Does Christianity, Islam, Judaism require inferiority of women

[Green_Lantern]

Since it teaches the masculinity of God and the Bible and Koran both have passages restricting the role of women?

It's not just monotheists either. Even in polytheistic religions female goddesses have been turned into consorts of male gods.

Are there any organized religions that actually have goddesses that aren't just consorts of male gods?

[sinkingfeeling]

1. Hindus have a goddess. But all of the major world religions deprecate women to some degree.

[Green_Lantern]

3. Hinduism can be very anti-woman dependent on how fanatic it is..

nt

[JackintheGreen]

7. Maybe this is too simplistic a rendering

Hinduism in an incredibly intricate agglutination of religious practices spanning the subcontinent for two millenia. The Hindu goddesses are often paired off as consorts of male gods, but it isn't a easy as giving dominion to male over female. One of the most common images of Kali is as the consort of Siva, over whose supine body she stands. This is hardly male over female dominion from the OP. Then within local practice the mother goddess (Kali, Durga, Parvati, Mariamman, etc) is given various positionality in the male/female dichotomy. In Christianity, Marian dogma was at times persecuted (especially in Spain and parts of France) for giving such overwhelming primacy to Mary over Jesus. Generally speaking your comment might be correct, but there is so much more context to local practice as to make it an essentially useless generalization.

[patrice]

12. The word "superabundancy" is used in describing how the female aspects come into being, so

one might infer that the females are of the nature of "male" deities such as Brahma or Siva. That does not seem subjugated to me, but of the essence. I can't remember which of the Hindu creation myths it is, but the events described have a distinct hermaphroditic tone to them, IMO.

to me it all just points to the puny insufficiency of our conventional words to talk about this kind of stuff, hence The Vedas.

[JackintheGreen]

14. There are Cola temples in southern India

dedicated to the hermaphroditic aspect of divine manifestations. They may appear in the north, as well, but I cannot speak to them with certainty.

[roguevalley]

15. actually, God requires the exceptionality of men and women. All

religion requires is obedience. I don't confuse the two. I stand with God. Religion can stand by itself.

[ZombieHorde]

17. Not all religions require obedience; e.g., Thelema.

[patrice]

18. "exceptionality" I am not familiar with that word in this context; could you tell me more about it?

I have a few guesses and would like to see if I'm close.

[roguevalley]

26. given choice, the ability to do the right thing because it is right.

to feed the hungry because its right, etc. to me, you don't have to strive for unattainable perfection. you have to just try and do the very best you can in your life and leave the world better than it might have been before you were there. That in my opinion is all that God can ask from us.

[closeupready]

2. Some interpret their sacred writings otherwise, but I agree that in practice,

that is how women are ultimately treated in religions derived from the Old Testament.

[Green_Lantern]

4. I guess it depends on how literal the texts are taken...

nt

[qazplm]

5. well all major religions stem from ancient times

and in ancient times men and women thought for the most part women to be inferior.

So it would be surprising to see anything different in the religions that rose up from that.

I assume, for good or for ill, religions of the future like Scientology (believe it or not, it's on the path to becoming a major religion like Mormonism is) will be significantly less so.

[aquart]

10. And who taught you that, dear?

And why did you believe it without examining it for a shred of truth?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. Christian quotes about women.

"Most of these feminists are radical, frustrated lesbians, many of them, and man-haters, and failures in their relationships with men, and who have declared war on the male gender. The Biblical condemnation of feminism has to do with its radical philosophy and goals. That's the bottom line." (Jerry Falwell)

"Feminism was established to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society." (Rush Limbaugh, "The Way Things Ought to Be" (1994 edition)
"Nothing about contraception should be taught in schools. There is no question that it will encourage sexual activity." (Phyllis Schlafly, New York Times, 10/17/92)

"You can't get into negotiations with the feminists because you will lose. They will slit your throat. They have no sense of fair play or compromise." (Phyllis Schlafly, National Affairs Briefing, 8/92)

“Nature doth paint them further to be weak, frail, impatient, feeble and foolish; and experience hath declared them to be unconstant, variable, cruel, and lacking the spirit of counsel.” (John Knox, Scottish Presbyterian leader. From title of pamphlet The First Blast of the Trumpet Against the Monstrous Regiment of Women, 1558.

" feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians." (Fundraising letter from Pat Robertson that was an in-kind contribution to the Iowa Committee to Stop ERA, as reported in The Washington Post, August 23, 1993)

"I know this is painful for the ladies to hear, but if you get married, you have accepted the headship of a man, your husband. Christ is the head of the household and the husband is the head of the wife, and that's the way it is, period." (Federal News Service, Sept. 11, 1992, quoting a Robertson newsletter.)

"Why are so many marriages falling apart? Why is the divorce rate so high? ...Why is there such a tragedy in marriage?...Now the basic answer to the basic
"(Robertson) chastised women legislators who support no-fault divorce laws that he says encourage men to split. 'Any woman who votes for no-fault divorce is like a turkey voting for Thanksgiving,' Robertson said, paraphrasing a conservative commentator." (The State-Record, Columbia, SC,June 28, 1992)

"The Devil can so completely assume the human form, when he wants to deceive us, that we may well lie with what seems to be a woman, of real flesh and blood, and yet all the while 'tis only the Devil in the shape of a woman. 'Tis the same with women, who may think that a man is in bed with them, yet 'tis only the Devil; and...the result of this connection is oftentimes an imp of darkness, half mortal, half devil...." (Martin Luther)

"The key in terms of mental ability is chess. There's never been a woman Grand Master chess player. Once you get one, then I'll buy some of the feminism..." (Pat Robertson)

"All wickedness is but little to the wickedness of a woman." (Apocrypha. Ecclesiasticus 7:26)

"Women...have but small and narrow chests, and broad hips, to the end that they should remain at home, sit still, keep house, and bear and bring up children." (Martin Luther)

"To promote a woman to bear rule, superiority, dominion or empire, above any realm, nation, or city, is repugnant to nature; contumely to God, a thing most contrarious to his revealed will and approved ordinance, and finally it is the subversion of good order, of all equity and justice." (John Knox, Scottish Presbyterian leader. First Blast of the Trumpet Against the Monstrous Regiment of Women-pamphlet published 1558, the first year of Elizabeth I’s reign.

"Most of these feminists are radical, frustrated lesbians, many of them, and man-haters, and failures in their relationships with men, and who have declared war on the male gender. The Biblical condemnation of feminism has to do with its radical philosophy and goals. That's the bottom line." (Jerry Falwell)

[aquart]

11. Martin Luther needs to explain how a woman can keep house AND sit still.

But I'm sure no one ever asked him.

[LeftishBrit]

23. Not to mention bringing up children...

anyone who has to look after an active 2-year-old will have trouble spending much time sitting still.

[aquart]

8. I hardly know where to start.

I'm pretty sure The White Goddess is too complex. Got it. Robert Graves' Greek Myths. Tells you the myth. Tells you the source. Then tells you what the myth is really telling you. He also has a book with Raphael N. Patai on the book of Genesis.

Start there. Religion has been around as long as we have. The ones you just listed are extremely new on the timeline. They're all patriarchal. But there's good evidence that isn't how they started. Allah, for instance was Allat. That "t" on the end? That's the feminine ending.

The Hebrews had the devil of a time getting rid of their goddesses.

The Christians suppressed all Christian testaments giving women power in the early church. They had a LOT of power in the early church.

The Celtic hero Cucuchlain had to be born three times to finally get him a father. Check out who gives the arms and the name in Celtic myth. Naming is the power position. Why are the myths about tricks to get a name from a mother?

Ancient Egyptian poetry talks of going to the mother of a family to arrange marriages. Control of marriage is the power position.

So be careful of the versions of religious and political history you accept. Male supremacy was not the default position. It took bloody suppression and mass murder to get there.

Read Graves.

[patrice]

19. I did about 30 years ago, should probably return to it and yes it is too

complex because Graves was trying to outline the linguistic connections in Western European mythopoetic traditions, beginning with a hypothetical root Indo European mother tongue, up to the precursors of then contemporaneous British poetry, true poetry that is, for the purpose of illustrating the doxology of the White Goddess of pre-historic European culture. The tri-fold White Goddess precedes and succeeds man as his mother, lover, and undertaker and as the beginning and the end She is the Creator, not a male god . . . . .
or something like that.

