13. How precious, do you think Stalin and Mao

needed the excuse of a book burning to slaughter millions of human beings?

Perhaps Communism was their religion...

[riderinthestorm]

14. No, they are classic examples of a "cult of personality"

The religion for their totalitarian states became the leader (Mao, Stalin, etc) so no other official religion was allowed to exist so the leaders could establish themselves as the state's "hero" akin to a cult. In their mind, transformational change couldn't occur without them at the head thus they erased ANY opposition towards that end.

It wasn't atheism that caused the shit within those countries under their regime - it was the megalomaniac cult mentality of Mao and Stalin combined with the power of the state.

But of course, this is common knowledge and has been hashed to death on the R/T board where I invite you to spend an hour or so reading up on it.

[Adsos Letter]

16. Would mao have had people killed for burning his little Red Book?

[riderinthestorm]

17. No (I looked it up) but its a supremely ironic question for a leader who burned

literally burned up most of China's cultural heritage (including books) in the Cultural Revolution.

[Adsos Letter]

18. That's interesting! I would have thought publicly burning the Chairman's musings

would have been cause for pretty severe punishment (especially if the burner advertised it).

Learn something new every day.

I do agree with Pascal: "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction."

[JoePhilly]

15. Shared Religion is a form of tribalism. Us versus Them.

Historically, the Us versus Them battle plays out based on resources.

A shared religion simply extends the reason for US to hate THEM. Our God wants us to kill THEM and increase their number of followers. Their God wants THEM to kill us and increase the number of followers.

This is why the far right is so angry about Islam in America. The far right wants to make everyone worship as they do.

[dimbear]

19. Blaming religion for atrocities is like blaming tribalism.

IOW spot on.

[skepticscott]

20. The fact that something else MIGHT have caused

violence and wars in no way absolves religion from the moral responsibility for ACTUALLY causing them. No more than you are absolved from moral responsibility for killing someone because if you hadn't, they would have died from something else anyway. Even if you kill someone who would have died the next day, you are still legally and morally guilty of murder.

[Iggo]

21. delete

hoo-boy!

i got an early start this weekend.

my bad...

[cleanhippie]

22. Yeah, but it IS religion, not something else. Now what do we do?