[riderinthestorm]

9. Have you read Riane Eislers book, The Chalice and the Blade?

A very interesting examination from a feminist perspective of the transformation of goddess cultures into patriarchal, warrior, competitive cultures and how the religions of those times was also significantly altered to subjugate women.

Some flaws in the book but overall she does a great job looking at societies' evolution. I highly recommend it.

[aquart]

13. Or anything by Robert Eisler.

With particular attention to the presence of the milk pail in early Christian art. Ancient languages punned incessantly. And, like Shakespeare, they enjoyed multi-lingual puns. The Middle Eastern goddess Astarte can be punned as Ast Artet, place of milk. (She is most often depicted as offering her breasts which modern writers assume is meant erotically.) A milk pail is also a "place of milk."

[Sal316]

16. Simple answer....

No.

[patrice]

20. I never got that from Christianity. I understand how the institution has devolved to some

extent, but it's not in the theology or dogma, but then maybe that's just me.

I'm a '60s (fallen) Catholic and we were told early on that words like "he" and "him" are our words and to limit God with our words is blasphemy. The '60s and John XXIII and watching the Civil Rights Movement and Viet Nam War and then later Women's Liberation, caused a lot of us to question authority and not to accept the terms, such as the inferiority of women, that were dictated for our lives unless we CHOSE to. So, though our religious institutions made women secondary, there were a bunch of us, at least in the American church, who didn't buy it.

It's a little known fact that when an order of religious women are granted a charter to function as a sisterhood, that CHARTER directs their lives, not the papacy and there has even been some flap about this in recent years, when Pope Benedict sent out a survey to all of the sisterhoods, requiring certain information from them, and a whole bunch of them flat out said, "No. You want to know anything about us? Read our charter." This was written up in a few articles in The National Catholic Reporter.

[darkstar3]

21. Such a wonderful explanation...

:eyes:

[Sal316]

27. Gee, such an insightful response.

Question was "Does... require inferiority of women?"

The simple, and correct, answer is no.

Do people use it to subjugate women? Yes.

...but that wasn't the question, was it?

[Deep13]

31. You must be reading some other Bible or Christian history. nt

[dimbear]

22. In the Gospel of Thomas, Jesus offers a wondrous solution to this.

The apostles put a nasty look on Mary Magdalene, and Jesus offers to turn her into a man.

That should make everybody happy.

[houstonintc]

24. Again, it's a matter of perspective...

For one the realities of life during much of human history have not afforded women great deals of liberties, especially in the age before the idea of human liberties.

The need for lots of children (Due to high infant mortality and competition for resources) and just the oddities of human culture probably would lead to women having certain roles and men having other roles. Inferiority is very much a matter of perspective under this view. Many religions were not flattering or kind about their opinions of human nature in general and thus the presumed nature of women was seen as bad.

As for Goddesses, no there really hasn't ever been some historical time period of some supreme "Earth Mother" deity... in spite of what some theorists claim about stone age Europe and beyond.

[MrMickeysMom]

25. You asked... I respond...

YES

[Pterodactyl]

28. My Christian Church teaches that men and women are equal.

They have different roles and characteristics, but all are equal and all deserve respect.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

29. Buddhism.

There is Kwan Yin, the Bodhisatva of Compassion, or Goddess of Mercy. She stands alone.
She embodies the goal of Mahayana Buddhism, to become enlightened, a bodhisattva, and to stay on earth to help other beings attaini enlightenment.

Also there are the Taras of Tibetan/Chinese Buddhism. White Tara, Red Tara and Green Tara.

[Deep13]

30. Yup.

They assume it is true and they require it. They go so far as to usurp the natural creative power of women and vest it in a masculine god.

[sakabatou]

32. Depends on the denomination.

[Meshuga]

33. In Judaism, god is neither male nor female

Hebrew is not gender neutral so (in Hebrew) god is as male as a book (the word "sefer" is masculine). However, "shekhinah" is an example of god being mentioned/described in feminine terms in Rabbinic literature.